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post #1 of 25 Old 01-24-2016, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Drywall screen... paint or no paint?

Hey guys,

I'm slowly building my HT, and I've decided to go with a drywall screen. The guys building it know how to make it perfectly smooth so that should not be an issue, I should end up with a nice, smooth, matte white surface. I am using CRT projection, thus comparatively low light output, the room however is pretty dark, with only two small windows (I plan to paint the room dark brown or black later on...). I would like to get some advice regarding any further painting on the new screen surface. Is it worth the effort at all? I am already pretty happy about the image as it is on my current matte white wall, however if it can be done well, I would like to improve the ambient light rejection a little.
Also, with CRT, I don't have a big problem with black levels, but am still wondering if using a silver base colour for the screen would improve things? If so, would I go for a gray paint, or actual semi-matte silver paint? I'm thinking an actual silver paint would improve the gain factor, but I'm fairly worried about the image hot-spotting if I do use actual silver...

Thanks for any advice guys!
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post #2 of 25 Old 01-24-2016, 04:01 PM
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Painting the room dark-brown or black as you've planned will help with AmbientLightRejection quite a lot, so a specialty paint at that point might struggle to give much noticeable improvement.

The right balance of silver and grey together makes a mix that can keep solid brightness without hotspotting, but the difference won't be nearly as big or helpful after you've fixed your main problem by painting the walls and ceiling darker...unless you tend to watch with lights on where they can hit the screen a little.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #3 of 25 Old 01-24-2016, 04:51 PM
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There is a specific Mix for CRT applications we (PB_Maxx) have been developing that you might be interested in.

PM me and if you decide to get some, post your results back up here.

Otherwise, RS-MaxMudd-LL would be the other optimal and purely DIY mix to consider.

....and begging to differ...a well matched metallic assisted paint mix can and will improve color saturation, deepen and / or retain Blacks no matter what and proportionately to the lighting present, and still provide excellent perceived Whites.

I've recently proven that using 2 different JVC x950r's and if it can make a noticeable improvement to them...it'll do likewise with any CRT.

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post #4 of 25 Old 01-24-2016, 05:44 PM
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as mid to low cost projectors have improved steadily in brightness, contrast, and pq over the past 3-5 years...
it became readily apparent to MM and I that our beloved use of metallics had hit a performance limitation... so to speak...even when using some of the best quality metallics available on the market.

and what was apparent with those pj improvements along the way to 2K/4K was the two sided nature of metallics... a double edged sword... gain and contrast improvements over white and grey screens alike...sure...but also soon to be full of videophile pitfalls and caveats along with it.

there was time period when the diy screen community had solutions which easily showed the limitations of the pj's we were using. now however, the quality of the projectors is certainly showing the limitations of our diy screens.

because our projectors are now brighter and better..for some the answer lies in...let's reduce the gain of our screens...add more white and reduce the metallics ratio. and many have reverted back to simple off the shelf whites and neutral greys altogether. that along with 65 and 70 inch led TV's has many wondering if we've come to a point that's a huge step back from ALR screens and the projector community as a whole.

so the question is...
how do we drastically reduce the role of metallics, drastically reduce the metallic contents we use, make metallics a secondary component, while still maintaining the gain, contrast, and ambient light capability of our current screens, without the caveats they present when upgrading to a better quality pj's?

how do we remain relevant as a projector community in the face of increasing larger LED TV's and their lower and lower price points?

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post #5 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post
as mid to low cost projectors have improved steadily in brightness, contrast, and pq over the past 3-5 years...
it became readily apparent to MM and I that our beloved use of metallics had hit a performance limitation... so to speak...even when using some of the best quality metallics available on the market.

and what was apparent with those pj improvements along the way to 2K/4K was the two sided nature of metallics... a double edged sword... gain and contrast improvements over white and grey screens alike...sure...but also soon to be full of videophile pitfalls and caveats along with it.

there was time period when the diy screen community had solutions which easily showed the limitations of the pj's we were using. now however, the quality of the projectors is certainly showing the limitations of our diy screens.

because our projectors are now brighter and better..for some the answer lies in...let's reduce the gain of our screens...add more white and reduce the metallics ratio. and many have reverted back to simple off the shelf whites and neutral greys altogether. that along with 65 and 70 inch led TV's has many wondering if we've come to a point that's a huge step back from ALR screens and the projector community as a whole.

so the question is...
how do we drastically reduce the role of metallics, drastically reduce the metallic contents we use, make metallics a secondary component, while still maintaining the gain, contrast, and ambient light capability of our current screens, without the caveats they present when upgrading to a better quality pj's?

how do we remain relevant as a projector community in the face of increasing larger LED TV's and their lower and lower price points?
I wonder about your post on this thread as the OP is really going old school here and could benefit from all the DIY history going back to the beginning and just the opposite of how the new light cannons work.

As to the OP I’m not sure but would base my choice on what to use around the PQ you get off that perfect white to start. If your projector and screen size produces enough lumens in your otherwise perfect room I wouldn’t think there would be a lot left to desire. Silvers and metallic paints will help if you need a boast due to not enough lumens of if you have a less than perfect room, but white will get the job done if you have enough lumens in a close to perfect room.

PB
This might make a great topic for a new thread on the rise of projectors and the results it will have on screens both commercial and DIY.

MM mentioned yesterday about my new screen size in my new house 110” and how it begged to be more like my epic screen of 10 years ago and I had to chuckle as that screen was only 120” 4:3 and around 110” 16:9. All the threads I see posted these days or at least most are someone advising someone how they won’t be happy with a puny 120” 16:9 and they should be shooting for 150 or 160”. The new projectors are making things possible now we had a hard time doing if not impossible 10 years ago. I know you remember back to our interesting discussions back then and at that time my thoughts and my epic 120” screen of a simple gray were built around the concept of finding a light cannon that maybe didn’t have the best color accuracy or CR and nothing back then had the kinds of resolution of today, but what we could find is raw output lumens of good RGB light in a few of the business projectors of the day. My plan was always to advise people less can be more if you have the lumens and not as particular about all the other attributes of the projector being spot on perfect.

Now here we are in the future and I can go buy a $700 BenQ or similar with twice the RGB lumens of my light cannon of the past. Five times the contrast abilities and Four times the resolution. It would be a projector with twice the abilities of the best low lumen home theater projectors of ten years ago. The really amazing part of this is as good as it is it is at the bottom of the list today. Quality keeps advancing on all fronts and it is now not even a big deal to do a 200” screen with a halfway decent amount of light control.

Glad to see we are all making the transition to less can be more.

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post #6 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 07:21 AM
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Actually, I find some disagreement with PB's posting, and certainly cannot agree with any statement coming from any quarter that alludes to the idea that enough Projectors have reached the point in time where a screen has no bearing on Image quality, or that calls into question the viability or practicality of the use of Metallic components in advanced paint mixes.

While yes, PB & I have discussed among ourselves(...and as it has been mentioned openly on this Forum between some of us...) the fact that some day when 3500 lumen, 2.5 Million:1 CR PJs are the norm, that very basic screens will suffice, and specialty screens will die out..that day, be it today, tomorrow, or 5 years from now has not arrived, and such prolonged discussions on this Forum only serve to confuse and/or dissuade people from considering the very DIY applications that can bring them the needed performance for so many current circumstances or situations.

Much like someone posting a thread on a DIY Screen Forum about how the advent of affordable 4k Direct View TVs create a similar situation, when in fact they too have no sensible bearing on any FP application that exceeds 90", nor will that time come either for at least 3 years. Any 4K TV over 70" cost as much as a slightly used Economy Car, and even affordable 1080p 80"+ versions weigh almost 200 lbs!

So much is / has been mentioned about repainting rooms to allow for optimizing the performance of lessor performing PJs and simple white / grey screens that the obvious fact that the majority of individuals who need ALR-oriented screens need them because they CANNOT repaint such rooms....the rooms are NOT Theaters....and the PJs in use are not specifically designed to work miracles.

Such statements and expressions of "future shock" have no bearing on the reality of today, and frankly I have to wonder why people who should know better have managed to make things so convoluted and have gotten priorities so misplaced.

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post #7 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 09:12 AM
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Actually, I find some disagreement with PB's posting, and certainly cannot agree with any statement coming from any quarter that alludes to the idea that enough Projectors have reached the point in time where a screen has no bearing on Image quality, or that calls into question the viability or practicality of the use of Metallic components in advanced paint mixes.

While yes, PB & I have discussed among ourselves(...and as it has been mentioned openly on this Forum between some of us...) the fact that some day when 3500 lumen, 2.5 Million:1 CR PJs are the norm, that very basic screens will suffice, and specialty screens will die out..that day, be it today, tomorrow, or 5 years from now has not arrived, and such prolonged discussions on this Forum only serve to confuse and/or dissuade people from considering the very DIY applications that can bring them the needed performance for so many current circumstances or situations.

Much like someone posting a thread on a DIY Screen Forum about how the advent of affordable 4k Direct View TVs create a similar situation, when in fact they too have no sensible bearing on any FP application that exceeds 90", nor will that time come either for at least 3 years. Any 4K TV over 70" cost as much as a slightly used Economy Car, and even affordable 1080p 80"+ versions weigh almost 200 lbs!

So much is / has been mentioned about repainting rooms to allow for optimizing the performance of lessor performing PJs and simple white / grey screens that the obvious fact that the majority of individuals who need ALR-oriented screens need them because they CANNOT repaint such rooms....the rooms are NOT Theaters....and the PJs in use are not specifically designed to work miracles.

Such statements and expressions of "future shock" have no bearing on the reality of today, and frankly I have to wonder why people who should know better have managed to make things so convoluted and have gotten priorities so misplaced.
I didn’t make the post I only replied to it. I even suggested he start a thread as it was pretty much out of place with regards to the OP’s old school needs.

The point is the screen and room can only try and maintain whatever CR the projector can reproduce based around what humans can also see. Just like pixel size the eye can only discern changes to contrast down to some point. Based around that and affordability and being able to do it with ample lumens the day is now or right around the corner.

The unchanging factor is the people’s rooms and that’s been the main factor for a long time that million billion to one projector you described is no better than a ten year old projector in a bright white living room with windows open and the lights on. The only exception then to now is the projectors are doing it with more lumens. The CR will go away as fast as ever when you turn on the lights. If anything you are doing a high CR projector a disservice placing it in a bad room.

As of late I have seen more posts about people having too much brightness on a reasonable sized screen. And the recommendation is still normally go white and unity gain over on the screen forum.

I mainly thought it needs its own thread seeing as how PB has some thoughts along those lines. I know there are others that would take part in such a discussion as well.

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post #8 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 09:40 AM
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Bud,

My post wasn't specifically directed at you...more toward PB, and to any / all in general who would espouse the belief that a "specialty" Screen might be be coming obsolete anytime soon.

But your comment about the Projector is wrong. A True Black (...or close to it...) that is a "projected" Black that is assisted by ultra high Contrast, and is projected at a sufficiently higher Lumen level than the existing foot candle level of a room's lighting, or the reflection level of an adjoining surface, will maintain a higher degree / level of it's original depth of Black than will a under powered PJ that has lessor levels of Contrast and Blacks.

That should be quite obvious to anyone who pauses to consider such.

Certainly some degree of deleterious effect will happen, but the mere fact that the Blacks start out blacker, and are produced onto the surface with more energy than the room lighting has to make a difference. Add to that a screen that effectively uses the lumen output to also help deliver black levels on the screen surface even more, while resisting ambient and reflected light, and you have as optimal situation as possible in a less than optimal set of circumstances. Such things are cumulative, and are only mitigated by external factors that exceed their own levels of presentation.

Improve the room's lighting and reflective quotient and it's all the more better situation.

Turn all that around and yes...things go decidedly south. Rather drastically with a White surface...rather "less than optimally" with a simple Neutral Grey but still better than a White, but neither as good as a well balanced metallic infused surface.

Emphasis must be placed on "well balanced"...and the ability to tailor such a surface to the situation at hand is the singular most important advantage of any such DIY application.

Even so, a Thread that calls into question the need for front Projection as a whole doesn't need press on a Forum so dedicated to Front projection. Over on Direct View Monitors...yes. Here...no.

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post #9 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 11:16 AM
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The best projector in the world would project nothing when projecting black. There is no color black that shoots out of a projector. Black is the absence of light in light and in projection. The CR of a projector boils down to how well it can block light in one pixel and light the one next to it up with bright white light. What you are talking about is perception of contrast and of course a brighter white and enough of it will make blacks look darker. They are no darker but your eye reacts and they look darker.

I’m still waiting for a movie where the credits are black letters on a white background. After all that’s when you are getting up to leave the movie why not light the room up a little.

If you are reading this Martin Scorsese let’s give it a try. Start out and do it slowly though so our perception can adjust. The names will look nice and black that way.

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post #10 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 11:20 AM
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wow. a lot of heat directed at me for the mere suggestion that if you dig deeper into what i was saying is that...

many folks on this forum are only now aggressively using metallics and polyurethanes to make ALR screens and tout their own diy solution's effectiveness on this forum. many of those solutions are essentially derivatives of what MM and I have been doing for more than a decade now. the brands may have changed but the basic components are essentially the same with exception to our RGB based colorant. and when someone is not happy with the performance of their new high metallic content screens now producing insufficient white levels, non-uniformity, roller marks, and graininess... their only drawback is to essentially suggest OTS greys and whites for a solution that they honestly don't really have a grasp of.

there is more to it then...'here's a metallic alternative...let's try this one as a substitute'...

my point is this...i have been a proponent of metallics for a very long time..that certainly has not changed. they will continue to be a major part of how i design coatings. but you can not just continue to suggest a simple 5:1 metallic /grey solution and if that doesn't work then try this other 3:1 metallic/grey solution and if you're not happy with the white levels on that then try this 18:1 metallic/light grey solution...or maybe you'd be more happy with a really light grey or white screen seeing that your theater will be light controlled and all...etc.

so i guess i will retract my suggestion and challenge for this forum to design better, more balanced solutions to maximize our better projectors potential, to maintain their brigntness, contrast, color brilliance, clarity beyond the suggestion of... 'that's a really bright projector...you could get away with a .6 grey screen'

evolving... not reverting.

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post #11 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
The best projector in the world would project nothing when projecting black. There is no color black that shoots out of a projector. Black is the absence of light in light and in projection.
Semantics need to be applied here, not literal meanings that you know are not intended.

I think you know when I make a statement referring to "A true Black (...or close to it...) That I am not referring to a complete absence of light, but rather the deepest possible shade of Grey Scale a projector can produce to emulate the same deep shade being filmed. As such the eye will perceive it as a deep, "True Black".

And indeed, some Projectors accomplish such far more effectively than others.

And if such is / can be done while maintaining the widest possible margin between the brightest Pixel and the darkest Pixel, and manage to do that while pumping out a high lumen output, then a white surface will benefit from such in a darkened room with ideal surfaces, and also in a darkened room with less than ideal surfaces. While a room lit with ambient light will effect an even greater change to to the black levels, if those blacks start out with more dynamic range and are produced by a wealth of lumen output

The same applies on all points for a Light to Mid-tone neutral Grey.

But all the more so for a Grey that contains the right blending of Metallic content, and as such that Grey can be substantially darker still, further deepening the black levels "on screen", and just as it takes more water to douse a big fire, it will take more light to affect those Blacks as drastically as it would greyer blacks produced under lower lumen output.

This is seen happen daily by hundreds...nay, thousands, with only a relative few enjoying blacks that to their eyes truly seem as black as the can possibly be.

To state otherwise would be to deny the very veracity of those making those statements, literally saying that everyone of them are mistaken.

No magic is involved...just applied physics and accepting what can and does happen only reflects good common sense.

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post #12 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 02:10 PM
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wow. a lot of heat directed at me for the mere suggestion that if you dig deeper into what i was saying is that...

many folks on this forum are only now aggressively using metallics and polyurethanes to make ALR screens and tout their own diy solution's effectiveness on this forum. many of those solutions are essentially derivatives of what MM and I have been doing for more than a decade now. the brands may have changed but the basic components are essentially the same with exception to our RGB based colorant. and when someone is not happy with the performance of their new high metallic content screens now producing insufficient white levels, non-uniformity, roller marks, and graininess... their only drawback is to essentially suggest OTS greys and whites for a solution that they honestly don't really have a grasp of.

there is more to it then...'here's a metallic alternative...let's try this one as a substitute'...

my point is this...i have been a proponent of metallics for a very long time..that certainly has not changed. they will continue to be a major part of how i design coatings. but you can not just continue to suggest a simple 5:1 metallic /grey solution and if that doesn't work then try this other 3:1 metallic/grey solution and if you're not happy with the white levels on that then try this 18:1 metallic/light grey solution...or maybe you'd be more happy with a really light grey or white screen seeing that your theater will be light controlled and all...etc.

so i guess i will retract my suggestion and challenge for this forum to design better, more balanced solutions to maximize our better projectors potential, to maintain their brigntness, contrast, color brilliance, clarity beyond the suggestion of... 'that's a really bright projector...you could get away with a .6 grey screen'

evolving... not reverting.
I wasn’t throwing any heat your way I find what you wrote interesting and very much inline with what I have always said and believed to be the science of all this. I didn’t exactly see why those thoughts popped up in this thread and the last batch of comments would have been better directed to the (Easy ambient light rejecting screen paint thread) as I have to believe that’s where it was directed. That thread and paint solution is quite similar to every other screen paint solution and every commercial screen for that matter and it is subjective to the room, screen size, projector and the viewers personal taste. The only thread that was ever not a formula but a methodology was the long defunct thread I did on Simple neutral gray and poly mixtures. There was a method to work thru a combination of trial and error and education as to what happens when both projected light and ambient light combine along with a method of selection of a projector that best suits your needs with a screen.

I can point to as many posts where someone tried one of these other coatings you speak of and didn’t like the results and were advised to tweak things. How can anyone predict the interactions of all the above and then also feel another persons personal feelings about an illusion in advance. At best you can make a educated guess and go from there. The really best method is to get the other person engaged in the hobby to the point they will try and solve it for themselves by asking questions and learning and trying.

I have been reading for years and years of these paints coaxing things out of the projector that go against science and common sense for that matter. There is absorption and reflection that is it. If the surface takes on mirror like properties to some extent that is gain. Retro or angular that is it. We have been thru this a million times and it comes down to absorption, reflection and dispersion. That’s about it. If someone can demonstrate some other scientific principals that come in to play we will all be glad to listen.

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post #13 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 02:20 PM
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While a room lit with ambient light will effect an even greater change to to the black levels, if those blacks start out with more dynamic range and are produced by a wealth of lumen output
Blacks are not produced by a wealth of lumen output. They are produced by no lumen output.

They can be compared by the eye to an area on the screen in the same field of vision that is bright and that brightness causes the eyes to adjust down and see a deeper perception of black. That’s all a wealth of lumen output can do.

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post #14 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
Blacks are not produced by a wealth of lumen output. They are produced by no lumen output.

They can be compared by the eye to an area on the screen in the same field of vision that is bright and that brightness causes the eyes to adjust down and see a deeper perception of black. That’s all a wealth of lumen output can do.
That is the entire point...the ability to produce all the higher colors and whites with high lumen, yet still render blacks via increased contrast without the higher lumen output counteracting such.

The right type Screen can...and does the serve to deepen the blacks on the surface. And with a well thought out screen, does so without crushing detail or proportionately degrading whites and colors. That is what needs to be understood, not twisting the meaning to make it seem something is being alluded to that is not.

It's not lost on me that this Forum is the ONLY forum you express such things in, or try to make thoughts and expressions out of misrepresented statements. I have never seen you attack the principles or claims made by any Mfg screen on the Screens Forum. Ever.

Now why is that?

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post #15 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 02:52 PM
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It's not lost on me that this Forum is the ONLY forum you express such things in, or try to make thoughts and expressions out of misrepresented statements. I have never seen you attack the principles or claims made by any Mfg screen on the Screens Forum. Ever.

Now why is that?
I have in fact. And it comes back to this very topic of the newer projectors doing more. Just the other day a fellow has been happy for years with a Stewart screen and now has upgraded to a Sony that’s much to bright for that screen. A excellent projector but of the new generation of getting more from less in terms of screen. Don Stewart posted in and explained how his new projector was no longer matched to his screen and here is what you need and he was recommending a gray screen. a good recommendation by all measures.

I made my point the room was controlled and the screen has been right for years why not just cut the lumens at the projector with a filter and keep enjoying the image as before or even better. In that case why spend 1k or 2k on a screen to battle ambient light with a projector that could when there is no ambient light and no desire to have such.

My suggestion fell on deaf ears and Mr. Stewart didn’t come back and tell the new screen would produce something that it couldn’t or I would have. Part of it is there is not anything as dark as needed for a bright projector out there to buy. Lots of dark screens and all with gain raised and I hear people complaining all the time about artifacts. They love white because of the purity of image but they love gray with gain because of its tolerance but also problems that come from the gain. Exactly what PB mentioned in his first post.

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post #16 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 03:07 PM
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Ok...in that respect I stand corrected.

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post #17 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 03:50 PM
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don't misdirect or re-interpretation of what i meant in the first post.

my first post was a direct challenge to innovate and a questioning of why the reaction has to be a polar opposite reverting back to ots whites and greys...which is something i am NOT advocating at all. why take an improved projector and castrate it with a .6 neutral grey screen...?

matter... (in this case...metallic) has a shape, size, reflective index, opaqueness and/or translucent, suspended or flat...all of which react to, reflect, absorb, and disperse light differently. without beginning to even trying to understand what makes a metallic work or not.... leads to the caveats I've eluded to.

Stewart's reaction is priceless... because i believe all they've done IS to revert back to less aggressive lower gain screens. But since their ALR screens have always had a bit grain and screen artifacts than their competition... i can see why.

i believe we can do better than that...

so why not break down every single component, logically, scientifically, and visually...and find an advanced solution that maximizes our improved pj's...without filtering them down and castrating them with.
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post #18 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 04:01 PM
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It is not at all like castration it’s about gaining torque. Think of an over driven gray screen as a truck put into its lowest gear. If the idea is speed then it’s a bad idea but if the idea is pulling power then the low gear is what you want. Gain is the same way you are talking about speed and I’m talking about pulling, and maybe a little circumcision.

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post #19 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 04:01 PM
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to the OP...

MM eluded to an Advanced Solution, positive gain, maximizing contrast, dedicated HTS screen we've been working on specifically for CRT projectors, Dedicated HTS Users, Bat Cave worshipers, folks drawn to the brightness of white screens, UST owners, and Ultra-wide viewing cone lovers.

shoot in a PM if you want to know more...
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post #20 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post
wow. a lot of heat directed at me for the mere suggestion that if you dig deeper into what i was saying is that...
Spoiler!

I dropped the ball at least three different times at chicago66 by not communicating clear as I should've (pigment VS paint) and misunderstanding what he was talking about (a calibration issue VS actual physical washout) not seeing the white ceiling near the screen between the dark supports and ended up likely frustrating the stuffing out of the poor individual.
Definitely not my finest hour (...series of days) and it's sadly the other person that ends up suffering the most.

But if you read those posts a bit slower you might notice I wasn't being random..I was chasing solutions for a problem that didn't exist (at the screen-level) and ended up making more problems.
The first suggestion I gave was likely the best, but I starting giving alternative options for fighting washout that was really overblown highlights from contrast settings being too high..because I wasn't asking the right questions before making suggestions.

Also, PB, if you want to separate this whole discussion as its own thread because I did something screen-related that made you shake your head and scoff and would like to get to the bottom if something together, I'd be fine with that and am generally fast at responding.

Then I can move this ot post of mine over there.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #21 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post
to the OP...

MM eluded to an Advanced Solution, positive gain, maximizing contrast, dedicated HTS screen we've been working on specifically for CRT projectors, Dedicated HTS Users, Bat Cave worshipers, folks drawn to the brightness of white screens, UST owners, and Ultra-wide viewing cone lovers.

shoot in a PM if you want to know more...
This wouldn't happen to be the same Advanced Solution that you wouldn't post pictures of with a simple white sheet of paper to display its gain while pairing it with the UST would it?

You haven't shown any examples of a 1.0gain+ Ultra-wide viewing cone screen yet...nothing that handles room reflections noticeably better than a plain white or light-grey anyway.

Ultra-wide viewing cone and UST compatibility also means the screen will toss light all over the room. Brightness like a white screen along with that wide dispersion means 1.0gain brightness..tossed all around the room.
Your wide dispersion also works in both directions so the room's reflections can easily make it back onto the screen, even from wide angles and at a full 1.0gain. Making an UltraWideViewingCone bright/1.0gain screen no more effective against room reflections than a plain white.

If you're, however, talking about a bright and somewhat reflection fighting screen..that is already available full DIY.

Still, you won't get much of a visible contrast assisting advantage over white without narrowing the viewing-cone on at least one axis.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #22 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 05:39 PM
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with respect to chicago666. there wasn't really anything you or anyone else could do. you didn't drop the ball at all. some people are just more drawn to the whiteness of white screens.

within the 5 screenshots he posted... sadly... a least 3 of 5 screenshots favored your screen over the white one.

most people are drawn to what's white or bright..rather than what's right.

the best example is in the desktop shot... the desktop is supposed to be light grey... not white... only the white within the icon is supposed to be white... not the entire screen sample...

...as the screen coating suggestion for the the OP... it actually is a advanced white screen coating and not an ALR one. no need to mix apples with oranges.
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post #23 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 06:34 PM
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Twice in this thread members offered help in the way of private help thru PM. I thought this was a public forum. I would say for every person posting there are 50 reading that are members. And most likely 500 nonmembers reading. What’s the point to private instruction. Is it something we should all start doing? Is the nature of the PM because something is secret?

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post #24 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post
...as the screen coating suggestion for the the OP... it actually is a advanced white screen coating and not an ALR one. no need to mix apples with oranges.
How do you feel this advanced white screen compares to S-I-L-V-E-R or the 18:1white which are both bright, clear, wide and inexpensive?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #25 of 25 Old 01-25-2016, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
Twice in this thread members offered help in the way of private help thru PM. I thought this was a public forum. I would say for every person posting there are 50 reading that are members. And most likely 500 nonmembers reading. What’s the point to private instruction. Is it something we should all start doing? Is the nature of the PM because something is secret?
Posts like a few of yours might well be a primary reason, (...though perhaps not specifically in this instance...) but in reality the desire to move along with getting directly down to helping people ......quickly and effectively.

Public sharing is an option, not a absolute requirement. There have been a total of 237 views of this Thread,...not the 500+, or the 2500+ if 50 were reading the Thread for every one of the 20 posts put up, and the ones who have viewed have been treated to a wandering of topic and some decidedly baiting responses that are NOT helping the OP at all.

Public Forum though it may be, the requests for a PM were also made publicly when they too might have been made "via PM', which is specifically why PMs exist. And specific mention was made for the OP to return (...if he dared do so...) to carry any findings forward. Your comments are simply another example of your penchant to create issues that allow you to express the same old, drawn out opinions you have always expressed, and specifically in this case used try to discredit the effort by others to get directed help to the OP, who...BTW, the Public notwithstanding...is the author of this Thread and whose request for a solution takes precedent over anything else.

How easily some forget that in the rush to have their counterpoints "opinions" heard. While not stated directly, it sure seems at this conjecture your worried that things might actually progress without your ability to continue your own discourse....not that others would be denied the chance to participate. Now that you've reached the point you have, I can easily see where a PMd discourse would "castrate" such efforts. But...that wasn't the intent since the request predated all this, so you should not try using it for an example.

People should not turn Threads into "Bully Pulpits", (...ie: to create issues.) but some do and some all too obviously for their own personal reasons, no matter what else is claimed otherwise.

My own offer to discuss a new and potentially advantageous application was made very early on...and with only the OP's particularly special situation (CRT) considered. There is nothing wrong or subversive about that, nor is there anything wrong with offering privately a application to another Member by giving them the choice to contact someone via PM....or not as is their choice as well. You act as if you yourself would never consider doing such.

While said offer was made before the OT hub-bub started and so cannot be seen as anything else but an offer to help, you would now, 22 posts later, attempt to give it another meaning altogether.

So...what's next up?

Why not simply stop and consider the reason why the OP himself has not responded "publicly" after 19 consecutive rather divisive posts. THAT in itself might reveal much......

......or simply mean nothing at all. But it certainly doesn't bear speculating to a fault over.

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