Up against the Wall, in SLC - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 23 Old 06-14-2016, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Up against the Wall, in SLC

Back in town and right back out again.

You'd think I was over my leg/knee issues....but I ain't ! But my luck is all good, so I'm in for another sore trip.

This coming Thursday I'm on my way to Salt Lake City, UT to install a 9 Channel (7:2:2 Atmos) Theater, and the screen is to be a 14' x 8' Wall, smoothed to fine surface and painted with some Black Flame v2.5 4.0

The Wife wants no Trim, no vestige of the wall being a Screen until the Optoma EW515 hits it with a 120" diagonal image.

There is a serious need for the Lumen output, combined with the BF
v2.5 4.0 because the entire right side wall consists of Floor to Ceiling windows / sliding Glass Door. They are painting the rest of the walls a light Grey, but the Ceiling...like yours...will be left White.

I am coming into a unknown situation...having no real idea what the state of the existing wall is in. The Owner says it was "finished smooth". Right.

But I'm gonna think positive, and if the job is a crazy one, I might have the initial smoothing done by a local contractor and make a return trip at Month's end just to do the Wall Screen itself.

Those who have any degree of interest...stay tuned. It will be an adventure...like always.



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post #2 of 23 Old 06-14-2016, 05:41 PM
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Well, if'n you're in need of a break and interested in coming 40minutes east, I could have some cold ones waiting and would love to show you my theater. Some expert critiquing would be appreciated.

Home Theater Man Cave: Onkyo 7.1 Klipsch LaScala Mains, Shortened LaScala Klone Center, Klipsch Academy Surrounds and Rears; Panasonic AE8000, Panasonic BDP 460, 117" DIY Screen.
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post #3 of 23 Old 06-14-2016, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Excellent! A 1 Home Theater "Theater Crawl".

(...3 Beers and I'll have to crawl back... )

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
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post #4 of 23 Old 06-15-2016, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Excellent! A 1 Home Theater "Theater Crawl".

(...3 Beers and I'll have to crawl back... )
Extra beds available
PM sent.

Home Theater Man Cave: Onkyo 7.1 Klipsch LaScala Mains, Shortened LaScala Klone Center, Klipsch Academy Surrounds and Rears; Panasonic AE8000, Panasonic BDP 460, 117" DIY Screen.
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post #5 of 23 Old 06-15-2016, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by billybobg View Post
Extra beds available
PM sent.
None received so far. Better resend it.

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post #6 of 23 Old 06-15-2016, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
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None received so far. Better resend it.
For some reason the PM won't go through from my BlackBerry. If you could wait until tonight I'll send from home. My gubmint computer won't let me log into many forums.

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post #7 of 23 Old 06-15-2016, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by billybobg View Post
For some reason the PM won't go through from my BlackBerry. If you could wait until tonight I'll send from home. My gubmint computer won't let me log into many forums.
I got the PM. You made the call. Plans are set.

BTW, AVS is instituting a new Password regimen. Soon everyone will be forced to change their old Password to a new one that has at least one Cap Letter, one Lower Case letter,one number, one symbol, and a total of 10 characters altogether.

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post #8 of 23 Old 06-15-2016, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Changes for the better......and a 2-Tripper no less !!!

Post Note:
Just determined there is a need for a "Whole Wall Skim & Smooth" because some of the Transducers are now to go directly at Screen center. I will not have the time needed to effect the needed wall repairs as well as a Whole Wall Skim and Smooth.

So what to do? Well I'm gonna install the Transducers (14 total across the Font Sound stage), replace the Drywall Plugs, and then Roll on a rather new, unique Mix for a temporary surface to let the PJ strut it's stuff. It's presence won't affect the ability of the Drywall finishers to do their job, but it will let us enjoy a movie by Saturday evening. (w/beers of course...)

Afterwards, after I leave, Monday the Wall Prep boys will take over, seal the Drywall plugs, float them out, sand, skim coat, sand again, and then Spray Prime in preparation for my return on the 28th when I will at that time proceed to spray the Wall, hook up all the equipment, and revel in my accomplishments.

...........or find myself treading salty water way out in the GSL !

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post #9 of 23 Old 06-16-2016, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Post Note:
Just determined there is a need for a "Whole Wall Skim & Smooth" because some of the Transducers are now to go directly at Screen center.
Did the original plan not include a center channel, or WAS there a planned "center channel" that was for some reason purposely not centered?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #10 of 23 Old 06-16-2016, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Did the original plan not include a center channel, or WAS there a planned "center channel" that was for some reason purposely not centered?
The the original plan had the Audio transducers I am installing for the center Channel located just below the screen because I was going to use Sintra glued on top of the wall.

But now the entire wall gets painted so the 6 units that comprise the Center Channel can be located almost dead center within the Screen area.

That is always a "best case" senario, "IF" the wall gets finished out correctly.

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post #11 of 23 Old 06-16-2016, 10:52 AM
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Since you mention the location making a difference in this case, it seems like the transducers have a localized sound-source effect that may make the listener aware the center is lower than the left/right's.

I think I've heard you mentioning the transducers don't act that way, so I'm trying to figure out if you meant something else or if the localization is just a good amount lesser compared to the average external speaker.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #12 of 23 Old 06-16-2016, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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No...the proper way of looking at it is this.

  • I was coming into a Retroft situation.
  • Entry must be made to install the units inside a wall
  • Closure must also happen
  • I don't advocate cutting 3 Holes behind the Screen but not Tape / Mudding / Priming the Wall before adhering the Sintra.
  • Closure and priming would have consumed at least 2 days, due to time restraints, this trip could not expand out past 4 days into 6-7
  • Because the Transducers are basically Omni-directional, mounting above or below the screen is perfectly acceptable. Ay either location (...or both...) the Center Sound Stage places all Vocals and Effects within the Screen's perimeter.
  • Mounting them outside the Screen's perimeter would allow me to hang the Sintra and paint it immediately after installing the units.
  • The Transducers do in fact have the ability to easily drive through the 6 mm additional Sintra overlay, but not doing so is even better.
  • Now that the Owner wants the entire wall to be painted with the BF v2.5 4.0 I can Center Mount the Transducers, and return on the 28th after the wall is completely prepped and Primed.


The original plan would have had me place 3 up and 3 down, each group directly above & below the Screen's edges. Now they can and will be grouped much closer together and at Center.


As a added KICK however I plan to Roll on a very Dark Neutral Grey directly over the unfinished Entry Points and give the EH515 beast a trial run. This should take place on Saturday, and if it happens that it is too dark to effectively demonstrate High Ambient Light potential with that Atomic Powered Beamer, I'll take some more shots Sunday Morning. Full Sunlight through a Wall of windows.

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post #13 of 23 Old 06-17-2016, 08:22 AM
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What grey were you planning on, or are you going to mix it on-site till you like the look of it?

At 120" with somewhere in the ballpark of 1200lumens color and 5500claimed lumens white, I imagine picking a flat-grey should be fun. I'll put my spectator bet on "Granite Grey" (N6.7, 0.37gain) for hitting a high ftL in eco-lamp with a somewhat more balanced preset. I'd be nervous about going any darker with a flat-grey.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #14 of 23 Old 06-17-2016, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
What grey were you planning on, or are you going to mix it on-site till you like the look of it?

At 120" with somewhere in the ballpark of 1200lumens color and 5500claimed lumens white, I imagine picking a flat-grey should be fun. I'll put my spectator bet on "Granite Grey" (N6.7, 0.37gain) for hitting a high ftL in eco-lamp with a somewhat more balanced preset. I'd be nervous about going any darker with a flat-grey.
Gotta be dark.....very dark. Much darker than "GG" Darker that anything else seen on the Forum since Silver Fire v2.0 9.0


Here it is before "Tinkering"



After the initial Mix is made I will tinker a bit with a couple additional components intended to preserve / highlight White and Colors.

Expect the unexpected.

.............meanwhile, the Reto-Fit is giving me a case of the Crimson Sphincter. My saving grace? The Owner is a Hands-On Guy and he's doing much of the crawling-related labor.
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post #15 of 23 Old 06-18-2016, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Rising early to get back at trying solve a sticky issue.

Across the Top Plate of the Wall the R&L&C channels are going is a Horizontal upright 2x8 that block...effectively seals that area (...and the Soffit behind...) from access. So today is Demolition Day, with 3.5" x 6" rectangles being SawsAll'd out of the face of that obstructing Lumber.

Once that is done and we can pull our R&L&C Trunk Lines down into the Wall cavities, things will go more smoothly. At this juncture I foresee the temporary Dark Grey Mix going up Sunday Morning at earliest. (...or late today if luck visits us again...)

Because I don't want to turn this Wall Paint Thread into a DIY Transducer Retrofit Journal, I will simply post a link to a different Thread from here on out when there are new developments along those lines.

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post #16 of 23 Old 06-18-2016, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Demo Day is over and happily by mid-afternoon the Wires had been routed to the Front wall. But it will be tomorrow afternoon before any chance to paint might happen, and if that is not possible, there is still a lot of access openings waiting to be cut out, lt ( Screen Painting )will have to wait until my next trip back this coming June 28-1st

More info on this installation can be had HERE

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post #17 of 23 Old 06-27-2016, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Hard to put a name on it........

OK....about to jet back into SLC tomorrow early AM and this time get something accomplished.

So far all I have to show is a completed R & L & C 3 Channel system.


Screen Wall Holes are patched with New Drywall



A Second, "wider" Coat of Lightweight Drywall Compound, applied after a light sanding of the 1st Coat, and itself then "Feather" sanded. To equalize the repaired areas with the "Flat" areas, the Drywall Compound must be carried out (or in) at least 6"- 8" minimum from the previous edges, and those leading edges feathered again.

The image above shows the Wall ready for the major "Float" where the non mud'ed areas of Drywall will receive a heavy enough skim coating so as to become level to the areas with the repaired ridges.

It all seemed to me, to be going so well.

But shortly after my last post, things went decidedly "south".

Both the Owner and I discovered simultaneously that what he thought was his Attic Flooring was actually his old "Roof"! A Flat Roof affair consisting of 3/4" Plywood, 2 sheets of Tar Paper, 1" of Tar and a layer of Pea Gravel!

The previous Owner had a new Roof built over the old leaky one...apparently. And the new Owner never knew about it. Which was very sad because after we/he destroyed a Dozen Reciprocating Saw Blades and almost burned up the Saw, we realized we needed some heavier duty Demolition Tools, and more time than I had left on my Trip.

And....of course there was no chance to paint the screen, let alone hang the Projector. That all happens by/before Thursday AM. The first day in will see all the access points needed to go through the "roof" achieved.
....and all the Transducers in the Ceiling Installed.
(Wiring Harnesses and all Materials are already there waiting)

My unknown is how effectively a job was done on the Screen Wall Skim. (...and Priming...) I came with the hesitant expectation that I would have to do some extra smoothing and sanding myself. (...but that will cut into my Hot Tub time so I'm hoping they manage to do it proud. For me. On a positive note, If that actually happens I will have images (...and Screenies...) of the Screen by Wednesday evening.

So back out again I go to John Smith Country.
4 working days to have a functional Theater up and running in a very dysfunctional area. Maybe pick up a Sister Wife or two?

I know I'd love that..and my Wife could use a break too.



...right.
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post #18 of 23 Old 07-03-2016, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok....on my way back home after a fairly stressful experience. But I persevered. (Ie. survived )

I managed to get the 14' x 9' wall painted out, and took a few screen shots in the most horrid, almost direct sunlight and overhead lighting that I have ever attempted. And...if that was not enough, utilizing as much of the wall as possible, se of the images exceed 160" diagonal.

I am in route home at present, but once I get my Lap Top situated at the Gate, I will upload some examples.

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post #19 of 23 Old 07-03-2016, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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OK..1/2 way back to The Barn!

First off, let me state that unlike so many time before having depended upon the Drywall Finishers to smooth and prime to "my" liking, this time the job doe left me with the BEST finish I have ever encountered...my own included!

Absolutely gorgeous.



1st Duster
Coat with "Sprayed" Edge Cut-in




2nd Duster Coat



Jumping ahead to the 4th Coat



5th Coat



6th and Final Coat



Menu shot less than 20 minutes after final sprayed coat (...note the Dowel Rod used to judge PJ mounting height...)



Menu as seen in high afternoon sunlight w/Floods on too!



The next few in series are all done in ultra high ambient & direct Sunlight coming from the right side.

And BTW, the images shown are at 145" diagonal (12'+) The normal use will be at 110" diagonal, but where's the fun at showing "that" size?

I figure that seeing what the images look like at 145" diag. can only help to indicate performance all the mo' bedder.









The next grouping (lits of them) saw the afternoon Sun getting a little less intense






























Here is the Peacock again with the forward Floods directly over tahe screen combining aagain with the afternoon sunlight



No Floods in the rest of the images.



It's almost too much to Bear...........




............but Bear it you must.








So there are all the shots I managed to take in the time left to me after a full day of squirtin' my heart out. Lemmie tell ya sumpthin', it twern't no fun nor was it easy gettin' down low enough to catch the area at Base Board height, not was the stretchin' to reach the 9' height at the top of the wall. My Knee was talkin' to me constantly, and by afternoon's end was about the size of a Ripe Melon.

Doing the Mississippi Shufflin' sideways and in a squatting position on a bum leg was an exercise in pain, but the end results were worth it.

BTW, this Black Flame mix was a custom job....combining 2 quarts of Black Flame, 1.5 quarts of Black Flame X1I, and 1 quart of a special Dark Gray Mix. All together they produced a uber-dark paint that still did not crush Colors and White to oblivion. The projector received no tweaking or calibration, so what you see in the images is what the factory present for "normal" produced. Normal lamp level of course, but all values were set to -0-.

I return again in 2 weeks to finish thr sound system and calibrate the PJ, so stay tuned.

I welcome any comments at this point as well.
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"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings

Last edited by MississippiMan; 07-04-2016 at 08:05 AM.
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post #20 of 23 Old 07-04-2016, 10:20 AM
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Looks great man.

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post #21 of 23 Old 07-05-2016, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
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About that "Special" Dark Gray Mix.

Instead of upping the BF Colorant into the 7-8 oz range, I took another tack and used 32 oz of a N4 Neutral Gray in a Flat Matte Base of Behr 1300

This was added to 3.5 Quarts of Black Flame N/C(& X1I) for a 3.5:1 ratio, with no additional water needed. (...the BF comes ready to squirt as is...)

This was done to allow for some additional particle Masking to corral the possibility of any Graininess or Spark-lies because the viewing distance is only going to be 11' -12' at the most for the Grown-Ups and the kids will use Bean Bags from 6'-7' Ultimate screen surface clarity from close in is mandatory in this case And in this case I estimate screen gain at .9 to 1.0

The 110 Outlets on the Screen Wall you see in the images...they are going away when I return back on the 16th. The Good Wife liked the BIG Picture enough that seeing the Outlets directly underneath the Screen started giving her the NWAF blues.

God Bless her! (...and to think this project started out as a Frame-less 100" Screen on a Painted wall! ...)

I can excise those Cretans off the wall, repair and repaint, and viola'! A pristine Screen wall !

After that will come the Sound Equip Set-in & Check, and the job is complete!

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
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post #22 of 23 Old 08-07-2016, 03:16 AM - Thread Starter
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
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Now you See them....now you don't!

Ok...a return Trip to Salt Lake City also involved making two obtrusive 110ac Receptacles on the Wall Screen "disappear".

This was something the Wife requested, after having become enamored of the huge image, but also distressed at seeing the two Receptacles so close to the bottom of the image. (see previously posted images)

First and foremost...a disclaimer.

Disassembling a 110ac outlet and enclosing it into a wall plenum is not a normal practice, and essentially is not a "Code Approved" solution. So the following example is not intended to suggest that such a course of action is either recommended or acceptable in any / every case.

That said, the Receptacles shown were in a simple "Daisy Chain" configuration, where the Romex was passed from box to Box, and a single Hot black/ Control white/ Ground copper wire was attached at a Wire Nut connection and sent into each Receptacle Device.

Simply removing the single Tire from the Wire Nut'ed connection maintained the same degree of integrity as the Box originally had.



The next image shows the initial entry into the wall and removal of the Nailed-On Box



Next Step involved inserting 2- 3" x 8" x 3/4" pieces of Plywood for Deadwood structure as backing for the new Drywall Patch.


Insertion of the New Drywall...........



Application of N
ylon Drywall Joint Tape.....



1st Coating of Drywall Mud Compound.......

The finished Drywall Patches.......



And then came the Sprayed on application of some Kilz "Gray" Primer (Spray Can) that conveniently almost matched the color of the existing Screen paont on the Wall...just slightly lighter.

And at last I was able to Duster Coat on 6 coats of the Black Flame and perfectly blend in the Repaired areas.




And just like that (...I wish )a perfectly pristine Screen Wall. So much nicer looking!

Many times I have seen members post about having a Light Switch or 110 Receptacle in the way of achieving the end results they wish for. Hopefully this shows that there is a viable alternative.
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"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings

Last edited by MississippiMan; 08-07-2016 at 03:24 AM. Reason: Forum Token expired...and it should not have !!!!
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post #23 of 23 Old 07-14-2017, 03:15 PM
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Those results look fantastic.
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