AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/)
-   DIY Screen Section (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-diy-screen-section/)
-   -   Yet another question about paint for a screen (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-diy-screen-section/2706705-yet-another-question-about-paint-screen.html)

pritesh0381 01-07-2017 12:09 PM

Yet another question about paint for a screen
 
Hi all,

I recently bought a BENQ HT2050 projector for my basement that we are getting finished. I have decided after much debate to take a leap of faith by going with the Behr Silver Screen paint for my projection screen. I know this has been a hot topic through the forum. However, my brother in law used it and imo, I thought it looked amazing.

The one thing my brother in law mention was he got the eggshell sheen and told me that there is some glare/reflection from it, so I should go with a flat or matte finish. Call me dumb if you like, but I am new to this. From a projection stand point, please help me with the sheen. What would be the difference between a flat vs matte finish?

Here is what my basement config will be.

There will be some ambient light, cause we will host parties, but the area around the project will be somewhat dark, but think like having a small lamp around there, that is likely the amount of ambient lighting that will be there.

We just got the drywall up, so the next step is to get the paint crew in to apply a primer and two coats of paint.

Btw, the screen size is approx 110" - 114", the projector will be mounted about 11ft away from the wall.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Other thing, I don't mind other suggestion to paint choice. I am staying away from the infamous article about SW. My Brother-in-law tried it and hated it, then ended up with behr. I would love to buy a screen, but that is out of my budget at the moment, maybe next year we may get one...

Thanks in advance.

MississippiMan 01-07-2017 02:39 PM

Between Flat & Matte, Matte has just the barest amount of a sheen, but nothing like Eggshell, or the infamous "Satin" suggested by "PC"

The best type paint to use is an Interior Flat or Matte Enamel. I suggest the Glidden Diamond Base 2 since your going to be at HD and using the Silver Screen Tint.

About Silver Screen. Some thorough vetting by people with Colormeter tech has determined it to be very close to a Neutral Gray...leastwise close enough to satisfy all but those who demand perfection as far as Neutrality.

The real issue with Silver Screen is that it requires enough Lumen delivered to the screen to keep the image looking vibrant. By itself it is a "under 1.0 gain" paint. However using it with the 2050 @ 114" diagonal certainly applies if you run that PJ in normal Lamp mode.

An old standby as to improving the Gain of SS is to add 1/3 to Paint Volume of RustOleum White Pearl (2:1 SS to Pearl) and 1/4 of / to that total of a Clear Flat or Matte "Water Based" Polyurethane (Minwax or Varathane)

Bam.....you suddenly have a mix that is markedly better than basic SS alone can ever aspire to be...for an additional investment of about $35.00 above the SS alone.

Even simpler? Just add 1/3 to volume of the Polyurethane. Even by just doing that there will be a noticeable improvement.

pritesh0381 01-07-2017 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MississippiMan (Post 49669657)
Between Flat & Matte, Matte has just the barest amount of a sheen, but nothing like Eggshell, or the infamous "Satin" suggested by "PC"

The best type paint to use is an Interior Flat or Matte Enamel. I suggest the Glidden Diamond Base 2 since your going to be at HD and using the Silver Screen Tint.

About Silver Screen. Some thorough vetting by people with Colormeter tech has determined it to be very close to a Neutral Gray...leastwise close enough to satisfy all but those who demand perfection as far as Neutrality.

The real issue with Silver Screen is that it requires enough Lumen delivered to the screen to keep the image looking vibrant. By itself it is a "under 1.0 gain" paint. However using it with the 2050 @ 114" diagonal certainly applies if you run that PJ in normal Lamp mode.

An old standby as to improving the Gain of SS is to add 1/3 to Paint Volume of RustOleum White Pearl (2:1 SS to Pearl) and 1/4 of / to that total of a Clear Flat or Matte "Water Based" Polyurethane (Minwax or Varathane)

Bam.....you suddenly have a mix that is markedly better than basic SS alone can ever aspire to be...for an additional investment of about $35.00 above the SS alone.

Even simpler? Just add 1/3 to volume of the Polyurethane. Even by just doing that there will be a noticeable improvement.


@MississippiMan , you are the man and thank you for all knowledge you have shared in other posts and this. Thank you so much for all the info. I will definitely tell the HD guys to make the SS in Glidden Diamond Base 2. Just want to make sure I understand what you're saying when you said,
Quote:

However using it with the 2050 @ 114" diagonal certainly applies if you run that PJ in normal Lamp mode.
Are you saying that if I am running my projector in non-eco mode, I am fine?

Lastly, I am no expert when it comes to mixing, but so I understand what your saying... I will be getting a gallon of SS, so I should mix in 0.5 gallons of RustOleum White Pearl? Now that I have 1.5 gallons of paint, I would need to mix in 3/8 of a gallon (48oz) of Polyurethane? Is that correct?

I don't expect my painter's crew to speak any English (sorry, I am not trying to offending anyone, i have just had multiple instances of that, so communication is going to be key. If I can mix everything for them, I can just say, "here you go, use this for this wall.")

MississippiMan 01-07-2017 06:30 PM

Wow...that would be a lot of Paint for a 114" diagonal screen!

Let me narrow it down to exact amounts.....

While you may be purchasing the Glidden by the Gallon...you will not use all that in the mix as suggested. You will however tint the entire Gallon.

You will want to purchase a extra 1 Gallon Can w/ Pour Lid.
Buy 1 Quart of RustOleum White Pearl...or Sea Shell (Lowes*)
*( I've used the Sea Shell and it is a viable substitute in the proverbial pinch when used in a Gray Mix )
Buy 1 Quart of Water Based Matte Polyurethane (Varathane or Minwax)

Pour 2 Quarts of the Glidden/SS into the new Can.
Pour 21 Oz Pearl into the New Can
Pour 21 Oz of Polyurethane into the New Can

Total now in the New Can 3.3 Quarts

Stir Mix well using a Drill Powered Mixer on slow speed.

The mix should be ready to Roll if that's your intention. Be sure to use a Low Nap Roller (1/4" preferably...3/8" at most. ) Roll over a White Primed surface.

If you want to / are going to Spray, add 20 Oz of Filtered or Distilled Water. Again...still well, but slowly. Then strain into a clean container with a Nylon Mesh Bag Filter

That would bring you up to 1 Gallon.

Oh yeah...the Mix as stated will easily allow you to use Low Lamp / Econo mode. Plain 'ol SS is what would require you to use Normal Lamp Mode.

pritesh0381 01-07-2017 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MississippiMan (Post 49676297)
Wow...that would be a lot of Paint for a 114" diagonal screen!

Let me narrow it down to exact amounts.....

While you may be purchasing the Glidden by the Gallon...you will not use all that in the mix as suggested. You will however tint the entire Gallon.

You will want to purchase a extra 1 Gallon Can w/ Pour Lid.
Buy 1 Quart of RustOleum White Pearl...or Sea Shell (Lowes*)
*( I've used the Sea Shell and it is a viable substitute in the proverbial pinch when used in a Gray Mix )
Buy 1 Quart of Water Based Matte Polyurethane (Varathane or Minwax)

Pour 2 Quarts of the Glidden/SS into the new Can.
Pour 21 Oz Pearl into the New Can
Pour 21 Oz of Polyurethane into the New Can

Total now in the New Can 3.3 Quarts

Stir Mix well using a Drill Powered Mixer on slow speed.

The mix should be ready to Roll if that's your intention. Be sure to use a Low Nap Roller (1/4" preferably...3/8" at most. ) Roll over a White Primed surface.

If you want to / are going to Spray, add 20 Oz of Filtered or Distilled Water. Again...still well, but slowly. Then strain into a clean container with a Nylon Mesh Bag Filter

That would bring you up to 1 Gallon.

Oh yeah...the Mix as stated will easily allow you to use Low Lamp / Econo mode. Plain 'ol SS is what would require you to use Normal Lamp Mode.

Thank you again for all the help, @MississippiMan . The only reason why I thought I needed a gallon of SS is because we were planning on painting that whole wall that color. The wall that I am going to be projecting to will house two ,36" wide, open bookcases, one on each end. The wife liked the idea of painting the whole wall that colors so that the back of the bookcase would make the front pop.

From what the painter told me, his crew will be using a spray to apply the paint.

MississippiMan 01-08-2017 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pritesh0381 (Post 49680665)
Thank you again for all the help, @MississippiMan . The only reason why I thought I needed a gallon of SS is because we were planning on painting that whole wall that color. The wall that I am going to be projecting to will house two ,36" wide, open bookcases, one on each end. The wife liked the idea of painting the whole wall that colors so that the back of the bookcase would make the front pop.

From what the painter told me, his crew will be using a spray to apply the paint.

Well as the Emerald City Gatekeeper said; "That's a Horse of a different color!"

In the case of painting the entire wall (...of which I really do not know the dimensions....) the yes...you will use the Following measurements.


64 Oz RustOleum Pearl or Sea Shell ($22.00 ea @ Lowes)

1 Gallon Glidden Diamond tinted with Behr's Silver Screen

32 Oz Clear Matte Minwax or Varathane Polyurethane

Power mixed "slowly" but thoroughly.

The Paint should be strained after proper dilution with water to avoid Gun clogging and chunk / chip spewing.

How much thinning with Water will be needed depends upon the Spraying equipment and Needle / Nozzle size used. You do need to tell the Painters you want to smoothest possible finish...so use the smallest Needle / Nozzle they have...so as to get no Run or Sags naturally. That said, they need to apply the paint above in at least 3 light Coats, with widely overlapping Rows if done with High Pressure-Airless Commercial Gear.

The Mix will not be a dark Gray...SS was never all that Dark. It attenuated light reflections because it was always formulated as a simple, Flat Gray. This Mix will have positive Gain characteristics, and a much deeper, more 3D-like image. And as already stated...should allow you to use your PJ on Econo Mode without sacrificing a dynamic, bright image.

pritesh0381 01-08-2017 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MississippiMan (Post 49686473)
Well as the Emerald City Gatekeeper said; "That's a Horse of a different color!"

In the case of painting the entire wall (...of which I really do not know the dimensions....) the yes...you will use the Following measurements.


64 Oz RustOleum Pearl or Sea Shell ($22.00 ea @ Lowes)

1 Gallon Glidden Diamond tinted with Behr's Silver Screen

32 Oz Clear Matte Minwax or Varathane Polyurethane

Power mixed "slowly" but thoroughly.

The Paint should be strained after proper dilution with water to avoid Gun clogging and chunk / chip spewing.

How much thinning with Water will be needed depends upon the Spraying equipment and Needle / Nozzle size used. You do need to tell the Painters you want to smoothest possible finish...so use the smallest Needle / Nozzle they have...so as to get no Run or Sags naturally. That said, they need to apply the paint above in at least 3 light Coats, with widely overlapping Rows if done with High Pressure-Airless Commercial Gear.

The Mix will not be a dark Gray...SS was never all that Dark. It attenuated light reflections because it was always formulated as a simple, Flat Gray. This Mix will have positive Gain characteristics, and a much deeper, more 3D-like image. And as already stated...should allow you to use your PJ on Econo Mode without sacrificing a dynamic, bright image.

@MississippiMan , thanks! Hopefully I can explain that to the painting crew. Last question, once the mix is done and strained, do I need to worry about the mix clumping again. Mainly if the mix is sitting overnight?

Oh, the wall measures 7ft H x 16ft W

MississippiMan 01-08-2017 12:34 PM

While the mix should not "clump", the components can "separate"...at least a bit, so a quick re-stir is usually all that is ever needed.

Almost all such Tinted paints behave in that manner.

Ftoast 01-08-2017 01:10 PM

Pritesh0381, this is directed at MississippiMan as somewhat technical stuff about a few things that may or may not be important to him. You don't need to worry about it, I just want to make sure all the based are covered.

MM, depending on which brand is used; Behr SS flat/matte is ~0.6gain and slightly darker-colored around N8.2 while the Glidden SS flat/matte is a half shade lighter N8.7 with roughly 0.7 gain.
In order to get a mix with noticeably higher gain you'll want a ~30% increase to get a minimum visible difference which would mean aiming for at least 0.9-1.0 gain from the metallic+poly+SS.
Based on the Rustoleum Pearl gain-adding characteristics, even with the least gain-masking SS base you'll need a 2:1 ratio (2parts RustPearl and 1part flat/matte SS) to reach ~0.9-1.0 gain.
Substituting some matte poly in place of some of the flat/matte SS can also increase gain, but simply adding matte poly while keeping a 2:1 or lesser ratio of RustPearl:matteSS will very slightly lower gain.
This IS all missing one possibly important detail though, if the combined gloss-level of all the matte ingredients is enough to keep the mix visibly brighter than my tests using flat-base, that could certainly lead to some extra gain regardless of the ratio of metallic used.

That all said, I also understand that the minimum ~0.7gain of the Glidden SS (possibly higher if the matte gloss makes a visibly difference compared to the flat) will still hit about 15ftL with the ht2050 in its dimmest preset on Eco-Lamp, and the much smaller ratio of metallic should ensure that the paint-job is very forgiving to apply..at that point making the metallic and poly more of a placebo than a gain additive without taking brightness too low.

Either way would work, I want to make sure you're aiming for the one that you meant to.

MississippiMan 01-08-2017 05:03 PM

The real difference comes from making the Mix as translucent as possible, and applying it onto a reflective White base.

In truth 2 Quarts Pearl to 1 Gallon SS Tinted Glidden could not / would not hurt at all....nor would adding in another Quart of Poly. The masking effect of the Tinted Base goes a long way, hence why in most my mixes I never use nearly as much. But just the same, the higher ratio of any metallic can lead to graininess, although not nearly as much so with a Pearlescence.

But...the real difference in it all, either way...is spray applying it correctly. Not too heavily so as to allow the underlying White substrate to have some reflective effect.

That is where the additional Gain boost comes from. The Mix properly applied is not both absorbent AND retentive. The surface is very reflective and also has a ever so slight luminescence that results from the inherent depth of the application. Light that is absorbed into the surface is reflected back as well. The overall effect on Gain is cumulative. But also not excessive because the Matte / Flat characteristics are what keeps things like hot spotting or sheen'ing from becoming issues.

pritesh0381 01-08-2017 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MississippiMan (Post 49694529)
While the mix should not "clump", the components can "separate"...at least a bit, so a quick re-stir is usually all that is ever needed.

Almost all such Tinted paints behave in that manner.

Thanks for all the info. I am going to try the mix you suggested. Hopefully, the paint crew will understand, fingers crossed. I will let you know how it turned out at the end of the week.

pritesh0381 01-09-2017 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MississippiMan (Post 49694529)
While the mix should not "clump", the components can "separate"...at least a bit, so a quick re-stir is usually all that is ever needed.

Almost all such Tinted paints behave in that manner.

@MississippiMan , I was just browsing the HD site and saw that the Rust-Oleum Pearl is in a spray can, is that correct? Or do they have it in a traditional paint can? If you don't mind, can you send me the link to the right one?

The only one I found I can get locally is the sea shell. Is this the correct one (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Rust-Oleum-...-oz/1000043709). The only reason why I ask, is because it says it is a gloss. Since I will be getting a flat version of the Glidden Diamond Base 2 and the flat version of the poly, just wanted to confirm.

MississippiMan 01-09-2017 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pritesh0381 (Post 49712833)
@MississippiMan , I was just browsing the HD site and saw that the Rust-Oleum Pearl is in a spray can, is that correct? Or do they have it in a traditional paint can? If you don't mind, can you send me the link to the right one?

No recommended RustOleum paint comes in a Spray Can

Quote:

The only one I found I can get locally is the sea shell. Is this the correct one (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Rust-Oleum-...-oz/1000043709). The only reason why I ask, is because it says it is a gloss. Since I will be getting a flat version of the Glidden Diamond Base 2 and the flat version of the poly, just wanted to confirm.
All of the Faux Metallic paints, RustOleum or otherwise, are Gloss paints (...but all are Water based...)

Yes...the Sea Shell you found is right. I personally have adjudged it to be a satisfactory substitution for the RustOleum White Pearl shown here:

RustOleum White Pearl


And Holy Cow !!! :eek: I went to Amazon to source a Link for you to see an example and there was the White Pearl...listed as a Prime Purchase, and at the approximate same price as Lowes is now selling the other Metallic s for !!!

Grab some up!!!

pritesh0381 01-09-2017 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MississippiMan (Post 49722617)
No recommended RustOleum paint comes in a Spray Can



All of the Faux Metallic paints, RustOleum or otherwise, are Gloss paints (...but all are Water based...)

Yes...the Sea Shell you found is right. I personally have adjudged it to be a satisfactory substitution for the RustOleum White Pearl shown here:

RustOleum White Pearl


And Holy Cow !!! :eek: I went to Amazon to source a Link for you to see an example and there was the White Pearl...listed as a Prime Purchase, and at the approximate same price as Lowes is now selling the other Metallic s for !!!

Grab some up!!!

@MississippiMan , Thank you. Before you sent me the link to Amazon, I took the plunge and got the white pearl overnighted from amazon. My thought was, well if this isn't the one, I will return it. I am pretty confident that the paint crew isn't going start the actual painting of the walls till Wednesday. If they do start early, I can run to lowes and get the sea shell.

MississippiMan 01-09-2017 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pritesh0381 (Post 49723369)
@MississippiMan , Thank you. Before you sent me the link to Amazon, I took the plunge and got the white pearl overnighted from amazon. My thought was, well if this isn't the one, I will return it. I am pretty confident that the paint crew isn't going start the actual painting of the walls till Wednesday. If they do start early, I can run to lowes and get the sea shell.

There should be only one......and basically, by saving on it from the older $49.95 ea price on Amazon, that made over nighting it a worthy choice.

In checking the various prices on the RustOleum Metallics in my Link, I found the prices were all over the map on the other colors...including the Silver Metallic. Most were still $49.95+
So in the all in all, I suppose for now, those who opt to use the RustOleum White Pearl are getting a price break. I ordered 2 myself, so..............:cool:

pritesh0381 01-09-2017 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MississippiMan (Post 49723633)
Quote:

Originally Posted by pritesh0381 (Post 49723369)
@MississippiMan , Thank you. Before you sent me the link to Amazon, I took the plunge and got the white pearl overnighted from amazon. My thought was, well if this isn't the one, I will return it. I am pretty confident that the paint crew isn't going start the actual painting of the walls till Wednesday. If they do start early, I can run to lowes and get the sea shell.

There should be only one......and basically, by saving on it from the older $49.95 ea price on Amazon, that made over nighting it a worthy choice.

In checking the various prices on the RustOleum Metallics in my Link, I found the prices were all over the map on the other colors...including the Silver Metallic. Most were still $49.95+
So in the all in all, I suppose for now, those who opt to use the RustOleum White Pearl are getting a price break. I ordered 2 myself, so..............https://www.avsforum.com//forum/images/smilies/cool.gif

@MississippiMan , sorry to bug you again. I am here at HD and noticed the don't have a minwax in matte or flat. They do have a a varathane, but the one that is labeled clear matte is listed as triple thick poly. They have a regular one that say matte, but doesn't say that it is clear. Which would I get? I forgot to mention, they did have a minwax polycrlyic matte. However, I didn't know the difference between that and the polyurethane.

Also, ran into another issue. The HD guys told me they can't mix the silver screen color in a diamond base 2. Told me the system won't allow it. They told me that I need to use base 2. I told them to apply the tint for the SS to base 2 and he said that the base 2 is used for mid range colors. Please help.

Thanks!

MississippiMan 01-10-2017 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pritesh0381 (Post 49732833)
@MississippiMan , sorry to bug you again. I am here at HD and noticed the don't have a minwax in matte or flat. They do have a a varathane, but the one that is labeled clear matte is listed as triple thick poly. They have a regular one that say matte, but doesn't say that it is clear. Which would I get? I forgot to mention, they did have a minwax polycrlyic matte. However, I didn't know the difference between that and the polyurethane.

No...you do not want "Triple Thick" If HD cannot service you...try Lowes or Tru-Value, or someplace similar.

...........or Amazon again.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....S320_QL65_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....S320_QL65_.jpg

On Amazon .................................................. .............. On Amazon

Quote:

Also, ran into another issue. The HD guys told me they can't mix the silver screen color in a diamond base 2. Told me the system won't allow it. They told me that I need to use base 2. I told them to apply the tint for the SS to base 2 and he said that the base 2 is used for mid range colors. Please help.

Thanks!
Silver Screen is nothing if not a mid-range Color, being rather a lighter, not darker Gray.

But let 'em use what they want. The only difference between the 2 Bases is that one has a bit less base in the Can.

Ftoast 01-10-2017 03:30 AM

Directed at MississippiMan:
Unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like the local HD is selling both a triple-thick matte poly and a standard varathane water-based matte poly which is standard viscosity..with the only apprehension stemming from one being labeled as "clear" while the standard viscosity version isn't.

I can personally vouch for the standard HomeDepot matte verathane (not the triple thick) being clear despite lacking a "clear" label on the front.
Hopefully that helps.

pritesh0381 01-10-2017 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ftoast (Post 49747393)
Directed at MississippiMan:
Unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like the local HD is selling both a triple-thick matte poly and a standard varathane water-based matte poly which is standard viscosity..with the only apprehension stemming from one being labeled as "clear" while the standard viscosity version isn't.

I can personally vouch for the standard HomeDepot matte verathane (not the triple thick) being clear despite lacking a "clear" label on the front.
Hopefully that helps.

These are the two Varathane products I saw at HD.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Varathane-1-qt-Matte-Soft-Touch-Polyurethane-266233/203331997

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Varathane-1-qt-Matte-Triple-Thick-Polyurethane-316162/300494693

pritesh0381 01-10-2017 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MississippiMan (Post 49746801)
No...you do not want "Triple Thick" If HD cannot service you...try Lowes or Tru-Value, or someplace similar.

...........or Amazon again.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....S320_QL65_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....S320_QL65_.jpg

On Amazon .................................................. .............. On Amazon

Silver Screen is nothing if not a mid-range Color, being rather a lighter, not darker Gray.

But let 'em use what they want. The only difference between the 2 Bases is that one has a bit less base in the Can.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

In my area Lowe's and HD seemed to have carried the same poly. I will go to the site and check it out. Here is the Varathane product that didn't have the clear label on it which was why I hassitated.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Varathane-1-qt-Matte-Soft-Touch-Polyurethane-266233/203331997

Ftoast 01-10-2017 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pritesh0381 (Post 49747769)
Here is the Varathane product that didn't have the clear label on it which was why I hassitated.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Varathane...6233/203331997

That's exactly the one I've been using with great success.

pritesh0381 01-10-2017 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ftoast (Post 49748025)
That's exactly the one I've been using with great success.

Awesome! I will give it a shot. I get my metallic paint today. I don't know what I was thinking yesterday, i should have ordered two based on MM's recipe for mixing a gallon's worth. But I think the first recipe MM sent me where it makes a gallon of the solution should be enough to cover my wall.

If not, I will tell the painters to paint the back part of the bookcases white, like I really wanted. But the wife wanted more depth...

MississippiMan 01-10-2017 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pritesh0381 (Post 49749393)
Awesome! I will give it a shot. I get my metallic paint today. I don't know what I was thinking yesterday, i should have ordered two based on MM's recipe for mixing a gallon's worth. But I think the first recipe MM sent me where it makes a gallon of the solution should be enough to cover my wall.

If not, I will tell the painters to paint the back part of the bookcases white, like I really wanted. But the wife wanted more depth...

Well ya know, if one variety states "Clear" and the other does not, you can be certain the one that does not will dry to a milky hue. That is the nature of Polyurethanes.

Now some might not see where there is /' should be a difference, but the primary use for Poly is to both Thin and make "deeper" the inherent absorbancy / reflectivity of a Mix. Common sense should lead one to believe that something Milky won't be as reflective as something Clear.

Here's a plainly stated fact. The Varathane Clear Matte is exactly what we use when we make up large batches of Black Flame, only we use it in 5 Gallon increments. I've said repeatedly that there are reasons why we use the specific ingredients we do...they all combine to give optimal performance. The fact that others substitute some things due to personal preference, price, or general availability does not mean those choices are either optimal or even acceptable. Always over the years there have been those who report back about their having some types or kinds of issues...usually less Gain in combination with diffusion characteristics...and 99% of the time it's because of substitutions.

pritesh0381, I'd both wait to acquire the correct Poly ingredients as well as go with the "Entire Wall" idea. Your Wife has it right....having the rear background of each bookcase match the Screen Wall area will avoid your having a disparately bright area behind whatever you have in those Book Cases. Just consider seeing two sides having patchy areas of White. It will not look as uniform nor have the color co0ntinuity that a matching Gray background will have.

Ftoast 01-10-2017 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MississippiMan (Post 49749729)
Well ya know, if one variety states "Clear" and the other does not, you can be certain the one that does not will dry to a milky hue. That is the nature of Polyurethanes.

This particular matte poly dries clear, not milky in the least.
Please don't say things like "you can be certain" if you're simply guessing.

That said, as long as waiting for a particular online poly (and more metallic) doesn't lead to trouble with the painters' timetable, I don't see the harm.

pritesh0381 01-10-2017 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MississippiMan (Post 49749729)
Well ya know, if one variety states "Clear" and the other does not, you can be certain the one that does not will dry to a milky hue. That is the nature of Polyurethanes.

Now some might not see where there is /' should be a difference, but the primary use for Poly is to both Thin and make "deeper" the inherent absorbancy / reflectivity of a Mix. Common sense should lead one to believe that something Milky won't be as reflective as something Clear.

Here's a plainly stated fact. The Varathane Clear Matte is exactly what we use when we make up large batches of Black Flame, only we use it in 5 Gallon increments. I've said repeatedly that there are reasons why we use the specific ingredients we do...they all combine to give optimal performance. The fact that others substitute some things due to personal preference, price, or general availability does not mean those choices are either optimal or even acceptable. Always over the years there have been those who report back about their having some types or kinds of issues...usually less Gain in combination with diffusion characteristics...and 99% of the time it's because of substitutions.

pritesh0381, I'd both wait to acquire the correct Poly ingredients as well as go with the "Entire Wall" idea. Your Wife has it right....having the rear background of each bookcase match the Screen Wall area will avoid your having a disparately bright area behind whatever you have in those Book Cases. Just consider seeing two sides having patchy areas of White. It will not look as uniform nor have the color co0ntinuity that a matching Gray background will have.

Thanks @MississippiMan . I will do just that. I did a quick check on the Clear Matte link, amazon seems to be on back order. I am still trying to find another site that does overnight shipping. The Rust-Oleum product is available, however it states the same thing that folks are saying about the varathane link I had provided, it is milky white in the can, but dries clear. What are your thoughts on the Rust-Oleum product?

gifty74 01-10-2017 09:32 AM

Particularly interested in this thread as I too am a relatively new owner of a HT2050 and also painted on my screen (thread link, thread link). I went with a similar flat base (Walmart's Colorplace brand) and mixed that 2:1 with the Rustoleum Silver Metallic, no other additions. Initially I was super stoked that a setup that simple could produce an image that natural looking to me, but since I've switched the pj from 'Normal' to 'Smart Eco' mode and now I'm thinking this lower gain color is negatively affecting the color and overall 'pop'. Now on standard TV watching (Directv which is not great but what I have for live sports, etc) I'm noticing that the image overall is a little dull & 'boring'. I haven't switched back to 'Normal' yet and would prefer to keep it on 'Smart Eco' to extend the bulb life. Not to hijack this thread, but wondering from MM and Ftoast (who helped me on my initial mix), would this one give me more gain and allow me to get better color reproduction in Smart Eco? If anything, I'd say my 2:1 mix is definitely a dark grey. With ambient during the afternoon even on this dark grey the image gets washed out pretty good, so looking at getting some blackout curtains anyway, so going for a higher gain screen does not worry me too much.

Also, do I need the polyurethane addition if I'm rolling it on? I had good luck rolling on the first screen.

Ftoast 01-10-2017 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gifty74 (Post 49753673)
Particularly interested in this thread as I too am a relatively new owner of a HT2050 and also painted on my screen (thread link, thread link). I went with a similar flat base (Walmart's Colorplace brand) and mixed that 2:1 with the Rustoleum Silver Metallic, no other additions. Initially I was super stoked that a setup that simple could produce an image that natural looking to me, but since I've switched the pj from 'Normal' to 'Smart Eco' mode and now I'm thinking this lower gain color is negatively affecting the color and overall 'pop'. Now on standard TV watching (Directv which is not great but what I have for live sports, etc) I'm noticing that the image overall is a little dull & 'boring'. I haven't switched back to 'Normal' yet and would prefer to keep it on 'Smart Eco' to extend the bulb life. Not to hijack this thread, but wondering from MM and Ftoast (who helped me on my initial mix), would this one give me more gain and allow me to get better color reproduction in Smart Eco? If anything, I'd say my 2:1 mix is definitely a dark grey. With ambient during the afternoon even on this dark grey the image gets washed out pretty good, so looking at getting some blackout curtains anyway, so going for a higher gain screen does not worry me too much.

The mix in this thread should be a little lighter-colored than yours but a bit lower-gain.

If you like your current mix's shade of grey but want a brighter image you can replace up to nearly half of the ColorPlace flat Light-Base with Rustoleum metallic Pearl to increase gain while keeping the screen about as dark-colored.

If you'd prefer a lighter-colored mix that's overall brighter/higher-gain you have a couple easy options:
replace some of the ColorPlace Light-Base and half of the rustSS metallic with Rustoleum Pearl metallic,
or
Mix Rustoleum Pearl metallic with ColorPlace flat tinted-"Universal Grey" (or the slightly darker "Pebble Grey") at a ratio of 3parts-4parts Rustoleum metallic Pearl and 1part ColorPlace flat.

That last option, mixing Rustoleum pearl metallic with light-grey ColorPlace flat is what I'd recommend most for a rolled-on mix.

pritesh0381 01-10-2017 10:31 AM

@Ftoast and @MississippiMan, is Minwax polycrylic the same thing as the water based polyurethane and is it a viable solution?

Ftoast 01-10-2017 11:18 AM

The polycrylic is another term for water-based polyurethane, but you'll still need to make sure it's matte instead of satin or other higher gloss-levels (you want matte finish) and like Mississippi already mentioned, you don't really want triple-thick/increased viscosity either since part of the benefit of using poly is how it helps thin your mix for spraying.. So those are a couple things to keep a lookout for.

I would still like to test some triple-thick matte poly at some point to see how it truly compares in practice.

pb_maxxx 01-10-2017 12:22 PM

...the 2 water based polys that I exclusively use are the Rustoleum Ultimate Matte referenced in post 17 and Minwax Polyacrylic Matte.

The latter just came out in Matte within the past 6 months.

Lowes used to carry Rustoleum for about $12... but over the past year they switched to Minwax...for $17 a quart.

Many Wal-Mart s are now carrying the Minwax Polyacrylic Matte for about $13.

......

...and just to clarify any confusion...the poly is not used directly to increase gain...however, it's clarity will indirectly allow the metallics to retain and reflect their maximum gain. Secondly, it creates a separation/space from metallic to metallic which allows light to bounce from metallic to metallic...therefore lessening the screens angular reflectivity(ie improved viewing cone)...which is due to the metallic flakes being flat plalettes. Additionally, spraying which we highly recommend, atomizes the metallic flakes in a random manner instead of rolling them flat also improves viewing cone.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:49 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.