painting a retractable screen with a DIY ALR screen paint - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 19 Old 01-08-2017, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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painting a retractable screen with a DIY ALR screen paint

Ive been using my DIY painted wall for a little over a year and it has performed pretty well. I have decided to reconfigure my living room area to point my projector at a giant window. Currently I have a grey colored window covering, that was installed when I purchased the house, is serving as a temporary screen solution (its terrible during the day and only passable during the night). Im looking at putting a retractable screen there on a budget. I would say that it is rare that I watch tv during the daytime anyway, but if I do, I wonder if painting the screen is a possibility, ever been done before, or is just a stupid idea.

here is a link to a screen for sale nearby that is nice and cheap
http://www.frys.com/product/6745415?...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

I Would love to hear from the DIY gurus MississippiMan and Ftoast.
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post #2 of 19 Old 01-08-2017, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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using the search tool

So I was reading more posts about painting a retractable screen, and it looks to be definitely feasible. I don't see many posts lately about doing such a thing so Im wondering, does it hold up to retracting over time? If I buy a non-tabtension screen, do I need to consider doing a less ALR type of screen due to the screen not being perfectly flat?
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post #3 of 19 Old 01-08-2017, 02:35 PM
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The "Old" Guru here.........

Here is a complete Build Link:

Painting onto a 106" Tab-Tensioned" Screen w/Silver Fire
v2.5 4.0

...that shows prep- Painting- as well as numerous screen shots in various lighting....from No to Low to Stupidly so.

It is one of several I have done. The largest of which...an Elite VMax CineWhite 135"er that was non-Tab Tensioned...has been in use now for almost 13 years.

No Flaking....no Fading...no Curling.

The Tab Tensioned one featured in the Link underwent a couple years worth of extracting / retracting during a 21 day Home Show (9-7 daily)

The Silver Fire / Black Flame formulas are ideally suited for such purposes. Besides their exemplary ALR performance...which is fully adjustable to the need at hand, they are extremely flexible while also being thinly applied.

As far as flatness...or the lack of such being an issue, their is a simple solution to that. Purchase your Screen from a Amazon Prime Vendor...and if it is not Flat when you get it...send it back.

No excuses now......get'ter dun!
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post #4 of 19 Old 01-08-2017, 02:46 PM
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BTW....Frys does have a excellent 30 Day return Policy as well...if you keep the original packaging.

Inland will replace any defective Screen during it's 1 year Warranty period (...after 30 Days) but you must also ship in the original Packiaging and you must pay Return Shipping via FedEx or UPS "ONLY" which pretty much rules out most people even bothering to do so.

So be advised.
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post #5 of 19 Old 01-08-2017, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Sweet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
The "Old" Guru here.........

Here is a complete Build Link:

Painting onto a 106" Tab-Tensioned" Screen w/Silver Fire
v2.5 4.0

...that shows prep- Painting- as well as numerous screen shots in various lighting....from No to Low to Stupidly so.

It is one of several I have done. The largest of which...an Elite VMax CineWhite 135"er that was non-Tab Tensioned...has been in use now for almost 13 years.

No Flaking....no Fading...no Curling.

The Tab Tensioned one featured in the Link underwent a couple years worth of extracting / retracting during a 21 day Home Show (9-7 daily)
Really glad to hear that its still working after all these years. Exactly what I was hoping you would say.

Do you have any updates on an inexpensive spray rig MississippiMan? Im not gonna even attempt to roll a brand new screen.

Too bad my projector started failing the last couple weeks. Last time I buy a refurbished Benq. Lasted me about 15 months. Im thinking about stepping up big time to a Sony. Hopefully I can hold out until the super bowl TV promotions startup!
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post #6 of 19 Old 01-08-2017, 03:11 PM
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If killer ambient light performance is desired / needed, you could spray on a aggressively dark Mix and use a really affordable, high lumen 1080p DLP PJ similar to the one feature in the aforementioned Thread.

If you go with something more expensive, but not really a lot more, you can still keep things low cost by choosing a Epson 3500. Personally, unless you really have your heart set on a SONY, I'd not suggest that. Primarily because if ALR is needed, it's going to be weaker in the Lumen department than what you really will be wanting.

Spray Gun-wise....it all depends upon what is considered to be "inexpensive".
The Earlex HV3500 w/optional 1.0 mm tip would be absolutely ideal. It's a rig that can paint a Room-Car-House Trim or Fence after the Screen is a done deal But it costs about 2x what the truly "budget HVLP" Guns cost...but they don't have the right Tips either so......

Your saving at least $2-300 on your Screen...I'd not scrimp on an extra $60-$75.00 on the right Gun to do the absolute best job.

You've got a PM waiting.......

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post #7 of 19 Old 01-08-2017, 03:41 PM
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Cheapest Gun that would "get you by" is this:

El' Cheapo
It does come with a 1.0 mm Tip, but it is of limited use. Pretty darn inexpensive though....

Then there is an old Stand by.....

Wagner
Actually, the Wagner Gun above is the same one I used all those years ago on the 135"er. But I've moved on to more refined sprayers.

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post #8 of 19 Old 01-09-2017, 05:38 AM
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I haven't had any trouble with mixes being flexed or rolled up either and have seen other mixes on YouTube (full DIY, not sold) used successfully on roll-up screens.

I believe the Sony would be an excellent choice if you're shopping in the $1500-$2000 range since it can get very bright (1400-1700 accurate lumens) when you need to fight some ambient light and its contrast is unbeatable (until you get into the $3000+ area where the cheaper JVC's wait patiently) which means your dark-time/primary viewing will look great.

I've had good results using a cheap Wagner Opti-Stain (a lightweight plastic gun around $40-$50), so I can only believe an even nicer gun that's still setup for very thin paint should perform even better!
The nicer guns will also let you swap parts/settings and be able to spray unthinned paint for general projects..my cheap Wagner Opti-Stain will only handle thinner stuff; stains, poly, etc, and the occasional screen.
Looks like the Wagner in MississippiMan's link is even less at ~$35!

Were you looking specifically at the 120" screen-size?
Will your daytime viewing have to deal with strong sunlight, or will there at least be some thin curtains filtering the light down a bit?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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post #9 of 19 Old 01-09-2017, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I haven't had any trouble with mixes being flexed or rolled up either and have seen other mixes on YouTube (full DIY, not sold) used successfully on roll-up screens.
Yeah but......I haven't seen where any of them have stood the test of time to the tune of a decade or more...or be subject to the degree of use amounting to literally hundreds of cycles of extraction / retraction.

Nor have any been truly ALR w/Gain oriented. I'm glad you and so many others have taken up the effort to expand on the use of Painted Retract'ables, but in the short & long run, it would be advisable to temper and direct advice and suggestions toward known values & performance.

DIY or Sold is not the issue...it's the Paint make-up and application points that really matter.

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post #10 of 19 Old 01-09-2017, 12:13 PM
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The DIY mixes I'm talking about have been under curling/folding torture tests for a number of years, and almost every single one is true ALR oriented with added gain and known performance.

The screen itself will start to develope lines/wrinkles long before the paint has issues.

DIY can be very helpful if the added work of collecting your own ingredients isn't a problem. A $25 mix that matches and exceeds sold premade options is hard not to like.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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post #11 of 19 Old 01-09-2017, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
The DIY mixes I'm talking about have been under curling/folding torture tests for a number of years, and almost every single one is true ALR oriented with added gain and known performance.
Well I gotta call ya out on that.
What mixes? Where at? Whose done such "Torture Tests"? A "number of years?" (...that says next to nothing...)

There hasn't been that many "ALR DIY" mixes in existence for long enough for the statement above to hold up to scrutiny. Virtually no other mixes have been adaquately suited for spraying onto Retractable Screens...if there were...we'd have seen far more examples out there long ago. And with that said....certainly we have seen none with any "updates" as to continual use.

I've been around for quite sometime ya know...and frankly, on this Forum....painting anything onto "Roll-Ups" just wasn't happening with any degree of success let alone frequency before I started advocating such back in 2003. Before that it was actually advised against and even shunned, and known examples were limited to at best a handful of fingers. The mere fact people would not / could not consider spraying...and knew not the proper technique help rule out such attempts.

As for anywhere else, I simply question the what and wherefore of any ambiguous claim not supported by actual "dated" examples.

We are here to help people realize successful end results to projects they have never attempted before, so any degree of hopeful ambiguity just isn't an option to accept.

This response in not intended to be contentious nor accusatory. I simply cannot agree with your statement's validity to any degree beyond your having made a over-generalized assumption...or have given credit where none is appropriately due.

So..............as Dave used to say; "Where's the Beef?"

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post #12 of 19 Old 01-09-2017, 04:09 PM
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Spoiler!

My mistake for being too general then.
I can only directly/personally account for the RalphLauren mixes, FolkArt mixes and Rustoleum mixes that I've been rolling/folding/scuffing and generally abusing for the last three years of which none have cracked, peeled, or degraded.

Aside from my own tested mixes and yours, I've seen four or more completely independent mixes successfully painted onto roll-up screens in the last couple years. The most memorable to me, however, I believe was rolled on instead of sprayed. To be clear, I am not recommending rolling onto a screen..it was neat to hear that user's latex and acrylic paint-mix worked regardless.
Thinking further on it, I can't recall a single instance of anyone reporting a water-based paint mix that failed on any paintable screen though I do remember a user reporting a particular material gassing bubbles under a coating which may have been a fixed-frame design instead of a roll-up.

I, like you, haven't seen many painted roll-up examples here on AVS.. Neither before nor after 2003.

Ignoring all that, if it makes you feel any better the mix I most highly recommend is a simple combination of flexible acrylic metallic and matte poly...the same style of ingredients that have proven durable for 10+years on roll-up screens in the past.
I overall prefer a ~1:1:1 mix of FolkArt metallic grey/silver and matte poly and water because in addition to its durability, flexibility, brightness and completely customizable color/ALR-aggressiveness, this mix has also proven to be cleaner/clearer-looking and more forgiving than every other mix I've sprayed. And its ingredients add up to ~$25, which combines nicely with an affordable sprayer and inexpensive screen.

There are many other paint options, this just happens to have a particularly strong blend of positive attributes all at once.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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post #13 of 19 Old 01-10-2017, 12:22 AM
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It's not about "feeling better". It's about statements alluding to " curling/folding torture tests for a number of years" (2? Really? That many? ) and to mixes (as in plural) and screens (as in plural)

Your 3 years involvement , almost none of which had to do anything with Retractable Screen painting, makes the comments seem just plain contradictory for contradiction's sake. There have been no "Torture tests"..that speaks of intentionally lowering and retracting literally dozens and dozens of times. And NO YouTube Paint Hawker or End Users has or can say they have done so. Now unless you've gone back through the last 13 years worth of Posts on Screens & DIY Screens, and can say you truly looked and could not find any examples of Retractable Screens having no issues, or any reputed Testing, then a retraction is in order. Your post above went a little ways in that direction, but it didn't touch on "Torture Tests." And the ALR reference? Would t have been so difficult to say that involved your few attempts and those alone? In the least, you should post links to whatever you have / can find to support your comments, as it seems they are fresh in your mind enough to refer to.

I said I haven't seen many...but what was posted, I did see. So although I speak primarily from memory, I can speak with conviction.

For a few years in the early 2000s about a dozen total Members tried to use GOO on Roll Ups. Mixed results would be doing the efforts a kindness. A veritable slew of BOC got rolled, with various paints, and many, if not most suffered Flaking and Cracking....and some hedious Roller Marks too. It was obvious to most everyone than a painted screen rolling up & down wasn't very feasible.

It's time that everyone recognize that until I started painting Cloth screens with mixes heavily laden with Polyurethane and thinned with water and sprayed, it simply wasn't happening with any degree of frequency and with what could be construed as being acceptable results. At very best, some Rolled-on examples using dead-Flat paints made the cut, and precious few of those Gray ALR types.

I do not doubt or dispute any current comment that somebody can (...and has...) spray a Retractable of Fixed Cloth based screen with a proper Mix. Obviously, I myself have done more than a few. I just feel strongly that advice given with good intent, and accepted by an OP, should not be countered with subjective and contradictory comments just so something contradictory can be posted.

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post #14 of 19 Old 01-20-2017, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I went nuts and got a Epson 5040UB from Bestbuy/Magnolia. They got me with the 3 years no interest deal and it was in stock! I love credit!

Then today I get an email from Benq accepting my RMA for my w1070, so I hope i can get that fixed and possibly sell it. Im already in love with the new Epson. It has an amazing picture!

I purchased a 120" manual screen from Fry's and it is already wavy and curling badly at the edges. Im assuming that there really isn't a cure for something like that happening, so I will probably go return it, but I have about 25 days left on the return policy.

What do you guys recommend for a screen that I can paint, that won't curl and get wavy? OR do I have to go tab- tensioned?
the cheapest one i have found is 499 online so Im hoping I just got a defective one.
Thanks for all your help so far
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post #15 of 19 Old 01-21-2017, 08:00 AM
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Well....I would not expect any Non-Tension-ed screen to be totally devoid of edge curling...or waves for that matter. When I went the Tab Tension-ed route, I went with as inexpensive a one I could find, knowing the surface didn't matter, just the tension'ing.

That said, the 135"er I painted back in 2006 was an Elite V-Max Electric w/no Tension. In all the screens I've painted that were non-tension, I found the application of paint helped with Waves by increasing the surface tension. However, on all of 'em, the Black Borders all had some degree of inward curl.

Absolutely, going with a T-T Screen is the most assured route, as it eliminates both the edge curling and wave issues.

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post #16 of 19 Old 01-21-2017, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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So I really started digging into the epson 5040ub and I found that it has lens memory which allows me to save my 120" full screen on one button, and then zoom in to make the widescreen aspect ratio movies even larger on another button. That forced me to rethink the entire motorized screen all together. Now that I can have a much larger image at the push of a button I put the projector facing the wall again.

With that being said, I think I will just focus on making that entire wall an ALR screen. It currently has a mix that I rolled on from Ftoast, and it has worked fairly well. The problem is that I left some roller marks which is clearly visible in bright white scenes, and I really don't care for the color. I hope whatever pain I end up going with is either substantially darker or lighter because right now its just kind of a depressing gray color.

I plan on returning the screen I bought at fry's and using that money towards a spray rig and paint. Ive already got the answer as far as the spray rig so now I need to decide on the paint. Ive been reading other threads on silver fire and am willing to give it a shot. Ive read probably a hundred pages of threads and it seems that it varies a lot over the years, and for peoples specific situations.

Mississippi do you have any recipes off hand that would work well for my situation?
Ive gathered that a good place to start is to spray the surface with Glidden Diamond Flat Paint.

Also, I will have to watch some videos on spraying as this will be my first time.

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post #17 of 19 Old 01-21-2017, 02:15 PM
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Wow! 5040ub ..... an excellent "Lens memory C.H.I. choice!

....and painting the entire wall and going Fame-less so as to get the largest image as possible in both Formats?

Genius !!!!

(...........why didn't I think of that..? )



I recommend these two screen sizes as being close to the Maximum size to consider. Anything less is usually dictated by room size / seating distance / Wall height - Wall width

16:9 > 72" x 128" = 143" diagonal

2.39:1 > 54" x 128" = 139" diagonal

And Paint? I got'cha hooked up.
......Multi-Use Sprayer too, if your lookin'?

Help and instruction at every step of the way? I'm available...if you don't ask...don't complain.
It's all easy...just needs to be done right.

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post #18 of 19 Old 01-21-2017, 02:21 PM
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......and "Oh Yeah..........."

Projector Throw.

To fully capitalize on the degree of ALR performance you can achieve, Throw distance should be at least within the first 15% of the minimum needed to hit both screen sizes "without" employing Lens Memory.

Here is the Throw needed to be considered. 15' / 15'-6"

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post #19 of 19 Old 01-21-2017, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Wow! 5040ub ..... an excellent "Lens memory C.H.I. choice!

....and painting the entire wall and going Fame-less so as to get the largest image as possible in both Formats?

Genius !!!!

(...........why didn't I think of that..? )



I recommend these two screen sizes as being close to the Maximum size to consider. Anything less is usually dictated by room size / seating distance / Wall height - Wall width

16:9 > 72" x 128" = 143" diagonal

2.39:1 > 54" x 128" = 139" diagonal

And Paint? I got'cha hooked up.
......Multi-Use Sprayer too, if your lookin'?

Help and instruction at every step of the way? I'm available...if you don't ask...don't complain.
It's all easy...just needs to be done right.
I didn't even know lens memory was a thing until now. ignorance isn't always bliss

My screen size will be at 120" at 16x9 so I should be good. ill pm you for the paint mix
thanks!!
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