Carl's Ambient Light Rejecting? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 54Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 294 Old 01-11-2016, 05:52 PM
Member
 
diytheaterguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Light controlled room

Hello. How does this product perform in a light controlled room? Are whites true whites or dulled to a shade of grey?

I currently am shooting a Panasonic AE4000U on a painted screen which is a light mix of grey. Just based on the product pictures, I'm concerned this product might be too dark?

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks much!
diytheaterguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 294 Old 01-11-2016, 06:02 PM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 21,657
Mentioned: 214 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3466 Post(s)
Liked: 1622
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
It will be a darker image with that 'ol AE4000, and also yes...the whites will take a hit, probably more from sheer attenuation.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
MississippiMan is offline  
post #63 of 294 Old 01-11-2016, 06:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by diytheaterguy View Post
Hello. How does this product perform in a light controlled room? Are whites true whites or dulled to a shade of grey?

I currently am shooting a Panasonic AE4000U on a painted screen which is a light mix of grey. Just based on the product pictures, I'm concerned this product might be too dark?

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks much!
Do you happen to remember what shade of grey you're using? Usually by the time you recognize a color as light-grey its gain can easily be as low as 0.7 or lower..which IS dimmer than the Carl's ALR screen can be if you're mounted right for it. It's described and pictured as being brighter than Carl's light-grey but dimmer than their bright-white..so it might be surprisingly close to your light-grey while being able to fight reflections and sideways incoming light in a less controlled room.

How dark-colored and directionally-lit your room is will determine how much/little help an ALR screen will be able to give.

There are some side-by-side comparison pictures showing the ALR material next to both the white and the light-grey either earlier in this very thread (post number 52) that might give you a better idea.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 01-11-2016 at 06:33 PM.
Ftoast is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 294 Old 01-13-2016, 02:34 PM
Member
 
diytheaterguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Thanks for your input, everyone! Since I live close to Carl's Place, I drove to their world headquarters today and checked out all of their products before deciding to purchase Carl's Ambient Light Rejecting material. Being able to demo each product before deciding was a huge help. Joe spent plenty of time with me and answered all of my questions without hesitation. I got a tour of the facility as well. I am happy to see they are successful in their home theater screen products offerings!

I can't wait to upgrade my screen and see how this performs in my theater!

Pics to follow...
diytheaterguy is offline  
post #65 of 294 Old 01-14-2016, 12:58 AM
Senior Member
 
mishari84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by diytheaterguy View Post
Thanks for your input, everyone! Since I live close to Carl's Place, I drove to their world headquarters today and checked out all of their products before deciding to purchase Carl's Ambient Light Rejecting material. Being able to demo each product before deciding was a huge help. Joe spent plenty of time with me and answered all of my questions without hesitation. I got a tour of the facility as well. I am happy to see they are successful in their home theater screen products offerings!

I can't wait to upgrade my screen and see how this performs in my theater!

Pics to follow...
Did he say the material is angular reflective and you should mount the projector to ceiling? I want to buy this material but my projector in on the table
mishari84 is offline  
post #66 of 294 Old 01-15-2016, 05:58 AM
Member
 
diytheaterguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I completed stretching the ALR over a frame and hung it up. Fired up the AE4000u and I was completely blown away! A stunning improvement from my previous screen, which was a painted substrate of Silver Fire. No concerns of dim image, vastly improved contrast and color vividness. It truly has to be seen to understand.

Working today, but I'll be calibrating the projector and snapping pics along the way for you over the next couple of days. Note, my above observations were with the projector unaltered in its settings.

My projector is ceiling mounted.
diytheaterguy is offline  
post #67 of 294 Old 01-15-2016, 06:05 AM
Member
 
diytheaterguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I'd suggest calling them direct for technical information. Joe was great to work with. I can say from my observations that off axis viewing was excellent! Also, when I demoed the product at their facility, we fired a projector from basically a tabletop and the image was just as spectacular.

Hope that helps!
mishari84 likes this.
diytheaterguy is offline  
post #68 of 294 Old 01-15-2016, 12:14 PM
Member
 
impulse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Green Bay WI
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by mishari84 View Post
Did he say the material is angular reflective and you should mount the projector to ceiling? I want to buy this material but my projector in on the table
The ideal position for the projector would be half the height of the screen. When I had my Benq projecting on it from a coffee table the image got brighter when I stood up. However it was not a deal breaker. This material also hot spots, again not a deal breaker. It is very moderate. But these are trade-offs you have to be willing to make with an ALR screen. It is no different on a $5000 black diamond screen.

That being said I don't notice the same thing with my Epson which has a longer throw distance on the same coffee table. I think a longer throw will be more important with this material.
Taffy Lewis and mishari84 like this.
impulse is offline  
post #69 of 294 Old 01-20-2016, 11:57 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Big thanks to everyone, I really like this screen from the pics you guys have taken! I am on the fence as to a flexigray screen, a painted screen, or this one - but I would prefer a little less gain if possible. The projector I ordered puts out a minimum of 1500 lumens and can go as high as 3000 lumens with decent color or a max of 4000 lumens, so it should have plenty of power with a 130-135" screen. I can always cancel the order and buy a less powerful projector (like the Benq ht2050) but I figure the 4000 lumen max output might come in handy for 3d on a 130"+ screen.


I wonder if there is some way to coat this alr screen with some sort of translucent paint to reduce the gain a bit and perhaps help with some of the hotspotting and brightness inconsistencies but at the same time not interfere too much with it's directional light reflecting qualities. I will be kind of stuck where I can put the projector (ceiling mount with no lens shift and somewhat short throw of 12.5' for a 135" screen), however I assume the screen can be tilted down a bit and the projector lowered and tilted up a bit to compensate until the screen is at the optimum angle for reflected light to the seating/viewing area.

After looking at your pics I am really excited about getting my first projector. I was even considering building a shadow box around my screen but your results look quite good without it.
Hypermotard is offline  
post #70 of 294 Old 01-20-2016, 06:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 7,942
Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3582 Post(s)
Liked: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypermotard View Post
... The projector I ordered puts out a minimum of 1500 lumens and can go as high as 3000 lumens with decent color or a max of 4000 lumens, so it should have plenty of power with a 130-135" screen. ...
You can't just make a statement like that without naming the projector model. Many people would like to know what projector produces decent color at 3,000 lumens, which would include a definition of "decent."
Dave in Green is offline  
post #71 of 294 Old 01-20-2016, 09:33 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
You can't just make a statement like that without naming the projector model. Many people would like to know what projector produces decent color at 3,000 lumens, which would include a definition of "decent."
Sorry. It is not the greatest projector - Viewsonic PJD7822DHL. It is a lower tier 1080p projector but it is seriously bright and lag times are supposedly not bad.! It maxes out at 4000 lumens which was measured by projector reviews, 3000 lumens calibrated with good color, 2000 lumens best color, and it puts out 1500 lumens on it's dimmest setting (eco movie). It puts out some serious power for a cheap projector, but the 2x color wheel is an issue for some people.
Hypermotard is offline  
post #72 of 294 Old 01-20-2016, 10:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
It pairs a 260watt lamp with a big white segment on the colorwheel.
Its white peak can be huge but the color-brightness will be around 700lumens which likewise means an accurate calibration will take it down to about 700lumens.
The most accurate preset still leaves a big boost to whites over colors.
Not saying you won't like it, it might still look really nice..just don't expect the full brightness they're claiming. It'll be bright, but not ridiculous-bright at 135".

The Carl's ALR material has so far been said and shown to be quite a ways lower in gain than its manufacturers claim and it'll likely not be overly bright for any projector at 130"-135"...the brightness should be about perfect.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #73 of 294 Old 01-20-2016, 10:55 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
It pairs a 260watt lamp with a big white segment on the colorwheel.
Its white peak can be huge but the color-brightness will be around 700lumens which likewise means an accurate calibration will take it down to about 700lumens.
The most accurate preset still leaves a big boost to whites over colors.
Not saying you won't like it, it might still look really nice..just don't expect the full brightness they're claiming. It'll be bright, but not ridiculous-bright at 135".

The Carl's ALR material has so far been said and shown to be quite a ways lower in gain than its manufacturers claim and it'll likely not be overly bright for any projector at 130"-135"...the brightness should be about perfect.
Maybe I would be better off canceling the Viewsonic (backordered) and going with the Benq HT2050 or the Epson 3000. I really only ordered it because it was on sale dirt cheap ($479) and it gets a somewhat decent review from Projectorreviews (aside from more susceptible to rainbows) and can throw 140" in under 12'. Maybe I misunderstood but I was under the impression that Projectorreviews calibrated it to put out equal color and white and then measured it at 1993 lumens. I figured that would be enough for normal use, and if I have a lot of light in the room or if I want to watch 135" 3d I can crank it up and deal with less color. But if you say it is only 700 I trust you more than I trust them, there is a lot of BS being thrown around in the projector market!!! They should be sued for some of their outrageous contrast ratio claims!

As for the alr screen, my concern stems from the few reviews of it so far. It seems that the shorter throw pjs are having issues and the longer throws not so much. My throw is worse than all of them, the most I can throw is a little over 12'. But I have been reading your screen threads, and if I have to paint a screen I have been contemplating using 2 sheets of drywall taped and jointed smooth and then painted. I have stucco and cannot smooth over it as that would create a major headache if I ever need to undo it.
Hypermotard is offline  
post #74 of 294 Old 01-21-2016, 12:04 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
The earlier Benq example using it at the closest throw was a great thing to see..so your close throw might work better than expected with the Carl's ALR material.
The Benq was used around the same 1.2:1 throw-ratio you'll be at.

The ProjectorReviews calibration usually cranks up the white segment in projectors that have them and then tries to balance skin-tones and whites as much as possible while kind-of ignoring color/white-balance. This approach can look terrible for brightly colored content like animated stuff or games, but a lot of live-action content is more forgiving about it.

A 135" screen around 1.0gain only needs about 770/1100lumens (eco/full-lamp) to stay decently bright for 2D content..so the Viewsonic can likely keep up pretty well in its most accurate presets.

I favor the Benq w1070/1075/2050, but some folks prefer brighter 3D and the Benq price tends to be a good bit higher than the deal you got.

As long as a return is possible, I'd still suggest checking out the Viewsonic to see how you like it personally.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #75 of 294 Old 01-21-2016, 01:07 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Thank you, I appreciate your help. My 1st choice was the Benq 2050 and it can also throw a 140" screen too. I will watch for a sale on something better since the viewsonic probably won't ship for a few weeks and amazon has a good return policy. I don't want to spend too much now because I really want to upgrade to 4k as soon as the technology becomes affordable ($1500 +/-).
Hypermotard is offline  
post #76 of 294 Old 01-21-2016, 09:03 AM
Member
 
impulse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Green Bay WI
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypermotard View Post
Thank you, I appreciate your help. My 1st choice was the Benq 2050 and it can also throw a 140" screen too. I will watch for a sale on something better since the viewsonic probably won't ship for a few weeks and amazon has a good return policy. I don't want to spend too much now because I really want to upgrade to 4k as soon as the technology becomes affordable ($1500 +/-).
The best scenario for this material is a long throw shallow angle. Which I tested with my HC3500. It looked better shelf mounted than on the coffee table.

However I want to be clear. Evan with the HT2050 on the coffee table you are still taken advantage of the ALR over the flexigray to a great extent and the hotspotting and viewing cone are still well within exceptable tolerances.
impulse is offline  
post #77 of 294 Old 01-21-2016, 12:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 7,942
Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3582 Post(s)
Liked: 2772
Here's what ProjectorCentral.com actually says about PJD7822HDL brightness:
Quote:
Light output. The PJD7822HDL claims a maximum output of 3200 ANSI lumens. Our test unit measured 3024 lumens in its brightest mode, which is more or less dead-on. The aptly-named Bright mode sacrifices a lot of contrast and color saturation, but delivers a screaming-bright image for those times when you need every lumen and don't much care about the rest of the picture.

On the other end of the spectrum is Movie, at 1034 lumens. Movie mode has the best color accuracy, saturation, color light output, and contrast of any preset image mode on the PJD7822HDL, so it's the obvious choice for movies, photography, and any other content where color accuracy is important.

Between the two extremes are a variety of modes, filling the gap such that there's always a mode with the light output you're looking for. PC mode (1878 lumens) is a good choice for computer gaming or when using the projector as a computer monitor. Dynamic PC (2357 lumens) and Dynamic Movie (1467 lumens) offer brighter, punchier versions of their namesakes for use in high ambient light conditions. Viewmatch (1728 lumens) offers a compromise between color accuracy and brightness, though it does err on the side of brightness.

With Movie mode producing over 1,000 lumens, some folks are going to need a way to turn down the brightness. Eco lamp mode reduces output by 22%, knocking Movie mode down to 812 lumens. There's also DynamicEco, activated from the remote, which adjusts image brightness according to the content on screen. DynamicEco can reduce light output by up to 70% while also extending lamp life. However, it can sometimes respond more slowly than the content on screen, especially in the case of fast cuts, so some users may not enjoy the effect and prefer to leave it off.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #78 of 294 Old 01-21-2016, 02:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Here's what ProjectorCentral.com actually says about PJD7822HDL brightness:
Thank you, I appreciate your help. I saw that review last night too. Projectorreviews says 4000 at full wide angle, and 2000 at movie and 1500 movie eco. They also claim 4000 at wide angle but then claim it drops to 3600 at full zoom (10% loss when zoomed). Unless someone is lying (which does not make sense because they both say it is a really great value) I assume pr rated 4000 at wide, and pc rated it 3200 at zoom, and each one has a 5% margin of error (actually 3800 wide, 3400 zoom). Perhaps Pc tested a used one with an older bulb too, I believe I read a 20% reduction in brightness is common after 1000 hours or so. PR has a more in-depth review, and they claim movie eco mode (the lowest mode possible" is "too bright for a 100" screen. That does not sound like 800 lumens. They also claim it does 100" 3d effortlessly, which also requires a light cannon.I will have to hunt for some more reviews, thankfully it probably won't ship for a couple of weeks. This is the problem with the projector market Manufacturer claims and reviews are all over the place!
Hypermotard is offline  
post #79 of 294 Old 01-21-2016, 02:43 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by impulse View Post
The best scenario for this material is a long throw shallow angle. Which I tested with my HC3500. It looked better shelf mounted than on the coffee table.

However I want to be clear. Evan with the HT2050 on the coffee table you are still taken advantage of the ALR over the flexigray to a great extent and the hotspotting and viewing cone are still well within exceptable tolerances.
Thank you. I believe I understand how alr works, please correct me if I am wrong. The light comes out of the pj, hits the screen on an angle, and then comes off the screen on a reflected/mirrored angle (much like the way a mirror reflects) toward the viewer. The best scenario I believe would be mount the pj high up on ceiling so light travels just slightly downward so the light will be reflected down a bit toward the viewer. Perhaps temporarily mounting a mirror on the middle of the screen and lining it up so the reflection of the lens is in view would be a good idea.I also assume that small changes in vertical tilt of the screen will also affect brightness at the viewing position.

I have no choice with throw, I can throw a max of 12.5' from the ceiling to project on a 130-140" screen.
Hypermotard is offline  
post #80 of 294 Old 01-21-2016, 02:54 PM
Member
 
impulse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Green Bay WI
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypermotard View Post
Thank you. I believe I understand how alr works, please correct me if I am wrong. The light comes out of the pj, hits the screen on an angle, and then comes off the screen on a reflected/mirrored angle (much like the way a mirror reflects) toward the viewer. The best scenario I believe would be mount the pj high up on ceiling so light travels just slightly downward so the light will be reflected down a bit toward the viewer. Perhaps temporarily mounting a mirror on the middle of the screen and lining it up so the reflection of the lens is in view would be a good idea.I also assume that small changes in vertical tilt of the screen will also affect brightness at the viewing position.

I have no choice with throw, I can throw a max of 12.5' from the ceiling to project on a 130-140" screen.
You got it. The only other thing I would add is that the projector doesn't necessarily need to be high. It all depends on the angle and throw distance compared to your eyes angle and distance from the screen. The mirror trick is a great idea, just make sure the mirror is small enough so you can find the sweet spot.

Last edited by impulse; 01-21-2016 at 03:02 PM.
impulse is offline  
post #81 of 294 Old 01-21-2016, 03:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by impulse View Post
You got it. The only other thing I would add is that the projector doesn't necessarily need to be high. It all depends on the angle and throw distance compared to your eyes angle and distance from the screen. The mirror trick is a great idea, just make sure the mirror is small enough so you can find the sweet spot.
Thanks. I guess this also causes the problem with uniformity. The pj is throwing the top, bottom, left, and right portions of the screen from the same position (lens), so the reflected angles for the top, bottom, left, and right of the screen will be far apart. This may also be why a long throw works better as the angles are not as wide and thus the returning reflected light is also not as wide. As the angled projection beam gets tighter the brighter and more uniform the image should become - I guess...

I wonder if when you look at the screen from the right side will the right and center be brightest and the left appear dimmer? And then when viewing from the left side the opposite will be true. I guess this is a good way to prove that the technology behind the screen is working and to what extent.

Last edited by Hypermotard; 01-21-2016 at 03:35 PM.
Hypermotard is offline  
post #82 of 294 Old 01-21-2016, 04:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypermotard View Post
Thanks. I guess this also causes the problem with uniformity. The pj is throwing the top, bottom, left, and right portions of the screen from the same position (lens), so the reflected angles for the top, bottom, left, and right of the screen will be far apart. This may also be why a long throw works better as the angles are not as wide and thus the returning reflected light is also not as wide. As the angled projection beam gets tighter the brighter and more uniform the image should become - I guess...

I wonder if when you look at the screen from the right side will the right and center be brightest and the left appear dimmer? And then when viewing from the left side the opposite will be true. I guess this is a good way to prove that the technology behind the screen is working and to what extent.
Yes and yes. You nailed it right on the head.
Usually the screens are made so the changes in brightness are subtle and gradual enough that your eyes mostly or even completely ignore the changes, but the more aggressive screens generally get less and less subtle.

This is exactly why the more aggressive screens generally demand a 1.5:1 throw-ratio or greater and why I was so happy to hear the earlier positive comments about this Carl's ALR with the Benq around 1.2:1 throw.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #83 of 294 Old 01-21-2016, 04:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Yes and yes. You nailed it right on the head.
Usually the screens are made so the changes in brightness are subtle and gradual enough that your eyes mostly or even completely ignore the changes, but the more aggressive screens generally get less and less subtle.

This is exactly why the more aggressive screens generally demand a 1.5:1 throw-ratio or greater and why I was so happy to hear the earlier positive comments about this Carl's ALR with the Benq around 1.2:1 throw.
Thank you. Besides a longer throw I guess it would also be better to use a projector with better uniformity as alr technology screens will probably amplify any side or top/bottom uniformity problems. Back to the projector reviews...

I wonder if they make filters that reduce brightness only in the center of the image?
Hypermotard is offline  
post #84 of 294 Old 01-21-2016, 06:56 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Some calculations - I analyzed my proposed 130" screen thrown 12.5' and ceiling mounted for reflection angle (eye height 44" above floor, bottom of screen 33" above floor (my needs due to cabinets).
Viewsonic PJD7822 = eyes 19" above optimal viewing angle for reflected light from center of screen
Benq HT2050 = eyes 17" above optimal viewing angle
Epson 2040 = eyes 8" above optimal viewing angle

The Epson on paper looks like it would work better with the reflection angle because it has a negative throw offset - unlike the others. It seems, at least theoretically, that a projector with a negative throw offset or a projector with lens shift ability should work better with alr tech screens.

Now if only the Viewsonic has brightness uniformity issues making it brighter on the bottom and dimmer on the top it could be perfect.
Hypermotard is offline  
post #85 of 294 Old 01-21-2016, 11:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypermotard View Post
Some calculations - I analyzed my proposed 130" screen thrown 12.5' and ceiling mounted for reflection angle (eye height 44" above floor, bottom of screen 33" above floor (my needs due to cabinets).
Viewsonic PJD7822 = eyes 19" above optimal viewing angle for reflected light from center of screen
Benq HT2050 = eyes 17" above optimal viewing angle
Epson 2040 = eyes 8" above optimal viewing angle

The Epson on paper looks like it would work better with the reflection angle because it has a negative throw offset - unlike the others. It seems, at least theoretically, that a projector with a negative throw offset or a projector with lens shift ability should work better with alr tech screens.

Now if only the Viewsonic has brightness uniformity issues making it brighter on the bottom and dimmer on the top it could be perfect.
I'm not sure if you also put this into your angle calculation, but sitting a little closer than 12.5ft back (closer than the projector) will put you at a more ideal angle as well.
If you sit directly under the projector your ideal height would a about equal to the projectors offset height swapped (projector 8" above image and you 8" below the image) but if you sit farther back than the projector your ideal spot becomes lower following the beams reflected downward angle and if you sit closer than the projector your ideal spot becomes higher.


Also, because the brightest point of an image is often the sky or upper half, a few inches of non-centered brightness often looks better near the top than nearer the bottom..so you'll be in decent shape there at least and MUCH more ideal than anyone table-mounting.

About how far back will your eyes be from the screen?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #86 of 294 Old 01-22-2016, 07:16 AM
Member
 
diytheaterguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Screen construction pics

As promised, here are some pics of my build with the ALR.

I simply screwed in three boards to the wall with a 45 degree angle cut into the top of each to receive the other half of the French Cleat that is integrated into the screen frame. The frame is constructed as pictured and is very strong for the stretching of the ALR material. Pocket hole screws were used and glue at every joint. The rear stand-off to accept the LEDs was glued and pin nailed to the 1x4s used for the perimeter of the main frame. Corners of this were radiused to ease the bend of the LED tape.

I am very happy with results!

Next pics will be of the screen in action. Post requests if needed.

As a result of this fantastic screen, I now have a 115" diagonal 16:9 painted plastic substrate available for someone in the Madison, WI area!

I highly recommend this screen material!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1699.jpg
Views:	748
Size:	149.4 KB
ID:	1201082   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1696.jpg
Views:	849
Size:	157.2 KB
ID:	1201090   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1697.jpg
Views:	724
Size:	118.0 KB
ID:	1201098   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1698.jpg
Views:	720
Size:	84.6 KB
ID:	1201106   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1701.jpg
Views:	732
Size:	98.1 KB
ID:	1201114  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1702.jpg
Views:	756
Size:	144.1 KB
ID:	1201122   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1700.jpg
Views:	723
Size:	171.4 KB
ID:	1201130  
mishari84 likes this.
diytheaterguy is offline  
post #87 of 294 Old 01-22-2016, 09:05 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I'm not sure if you also put this into your angle calculation, but sitting a little closer than 12.5ft back (closer than the projector) will put you at a more ideal angle as well.
If you sit directly under the projector your ideal height would a about equal to the projectors offset height swapped (projector 8" above image and you 8" below the image) but if you sit farther back than the projector your ideal spot becomes lower following the beams reflected downward angle and if you sit closer than the projector your ideal spot becomes higher.


Also, because the brightest point of an image is often the sky or upper half, a few inches of non-centered brightness often looks better near the top than nearer the bottom..so you'll be in decent shape there at least and MUCH more ideal than anyone table-mounting.

About how far back will your eyes be from the screen?
Good point about the top being brighter, I guess there is no calculation precise enough for optimal viewing angle without using trial and error. Also my eyes will be just about directly under the lens and the screen is too large to move forward more than maybe a foot, however you are correct that moving forward will bring the optimal viewing point closer to the center of the screen - another win for long throws. I think lens shift would be extremely helpful with this alr screen technology, especially with a somewhat shorter throw, as it will allow one to *tune* the reflected image to work best with their media and environment. It is ironic because up until now I saw lens shift as useless except for perhaps ease of setup, however when used with an alr screen it appears to be much more beneficial.
Hypermotard is offline  
post #88 of 294 Old 01-22-2016, 09:14 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by diytheaterguy View Post
As promised, here are some pics of my build with the ALR.
It looks nice dude! I have 2 questions as I am new to all this. Do your cross braces actually touch the screen material?Also is the frame painted underneath where it touches the screen material? I read somewhere (on painted screens I believe) that it is recommended to not let the cross bracing touch the screen surface, but I am unsure if that matters when using this screen material. Thank you.
Hypermotard is offline  
post #89 of 294 Old 01-22-2016, 09:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by diytheaterguy View Post
Next pics will be of the screen in action. Post requests if needed.

As a result of this fantastic screen, I now have a 115" diagonal 16:9 painted plastic substrate available for someone in the Madison, WI area!
Is there any safe way for you to prop up the old painted screen next to or partly in front of the new Carl's ALR screen to get some comparison shots with them both in the same pictures at the same time?

I'd love a lights-on projector off picture to show how their darkness compares and a lights-on projector on picture to give an idea how their gain/brightness compares.
Getting comparison shots of SilverFire with other ALR screens is like pulling teeth so this would be awesome while you still have both.
Hypermotard likes this.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #90 of 294 Old 01-22-2016, 12:02 PM
Senior Member
 
mishari84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I tested Cinegrey 5D and was very impressed, but unfortunately it not available.

- It was as bright as a white material at the right setup ( angular setup).
- bright enough in non-ideal setup, but much better contrast and details than white material.
- Maintains contrast in a great deal in very lit room.
- No washout out in a darkroom with light walls, unlike white material.

If Carl's ALR has those benefits I will jump on it.
mishari84 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Screen Section

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off