Reaching out for help with Black Widow Screen! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 48 Old 01-11-2016, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Reaching out for help with Black Widow Screen!

I would like to pursue developing this type of screen. I have done a little research but it seems as though the material is getting more and more outdated. I would preferably like to just run to a local Lowe's or Home Depot here in Michigan and be able to build it all myself. We also have Wal-Mart, Autozone, Advance Auto Parts, or O' Reilly's' if a paint is needed from there.

Is Melamine my best option to paint on of something that I can get locally?

I saw that I get can this: http://www.lowes.com/pd_79611-99899-...1&Ntt=melamine

What are my paint options from one of the stores listed above? Which one's do I have to mix and how much?

If you know the exact ones to get that would be extremely helpful!

Sorry for this, but I there is probably an expert here that will be able to tell me all the up to date information on this and I will just be able to go out and purchase it without having to do a ton of research.

I saw the Wiki post regarding the Black Widow paint mix but I just can't seem to find any of that exact paint.

I would really appreciate the help, would save me a ton of time researching!
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post #2 of 48 Old 01-11-2016, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Boy, this looks so simple! Probably wouldn't get very good results though.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/BEHR-Prem...E-2U/202182565
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post #3 of 48 Old 01-11-2016, 11:24 PM
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I believe a lot of folks order the AAA-fine aluminum metallic online since it can be difficult to find in a brick&mortar store. The old/blue-ish version of AAA-fine got mixed with the flat color "Bermuda Beige" while the more current formula of AAA-fine can simply be mixed with a flat mid/light-grey like "Veil".

That Behr "Silver Screen" is just a plain light-grey paint..nothing special or screen-related in any way besides it being a word in the paint name.

The whole reason the "specialty" paints/mixes work against ambient light is either a specific amount of gloss or a certain amount of metallic/mica in the paint.

I personally like mixing DisneyGlidden metallic and ColorPlace interior flat-grey (both from Walmart, totalling about $25 together), but that's not exactly the same as BlackWidow...though it can be made pretty close using a similar shade of grey and a specific mix of Disney metallic and flat-grey (I'd guess 1quart can of DisneyGlidden metallic mixed together with 9oz-10oz of ColorPlace interior flat tinted-"Pebble Grey").

I haven't had any luck finding AAA locally despite having most of those stores available, so you'll likely have to shop online if you want to make BlackWidow properly. On the positive side the AAA-fine seems to be easily purchased online and the mix doesn't require a lot.

What size screen/image are you hoping for and what projector will you be using?
How bad is the lighting situation, and can you do things like put up curtains to improve the situation?

Pretty much any smooth panel can be used as long as it's somehow attached to a frame or support to help it avoid warping as paint dries on it.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #4 of 48 Old 01-12-2016, 12:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow thanks for the response. I think I am going to take your advice on the disneyglidden metallic paint and colorplace paint. I will use the quantities for the mixture that you stated. I will probably just paint it on a 4x8 ft piece of hardboard from home depot. I just wanted something easy to make that will give me some results. I have the pf1500 and I dont have a ton of ambient light. Screen size 95-100". Wish I could just make my own Black Diamond Zero Edge

Last edited by Anohaakten; 01-12-2016 at 02:13 AM.
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post #5 of 48 Old 01-12-2016, 03:18 AM
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Here are some really long instructions describing a short simple process with way too many words.
There's also a video showing how much easier it is than this may sound. :P

You can, of course, paint however you'd like..this is just how I've had luck doing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I'd like to add the suggestion to roll ALL coats vertically, top-to-bottom, as that's what's worked best for me. It also makes it less likely to run the roller dry partway through a run because top-to-bottom is less distance than side-to-side on a screen.
I make sure to do all my rolling, loading, edge-cleaning/rolling, etc..in the same direction (up-to-down, far-to-near), as if pretending the roller itself can't even turn the other way. It's easy, and I never really thought much about it until I was going really fast on a screen and rolled back upwards instead of starting from the top again and noticed the roller nap fluffed outward like an animal pet from tail-to-head.
Going both directions didn't seem to murder the screen, but the roller looked like it would be doing terrible things so I've made a more conscious effort to keep doing things the one way.


If you're having troubles with leaving thick-ish roller edge marks behind as you paint, rolling the roller's edges at a slight angle with one end up in the air diagonally and the other on the paint-tray's "washboard" (the angled, bumpy section) to get some of the extra paint off the roller's edges can help a lot.
The build-up of extra paint along the roller's outside edges is the biggest creator of problems for rolling.

I generally load the roller up with paint, give it a roll all-the-way-around on the washboard (using only the roller's weight to push down)just to make sure I'm not dripping, and then give a quick rotation all-the-way-around on the washboard with each end of the roller (tilting the roller diagonal..one end slightly up in the air).
Then roll a row onto the screen/surface.
For the rows, the roller's own weight is all I use for pressure against the surface unless I'm consistently leaving a slight dry patch in the row in which case I'll give a very light pressure as I get to that part.

Then repeat;
Load, roll the edges on the washboard, roll a second row with a couple inches overlapping the first.

After you've rolled the second row, instead of reloading and starting a third, skip reloading for now and give a top-to-bottom pass across the two rows you've rolled so far using only the roller's weight, starting halfway off the screen's side and halfway on the first row, and then overlapping each pass by a couple inches with the next until you make it back to the point where you stopped.

Then load the roller, roll the edges on the washboard, roll a third row with a couple inches overlapping the second.
Repeat for a fourth row.

After getting your two new rows, instead of reloading, roll over the two fresh rows starting halfway on the third row and halfway on the older second row..and repeat the top-to-bottom couple inches overlapping gentle passes till you make it to your present stopping point.
Then reload, clean the edges, make a new row, and repeat the two-row process till you've finished the first coat.

The rolling on the screen after ~2rows won't fix really bad roller-marks usually, but it can help smaller imperfections and smaller roller-marks by getting the surface a little more uniform. This is done without loading the roller (right after rolling the second row), it should be fine to overlap your rows during this a couple inches..and I still have just been letting the roller's weight provide all the pressure. Not pushing unless there's a noticeable thin patch that can be subtly filled in during this last pass.
I'd imagine a more experienced roller could skip this step entirely, but it seems to help for me.

Here's a short video showing what the above-mentioned process looks like:
http://youtu.be/Qdk5DNBlPlM

Let the first plain coat (or slightly thinned plain coat) dry at least 2-3hours (the longer, the better) and then repeat the whole thing using your mix (NOT thinned) for a second coat.
Usually two coats is plenty even if you're covering a tricky surface (about a quart per coat on a 110" screen). The lighter-colored mixes when painted onto a light-colored/white surface can often get away with a single coat.


Hopefully this advice will make your first rolling a success.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using the earlier rolling instructions I would buy a ~$10 gallon of ColorPlace(walmart brand) flat interior paint OR a ~$15 gallon of Glidden Pro/Professional(HomeDepot) flat interior paint and pour about 1quart into a separate container to mix with about 8oz of water and use that for the first coat..let it dry a few hours and then shine a light sideways onto it to check if any areas could use a quick sanding.
This thinned paint will likely run, so protect your floor and the wall wherever it could drip.

Then I would use a quart can of ~$15 Disney/Glidden magnificent metallic "untinted" (from Walmart) OR a quart can of ~$22 RalphLauren silver tintable metallic (from HomeDepot) and have the store shake it up but not add any tint.
Then in a separate container I'd mix the whole can of metallic together with required amount of flat-grey from the gallon container (NOT anything that's been thinned with water)..and use the same rolling instructions to roll a coat using this mix.

Watch the video below the instructions too if possible. I like to make sure the roller has a good amount of paint on it for each row because I use practically no pressure while painting even if the surface is up on a wall. Even while loading the roller with paint I never pressure it into the pan..it's all just letting the roller do the work. ..'cause I'm lazy...and it helps avoid roller-marks and texture.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #6 of 48 Old 01-13-2016, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anohaakten View Post
Wow thanks for the response. I think I am going to take your advice on the disneyglidden metallic paint and colorplace paint. I will use the quantities for the mixture that you stated. I will probably just paint it on a 4x8 ft piece of hardboard from home depot. I just wanted something easy to make that will give me some results. I have the pf1500 and I dont have a ton of ambient light. Screen size 95-100". Wish I could just make my own Black Diamond Zero Edge
And why can't you? Here's mine:
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post #7 of 48 Old 01-19-2016, 05:38 PM
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Wow

Quote:
Originally Posted by impulse View Post
And why can't you? Here's mine:
Wow...nice job...if I was you I'd send the pic to Screen Innovations. Tell them how much you love their screens and see what response you get? The only way to tell them apart is the clear plastic at the button of a BD.
What size is yours? Sintra? And what paint mixture? LEDs? Sorry for all the question but this is the best of the best I have seen bar none...

Great job, jealous...building mine now I just hope I can replicate yours....
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post #8 of 48 Old 01-19-2016, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detlions View Post
Wow...nice job...if I was you I'd send the pic to Screen Innovations. Tell them how much you love their screens and see what response you get? The only way to tell them apart is the clear plastic at the button of a BD.
What size is yours? Sintra? And what paint mixture? LEDs? Sorry for all the question but this is the best of the best I have seen bar none...

Great job, jealous...building mine now I just hope I can replicate yours....
I think that might be the Carl's ALR material stretched over a poplar wooden frame. Roughly a $230 build (little more or little less depending on the size) which has been getting pretty good reviews and doesn't require any painting at all.
At least one user with a previous/different ALR screen reported they felt the Carl's ALR screen looked superior as well.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #9 of 48 Old 01-19-2016, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detlions View Post
Wow...nice job...if I was you I'd send the pic to Screen Innovations. Tell them how much you love their screens and see what response you get? The only way to tell them apart is the clear plastic at the button of a BD.
What size is yours? Sintra? And what paint mixture? LEDs? Sorry for all the question but this is the best of the best I have seen bar none...

Great job, jealous...building mine now I just hope I can replicate yours....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I think that might be the Carl's ALR material stretched over a poplar wooden frame. Roughly a $230 build (little more or little less depending on the size) which has been getting pretty good reviews and doesn't require any painting at all.
At least one user with a previous/different ALR screen reported they felt the Carl's ALR screen looked superior as well.
Yes indeed Ftoast. This is a 115" Carls ALR. I've been meaning to do a write up but haven't got around to it yet. You can find all of the info here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-di...rejecting.html

And here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-di...less-idea.html
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post #10 of 48 Old 01-19-2016, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I think that might be the Carl's ALR material stretched over a poplar wooden frame. Roughly a $230 build (little more or little less depending on the size) which has been getting pretty good reviews and doesn't require any painting at all.
At least one user with a previous/different ALR screen reported they felt the Carl's ALR screen looked superior as well.
I have decided to try your mix and see how it comes out on a Thrifty White board.
The room is light controlled, dedicated movie room, should I try the Seal grey or Icon grey mix?
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post #11 of 48 Old 01-19-2016, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luelinho View Post
I have decided to try your mix and see how it comes out on a Thrifty White board.
The room is light controlled, dedicated movie room, should I try the Seal grey or Icon grey mix?
The BlackWidow-y version of this (a quart can of the DisneyGlidden or RalphLauren metallic "untinted" mixed together with flat-grey tinted "Pebble Grey" or "Veil") can work nicely for helping against the natural little reflections of light-colored walls/ceilings and will also help against some dim lights, AND it is decently forgiving.
The darker-colored versions using Icon Grey or Seal Grey are more finicky and more apt to highlight little imperfections, but they'll help you fight brighter lights.

The lighter the grey-color you use, the less light it'll fight, BUT the lighter-grey also helps the mix be more forgiving about little imperfections in the surface or paintjob as well as stay brighter for off-axis viewing from farther to the sidea...so a light-controlled room can usually get away with a really light-grey and the gain (ratio of metallic) will depend the your projector and screen-size.

Since you mention ThriftyWhite I'm guessing your screen-size will be around 98"?
What projector will you be using?
Are you a big 3D fan?
How dark-colored do you think you'll need to go..is this for fighting some dim lights or brighter lights or mostly for dealing with light-colored walls/ceiling?

I'm also hoping you read the giant wall of text above (with a video) for guiding how it's rolled?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #12 of 48 Old 01-20-2016, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the information that has been posted in this thread. I think that a lot of users can benefit from all of it. I went ahead and did Ftoast's paint mix with a 3.2:1 ratio of Disney Glidden Metallic (Wal-Mart $13.97) to ColorPlace flat (base 1) tinted Pebble Grey (Wal-Mart $10.49).






First coat with just the ColorPlace paint (32 ounces of paint and 8 ounces of water) I rolled it on with 1/4" nap paint roller (smoothest). Let it dry for 4 hours. Didn't get fully covered so I did another coat. Let it dry for another 5 hours.

Then I painted with the mixture of Disney Glidden Metallic 1 quart (32 ounces) and ColorPlace flat interior tinted pebble grey (9-10 ounces). Let it dry overnight (6-7 hours or so). Then I painted another coat with this same mixture and let it dry for another 6-7 hours. Also used a 1/4" nap paint roller (smoothest).


It turned out much better than me just using my wall that was painted a sort of yellow mustard color. I painted this projector screen on this material that weighs roughly 10lbs.

http://www.menards.com/main/paint/pa...52168273195737

I attached it to the wall with 6 (one in each corner and 2 in the middle) velcro Command Strips (easy to take down when I move). I got the 16 LB Command Strips (Says it right in the top right corner).

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Command-La...21849182#about

Then I put on this velvet ribbon as a border.

http://www.joann.com/offray-velvet-r...ribbon&start=2

Here are some pictures of the process and the results. Some photos with ambient light, others in dark. Paint is still wet in one of the photos.

The projector I use is the LG PF1500.



















Thanks everyone,

Anohaakten
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post #13 of 48 Old 01-20-2016, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anohaakten View Post
Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the information that has been posted in this thread. I think that a lot of users can benefit from all of it. I went ahead and did Ftoast's paint mix with a 3.2:1 ratio of Disney Glidden Metallic (Wal-Mart $13.97) to ColorPlace flat (base 1) tinted Pebble Grey (Wal-Mart $10.49).








First coat with just the ColorPlace paint (32 ounces of paint and 8 ounces of water) I rolled it on with 1/4" nap paint roller (smoothest). Let it dry for 4 hours. Didn't get fully covered so I did another coat. Let it dry for another 5 hours.

Then I painted with the mixture of Disney Glidden Metallic 1 quart (32 ounces) and ColorPlace flat interior tinted pebble grey (9-10 ounces). Let it dry overnight (6-7 hours or so). Then I painted another coat with this same mixture and let it dry for another 6-7 hours. Also used a 1/4" nap paint roller (smoothest).


It turned out much better than me just using my wall that was painted a sort of yellow mustard color. I painted this projector screen on this material that weighs roughly 10lbs.

http://www.menards.com/main/paint/pa...52168273195737

I attached it to the wall with 6 (one in each corner and 2 in the middle) velcro Command Strips (easy to take down when I move). I got the 16 LB Command Strips (Says it right in the top right corner).

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Command-La...21849182#about

Then I put on this velvet ribbon as a border.

http://www.joann.com/offray-velvet-r...ribbon&start=2

Here are some pictures of the process and the results. Some photos with ambient light, others in dark. Paint is still wet in one of the photos.

The projector I use is the LG PF1500.



















Thanks everyone,

Anohaakten
That looks like a 4x8 sheet without being cut down. How do you get the image to fit? Looks great! Love the simplicity.
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post #14 of 48 Old 01-20-2016, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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That looks like a 4x8 sheet without being cut down. How do you get the image to fit? Looks great! Love the simplicity.

Hey impulse,

Thanks for the compliment. I did cut it down to the size I needed. I believe it is 48" by 85", roughly a 97" screen give or take a bit.
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Hey impulse,

Thanks for the compliment. I did cut it down to the size I needed. I believe it is 48" by 85", roughly a 97" screen give or take a bit.
Oh ok. Looks extra wide in some photos.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
The BlackWidow-y version of this (a quart can of the DisneyGlidden or RalphLauren metallic "untinted" mixed together with flat-grey tinted "Pebble Grey" or "Veil") can work nicely for helping against the natural little reflections of light-colored walls/ceilings and will also help against some dim lights, AND it is decently forgiving.
The darker-colored versions using Icon Grey or Seal Grey are more finicky and more apt to highlight little imperfections, but they'll help you fight brighter lights.

The lighter the grey-color you use, the less light it'll fight, BUT the lighter-grey also helps the mix be more forgiving about little imperfections in the surface or paintjob as well as stay brighter for off-axis viewing from farther to the sidea...so a light-controlled room can usually get away with a really light-grey and the gain (ratio of metallic) will depend the your projector and screen-size.

Since you mention ThriftyWhite I'm guessing your screen-size will be around 98"?
What projector will you be using?
Are you a big 3D fan?
How dark-colored do you think you'll need to go..is this for fighting some dim lights or brighter lights or mostly for dealing with light-colored walls/ceiling?

I'm also hoping you read the giant wall of text above (with a video) for guiding how it's rolled?
I will be using W1070 and doing basically what Anohaakten has done.
Except I won't be using it with the lights on, just dealing with the light from the projector and walls.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anohaakten View Post
First coat with just the ColorPlace paint (32 ounces of paint and 8 ounces of water) I rolled it on with 1/4" nap paint roller (smoothest). Let it dry for 4 hours. Didn't get fully covered so I did another coat. Let it dry for another 5 hours.

Then I painted with the mixture of Disney Glidden Metallic 1 quart (32 ounces) and ColorPlace flat interior tinted pebble grey (9-10 ounces). Let it dry overnight (6-7 hours or so). Then I painted another coat with this same mixture and let it dry for another 6-7 hours. Also used a 1/4" nap paint roller (smoothest).


It turned out much better than me just using my wall that was painted a sort of yellow mustard color. I painted this projector screen on this material that weighs roughly 10lbs.

http://www.menards.com/main/paint/pa...52168273195737

I attached it to the wall with 6 (one in each corner and 2 in the middle) velcro Command Strips (easy to take down when I move). I got the 16 LB Command Strips (Says it right in the top right corner).

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Command-La...21849182#about

Then I put on this velvet ribbon as a border.

http://www.joann.com/offray-velvet-r...ribbon&start=2

Anohaakten
I am planning to do exactly what you have done except with Thrifty White Tile.
Could you take a couple of more photos with a different movie with more colors?
The ones you posted are too dark.
Thank you
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post #18 of 48 Old 01-20-2016, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luelinho View Post
I will be using W1070 and doing basically what Anohaakten has done.
Except I won't be using it with the lights on, just dealing with the light from the projector and walls.
The BlackWidow-y version is a good option for lights-off but light-colored walls/ceiling help without otherwise messing with the image since it's such a subtle gentle mix.

Since you mention tiling the panels together, what image-size are you aiming for?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #19 of 48 Old 01-20-2016, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luelinho View Post
I am planning to do exactly what you have done except with Thrifty White Tile.
Could you take a couple of more photos with a different movie with more colors?
The ones you posted are too dark.
Thank you
Hey everybody,
Thanks for all the feedback and kudos to Ftoast for this paint mix (I wonder what he shall name it?). As per request here are some additional photos with lights on and off of more colored scenes.
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post #20 of 48 Old 01-20-2016, 10:30 PM
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Hey everybody,
Thanks for all the feedback and kudos to Ftoast for this paint mix (I wonder what he shall name it?). As per request here are some additional photos with lights on and off of more colored scenes.
That looks amazing!
I am def going for this look but thinner border/frame.
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post #21 of 48 Old 01-20-2016, 10:32 PM
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The BlackWidow-y version is a good option for lights-off but light-colored walls/ceiling help without otherwise messing with the image since it's such a subtle gentle mix.

Since you mention tiling the panels together, what image-size are you aiming for?
I will be using one 48*96 panel, most likely a TWB. I am just trying to figure out what exact mix I could use for a dark room, using W1070.
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post #22 of 48 Old 01-20-2016, 11:17 PM
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I will be using one 48*96 panel, most likely a TWB. I am just trying to figure out what exact mix I could use for a dark room, using W1070.
At that size the dimmest mode on the w1070 hit 15ftL around 0.65gain.
A 2:1 mix (1quart of the tintable metallic "untinted" mixed together with 14oz-15oz flat-grey) should put you around or a little above that while using flat grey tinted-"Icon Grey" or the slightly lighter "Granite Grey" should give a clean and somewhat forgiving paint-mix.

If you'll be using Glidden brand flat paint, "Icon Grey" will be a good option.
If you're using ColorPlace brand paint, "Granite Grey" will be a good option since Icon isn't typically available.
If you're fighting more light the darker "Seal Grey" is a good choice, but with the primary focus being light-wall/ceiling reflections and keeping the cleanest possible image, the lighter Icon or Granite will be more ideal (brighter and cleaner but less aggressive against lights).

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(I wonder what he shall name it?)
I usually just call them by the ratio and color: 3.2:1PebbleGrey (or more loosely, 3:1Veil).
If you think of a catchy name, it's your own screen to name as you wish.

I think someone over at the HTS forum actually tested this out (or something pretty close) and said they liked it, so I'll pass thanks on to them too.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 01-20-2016 at 11:31 PM.
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post #23 of 48 Old 10-03-2016, 12:39 AM
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Hi ftoast,

I came across your paint mixtures and I'm trying to find the best mixture for my situation. I have an Epson 2045 and I'm shooting for around a 98" inch screen. It will be in a basement with no ambient light but I do have dimmable lighting. I'm looking for the best black levels without sacrificing color and 3D functionality. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!!
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post #24 of 48 Old 10-03-2016, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Markdarmor View Post
Hi ftoast,

I came across your paint mixtures and I'm trying to find the best mixture for my situation. I have an Epson 2045 and I'm shooting for around a 98" inch screen. It will be in a basement with no ambient light but I do have dimmable lighting. I'm looking for the best black levels without sacrificing color and 3D functionality. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!!
A 3:1 mix (1quart of the tintable metallic "untinted" mixed together with 9oz-10oz ColorPlace brand interior flat-grey) should put you around 30ftL which is considered very bright, while using flat grey tinted-"Seal Grey" should give a nice deepening of blacks compared to the plain wall while leaving the image about 3X brighter than a grey that dark would normally be.

Will you be spraying or rolling the paint?
Have you already read the fairly long rolling instructions I posted that can help get a smoother looking screen?
Will this paint be going right onto a wall or are you painting a smooth panel that you can lay on the floor while painting+drying?

If you'll be rolling and painting directly onto the wall, a 3:1 mixture can be tricky because the added gain makes every little imperfection on the surface and in the paintjob itself show-up worse than normal paint..so a lower-gain 2:1 mix (1quart of the tintable metallic "untinted" mixed together with 14oz-15oz ColorPlace brand interior flat-grey) is a safer option. That should still keep you around 20ftL which will be nicely bright for 3D.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 10-03-2016 at 06:05 AM.
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post #25 of 48 Old 10-03-2016, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markdarmor View Post
Hi ftoast,

I came across your paint mixtures and I'm trying to find the best mixture for my situation. I have an Epson 2045 and I'm shooting for around a 98" inch screen. It will be in a basement with no ambient light but I do have dimmable lighting. I'm looking for the best black levels without sacrificing color and 3D functionality. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!!
A 3:1 mix (1quart of the tintable metallic "untinted" mixed together with 9oz-10oz ColorPlace brand interior flat-grey) should put you around 30ftL which is considered very bright, while using flat grey tinted-"Seal Grey" should give a nice deepening of blacks compared to the plain wall while leaving the image about 3X brighter than a grey that dark would normally be.

Will you be spraying or rolling the paint?
Have you already read the fairly long rolling instructions I posted that can help get a smoother looking screen?
Will this paint be going right onto a wall or are you painting a smooth panel that you can lay on the floor while painting+drying?

If you'll be rolling and painting directly onto the wall, a 3:1 mixture can be tricky because the added gain makes every little imperfection on the surface and in the paintjob itself show-up worse than normal paint..so a lower-gain 2:1 mix (1quart of the tintable metallic "untinted" mixed together with 14oz-15oz ColorPlace brand interior flat-grey) is a safer option. That should still keep you around 20ftL which will be nicely bright for 3D.

I will be rolling it on a panel and then mounting on the wall. I have read through your rolling instructions and plan to do it that way. I was looking for the disney glidden metallic paint and apparently its not available anymore. Also the ralph lauren metallic is only available online at home depot. Do you have any other suggestions on paint that is readily available in store?
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post #26 of 48 Old 10-04-2016, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Markdarmor View Post
I will be rolling it on a panel and then mounting on the wall. I have read through your rolling instructions and plan to do it that way. I was looking for the disney glidden metallic paint and apparently its not available anymore. Also the ralph lauren metallic is only available online at home depot. Do you have any other suggestions on paint that is readily available in store?
Cool, the panel means your surface will be smooth from the beginning and being able to paint it while it's laying flat on the floor will allow you to thin the paint with water (about 25percent water and 75percent paint) which would be too runny for a vertical/hung panel or wall but will help give a smoother paintjob on a laying/horizontal panel.

I've heard the occasional person mentioning being able to find the Disney/Glidden from Walmart, but for most folks it's sadly no longer sold.
The Homedepot closest to me has most of the RalphLauren paints on clearance, but the tintable metallic is still full price and the lady working at the time told me she believes they'll still be selling the metallic..just not the rest of the RalphLauren paints. So it MIGHT be worth calling or checking again just to make sure your HomeDepot doesn't have the tintable metallic anymore (they might've gotten confused and upon hearing RalphLauren mentioned thought it was all out of there). Or call/ask if they have any water-based metallic by the quart or gallon.

Menards and Lowes carry a Rustoleum Metallic Accents paint that I've used and liked, but it can be harder to find in stores sometimes (the SterlingSilver and darker RealPewter and off-white Pearl are all good options if you see them..Sterling being the easiest if available).

Most craft/art stores and department stores with craft sections sell small 2oz containers of FolkArt metallic (I bought mine from walmart in the art section) which is similar to the Rustoleum but easier to find and usually cheaper for screens around 110" or smaller.
There are quite a few color options which can also be mixed together if the store doesn't have 6 tubes of the one you want..so keep a eye open for SilverSterling, but don't be afraid to grab a couple PearlWhite and/or GunmetalGrey or even BlackSequen if you can't find 5 or 6 tubes of Silver (aka, if they only have 3tubes of Silver, get all three and then grab a metallic-pearl-white and a couple metallic-gunmetal-grey to mix all together later).

If you end up using Rustoleum or FolkArt you'll want to make a 1:1 mix of metallic and flat/matte-grey ColorPlace..that will be about as bright as a 3:1mix of RalphLauren tintable metallic and flat/matte-grey.

You'll want to first paint the panel with plain flat-grey mixed with water to give the panel a smooth coating of flat-paint for the mix to stick to..and give that a light sanding if you're able.
This will help the mix roll nicer and hold better to the panel instead of slipping around while you're trying to roll it (the plain flat paint will slip around and go on somewhat badly, but as long as it dries smooth or gets sanded smooth, that won't matter).
If you make your mix using FolkArt metallic (about six 2oz tubes of metallic and 12oz of flat-grey ColorPlace all mixed together) you'll want to thin it with a little more water than the earlier recommended amounts that you'd be using if you're making a mix with RalphLauren or Rustoleum..because the FolkArt starts out a bit thicker you'll probably want the mix to be about 6tubes of FolkArt, 12oz of flat-grey ColorPlace and 10oz-12oz water.

I know SherwinWilliams and maybe Lowes also carries a tintable metallic/pearl that's similar to the RalphLauren and Disney/Glidden, but it's around $50/quart or something crazy..about twice the price of the other options without having any notable advantages.

Sorry for the wall of text, I'm trying to make sure you're covered for whichever metallic you're able to find.
I'm going to have to remember to bother my local HomeDepot to see what they'll be doing (if they're keeping just the RL metallic like the person mentioned or if they're replacing it with something else or if HD will simply stop carrying water-based metallic altogether).

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #27 of 48 Old 10-04-2016, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Markdarmor View Post
I will be rolling it on a panel and then mounting on the wall. I have read through your rolling instructions and plan to do it that way. I was looking for the disney glidden metallic paint and apparently its not available anymore. Also the ralph lauren metallic is only available online at home depot. Do you have any other suggestions on paint that is readily available in store?
Cool, the panel means your surface will be smooth from the beginning and being able to paint it while it's laying flat on the floor will allow you to thin the paint with water (about 25percent water and 75percent paint) which would be too runny for a vertical/hung panel or wall but will help give a smoother paintjob on a laying/horizontal panel.

I've heard the occasional person mentioning being able to find the Disney/Glidden from Walmart, but for most folks it's sadly no longer sold.
The Homedepot closest to me has most of the RalphLauren paints on clearance, but the tintable metallic is still full price and the lady working at the time told me she believes they'll still be selling the metallic..just not the rest of the RalphLauren paints. So it MIGHT be worth calling or checking again just to make sure your HomeDepot doesn't have the tintable metallic anymore (they might've gotten confused and upon hearing RalphLauren mentioned thought it was all out of there). Or call/ask if they have any water-based metallic by the quart or gallon.

Menards and Lowes carry a Rustoleum Metallic Accents paint that I've used and liked, but it can be harder to find in stores sometimes (the SterlingSilver and darker RealPewter and off-white Pearl are all good options if you see them..Sterling being the easiest if available).

Most craft/art stores and department stores with craft sections sell small 2oz containers of FolkArt metallic (I bought mine from walmart in the art section) which is similar to the Rustoleum but easier to find and usually cheaper for screens around 110" or smaller.
There are quite a few color options which can also be mixed together if the store doesn't have 6 tubes of the one you want..so keep a eye open for SilverSterling, but don't be afraid to grab a couple PearlWhite and/or GunmetalGrey or even BlackSequen if you can't find 5 or 6 tubes of Silver (aka, if they only have 3tubes of Silver, get all three and then grab a metallic-pearl-white and a couple metallic-gunmetal-grey to mix all together later).

If you end up using Rustoleum or FolkArt you'll want to make a 1:1 mix of metallic and flat/matte-grey ColorPlace..that will be about as bright as a 3:1mix of RalphLauren tintable metallic and flat/matte-grey.

You'll want to first paint the panel with plain flat-grey mixed with water to give the panel a smooth coating of flat-paint for the mix to stick to..and give that a light sanding if you're able.
This will help the mix roll nicer and hold better to the panel instead of slipping around while you're trying to roll it (the plain flat paint will slip around and go on somewhat badly, but as long as it dries smooth or gets sanded smooth, that won't matter).
If you make your mix using FolkArt metallic (about six 2oz tubes of metallic and 12oz of flat-grey ColorPlace all mixed together) you'll want to thin it with a little more water than the earlier recommended amounts that you'd be using if you're making a mix with RalphLauren or Rustoleum..because the FolkArt starts out a bit thicker you'll probably want the mix to be about 6tubes of FolkArt, 12oz of flat-grey ColorPlace and 10oz-12oz water.

I know SherwinWilliams and maybe Lowes also carries a tintable metallic/pearl that's similar to the RalphLauren and Disney/Glidden, but it's around $50/quart or something crazy..about twice the price of the other options without having any notable advantages.

Sorry for the wall of text, I'm trying to make sure you're covered for whichever metallic you're able to find.
I'm going to have to remember to bother my local HomeDepot to see what they'll be doing (if they're keeping just the RL metallic like the person mentioned or if they're replacing it with something else or if HD will simply stop carrying water-based metallic altogether).
Thank you so much for taking the time to give me all this information! I really appreciate it. I'll start the search for your paint suggestions and see what i can find. I plan to start on this project sometime next week. Ill def post some pictures and let you know how it all comes out.
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post #28 of 48 Old 10-04-2016, 08:49 AM
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Thank you so much for taking the time to give me all this information! I really appreciate it. I'll start the search for your paint suggestions and see what i can find. I plan to start on this project sometime next week. Ill def post some pictures and let you know how it all comes out.
No problem. I'm happy you're able to stomach all this reading.

I'd suggest first calling HomeDepot to double-check if they've really gotten rid of their RalphLauren metallic and all water-based metallic sold by the quart or gallon.

If that doesn't work out I'd probably hunt down FolkArt metallic (aiming first for "Silver Sterling" and secondly for "Gunmetal Grey" if they don't have 5 or 6 tubes of Silver) from Walmart craft/arts department..the store nearest me has it for ~$1.70/tube which should put you at around $11 for all the metallic you should need for a screen that size.

If you haven't already bought the flat-grey ColorPlace interior wall-paint and you're able to wait a day or two extra, let me know which metallic you find and (if you use FolkArt) which colors you end up being able to pick up.
This way I can make a couple test-panels with that combination of metallic-shades to see which shade of flat-grey seems to work best and report it back to you. These grey/silver/white/black tinted metallics will lighten or darken the screen's color a lot more than the RalphLauren tintable (untinted) metallic, so pairing a combination of them with flat-"Seal Grey" should end up in an okay shade BUT it will likely be a bit lighter or darker than what I was originally meaning to point you toward..If you've already gotten the ColorPlace flat-grey, it won't be the end of the world, but if you haven't and you've got a day or two, I can test stuff for you before you buy it.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #29 of 48 Old 10-04-2016, 10:59 AM
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Thank you so much for taking the time to give me all this information! I really appreciate it. I'll start the search for your paint suggestions and see what i can find. I plan to start on this project sometime next week. Ill def post some pictures and let you know how it all comes out.
No problem. I'm happy you're able to stomach all this reading.

I'd suggest first calling HomeDepot to double-check if they've really gotten rid of their RalphLauren metallic and all water-based metallic sold by the quart or gallon.

If that doesn't work out I'd probably hunt down FolkArt metallic (aiming first for "Silver Sterling" and secondly for "Gunmetal Grey" if they don't have 5 or 6 tubes of Silver) from Walmart craft/arts department..the store nearest me has it for ~$1.70/tube which should put you at around $11 for all the metallic you should need for a screen that size.

If you haven't already bought the flat-grey ColorPlace interior wall-paint and you're able to wait a day or two extra, let me know which metallic you find and (if you use FolkArt) which colors you end up being able to pick up.
This way I can make a couple test-panels with that combination of metallic-shades to see which shade of flat-grey seems to work best and report it back to you. These grey/silver/white/black tinted metallics will lighten or darken the screen's color a lot more than the RalphLauren tintable (untinted) metallic, so pairing a combination of them with flat-"Seal Grey" should end up in an okay shade BUT it will likely be a bit lighter or darker than what I was originally meaning to point you toward..If you've already gotten the ColorPlace flat-grey, it won't be the end of the world, but if you haven't and you've got a day or two, I can test stuff for you before you buy it.
Wow, that would be awesome. Ill go out today and see what metallic paint i can find and def let you know. I really appreciate all of your help!

I think im going to go with the rustoleum metallic sterling silver as i might be able to get it in lowes or another store close to me. If not i can order it online. Havent had much luck finding anything else. I havent bought the colorplace yet. If youre willing to make test panels with different shades of the flat grey i would really appreciate it! Thanks again!

Last edited by Markdarmor; 10-04-2016 at 10:58 PM.
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post #30 of 48 Old 10-04-2016, 11:01 PM
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I think im going to go with the rustoleum metallic sterling silver as i might be able to get it in lowes or another store close to me. If not i can order it online. Havent had much luck finding anything else. I havent bought the colorplace yet. If youre willing to make test panels with different shades of the flat grey i would really appreciate it! Thanks again!
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