Easy FolkArt ALR Paintmix - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 36Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 289 Old 02-14-2017, 01:14 PM
Senior Member
 
SXRDISBEST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
It would be best to paint onto the surface while it's pulled/stretched flat and straight.
110" shouldn't be a problem with a good 1200 lumens even if you want to go darker-colored..so it'll mostly be the sparkly sensitivity/visibility you'll want to keep an eye on.

The price of some paint and FlexiWhite doesn't really beat the price of Carl's ALR by much, and unless you're choosing a paint-mix that's a decent ways darker-colored or lighter-colored you'll just end up with a painted screen that looks about the same as Carl's at best.
I'm glad you're willing to give this a shot, but I don't want you wasting money on it for no real benefit.
That's a very good point! So you haven't been able to create a formula that eliminates sparkle or brings it down to a level better than the elite 3d or carl's? I may have to just stick with white and deal with the washed out picture during the day. Which is fine but not ideal!
SXRDISBEST is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 289 Old 02-14-2017, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by SXRDISBEST View Post
That's a very good point! So you haven't been able to create a formula that eliminates sparkle or brings it down to a level better than the elite 3d or carl's? I may have to just stick with white and deal with the washed out picture during the day. Which is fine but not ideal!
The only screens I've made that have less sparkle than Carl's ALR/Elite's 3D are also noticeably lighter-colored, so they're less aggressive light-fighters.

If you haven't already, you might want to look at a sample of Carl's FlexiGrey (or Elite's CineGrey Classic, although I don't know how much texture the Classic will have compared to the smooth FlexiGrey). At 110" I doubt the lower gain will be a problem and the more subtle light-fighting might strike a better balance between showing little/no sparkle but giving some added help during the day or when lights are on.

If the price isn't prohibitive to you, it wouldn't hurt to get a sample of Dark Energy Abyss material to look at. Most folks really like how clean/non-sparkly DEA looks in addition to being very aggressive. With the problems you noticed on Carl's ALR you might also have issues with the DEA material, but checking out a sample tip see for yourself can't hurt. They're a ways more costly than full DIY at around $800-$1000 for that size, but they also offer full frame+screen kits that don't change the price much and you may be able to discuss pricing options that are more in your favor with Stephen if you find that you really like the sample.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #63 of 289 Old 02-14-2017, 02:27 PM
Senior Member
 
SXRDISBEST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
The only screens I've made that have less sparkle than Carl's ALR/Elite's 3D are also noticeably lighter-colored, so they're less aggressive light-fighters.

If you haven't already, you might want to look at a sample of Carl's FlexiGrey (or Elite's CineGrey Classic, although I don't know how much texture the Classic will have compared to the smooth FlexiGrey). At 110" I doubt the lower gain will be a problem and the more subtle light-fighting might strike a better balance between showing little/no sparkle but giving some added help during the day or when lights are on.

If the price isn't prohibitive to you, it wouldn't hurt to get a sample of Dark Energy Abyss material to look at. Most folks really like how clean/non-sparkly DEA looks in addition to being very aggressive. With the problems you noticed on Carl's ALR you might also have issues with the DEA material, but checking out a sample tip see for yourself can't hurt. They're a ways more costly than full DIY at around $800-$1000 for that size, but they also offer full frame+screen kits that don't change the price much and you may be able to discuss pricing options that are more in your favor with Stephen if you find that you really like the sample.
Yeah, I saw the DE Abyss and was hoping they would be cheaper. I sold my Stewart Firehawk and told myself that I wouldn't spend that much on a screen again! Like many out there, I'm searching for that white wale that probably doesn't exist. All the upside and no downside.

Like you were saying, the less aggressive mixes might work well and I've been looking at Cream and Sugar Ultra. It looks pretty promising, as it's an N9 mix. Have you seen that particular paint?
SXRDISBEST is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 289 Old 02-14-2017, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Spoiler!

I've been a terrible procrastinator when it comes to ordering some AAA-fine and trying the different mixes that use it, but I'm pretty confident Cream&Sugar shouldn't bother you with sparkle.
I think C&S could be a cool mix to compare with a sample of FlexiGrey (which is around N8), particularly because both have a good chance at being a great dark/night-time screen rather than just a helpful secondary/daytime screen.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #65 of 289 Old 02-14-2017, 06:59 PM
Senior Member
 
SXRDISBEST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Spoiler!

I've been a terrible procrastinator when it comes to ordering some AAA-fine and trying the different mixes that use it, but I'm pretty confident Cream&Sugar shouldn't bother you with sparkle.
I think C&S could be a cool mix to compare with a sample of FlexiGrey (which is around N8), particularly because both have a good chance at being a great dark/night-time screen rather than just a helpful secondary/daytime screen.
Yeah, I think it would be an interesting choice that would work really well in both environments.

One more question. I have a sample of studiotek 130 and I really like the way it looks. Has anyone tried to replicate it with a pearl paint or something? It has a very pearl like look to it when just looking at the sample under incandescent light. It has a 1.3 gain and looks rather warm when compared to white.
SXRDISBEST is offline  
post #66 of 289 Old 02-14-2017, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Mixing the metallic Pearl FolkArt 1:1:1 Pearl+MattePoly+water does give a warm off-white that can push up around 1.3-1.5gain. Because the color is so light (I wouldn't even call it grey..that's why I usually say "off-white"), the screen-surface "visibility" is less than Carl's ALR. You can also mix the FolkArt metallic Pearl with the FolkArt metallic SterlingSilver (or use just the Silver without the Pearl) to get a N8-N9 with around 1.1-1.3 gain and still have less sparkle than darker-colored mixes or screens like Carl's ALR.
I'd still recommend testing whatever paints/mixes you're thinking about on a smaller throw-away surface first to make sure the texture/sparkle is as low as you personally need it.
I can vouch for the FolkArt metallic (plus matte poly and water) spraying a nice ways more smoothly than other paints I've sprayed and the gain/brightness should be higher than FlexiWhite or Cream&Sugar.
SXRDISBEST likes this.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #67 of 289 Old 03-18-2017, 10:44 PM
Senior Member
 
yakapo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Ftoast,

I began researching diy screens some time ago. Now, I'm in my new home and I'm about to purchase an Epson 3500. It will be set up in a 22'x17.5' living room. The room is open to the kitchen and has lots of windows. I chose this projector because it measures at up to 2900 lumens and people claim it's as bright as a TV.

Do you think the folk art screen is a good choice for my projector and room? I know this projector has somewhat weak black levels, so maybe a black screen would be ideal? Or, should I opt for a screen that has a wilder field of view-
since I don't need much gain with nearly 3,000 measured lumens.

I like the black screens. What do you suggest?
yakapo is offline  
post #68 of 289 Old 03-19-2017, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakapo View Post
Ftoast,

I began researching diy screens some time ago. Now, I'm in my new home and I'm about to purchase an Epson 3500. It will be set up in a 22'x17.5' living room. The room is open to the kitchen and has lots of windows. I chose this projector because it measures at up to 2900 lumens and people claim it's as bright as a TV.

Do you think the folk art screen is a good choice for my projector and room? I know this projector has somewhat weak black levels, so maybe a black screen would be ideal? Or, should I opt for a screen that has a wilder field of view-
since I don't need much gain with nearly 3,000 measured lumens.

I like the black screens. What do you suggest?
This is one of the friendliest mixes to spray a black/dark-colored screen with and your super bright Epson can help keep a bright image despite side-dimming on any of the darker-colored mixes.
If you're alright smoothing the surface and spraying, this mix is a very good option..but if you want to roll instead of spray, this mix hasn't worked well for rolling when I've tried it.

What screen size are you aiming for?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #69 of 289 Old 03-19-2017, 08:32 AM
Senior Member
 
yakapo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
This is one of the friendliest mixes to spray a black/dark-colored screen with and your super bright Epson can help keep a bright image despite side-dimming on any of the darker-colored mixes.
If you're alright smoothing the surface and spraying, this mix is a very good option..but if you want to roll instead of spray, this mix hasn't worked well for rolling when I've tried it.

What screen size are you aiming for?
I'm thinking 110-125", depending on where I place the projector. I want to set it up for maximum efficiency. The problem is, I have a ceiling fan hanging in the middle of the room wnd a 10' ceiling. I might mount the projector right next to the ceiling fan but just above the blades. The Epson 3500 has a little horizontal and vertical shift.

I plan on buying a sprayer, doing at least 4 thin coats, and using a hair dryer after each coat - per your recommendations. Will a dark screen work just as well in the night time? We will still have some lights on in the adjacent rooms while using the projector at night.
yakapo is offline  
post #70 of 289 Old 03-19-2017, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakapo View Post
I'm thinking 110-125", depending on where I place the projector. I want to set it up for maximum efficiency. The problem is, I have a ceiling fan hanging in the middle of the room wnd a 10' ceiling. I might mount the projector right next to the ceiling fan but just above the blades. The Epson 3500 has a little horizontal and vertical shift.

I plan on buying a sprayer, doing at least 4 thin coats, and using a hair dryer after each coat - per your recommendations. Will a dark screen work just as well in the night time? We will still have some lights on in the adjacent rooms while using the projector at night.
That particular Epson barely dims at all from using its zoom to mount farther, so you could mount it as far back as about 19.5ft (lens-to-screen) from a 125" screen if you want.
That projector is limited to going only 5% above a screen or less which will mean your screen will have to have its top only an inch or two below the projector at most..so keep that in mind if your fan is pretty high and you're deciding whether to mount above or below it. If you mount the projector really high, the image it projects will be quite high too, with its top about as high as the projector.

Any aggressive light-fighting screen will tend to be more visible compared to a plain flat paint which can basically disappear behind a projected image, but this FolkArt mix is one of the cleanest and smoothest-looking aggressive mixes..so it can look very good in the light and in the dark.
The darkest screens DO look their best when your projector is mounted a bit farther at a given screen-size rather than having the projector as close as possible for that same size..mounting around 12ft or farther for a 110" screen, or 13.5ft-14ft or farther for a 125" screen. The farther back you mount the projector for a given size, the more uniformly bright the image will be on an aggressive screen.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #71 of 289 Old 03-19-2017, 08:34 PM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,242
Mentioned: 282 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3791 Post(s)
Liked: 1760
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
A Hair Dryer?

I mean really.

A full size screen deserves....nay, demands a more effective approach.

Increasing the room temp to at least 78-80 degrees and then using a Clean, 16" to 18" diameter Pole Fan set at 7' from a 120" screen, and run on Medium speed for 15 minutes will do an excellent job of drying / shrinking the paint between coats...far better than the spot drying a Hand held Hair Dryer could ever possibly accomplish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
The darkest screens DO look their best when your projector is mounted a bit farther at a given screen-size rather than having the projector as close as possible for that same size..mounting around 12ft or farther for a 110" screen, or 13.5ft-14ft or farther for a 125" screen. The farther back you mount the projector for a given size, the more uniformly bright the image will be on an aggressive screen.
What you describe is something common to a screen that has the tendency to Hot Spot. Purposefully reducing Lumen-s delivered to the surface by increasing throw distance, as well a mitigating tendencies of the screen to direct too much back toward the viewer is only something that shows the failings of such a screen...not any desirable traits.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings

Last edited by MississippiMan; 03-19-2017 at 08:38 PM.
MississippiMan is online now  
post #72 of 289 Old 03-20-2017, 12:31 AM
Senior Member
 
yakapo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
That particular Epson barely dims at all from using its zoom to mount farther, so you could mount it as far back as about 19.5ft (lens-to-screen) from a 125" screen if you want.
That projector is limited to going only 5% above a screen or less which will mean your screen will have to have its top only an inch or two below the projector at most..so keep that in mind if your fan is pretty high and you're deciding whether to mount above or below it. If you mount the projector really high, the image it projects will be quite high too, with its top about as high as the projector.

Any aggressive light-fighting screen will tend to be more visible compared to a plain flat paint which can basically disappear behind a projected image, but this FolkArt mix is one of the cleanest and smoothest-looking aggressive mixes..so it can look very good in the light and in the dark.
The darkest screens DO look their best when your projector is mounted a bit farther at a given screen-size rather than having the projector as close as possible for that same size..mounting around 12ft or farther for a 110" screen, or 13.5ft-14ft or farther for a 125" screen. The farther back you mount the projector for a given size, the more uniformly bright the image will be on an aggressive screen.
I just set up the 3500. I'm projecting the image on a white wall, and I was impressed. 100x better than watching on a tv. So much depth in the image. The one issue I have is the judder. Of course I just watched lots of scenery videos with lots of wide pans. I traded some other items for this projector. Perhaps I should sell it and buy a 3100 (which has frame interpolation).
If I can reproduce what I just experienced watching at night on a plain wall (and a little bit of ambient light) in the daytime with a decent alr screen, I'd be very satisfied.

Regarding mounting, I'd much rather mount it as far back as possible. After all, it's going in my living room.

I just realized, I'm going to have to connect a htpc so we can watch tv on the projector. Surely there are some cord cutters on here. I wonder what they use?

Last edited by yakapo; 03-20-2017 at 12:37 AM.
yakapo is offline  
post #73 of 289 Old 03-20-2017, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakapo View Post
I just set up the 3500. I'm projecting the image on a white wall, and I was impressed. 100x better than watching on a tv. So much depth in the image. The one issue I have is the judder. Of course I just watched lots of scenery videos with lots of wide pans. I traded some other items for this projector. Perhaps I should sell it and buy a 3100 (which has frame interpolation).
If I can reproduce what I just experienced watching at night on a plain wall (and a little bit of ambient light) in the daytime with a decent alr screen, I'd be very satisfied.

Regarding mounting, I'd much rather mount it as far back as possible. After all, it's going in my living room.

I just realized, I'm going to have to connect a htpc so we can watch tv on the projector. Surely there are some cord cutters on here. I wonder what they use?
I thought the 3500 had Frame Interpolation and it was the cheaper 3000 which didn't. The 3100 is even fancier if you decide to swap for it, but you might want to check for software/computer CFI if you're mostly playing from the computer and if the 3500 doesn't have CFI hiding somewhere in its Advanced Menu.

Mississippi's recommendation about turning up your heat for the room and using a clean fan between coats (not during painting itself, of course) will help your drying nicely. I still like using the blow-dryer as well, but I'm pretty impatient.

The best quality wireless will come from a wireless HDMI unit. They usually cost around $300+ although some cheaper devices that work by line-of-sight can be great as long as your computer and projector are in the same room together. It's pretty rare to find any good wireless HDMI under $200-$250, but it's totally possible that I'm missing a few excellent inexpensive models too.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #74 of 289 Old 03-20-2017, 09:00 AM
Senior Member
 
yakapo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I thought the 3500 had Frame Interpolation and it was the cheaper 3000 which didn't. The 3100 is even fancier if you decide to swap for it, but you might want to check for software/computer CFI if you're mostly playing from the computer and if the 3500 doesn't have CFI hiding somewhere in its Advanced Menu.

Mississippi's recommendation about turning up your heat for the room and using a clean fan between coats (not during painting itself, of course) will help your drying nicely. I still like using the blow-dryer as well, but I'm pretty impatient.

The best quality wireless will come from a wireless HDMI unit. They usually cost around $300+ although some cheaper devices that work by line-of-sight can be great as long as your computer and projector are in the same room together. It's pretty rare to find any good wireless HDMI under $200-$250, but it's totally possible that I'm missing a few excellent inexpensive models too.
Great idea.. I'll use SVP on my PC for frame interpolation.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
yakapo is offline  
post #75 of 289 Old 07-06-2017, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
I thought this was a pretty fun comparison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
This (FolkArt mix) turns out like the $800 DE Abyss screen for about $20.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
That last sentence is a ridiculous statement, unless one considers that both are screens. You certainly cannot show any such proofs that would substantiate such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Here are a few shots of that FolkArt mix beside the DE Abyss.
Overhead lights on full:


Overhead lights low, on-axis:


Overhead lights low, off-axis:


I think the paint turned out pretty close..particularly at 1/20 the price or less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Not even close. Colors are considerably duller and shifted, really attenuated.
It certainly doesn't do much as far as delivering any real Image Quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I thought both screens looked pretty nice.
Which side are you disliking for being "duller, color-shifted and attenuated"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
It is totally impossible for myself to believe, let alone accept that what is shown above would allow anyone to determine the image on the left ...which is NOT the DEA...represents the better image.

I'd also say that if given the opportunity, I have no doubt whatsoever that if such was presented, it would be done in such a way as to favor the less expensive option, because frankly...that's just the way all such comparisons of anything else against the preferred "cheap" paint applications coming from this direction have always been presented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Thank you for the critique.
I'm not sure how either screen could've been "favored" very heavily (aside from the off-axis picture which favored the left side) when they're both being hit by the same projector and the same centered overhead light..disadvantages sent toward either would mostly affect them both

It sounds like UhltraAychDeeForK likes some aspects of the left side and also some of the right side while MississippiMan prefers the right side pretty exclusively.



Anyone else want to guess which is which, or chime in about things they like/dislike from either screen?
SPOILER
Spoiler!

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #76 of 289 Old 07-07-2017, 04:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Walnut, CA, USA
Posts: 4,065
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1495 Post(s)
Liked: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I thought this was a pretty fun comparison.
















Anyone else want to guess which is which, or chime in about things they like/dislike from either screen?
Yes, that is fun. I prefer the right-hand side, even though the highlights seem a bit blown out compared to the left side in the on-axis pics. The only problem is that there seems to be some posterization and some artificial edge enhancement -- more on the left than the right. Is that an effect of the camera, or smoothness of the surface, or low resolution of the projector, or just the source image ?

*********************
Kirk Ellis
BenQ TK800 VuTec 122" Screen, Harmon Kardon AVR 247
Psycoustic Mark III L&R Towers, Boston Center, Energy Take 5 Surrounds
dreamer is offline  
post #77 of 289 Old 07-08-2017, 02:51 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamer View Post
Yes, that is fun. I prefer the right-hand side, even though the highlights seem a bit blown out compared to the left side in the on-axis pics. The only problem is that there seems to be some posterization and some artificial edge enhancement -- more on the left than the right. Is that an effect of the camera, or smoothness of the surface, or low resolution of the projector, or just the source image ?
I'm guessing you already know this, but things like overexposure/underexposure-clipping, posterization and artificial edge-enhancement can't be caused by a projection screen.
Spoiler!

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 07-11-2017 at 02:04 AM.
Ftoast is offline  
post #78 of 289 Old 07-14-2017, 03:51 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Would this mix work if you are primarily projecting text on a colored background?
Brian Gibson is offline  
post #79 of 289 Old 07-14-2017, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Gibson View Post
Would this mix work if you are primarily projecting text on a colored background?
Yes.

Do you have a particular projector, screen-size, screen+projector position already in mind?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #80 of 289 Old 07-14-2017, 09:58 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Yes.

Do you have a particular projector, screen-size, screen+projector position already in mind?
It is a P502HL-2 NEC. Screen size is 150" at 14'. I hope to use 1/4 MDF for the screen.
Brian Gibson is offline  
post #81 of 289 Old 07-15-2017, 03:40 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Gibson View Post
It is a P502HL-2 NEC. Screen size is 150" at 14'. I hope to use 1/4 MDF for the screen.
If the projector can be mounted at roughly the same height as the top of the screen (or higher), that would be pretty ideal.

A 150" screen made of panels would work best if you can level, fill and smooth all the seams, then grab a ~$10 gallon of ColorPlace flat interior LightBase/white from Wal-Mart or a white primer from the store of your choice to give it a nice coating of white (which might want a quick/light sanding) before spraying your screen mix onto it.

A screen that size can use a mix of:
-9tubes of FolkArt metallic (they're little 2oz tubes..around $1.75each at Wal-Mart art/craft section). You'll only want two of them to be "gunmetal grey" FolkArt metallic..the other seven should be some "Pearl" metallic FolkArt and "Sterlingsilver" metallic FolkArt. That'll make a medium-grey screen with higher gain and a brighter image.
-18oz matte polyurethane (a quart of matte Varethane poly is ~$12 at HomeDepot)
-17oz-18oz water

So the mix will cost around $30 altogether, plus ~$10 for the gallon of flat-white and your panel filling/smoothing supplies.

You can also mix a little of the inexpensive white paint half'n'half (or 2parts paint with 1part water if the paint is already kinda thin) with some water to test how well your sprayer handles really thin paint. You'll be looking for it to lay out a pretty smooth freckled mist onto the surface without coughing/sputtering or periodically sneezing big globs of paint.
If the sprayer doesn't have an adjustment/setting that behaves with thin paint, the least expensive sprayers that work well cost around $40-$50...I'm not sure if that would even be an option though.

Did you already read about spraying duster-coats/multiple fast light coatings?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #82 of 289 Old 07-15-2017, 09:22 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
If the projector can be mounted at roughly the same height as the top of the screen (or higher), that would be pretty ideal.

A 150" screen made of panels would work best if you can level, fill and smooth all the seams, then grab a ~$10 gallon of ColorPlace flat interior LightBase/white from Wal-Mart or a white primer from the store of your choice to give it a nice coating of white (which might want a quick/light sanding) before spraying your screen mix onto it.

A screen that size can use a mix of:
-9tubes of FolkArt metallic (they're little 2oz tubes..around $1.75each at Wal-Mart art/craft section). You'll only want two of them to be "gunmetal grey" FolkArt metallic..the other seven should be some "Pearl" metallic FolkArt and "Sterlingsilver" metallic FolkArt. That'll make a medium-grey screen with higher gain and a brighter image.
-18oz matte polyurethane (a quart of matte Varethane poly is ~$12 at HomeDepot)
-17oz-18oz water

So the mix will cost around $30 altogether, plus ~$10 for the gallon of flat-white and your panel filling/smoothing supplies.

You can also mix a little of the inexpensive white paint half'n'half (or 2parts paint with 1part water if the paint is already kinda thin) with some water to test how well your sprayer handles really thin paint. You'll be looking for it to lay out a pretty smooth freckled mist onto the surface without coughing/sputtering or periodically sneezing big globs of paint.
If the sprayer doesn't have an adjustment/setting that behaves with thin paint, the least expensive sprayers that work well cost around $40-$50...I'm not sure if that would even be an option though.

Did you already read about spraying duster-coats/multiple fast light coatings?
I have a Wagner Power Stainer I hope to use for this project. If it doesn't cut it I'll probably spring for an earlex. I have read that the Wagner sprayer requires many more duster coats to get a good result. Thank you for all your help.
Brian Gibson is offline  
post #83 of 289 Old 09-23-2017, 02:17 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Paint mix

Hello Ftoast,

I was really impressed by the pics from your paint mix. So I decided to do it like so. I've ordered FA Gunmetal Grey Metallic from the USA (I'm from Germany). Poly Matte is not very popular in Germany, so I had not many options. So I've bought this: https://www.amazon.de/Möbellack-Grun...llack+klarlack
This is also water based Polyurethane mat paint.

I've mixed FA with Poly Matte 1:1, and painted the 110" Screen with a paint roller.

The Result was good and bad.
Black level was amazing, also the contrast. But in bright scenes you can see some stripes from the paint roller. Also, the paint mix was not very homogeneous. While drying, the Poly Matte and FA separates from each other.



Sadly I can't live with the result, so I need to order again FA and Poly matte. This time I want to use a good paint sprayer, and I want to use a different Poly Matte.
Can you please advice which Poly Matte is a good choice for this project?

Maybe this? https://www.amazon.com/RUST-OLEUM-26.../dp/B00RZYE01O
Unfortunately I couldn't find a dealer who delivers to Germany.

Thank you very much in advanced, and thanks for your inspiration. GOOD JOB man!

Regards,
Roman
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.PNG
Views:	573
Size:	1.36 MB
ID:	2286746   Click image for larger version

Name:	2.PNG
Views:	186
Size:	3.09 MB
ID:	2286748  
edelatze_roman is offline  
post #84 of 289 Old 09-23-2017, 02:43 AM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,242
Mentioned: 282 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3791 Post(s)
Liked: 1760
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
Without adding Water to assist in the mixing of the two disparate materials (Paint / Poly) and then applying the mix properly (spraying), your effort was almost assuredly doomed to failure.

Also, a 50/50 mix is far too much. 70/30 Paint to Poly is the most that should be attempted, and that ratio should use another 20% Water to Mix ratio, combined with a very thorough stirring. "VERY THOROUGH"...but at a slow speed so as to not create too many air bubbles. Then it should be strained through a Nylon Bag Filter.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
MississippiMan is online now  
post #85 of 289 Old 09-23-2017, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Also, a 50/50 mix is far too much. 70/30 Paint to Poly is the most that should be attempted, and that ratio should use another 20% Water to Mix ratio, combined with a very thorough stirring.
Neat. Last time I asked you said you never bothered to experiment with these mixes..I'm glad to hear that must've changed.
In what way did your results using a 50/50 mix of FolkArt Gunmetal metallic and matte poly and water lead you to believe that was too much poly?
How did the 70/30/20 gunmetal/poly/water mix you suggested handle spraying while being that thick?..was that through your normal sprayer rig?

I disagree with your suggested mix ratios because I didn't notice a benefit to 70/30 over 50/50 gunmetal/poly when I tried it and I prefer the thinner 2:1 mix/water ratio instead of your suggested 4:1 mix/water ratio because it dries exceptionally smooth, BUT I'm glad to hear you finally experimenting with other paints again.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 09-23-2017 at 07:01 AM.
Ftoast is offline  
post #86 of 289 Old 09-23-2017, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by edelatze_roman View Post
Hello Ftoast,

I was really impressed by the pics from your paint mix. So I decided to do it like so. I've ordered FA Gunmetal Grey Metallic from the USA (I'm from Germany). Poly Matte is not very popular in Germany, so I had not many options. So I've bought this: https://www.amazon.de/Möbellack-Grun...llack+klarlack
This is also water based Polyurethane mat paint.

I've mixed FA with Poly Matte 1:1, and painted the 110" Screen with a paint roller.

The Result was good and bad.
Black level was amazing, also the contrast. But in bright scenes you can see some stripes from the paint roller. Also, the paint mix was not very homogeneous. While drying, the Poly Matte and FA separates from each other.



Sadly I can't live with the result, so I need to order again FA and Poly matte. This time I want to use a good paint sprayer, and I want to use a different Poly Matte.
Can you please advice which Poly Matte is a good choice for this project?

Maybe this? https://www.amazon.com/RUST-OLEUM-26.../dp/B00RZYE01O
Unfortunately I couldn't find a dealer who delivers to Germany.

Thank you very much in advanced, and thanks for your inspiration. GOOD JOB man!

Regards,
Roman
With a sprayer that can handle very thin/watery paint mixes, I think that matte varnish you're using might be perfectly good.
The matte poly you linked looks great, but if getting it is very difficult you might first want to test spraying a small amount of gunmetal and your current varnish and water.

With my sprayer (little, cheap, Wagner Opti-Stain) I mix 1:1:1 gunmetal+poly+water and spray a fast, dusting which covers the while panel in tiny dusty freckles...let it dry, then another dusting, let it dry and keep repeating.
If sprayed too thickly/too much, the paint can run or drip and look terrible.
This quick dusting dries really fast, so the paint doesn't separate.
It also dries really smooth, so bright scenes don't have lines or marks.

I agree that straining the watery mix through a nylon paint filter before putting it into the sprayer is good to do.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #87 of 289 Old 10-11-2017, 11:29 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hi Folks,

I've now repainted the screen with a sprayer (Bosh PFS 3000-2). The vertical lines are gone, and I have a nice clean picture.
Now the surface is a little bit more rough as before. Maybe this leads in a little bit more hotspotting and "glitter" effect.
However, I love the black levels... its almost like an 110" OLED TV, for under 600 bucks ;-)

Regards,
Roman
edelatze_roman is offline  
post #88 of 289 Old 10-11-2017, 11:50 AM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,242
Mentioned: 282 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3791 Post(s)
Liked: 1760
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
Roman,

Yeah? But with what mix? Glad your happier now, but we are essentially left hangin' without any real information.

Ante up!

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
MississippiMan is online now  
post #89 of 289 Old 10-11-2017, 02:44 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Hi,

I followed the advice from Ftoast, and used 1:1:1 (FA: Poly Matte: Water). I sprayed the mix 4 times, and used 6 little 2oz bottles from FA Gunmetal gray metallic.
Do you need any further information?

I've uploaded some pictures in the worst conditions, all lights on, and spotted to the screen. Some photos are with flash light. In the middle of the screen is a white sheet of paper for reference.


no stripes anymore

no stripes anymore (compare with old picture)







using 30W spotlight and flashlight from the camera



using 30W spotlight


Regards,
Roman

Last edited by edelatze_roman; 10-11-2017 at 02:49 PM.
edelatze_roman is offline  
post #90 of 289 Old 10-11-2017, 09:37 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by edelatze_roman View Post
Hi,
I followed the advice from Ftoast, and used 1:1:1 (FA: Poly Matte: Water). I sprayed the mix 4 times, and used 6 little 2oz bottles from FA Gunmetal gray metallic.
Do you need any further information?

I've uploaded some pictures in the worst conditions, all lights on, and spotted to the screen. Some photos are with flash light. In the middle of the screen is a white sheet of paper for reference.
no stripes anymore
Did you already mention what projector you're using? I'd like to know your projector brand and model and its distance back from your screen if you don't mind sharing all that too.
Thanks for the collection of pictures and descriptions.

Edit:
I love your screen stand and backlight; they look really well done.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 10-11-2017 at 10:11 PM.
Ftoast is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Screen Section

Tags
alr , black , paint , screen

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off