110" satin white diy screen but need improve - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 183 Old 04-30-2018, 01:00 PM
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Using less water with the FolkArt mix doesn't seem to increase/decrease hotspotting, but with my sprayer, less water often gave the mix some texture and it could look almost like a bunch of tiny bubbles (like the individual droplets stayed somewhat visible) instead of a smooth layer after several dusters.
I did most of my first testing with unforgiving, dark mixes though..so a lighter mix like yours may be forgiving enough to make the weird droplet thing much less noticeable. Your gun might work better than mine with slightly less water too.

As long as it says it is water-based and matte I think the poly should be able to work.
I thought all water-based poly had acrylic in it, but I could easily be wrong.
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post #122 of 183 Old 05-01-2018, 03:18 AM - Thread Starter
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maybe i will thin the mix enough but not 33% maybe i will go like 25%+ to maintain a slightly thicker viscosity, some ultra minimum texture won't harm anyway as much as dripping will.
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Using less water with the FolkArt mix doesn't seem to increase/decrease hot-spotting, but with my sprayer, less water often gave the mix some texture and it could look almost like a bunch of tiny bubbles (like the individual droplets stayed somewhat visible) instead of a smooth layer after several dusters.
I did most of my first testing with unforgiving, dark mixes though..so a lighter mix like yours may be forgiving enough to make the weird droplet thing much less noticeable. Your gun might work better than mine with slightly less water too.

As long as it says it is water-based and matte I think the poly should be able to work.
I thought all water-based poly had acrylic in it, but I could easily be wrong.

:)
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post #123 of 183 Old 05-01-2018, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Ftoast how about if i go only pearl with poly and water?
i want sth that has 100% uniform brightness off axis, will this do? or maybe use like 5% sterling just for no apparent cause

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post #124 of 183 Old 05-01-2018, 06:53 AM
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You are right that some texture doesn't look nearly as bad as some drips/runs.

All pearl amd no silver will still lose some gain off-axis, but it'll stay a little closer to 1.0gain off-axis because it's nearer to white while a light-grey mix will lose gain off-axis a little faster and a little more overall. A really small amount of silver should only make a small difference.
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Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #125 of 183 Old 05-01-2018, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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so you say that with either version I shouldn't expect the uniformity of a matte finish regarding brightness?
can you make a paint sketch from the top like describing where I must sit relevant to the screen in order to no see brightness fluctuations or what is the viewing angle that brightness starts to drop?
do you think i am more prone to the brightness degrede off axis because i throw and view from 3.5meter a 110 almost screen?

i am sorry if i look like trolling but too many technical issues arise and i have questions which i hope will lead me to a best possible screen

:)

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post #126 of 183 Old 05-01-2018, 08:01 AM
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so you say that with either version I shouldn't expect the uniformity of a matte finish regarding brightness?
Gee...but I'm sorry your feeling so worried and full of uncertainty. Personally I almost never never have others be so concerned...but then again none are using Folk Art ingredients either, and most all follow my directions from the start as well.

Questions are good...but this stuff just isn't that hard to accomplish! Nor is it so rife with uncertainty...unless one tries to deviate from accepted norms and application instructions.

Simply put, there should be no reason your Thread is into having over 100 responses without your having a already usable Screen.
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post #127 of 183 Old 05-01-2018, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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this is funny,

taking into account that i have to dress up for spraying ,transfer the huge melamine ,make spots all around the spray area,spend money and then transfer back the melamine i have to have 110% information supply on the technical side of things.

this is no narcissistic personality trait neither histrionism, it is just in-depth analysis.

needless to say this analysis will make more lurkers to pull the trigger.

as a reminder, i am all the way into doing it so why not talk about it, ain't this the main purpose of the forums?

(this is a friendly post and must not be taken as a competitive response)

:)
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post #128 of 183 Old 05-01-2018, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johny1989 View Post
so you say that with either version I shouldn't expect the uniformity of a matte finish regarding brightness?
can you make a paint sketch from the top like describing where I must sit relevant to the screen in order to no see brightness fluctuations or what is the viewing angle that brightness starts to drop?
do you think i am more prone to the brightness degrede off axis because i throw and view from 3.5meter a 110 almost screen?

i am sorry if i look like trolling but too many technical issues arise and i have questions which i hope will lead me to a best possible screen
Correct, neither version will have the perfect uniformity of a plain flat/matte...NO screen with boosted gain nor any light-fighting screen that isn't plain matte-grey can have that perfect uniformity.
Light-fighting screens (aside from plain matte-grey paints) use their directionality to increase the projector's brightness toward the middle seats while rejecting off-axis light hitting the screen..so that directionality/non-uniformity is a big part of how they fight lights.
Gain-boosted screens (basically any grey screen over 0.5gain and white screens over 1.0gain) get their boosted gain by stealing some of their own off-axis brightness and focusing it more toward the middle where most viewers tend to sit.

A shorter throw-ratio will almost always be more prone to uniformity issues than a longer throw-ratio, an a 110" screen (about 2.44meters wide) would ideally like a slightly longer throw of about 3.67meters or more if possible. Your throw-ratio isn't ideal but I wouldn't say it's awful unless you're really sensitive to uniformity differences...there are folks using more aggressive/directional screens at slightly shorter throw-ratios who don't mind it, but everybody is a little different.

Painted screens which aren't plain flat/matte start to lose peak-gain immediately as you move away from center, losing more the farther off-axis you go...but it happens pretty gradually, so many don't notice it happening unless they have more matte surface sharing space nearby to compare side-by-side.
Arranging the seating so it isn't wider than the screen is a good plan whenever possible, and the closer toward the middle you can sit will be more ideal..but most movies/shows make it hard to tell when the screen is making part of the image brighter than other areas because the change is subtle and gradual and the image isn't usually one solid block of white or color.

I totally understand wanting answers before ending up disappointed. I believe basically all decent matte+metallic mixes should have a less spiky directionality than a satin white or satin grey paint by itself.

Is this matte-white painted panel the first time you've used a plain matte-white screen?
That perfect uniformity and clean look can be addicting if you don't have too many light/reflection problems washing it out.
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Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #129 of 183 Old 05-01-2018, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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no it is not i used to have before the satin version a 2.35/1 diy melamine slightly curved and painted matte white with a few drops of black in the mixture.if we have to compare sterling silver with pearl white ,which of the two would be better for my uniform more result. watching your posts at the start of the thread about 1.4 gain of simple pearl white with poly and water altered again my needs and i am now more focused on using a mix of only pearl white /poly/water. the room i have is only 4 meter in the throw direction so no viable solution there.
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Correct, neither version will have the perfect uniformity of a plain flat/matte...NO screen with boosted gain nor any light-fighting screen that isn't plain matte-grey can have that perfect uniformity.
Light-fighting screens (aside from plain matte-grey paints) use their directionality to increase the projector's brightness toward the middle seats while rejecting off-axis light hitting the screen..so that directionality/non-uniformity is a big part of how they fight lights.
Gain-boosted screens (basically any grey screen over 0.5gain and white screens over 1.0gain) get their boosted gain by stealing some of their own off-axis brightness and focusing it more toward the middle where most viewers tend to sit.

A shorter throw-ratio will almost always be more prone to uniformity issues than a longer throw-ratio, an a 110" screen (about 2.44meters wide) would ideally like a slightly longer throw of about 3.67meters or more if possible. Your throw-ratio isn't ideal but I wouldn't say it's awful unless you're really sensitive to uniformity differences...there are folks using more aggressive/directional screens at slightly shorter throw-ratios who don't mind it, but everybody is a little different.

Painted screens which aren't plain flat/matte start to lose peak-gain immediately as you move away from center, losing more the farther off-axis you go...but it happens pretty gradually, so many don't notice it happening unless they have more matte surface sharing space nearby to compare side-by-side.
Arranging the seating so it isn't wider than the screen is a good plan whenever possible, and the closer toward the middle you can sit will be more ideal..but most movies/shows make it hard to tell when the screen is making part of the image brighter than other areas because the change is subtle and gradual and the image isn't usually one solid block of white or color.

I totally understand wanting answers before ending up disappointed. I believe basically all decent matte+metallic mixes should have a less spiky directionality than a satin white or satin grey paint by itself.

Is this matte-white painted panel the first time you've used a plain matte-white screen?
That perfect uniformity and clean look can be addicting if you don't have too many light/reflection problems washing it out.

:)
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post #130 of 183 Old 05-01-2018, 10:21 AM
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The lighter pearl some should have slightly better uniformity than the mix using a little silver and mostly pearl, but the difference won't be big because the small amount of silver won't darken the mix's color a ton (so the off-axis gain won't fall a ton faster), and the difference in peak-gain will be very small.
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Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #131 of 183 Old 05-02-2018, 03:04 AM - Thread Starter
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just ordered the polyurethane

it is water based, matte finish, polyurethane, translucent.

applies on floors, furniture and general wood surfaces.

http://www.tomara.gr/index/products/...uers?row=15141

hopefully, by the end of the week, everything will be done

:)
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post #132 of 183 Old 05-04-2018, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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polyurethane just arrived ,very high quality in comparison to the simple acrylic varnish i used last time

:)
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post #133 of 183 Old 05-10-2018, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
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until my folkarts arrive i thought it would be nice to do some more practice with the sprayer.
this time i bought a 1.25x1 m melamine and sprayed it with satine white finish.
just for testing i placed it in the middle of the screen and turned on the projector with some patterns in order to spot the difference.

satine applied with sprayer seems to be super smooth but not 100% uniform regarding its shine areas.
it looks like a 5%+ improvement over the matte ,blacks are the same , ansi contrast slightly better , colors more vivid, some unwanted shine (not very easily detected though)

i diluted the paint like 35% for testing purposes and it really got out like mist .

i also found a method to fight dripping if any occurs, i spray a coat and then place the screen horizontally for 5 mins ,repeat.
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post #134 of 183 Old 05-10-2018, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
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i also found a method to fight dripping if any occurs, i spray a coat and then place the screen horizontally for 5 mins ,repeat.
That is not a good solution. One that while it might work, doesn't address the real issue. Improperly applied coats.

What works best is spraying a very light coat in good drying conditions, and quickly putting a ^18" "Clean" Fan about 6'-8' in front of Screen Center (side & height) set on Medium to High.

That serves to quickly shrink (dry and smooth) the Paint droplets, therein preventing "run together" which is the harbinger of Runs.
(Just like how water droplets run together on a window then roll down after they gain enough mass...)

Simply laying down a surface that has enough paint on it that it would produce Runs otherwise will not result in a smooth surface, more usually Orange Peel and certainly increased drying times.

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post #135 of 183 Old 05-10-2018, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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if i spray faster with less amount of paint(all the way set to max minus - on the gun) then i will need way too many coats, i mean like more than 12 coats.

:)
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post #136 of 183 Old 05-10-2018, 08:07 AM
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if i spray faster with less amount of paint(all the way set to max minus - on the gun) then i will need way too many coats, i mean like more than 12 coats.


Well...that's how it's done. Leastwise by those who want the best results. Drying times will be much faster, so overall you won't spend any more time than otherwise. Done correctly, it should not require more that 8-9 coats.

.............and probably most relevant to you, the hot spotting can often be attributed to having coats that are too heavily applied, therein producing a surface that has more sheen than desired. And be absolutely certain of this...if the paint has that much risk of developing Runs, it IS being applied too heavily. "Dusting" means exactly that....applying the paint in a "spotty, dusty-like" manner. When this is done, and especially with the last 2 coats, the surface will diffuse more light rather than reflect the light more back toward the source.

Trying to interpret "Max minus - " ? If you mean turning the gun's air output to the lowest setting,that would be the wrong way to do it. Instead the Gun should be set to maximum Air output, but the quantity of paint being applied (...out of the Gun and onto the screen...) is NOT reduced by limiting the amount of Paint exiting the Gun, it is regulated by how quickly you move across the surface...as well as how good a job you do maintaining the appropriate distance from the surface (14") and the amount of Row overlap (60%)

Pretty darn sure that has been related to you at least 3x on this Thread, and that same advice has be repeated on virtually every other Thread involving the Duster method of application.

Not trying to be a stinker here, but the quality issues you (...and a few others...) can have can all be attributed to not really following directions as are presented to you. Some wander away from "center", trying this...or that. Usually as time-saving devices. That is not very wise. Follow the advice and directions of those with a lot of actual experience...to the letter whenever possible...and the potential of success and the ability to achieve the results desired will rise accordingly.

There is no Try....only Do.
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post #137 of 183 Old 05-10-2018, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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please tell me a way of how to be sure of the 60% overlap because i cant see the material being sprayed(the surface is white and the paint is mist)

:)
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post #138 of 183 Old 05-10-2018, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
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please tell me a way of how to be sure of the 60% overlap because i cant see the material being sprayed(the surface is white and the paint is mist)
Having a fairly bright light hitting the painted surface at an extreme/sideways angle while the rest of the room/space you're painting inside is only dimly lit (enough to avoid tripping or anything) can sometimes make it easier to see what's painted and what isn't...though there might be a better way, particularly with the paint and surface being so similarly colored.

Another way is to try to paint each row about 5cm-6cm lower than the last one..moving the gun about your fist's height lower each time you complete a row. This is something a bit easier to do even without seeing the painted area, just imagining a line across the screen and lowering it that height each time.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #139 of 183 Old 05-10-2018, 12:22 PM
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please tell me a way of how to be sure of the 60% overlap because i cant see the material being sprayed(the surface is white and the paint is mist)
Usually, there is enough difference between the surface and paint....and even all the subsequent later coats, that you can see what is being laid down over what came before.

If by "Mist" you really mean "Like Water Vapor" consistency, then it's being dispensed WAY too lightly-finely. What your describing is more akin to a Air Brush (...and some have tried that... )

But it explains a lot. Certainly, a Mist must be applied heavily to see a "wet" surface.

Now again.....this one last time.
  • The paint should be a viscosity of Tomato Soup (w/no Crackers)
  • When strained, it should fill up the depression in the Filter 2/3rds, then Strain-Drain through at a rate equal to the pour in.
  • Air Pressure on a HVLP should be set to Maximum. That is the reason for having the right size Needle. (1.0-1.5 mm)
  • Gun adjustments / Paint Prep work together to produce a Vertical Pattern at least 10" tall, certainly no less than 8"
  • Gun to Surface distance is kept steady at 14"
  • Side Step speed is 3' per second. (2 small steps)
  • Always start the top Row about 8" off to the side, and with the 50% of the Paint Pattern above the top of the Screen
  • Walk sideways, with your Gun arm extended at a distance & angle from your Body, upper arm/elbow out to the side. ( ...then you can see the paint hitting the surface when you look from the side of the Gun)
  • Do not stop...do not slow...NEVER go back, thinking you made a dip or sprayed too little. The next coats corrects.
  • Whatever the height of your pattern is at least 8", once you reach the far side, drop the Gun only the height of your fist.
  • That should be at least 60%. You want to overlap the center of the previously Sprayed Row 10% with the next coat
  • Remember....going quickly means going safely.Too little can be corrected easily. Too much....


So....Dust Lightly....dry quicker.....be happier.

FT,
Looks like I took too much time typing again...but I did give the depth of info the OP really REALLY needs at this point. Even if it is repeated.
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post #140 of 183 Old 05-15-2018, 02:52 AM - Thread Starter
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i am still waiting for the delivery of the pearl. transport service issues

:)
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post #141 of 183 Old 05-16-2018, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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couldnt wait anymore for the folkarts to arrive, i bought pure pearl powder and mixed it with water and polyourethane, 4 coats on the test melamine.
the result is astonishing, the whites are 5 times brighter and the percieved contrast is so improved i turned off the iris. cant believe in my eyes. my vpl hw10 performs like an oled tv.

the mix was, 100 grams pure grade pearl powder,
100ml water,
200ml polyourethane

double checked all hcfr patterns and all pass correct,
excuse my non perfect coverage of the test melamine,
the next days i will buy 200 grams pure powder and spray the test surface again this time doubling the pearl. i want to see how much better it can be,
from now on its more importand the screen than the projector

*my p10 camera cant do enough justice of the result
** ftoast checkout the grain level in the last macro shot, how does it compare to a pearl folkart mix(a most aggressive one)? should i add more pearl or i will cross the hotspot limit
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post #142 of 183 Old 05-16-2018, 09:09 AM
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Spoiler!

I don't see a grainy (or non-grainy) close-up, but I also don't hear you saying you're bothered by it looking grainy..so I'm assuming it looks pretty smooth right now?
The FolkArt mixes in general do well for avoiding a grainy look (especially the lighter-colored ones), but it sounds like this mix you made is likely brighter than the FolkArt (or just about anything else) would be, which means you likely found a better bright/high-gain mix.

You're likely in great shape with your mix as-is, but if it's affordable enough and you don't mind the time/work of testing a version that doubles the amount of metallic, you might like that even more (though it might start to hotspot...it might not).
Likewise, if the FolkArt is already headed your way and you can't get it refunded, you may still want to see how it compares..but it sounds like you've mixed yourself something even better.

Can you post a link to what you bought as well as a picture? I remember another AVSmember trying a powdered metallic which they really didn't like, and it'll be nice to see if what you found might be ready to get in other parts of the world.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #143 of 183 Old 05-16-2018, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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here is the mix applied on a piece of paper. check out the graininess level
yes will give further details on the pearl used soon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I don't see a grainy (or non-grainy) close-up, but I also don't hear you saying you're bothered by it looking grainy..so I'm assuming it looks pretty smooth right now?
The FolkArt mixes in general do well for avoiding a grainy look (especially the lighter-colored ones), but it sounds like this mix you made is likely brighter than the FolkArt (or just about anything else) would be, which means you likely found a better bright/high-gain mix.

You're likely in great shape with your mix as-is, but if it's affordable enough and you don't mind the time/work of testing a version that doubles the amount of metallic, you might like that even more (though it might start to hotspot...it might not).
Likewise, if the FolkArt is already headed your way and you can't get it refunded, you may still want to see how it compares..but it sounds like you've mixed yourself something even better.

Can you post a link to what you bought as well as a picture? I remember another AVSmember trying a powdered metallic which they really didn't like, and it'll be nice to see if what you found might be ready to get in other parts of the world.
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post #144 of 183 Old 05-16-2018, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johny1989 View Post
here is the mix applied on a piece of paper. check out the graininess level
yes will give further details on the pearl used soon
Judging only by the picture it looks like that's more grainy than even a dark-colored and extra-gain-boosted version of the FolkArt mix, BUT often pictures accentuate/highlight some things way beyond how they look in person, so as long as it doesn't appear bothersomely grainy to you in person I'd say you're good.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #145 of 183 Old 05-16-2018, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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from what i have concluded.
1)the polyurethane is a super transparent matte agent
2)the pearl powder(pure grade) has high gain properties
3)putting 100grams of pure pearl powder in 200ml polyurethane is like more aggressive pearl to polyurethane than any premixed pearl.
4)the white matte underlayment diffuses light back to the pearl polyurethane layer(since polyurethane is transparent) and the pearl amound in polyurethane wont achieve 100% reflection since it "swims" in polyurethane
5) a black matte underlayment would theoreticaly boost even more the gain because it would absorb more from the kind of light that makes it behind the polyurethane pearl layer

this is the pearl powder used(highly toxic), needs fpp2 mask spec, i got 100gr for 9 euros, i am sure an ebay search of "powder pearl" can find (needs to be white as it also comes in gold).
http://www.art-center.gr/product-gr.php?product_id=7653

as the ratio goes as i said before 100grams powder mixed with 100ml tap water then this mix to 1/1 polyurethane
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post #146 of 183 Old 05-16-2018, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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here in the USA if someone want to trial it more. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flash-White...sAAOSw7~Va9mFY
you will find this offered in microns size . the more size the better sparkle ,you will want the one for "glitter effects" usually above 100-200 microns
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post #147 of 183 Old 05-16-2018, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johny1989 View Post
here in the USA if someone want to trial it more. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flash-White...sAAOSw7~Va9mFY
you will find this offered in microns size . the more size the better sparkle ,you will want the one for "glitter effects" usually above 100-200 microns
We'll have to wait with anxiety to see the end results......

I completely discount the use of such huge (100 - 200 micron ) particles. The Micron size of metallic Mica in a normally configured Paint ....kinda good for screens, certainly not costume Glitter effects...would be no more than 25 microns. And that is still too big according to what I have found workable.

Kinda letting the Kitty out of the Closet here, but part of the balance found in a good screen paint is knowing how big the particles can...and should be. Go too large and you have to negate their reflect'tivity by masking the surface of the particles to whatever extent is needed. Easy thing to remember....the larger the particle, the more reflective it is. This is even more true with Glass beads.

In comparison, the micron sizes used by one particular ALR Paint mfg in one particular paint are only 5 microns so I kinda think you slipped a decimal point.

By another comparison, Retro Reflective screens that have visible beads such as the DaLite HP 2.8 have beads in the 19 micron range. And that allows for a gain of 2.8! And that size is TOO BIG for a proper, high performance metallic based mix. (...imagine what a screen with 100 micron beads would do!!!

100 microns would look like you coated the screen with grains of sugar.

The chart below gives you a good understanding of the size disparity between your commented size and what the reality of it all is..
(Note: There are some differences in what / how items are measured. Example: some Human hair is thicker, some thinner)




So you either misread the Vendor, or the Vendor is absolutely clueless as the what sizes make up even a functional Retro Screen.

You can do what you want, of course, but encouraging / prompting others to use something without really knowing the whole "picture" is not a good thing.
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Last edited by MississippiMan; 05-16-2018 at 05:31 PM.
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post #148 of 183 Old 05-16-2018, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
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my supplier has no clue on micron size. when i dropped the pearl in the poly it was like baking flour, so i have understood the scale wrongly. no way it was sugar like, it was so thin that when you open the cap of the jar pearl air (like smoke thin) gets out and you must not inhale it. so yes go for the super thin pearl. i am going to buy some more now will post more pics to show you how thin flour like it is.
how thick is flour?

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post #149 of 183 Old 05-17-2018, 01:19 AM
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Spoiler!


That seems more likely...something between 5-10 microns. Flour is approx 5-10 microns as well. Something to consider....Mica sizes as small as .5 microns are available....and the best of the best of optically pure Glass Beads are also 95%+ perfectly round......whereas many if not most are less than 60-70%, an important factor when such are being used in a single layer.

A Mica particle 5 microns small would tend to cake because they are not round, but chip / flake-like in shape.

Finely milled flour can range around 5-10 microns....or "not so fine " up to 100 microns.

Interference Powders average 5 microns. They are noted for their uniformity....and that last aspect is critical in how well they perform as far as visible texture and the tendency to sparkle. Another juicy tidbit....while one would tend to think smaller gets increasingly more reflective, it is exactly the opposite. Smaller can add color, but it also reduces the amount of light reflected because of the lack of surface available, and increased packing density can reduce reflective ability even more.

Here is a more complete Table of the varying sizes (micron) of many common materials.

Particle Particle Size (microns) one inch 25,400 dot (.) 615 Eye of a Needle 1,230 Glass Wool 1000 Spanish Moss Pollen 150 - 750 Beach Sand 100 - 10000 Mist 70 - 350 Fertilizer 10 - 1000 Pollens 10 - 1000 Cayenne Pepper 15 - 1000 Textile Fibers 10 - 1000 Fiberglass Insulation 1 - 1000 Grain Dusts 5 - 1000 Human Hair 40 - 300 Human Hair 60 - 600 Dust Mites 100 - 300 Saw Dust 30 - 600 Ground Limestone 10 - 1000 Tea Dust 8 - 300 Coffee 5 - 400 Bone Dust 3 - 300 Hair 5 - 200 Cement Dust 3 - 100 Ginger 25 - 40 Mold Spores 10 - 30 Starches 3 - 100 Red Blood Cells 5 - 10 Mold 3 - 12 Mustard 6 - 10 Antiperspirant 6 - 10 Textile Dust 6 - 20 Gelatin 5 - 90 Spider web 2 - 3 Spores 3 - 40 Combustion-related Carbon Monoxide from motor vehicles, wood burning,
open burning, industrial processes up to 2.5 Fly Ash 1 - 1000

Coal Dust 1 - 100 Iron Dust 4 - 20 Smoke from Synthetic Materials 1 - 50 Lead Dust 2 Face Powder 0.1 - 30 Talcum Dust 0.5 - 50 Asbestos 0.7 - 90 Calcium Zink Dust 0.7 - 20 ClickPaint Pigments 0.1 - 5 Auto and Car Emission 1 - 150 Metallurgical Dust 0.1 - 1000 Metallurgical Fumes 0.1 - 1000 Clay 0.1 - 50 Humidifier 0.9 - 3 Copier Toner 0.5 - 15 Liquid Droplets 0.5 - 5 Insecticide Dusts 0.5 - 10 Anthrax 1 - 5 Yeast Cells 1 - 50 Carbon Black Dust 0.2 - 10 Atmospheric Dust 0.001 - 40 Smoldering or Flaming Cooking Oil 0.03 - 0.9 Corn Starch 0.1 - 0.8 Sea Salt 0.035 - 0.5 Bacteria 0.3 - 60 Bromine 0.1 - 0.7 Lead 0.1 - 0.7 Radioactive Fallout 0.1 - 10 Rosin Smoke 0.01 - 1 Combustion 0.01 - 0.1 Smoke from Natural Materials 0.01 - 0.1 Burning Wood 0.2 - 3 Coal Flue Gas 0.08 - 0.2 Oil Smoke 0.03 - 1 Tobacco Smoke 0.01 - 4 Viruses 0.005 - 0.3 Typical Atmospheric Dust 0.001 to 30 Sugars 0.0008 - 0.005 Pesticides & Herbicides 0.001 Carbon Dioxide 0.00065 Oxygen 0.0005

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post #150 of 183 Old 05-17-2018, 01:22 AM - Thread Starter
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has anyone tried to apply any of these mixes on a black surface (preferably matte).

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