Mini Review of the DEA Dark Energy Abyss material - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 41 Old 03-27-2017, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Mini Review of the DEA Dark Energy Abyss material

I'll try to update this with on-axis and off-axis side-by-side comparison shots between the DEA and a few other commercial materials as well as a couple DIY mixes.


-The DarkEnergyAbyss0.9 material appears to land around 0.9gain peak, so I'm happy to see more companies leaning toward the conservative side of the truth rather than exaggerating peak-gain claims.

-Its surface can be as dark as an N3.8-N4 black/grey (appearing around 0.10-0.13gain) when light is hitting it from far off-axis (above/below and left/right..the material rejects angled light from both axis).

-It has a roughly 25degree viewing-cone according to usual screen standards (sometimes referred to as 50degrees/180 L+R by companies that prefer to quote larger numbers arbitrarily). The ~0.9peak-gain on-axis falls to about 0.45gain/half-brightness around 25degrees off-axis in either direction and continues to fall smoothly to about ~0.10-0.13gain around 85-90degrees off-axis/(completely sideways).
The aggressive gain-slope simultaniously allows the screen to strongly reject angled incoming lights/windows (particularly those hitting the screen at a 45degree angle or greater) as well as limiting the amount of light the screen throws onto adjacent walls/ceiling/floor..so the screen will not light up surrounding surfaces in a room nearly as much as a lighter-colored screen would.

-Color/white-balance appears suitably neutral to my eyes, but I cannot say what an actual metered reading would measure.

-The material itself is very smooth to the touch, and to my eyes it doesn't suffer any significant sparkling/grain artifacts even when viewed at distances closer than any typical viewer (around 6ft or closer). Although I can see a very slight material-color grain from about 2ft or closer, I doubt anyone will be watching from that distance. There IS a somewhat increased surface visibility compared to a matte-white/matte-grey surface, but the difference is subtle and difficult to even describe and I very much doubt any but the most picky/sensitive of viewers would notice..and even then I don't imagine it would cause them much fuss.

-The surface also appears to be quite resistant against light scuffing/scratching which means it should be somewhat forgiving toward cleaning/dusting compared to more finicky screens. I did notice it has a slight tendancy to collect finger-prints, but I doubt that'll be a problem with it being so forgiving to wipe clean (and it's less fingerprint-prone than most cellphones).
On that note, I'd love to hear if anyone has hands-on advice for which cleaners are most appropriate to use on this material.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
Also to answer your question about cleaning the material.. I have found that Clorox Green Works does the best job. Spray some on a rag first & then clean the area.. then go back over it with another damp rag. I've also used a small drop of dish detergent in a spray bottle of water, but that can sometimes leave a residue.

Dark Energy Screens

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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post #2 of 41 Old 03-27-2017, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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The backing panel is an ~0.5gain flat-grey, the left sample is Carls ProGrey, the right sample is Carls ProWhite and the center between them is DEA.
All pictures were taken with the DEA at center and with the viewer-height at the point where the DEA material was showing the most brightness at the given angle.

0degrees on-axis:


15degrees off-axis, slightly over 0.5gain still:


25degrees off-axis, slightly lower than 0.5gain:


30degrees off-axis, noticeably lower than 0.5gain:


45degrees off-axis, quite dark..a good indication of an aggressive light-fighter:
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Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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post #3 of 41 Old 03-27-2017, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some half'n'half comparisons of the SI Slate0.8 (on the left) and DEA0.9 (on the right). Performance-wise, this is one of the closest matches to the DEA, although the price disparity between them favors the Abyss quite heavily.



This is the BD1.4 (on the left) and the DEA0.9 (on the right). Although you can see that the BD is simultaniously brighter (both on and off axis) toward the side AND able to hold a deeper black, keep in mind that this is only the case when the ambient light is hitting them from above/below and the viewer is moving side-to-side. If the light was coming from the sides, the BD wouldn't fare as well, and if the viewer was moving off-axis up/down (for example; laying on the floor or standing tall) then the BD would be dimming more than the DEA.



The SI Slate1.2 (left) and DEA0.9 (right) show what happens when you compare a lighter-colored material with higher gain against a darker-colored one..the lighter-colored screen will be brighter from ALL angles, but the darker-colored screen will always hold deeper blacks in the presence of ambient light.
Carl's ALR is a somewhat similar-looking material as the SI Slate1.2 although Carl's ALR gives a slightly warmer picture.



This is a more extreme example like the one above..a matte-white screen (Carls PW on the left) and DEA0.9 (on the right).



This is a FolkArt Gunmetal paintmix (left side) and DE Abyss (right side). The pre-made DEA is quick to setup without any mess, but costs significantly more and currently has a ~60inch screen-height limit. The paint is super affordable, but takes extra work and likely some practice.
I think they both look really good in person.
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zoro25 and riddle like this.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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post #4 of 41 Old 03-27-2017, 10:29 AM
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A well presented review..except the statements and illustration of viewing angles can be and are misleading. (unintentionally, of course.) Above all else, without actual video Images shown on a sizable example, the only reference as shown is a narrow strip of surface...something totally alien to what the normal aspect of viewing would be.
(...as shown it's plainly obvious the DEA @ center is held to a distinct disadvantage as it has very little of the projected cone of light striking it's surface)

If the screen's image was instead 107", then the angle of 25 degrees would have to be completely readjusted to allow for the size of the projected image.

The examination and presentation of any such smaller examples is skewered when the images taken are done from a distance not associated with normal viewing distances and positions for said size. To be "technically correct" the pictures would have to be taken from much, much closer in, thereby correcting the actual degree of viewing as relates to image size.

25 to 30 Degrees of good ambient light viewing is usually considered to be an excellent standard by which to judge an aggressive ALR fighter. As such being the case, the angle of viewing is quite relative to the distance one views from.



If one tries to judge viewing angles "to one side" from a distance further than the width of the viewed screen, then the results are weighted toward improving the view-ability.

As shown above, the opposite is true if the Viewing distance is decreased.

At today's more normal viewing distances (1.25 x 1) the angle as viewed "straight ahead" and to the "Left or Right" of Center" becomes less a concern than it would be if one was forced to view from closer in. Hence the primary reason many...if not most ALR Screen mfg recommend viewing from further away, and virtually all photographic examples are shown from longer distance viewpoints.
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post #5 of 41 Old 03-27-2017, 10:42 AM
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To make further note....the use of only ambient light to illustrate Gain properties is also somewhat misleading, as the amount of Foot Lambert reflectivity off the screen's surface is wholly dependent on the amount of said Ambient light it is receiving.

A material such as DEA does not even start performing up to it's potential until it starts receiving a lumen amount that is ALWAYS going to be far, FAR greater than the amount it would receive under the conditions as shown in this review.

The far greater intensity of projected light, as seen across the entire spectrum, will show a much more accurate depiction of what can be expected....on any / all samples, let alone on DEA.

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post #6 of 41 Old 03-27-2017, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Spoiler!


The images were made using projected white light at a long throw-ratio onto a narrow centered sample of DEA which eliminates the variables normally caused by viewing-distance and sample-width/throw-ratios.
A larger sample would only show the farther side being a little dimmer than center and the closer side being a little brighter than center..totally redundant things that are already better shown (more steady and helpfully independent of any given throw-ratio) by the gain directly at center for each viewing angle.

Gain across an entire screen is completely enslaved by the individual user's throw-ratio..That's why both commercial and 3rd party gain/axis measurements are taken at center either using a narrow sample or a narrow field-of-view meter, it provides the fewest harmful variables.

With the information I've posted above, ANY user with ANY projector and seating arrangement can take a few minutes to find their specific setup's various PJ-to-screen center and edge angles as well as where those fit in relation to their specific seating..Then they'll be able to use those angles and the above information to see how their exact setup will react with the DEA for both gain AND uniformity. (Keeping in mind that a general rule of thumb for ALR is around 2:1 difference of brightness from center-to-edge or less)

I'm not sure if I'm explaining this any more clearly or just with more (too many) words, so if someone else understands what I'm saying and is able to lay it out more clearly.. please. Please do it.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #7 of 41 Old 03-27-2017, 02:53 PM
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Solve any / all questions or doubts by posting examples that do not restrict the DEA to a 3" strip....and do so using some content, static or otherwise.

There is no explaining away limiting the DEA to such a narrow strip of surface. There is no advantage or improved accuracy in doing such....it only serves to show a more limited aspect of performance

Don't mistake my posting as being overly critical or dismissive. I appreciate your effort, as I'm certain Stephen does as well.

But the method used is misleading....the DEA as presented at full size does perform much better than the posted example as shown would seem to indicate.

That is plainly evidenced by the reported reviews by those who have obtained full sized screens. In fact, out of all of the aforementioned, you will find not a single naysayer...and that IS something exceedingly rare when dealing with ALR Screens of any type....or price.

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post #8 of 41 Old 03-27-2017, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Solve any / all questions or doubts by posting examples that do not restrict the DEA to a 3" strip....and do so using some content, static or otherwise.

There is no explaining away limiting the DEA to such a narrow strip of surface. There is no advantage or improved accuracy in doing such....it only serves to show a more limited aspect of performance

Don't mistake my posting as being overly critical or dismissive. I appreciate your effort, as I'm certain Stephen does as well.

But the method used is misleading....the DEA as presented at full size does perform much better than the posted example as shown would seem to indicate.

That is plainly evidenced by the reported reviews by those who have obtained full sized screens. In fact, out of all of the aforementioned, you will find not a single naysayer...and that IS something exceedingly rare when dealing with ALR Screens of any type....or price.
Those pictures ARE specifically showing a limited aspect of performance; peak gain on-axis and at several points off-axis.
With that information it's also easy to figure out a screen's uniformity for any given throw-ratio with any given viewing-distance.
It's then possible to figure out how the screen will fight ambient light from different angles/sources and strengths.
They also show a rough relative white-balance difference just as effectively as a larger sample-width.
Now that you mention it, I'm running out of things you could learn from a picture which these do not show.

Spoiler!

I'll still try to get some pictures showing what you're asking for as well, I'm just pointing out why those will be more for fun and less universally informative. I'll still try to make them as useful as possible though. I think they'll work more nicely for showing other aspects like ambient light resistance and arbitrary uniformity.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #9 of 41 Old 03-27-2017, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I'll try to update this with on-axis and off-axis side-by-side comparison shots between the DEA and a few other commercial materials as well as a couple DIY mixes.


-The DarkEnergyAbyss0.9 material appears to land around 0.9gain peak, so I'm happy to see more companies leaning toward the conservative side of the truth rather than exaggerating peak-gain claims.

-Its surface can be as dark as an N3.8-N4 black/grey (appearing around 0.10-0.13gain) when light is hitting it from far off-axis (above/below and left/right..the material rejects angled light from both axis).

-It has a roughly 25degree viewing-cone according to usual screen standards (sometimes referred to as 50degrees/180 L+R by companies that prefer to quote larger numbers arbitrarily). The ~0.9peak-gain on-axis falls to about 0.45gain/half-brightness around 25degrees off-axis in either direction and continues to fall smoothly to about ~0.10-0.13gain around 85-90degrees off-axis/(completely sideways).
The aggressive gain-slope simultaniously allows the screen to strongly reject angled incoming lights/windows (particularly those hitting the screen at a 45degree angle or greater) as well as limiting the amount of light the screen throws onto adjacent walls/ceiling/floor..so the screen will not light up surrounding surfaces in a room nearly as much as a lighter-colored screen would.

-Color/white-balance appears suitably neutral to my eyes, but I cannot say what an actual metered reading would measure.

-The material itself is very smooth to the touch, and to my eyes it doesn't suffer any significant sparkling/grain artifacts even when viewed at distances closer than any typical viewer (around 6ft or closer). Although I can see a very slight material-color grain from about 2ft or closer, I doubt anyone will be watching from that distance. There IS a somewhat increased surface visibility compared to a matte-white/matte-grey surface, but the difference is subtle and difficult to even describe and I very much doubt any but the most picky/sensitive of viewers would notice..and even then I don't imagine it would cause them much fuss.

-The surface also appears to be quite resistant against light scuffing/scratching which means it should be somewhat forgiving toward cleaning/dusting compared to more finicky screens. I did notice it has a slight tendancy to collect finger-prints, but I doubt that'll be a problem with it being so forgiving to wipe clean (and it's less fingerprint-prone than most cellphones).
On that note, I'd love to hear if anyone has hands-on advice for which cleaners are most appropriate to use on this material.
Thank you Ftoast for taking the time & applying the extra effort into a detailed analysis of how you believe the DEA "sample" performs. Hopefully this will help give other AVS members some insight as to what they can expect from a Dark Energy Abyss screen. However.. I can't say I fully agree with your viewing angle conclusions, but seeing that you are testing with only a fraction size piece of a DEA screen.. I understand why you may have drawn those conclusion. Agressive ALR screens like the DEA require the full surface area of a full screen to establish an optimal viewing angle & the DEA'S ability to achieve its percieved contrast. Seeing that a sample piece isn't really capable of doing either one of these.. you may find that the results are quite different in comparison to a full screen. Just to give you an idea of what im talking about.. here is a quote taken directly from an AVS member who owns a 120" DEA:

"The viewing angles are also much wider that I thought they would be. I can view the screen from anywhere in the room. The brightness does drop off as you move away from the center position, but is not noticeable until you are around 60 degrees off center. You can still get a very watchable picture from 80 degrees, which allows me to watch while in the kitchen."

Here is another AVS member who owns a full screen DEA & what he thinks about its viewing angles:

"I know this is just commentary with no video evidence to back it up but I want to mention that on my 92" Abyss, I'm seeing the same viewing angles that Stephen demonstrated in the video he posted earlier in this thread. I've actually always been very impressed with the viewing angles."


As you can see both their results seem to be quite different then yours & I would be willing to guess that's due to the differences in material sizes. Simply put.. you wouldn't test drive a car without a motor ..so why would you want to test drive a screen with 90% of it missing? It just isn't going to accurately depict the real performance of a standalone full screen. Overall though.. it does sound like the DEA met or even exceeded your expectations so thank you again for sharing that with everyone on AVS. You have dedicated a lot of testing & insight into numerous AVS threads so I can assure you.. your opinion is highly valued especially from me. For this.. I thank you again for taking a look at the DEA & Hopefully in the future you can see it the way it was intended to be seen as a full screen demonstration.

Stephen McGuire
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post #10 of 41 Old 03-28-2017, 03:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
As you can see both their results seem to be quite different then yours & I would be willing to guess that's due to the differences in material sizes.
Their results are the same as mine.
They simply aren't comparing their screen's center against anything so they won't fully see the exact amount of center-dimming taking place. The dimming is still there and still the same, it's just much easier for the eyes/brain to ignore as long as they aren't abruptly forced to see it happening and as long as their screen-size plus projector provides enough brightness despite the loss.

The images I posted aren't there to show how easy it is for the eyes/brain to ignore gradual off-axis dimming, they're there to show exactly how much center-dimming is always taking place for a given angle.

With any screen-size and any projector and any seating-distance the DEA 0.9 will fall to ~0.45gain or less in the middle of the screen when viewing from 25degrees left/right off-center. It falls as low as 0.15gain or slightly less when viewed at the most extreme angles..no matter how large or small the screen is.

I'm not saying that's bad. It's obviously being enjoyed.

I'm simply showing that (by the standards other screen manufacturers are all held to) the DEA has a half-gain angle of ~25degrees. Many other companies choose to exaggerate this spec, likely for the same reasons it sounds like you're leaning toward "the screen is obviously still viewable at even wider angles where it still looks fine in many setups...what's the harm in claiming a wider angle".
I'm just giving you a heads-up that if Accutel or PJC or anyone else who takes professional 3rd party measurements gets ahold of a DEA 0.9, they'll also find that its measured half-gain occurs around 25degrees.

One again, that's not bad at all..I just hate seeing manufacturers listing random specs even if they feel like it's for a good reason. Imagine if screen-makers decided to list their screens' gain higher than it really measures simply because most users felt the screen looked plenty bright even at sizes that will measure closer to 10ftL instead of 15ftL. That doesn't mean the screen should be claiming 1.5X higher gain than it measures, it just means those users are okay with a 10ftL image.

Just because viewers like a screen at extreme off-axis angles doesn't mean its half-gain is truly 80degrees on out to infinity. It just means their setup happens to stay bright and uniform enough that they are still happy with it despite the dimming and non-uniformity.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #11 of 41 Old 03-28-2017, 11:07 AM
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Also to answer your question about cleaning the material.. I have found that Clorox Green Works does the best job. Spray some on a rag first & then clean the area.. then go back over it with another damp rag. I've also used a small drop of dish detergent in a spray bottle of water, but that can sometimes leave a residue.

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post #12 of 41 Old 03-29-2017, 10:29 AM
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Are you moving the location of the projector in these images, Ftoast?

Some of the pictures don't make sense to my eye unless the projector is hitting the screen at an angle?
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post #13 of 41 Old 03-29-2017, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Moore View Post
Are you moving the location of the projector in these images, Ftoast?

Some of the pictures don't make sense to my eye unless the projector is hitting the screen at an angle?
The projector and screen stays in the same spot, but some of the pictures are taken straight-on (like someone sitting in the middle seat) while the others are taken off toward one side (like the view from a seat that's off-center).

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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The angles look so weird in this picture... what is going on with it?

The projected images appear to be at an angle, but the contrast line in the middle of the screen looks like it is straight-on?
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post #15 of 41 Old 03-29-2017, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Moore View Post
The angles look so weird in this picture... what is going on with it?

The projected images appear to be at an angle, but the contrast line in the middle of the screen looks like it is straight-on?
The two images on the left side are taken from the middle, but the two images on the right were taken after moving over to the right.

Now it looks weird to me too, lol. I didn't notice how odd the off-axis shots looked until you mentioned it not making sense to the eye...it's probably because they're taken from left/right off-center but I tried to keep the image centered between the two samples and upright enough to keep everything straight, but there's no top/bottom border nor is there a floor/ceiling in the shot because I was trying to keep the viewing-distance fairly close around 1.25:1 to get the positions that were requested earlier.
I'll try to include more visual references from inside the room in future shots so they aren't as disorienting.

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Last edited by Ftoast; 03-29-2017 at 03:27 PM.
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post #16 of 41 Old 03-29-2017, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Moore View Post
Are you moving the location of the projector in these images, Ftoast?

Some of the pictures don't make sense to my eye unless the projector is hitting the screen at an angle?
I realized a video might help it make more sense than a wall of text. Pardon my shaky-cam.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #17 of 41 Old 03-30-2017, 10:02 PM
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This post was extremely helpful. I am THAT much more confident in my purchase. My screen is coming in next week and will be also posting a detailed review.
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post #18 of 41 Old 03-30-2017, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RigorousXChris View Post
This post was extremely helpful. I am THAT much more confident in my purchase. My screen is coming in next week and will be also posting a detailed review.
Glad to hear this helped give some added piece of mind while you're waiting for the screen to ship.

There aren't many screens that can stay darker than this in a lit room, and the DEA-0.9 costs half as much (often even less) than most of its direct/pre-made competition.
Its ability to handle getting touched and cleaned is another nice bonus.

The only ways to really go wrong are with a large-size/low-lumen mismatch or a pretty inappropriate setup (like a short-throw PJ or most arrangements involving a PJ on a low table), which are things that DarkEnergy's manufacturer helps folks avoid by personal consultation and a pretty informative website.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 03-30-2017 at 10:37 PM.
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post #19 of 41 Old 04-15-2017, 09:17 PM
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Some pictures of my screen ( using cell phone) DEA is really amazing with light and it cost is one third when compare with other ALR screens, thanks once again for this amazing screen with reasonable price tag.
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post #20 of 41 Old 04-21-2017, 03:08 AM
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Mini Review of the DEA Dark Energy Abyss material

sorry if it has been asked before,

1. For 120" screen DEA, how much it cost ?
2. Is DEA a screen or screen paint?
3. If screen, can it be folded?
4. International shipping possible? ( btw, im from Philippines)
5. Has anyone compared it to screens made by Fusion Crystal Vision Screen like nano jet black?

tnx!!


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Last edited by crazyhog; 04-21-2017 at 03:12 AM.
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post #21 of 41 Old 04-21-2017, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhog View Post
sorry if it has been asked before,

1. For 120" screen DEA, how much it cost ?
2. Is DEA a screen or screen paint?
3. If screen, can it be folded?
4. International shipping possible? ( btw, im from Philippines)
5. Has anyone compared it to screens made by Fusion Crystal Vision Screen like nano jet black?

tnx!!


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Your best option for current prices and shipping information is to contact Stephen from DarkEnergyAbyss:
http://www.darkenergyscreens.com/
His email should be in that official website.

1. According to old pricing info, the $120" screen used to cost around $1200 American...but that was a while ago.

2. DEA is a screen material which can be bought and attached to a frame or bought with its own frame or even laminated to certain existing screens.

3. Folding it can cause wrinkles, it's best to roll it like a poster.

4. This is a good question for Stephen.

5. If that's the same stuff I'm thinking it is, the DEA will probably not be quite as dark-black but the DEA should have significantly higher real-world gain which gives a brighter-looking image..that's just a rough guess though.

I'll see if I can find the DarkEnergyAbyss email to add/Edit into this post.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #22 of 41 Old 06-03-2017, 12:46 AM
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Just received my 92" Fixed DEA Screen on Tuesday and I must say this is one of the best Home Theater purchases I've ever made. This sreen brings everything together. Did I mention that I have this bad boy hooked up in my family room being that I don't have a media room. The DEA handle the ambient light with no problem. My room have a very large wide window and a smaller window with two lights and there is virtually no wash out. Pictures and videos does no justice. This screen is very close to or I would say better than the Black Diamond which cost double. The custom service led by Stephen the owner is hands down A1 service. Stephen answers the phone personally and I most say that was very comforting being that I was going to try a new sreen company for as I know. Stephen guided me through my how projector/screen purchase. It was like going to the store without making a trip. Save your self some time, BEST SCREEN, BEST PRICE. PERIOD!!!
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post #23 of 41 Old 06-06-2017, 01:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Spoiler!

I think you're replying to a shell/bot.
The cleaning info is still helpful though..thanks.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #24 of 41 Old 11-26-2017, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I'll try to update this with on-axis and off-axis side-by-side comparison shots between the DEA and a few other commercial materials as well as a couple DIY mixes.
Hi, Floast, how is your folkart gunmetal mix paint compared to the DES material?
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post #25 of 41 Old 11-26-2017, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh87 View Post
Hi, Floast, how is your folkart gunmetal mix paint compared to the DES material?

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post #26 of 41 Old 11-26-2017, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi, Floast, how is your folkart gunmetal mix paint compared to the DES material?
When the surface and paintjob are really smooth (with a bright white underlying surface) the FolkArt Gunmetal mix is almost exactly the same color but slightly higher-gain (Mississippi said the abyss looked dull by compare), but with a slightly less perfect paintjobthey both have about the same brightness as well as color..so I'd describe them as looking and performing very very similarly.
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Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #27 of 41 Old 11-27-2017, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh87 View Post
Hi, Floast, how is your folkart gunmetal mix paint compared to the DES material?


Perhaps I should have added: "Not a chance in _ _ _ _ !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
When the surface and paintjob are really smooth (with a bright white underlying surface) the FolkArt Gunmetal mix is almost exactly the same color but slightly higher-gain (Mississippi said the abyss looked dull by compare), but with a slightly less perfect paintjobthey both have about the same brightness as well as color..so I'd describe them as looking and performing very very similarly.
Please specifically quote where I made any such statement as claimed above, or at any time have ever referred to the Gun Metal paint application as being any any way commensurate or equal to DEA.

You statement above is misleading, even downright false. To say that both are "about" the same color and brightness (...when referring to your samples...) and going on to say how you'd "describe them" as looking and performing "very very" similarly is purely conjecture not proven in any way by any factual or correctly done comparison, one involving a full sized representation.

DEA is so far above the Gun Metal paint application in every important aspect of performance as to make this sort of very discussion silly. Too wit, why not refer to the recent determinations of users of Gun Metal who described it as being much less a performing surface than expected...while also trying to find a single reference anywhere of DEA falling under that description?

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post #28 of 41 Old 11-27-2017, 01:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Perhaps I should have added: "Not a chance in _ _ _ _ !
Please specifically quote where I made any such statement as claimed above, or at any time have ever referred to the Gun Metal paint application as being any any way commensurate or equal to DEA.
Spoiler!
Too wit, why not refer to the recent determinations of users of Gun Metal who described it as being much less a performing surface than expected...while also trying to find a single reference anywhere of DEA falling under that description?
You described DEA as looking dull compared next to FolkArt Gunmetal late in June 2017.

There's a recent review/user of the FolkArt Gunmetal on the end of page3 in the FolkArt mix thread...their description and pictures are positive despite a slightly imperfect paintjob.

I've seen folks describe DEA as having more visible texture than wanted or having too much hotspotting, but those were rare instances.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #29 of 41 Old 11-27-2017, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
You described DEA as looking dull compared next to FolkArt Gunmetal late in June 2017.
You'll have to post the statement "in entirety" for review, because there are / have been too many times that a partially posted comment was/ is taken wholly out of context.

The "only" reasons I can imagine for you saying I made any such statement is because of a "substantial off axis" comparison...or a improper PJ positioning, which would be the only reasons for my saying such. And if so, by purposefully neglecting to mention such, the entire statement becomes misleading.

Without the actual quote being published, please do not attribute comments to me. Statements attributed to someone via memory alone cannot be held up as being accurate.

Edit:
So just to be fair, "I" took the time and effort to go back and review my postings of June and found that on 6-20-17, on your Thread tied to specifically promoting your "Easy Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint" over the DEA screen, I posted thus:
Quote:
It is totally impossible for myself, someone who has years of experience judging both perceived image quality (via photos) and actual image quality (via in-person observation) to believe, let alone accept that what is shown above would allow anyone to determine the image on the left ...which is NOT the DEA...unless a significantly under-powered PJ placed in a inappropriate manner is being used... represents the better image. Sadly...that just might be the case.
....which as a matter of fact turned out to be exactly what was happening. Your posted example was weighted in favor of your painted example, and specifically intended to lessen the performance of the DEA. You posted the examples without labels, and solicited opinions from readers as to which they preferred. I weighed in with my judgement, but qualified my choice with my suspicions that the examp0les as shown were being offered in a biased way...and when you stated you PJ's position as being one that was specifically not favorable to DEA, those suspicions were confirmed.

It seemed strange then, though not so much now in retrospect, that you'd match up two screen surfaces that have such a differing Throw/PJ positioning characteristics....and such vastly different costs. I can certainly see why though, as your paints have never showed promise as far as White brightness & Color vibrancy before that time, so only when shown compared to something performing at a lessor level (ie: at a disadvantage) would they seem better than they are.

Not as strange was the comparison between a >$800+ Laminated Screen and a sub-$50.00 paint, because the intent was to bolster the impression that any such larger expenditure was essentially unnecessary.

So...I encourage any / all who care to do so to go HERE and read my post in entirety. You might even want to read the posts by all concerned, going back and forward a page....if for no other reason but to put the comments you seeing here in proper perspective.

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Last edited by MississippiMan; 11-27-2017 at 08:08 AM.
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post #30 of 41 Old 11-27-2017, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Question

Spoiler!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
on your Thread tied to specifically promoting your "Easy Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint" over the DEA
Spoiler!
you stated you PJ's position as being one that was specifically not favorable to DEA,
Spoiler!

On my "thread tied specifically to promoting my paint over the DEA screen"? That's a neat bit of timing with the paint thread being years older than DEA.

In what way was the projector's position favoring the dark-colored angular-reflective paint over the dark-colored angular-reflective DEA Abyss?

You could always do your own side-by-side comparison. The more the merrier.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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