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post #1 of 32 Old 01-08-2018, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking for att high contract material diy

Hi, I currently have a eauroscreen/draper react high contrast screen that looks great in my living room. It works both in daytime and nighttime viewing. But I´m adding a anamorphic lens and my 16:9 screen will then be too small. One solution is to buy a larger 2.35:1 react screen but thats very pricy, I also might have to use a curved screen since I have a short throw, initial tests with the lens showed some pretty large pincushion effects.

So, is there a diy high contrast material that has the same picture quality that I currenly have?, I know that carls place sells ALR material but my screen costs 10 times as much so I don´t think the picture quality will be as good as my current screen. What are my options in your opinion?

/Karl
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post #2 of 32 Old 01-08-2018, 05:21 AM
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Assuming it's still the grey React around 1.1gain or a little higher I think you might be pleasantly surprised by how nice Carl's ALR looks..(the stretchy version that's just called "Carl's ALR", not the "pro" not "4K" versions).
Both carlofet and amazon often sell samples of the Carl's materials for $1-$5, so that's probably the best thing to check out before committing too far just in case.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #3 of 32 Old 02-10-2018, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I have reviewed the sample, unfortuantly It cant compete with my react 2.0, carls alr blacks are better but the whites and brightness in carls alr cant compete with the react. This small review is based only of a sample of carls alr.

So I will try to see if I can get my hands on a used react cinemascope. I havent decided if I will go flat or curved yet.

The seller of the react thought that maybe using a high contrast material in a curved screen might be a bad idea. Can anyone comment on that?
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post #4 of 32 Old 02-10-2018, 09:40 AM
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Look into AVS's own homegrown "Dark Energy Abyss" material.

Lots of referenced examples:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-scr...yss-owner.html

This example sports a curved Screen at 2.39:1
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-scr...nity-edge.html

Not exactly true "DIY" anymore, but it is more adjustable "size-wsie than the Commercial alternatives.

However there is a 2.39:1 Size-Limit of 60" height so the biggest you can go is 60" x 143" (155" diagonal) so if that ain't big 'enuff....?

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post #5 of 32 Old 02-10-2018, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I will check it out
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post #6 of 32 Old 02-10-2018, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Is the shop located in the US?
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post #7 of 32 Old 02-10-2018, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Challe77 View Post
Is the shop located in the US?
Yes, but DEA has the experience needed to ship overseas.

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post #8 of 32 Old 02-10-2018, 07:37 PM
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If you're concerned about brightness from Carl's ALR, keep in mind that the DES Abyss material is dimmer than Carl's ALR by a noticeable amount...you might want to check out their brighter options or something like the Seymour Matinee Black or Matinee Silver which is both higher-gain and a bit less expensive than DES in some cases.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #9 of 32 Old 02-10-2018, 09:18 PM
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Ftoast,

The above is false, or in the least misleading as the performance between the two drastically favors DEA. The OP's wants a screen that delivers excellent Blacks while also providing excellent Whites. Neither the Seymour or Carl's products cando both. Blacks do not adequately compare to the DEA's and that is a critical failing in a ALR screen. Brightness does not always mean better overall performance.

Recent posting by several adopters who have compared several varied samples and chose DEA all have proven this, so comments made to the contrary seem strangely akin to those made by just the one or two individuals on Screens who seem determined to find a "conspiracy" going on. They cannot fathom how some Newcomers can give DEA a go and then wax so eloquent about it's virtues. Then, even when AVS-Old Timers do the same...still, no proper's are offered. As stated by those members...indeed it seems an agenda or conspiracy is going on...but not by DEA!
(...as for me? How often to I interject on the"DEA" subject? Not very often. I just can't abide misleading statements...)

People who have tried and own DEA screens love the DEA...plain and simple...without a single exception., so comments that allude that a inferior product somehow outperforms it in any meaningful way are not based on anything but conjecture...or worse.

If the Seymour products are such a viable choice to consider, why then wasn't it brought to the OP's attention by you earlier...someone who clearly expressed concerns about the feasibility of any such drastically less expensive option? No...not until DEA was mentioned...and the OP stated that the Carrl's feel short. Then out came the "cost" Knives, and comments that don't reflect the reality of what actual end users are experiencing, if their set ups are properly matched to the DEA. And if one thing is absolutely certain, Stephen @ DEA makes it consummately clear to anyone considering DEA what the advantages, requirements, and limitations are...from the start before any decision is made. Nothing of the sort can be said about either the Seymour or Carl's....nor do your comments bother to take any of such into account.

The only 2 things left unknown is exactly what PJ the OP is using and what he means by "a larger 2.35:1" size. . DEA sports a gain of 0.9, more than adequate for most applications if a PJ with 1600+ lumen is utilized and the Screen size is under 120". Above that...yes, the more Lumen the better. . Of course with any screen of 0.9 gain, having a higher lumen output might well be better. But again, brightness coming from either a PJ's output or a Screens gain does not tell the entire tale. The Screen itself must be able to provide impressive contrast boosting, clear, bright whites, an acceptably wide viewing cone, and minimal artifacts. Even suggesting that the OP should consider the poorer performing Seymour products based only on supposed brightness is doing an excellent Screen such as DEA a gross injustice. And as far as Carl's ALR......no contest at all. DEA trounces it in virtually every category that matters...price notwithstanding, Which BTW with your "a bit less" comment seems to be the only thing the Seymour products have going for them in this particular instance.

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post #10 of 32 Old 02-11-2018, 03:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I have an optoma h33, lumens should be within range. Stephen actually had a sample of my react 2.0 and sent me a comparison shot side by side, samples can't paint the whole picture, but judging by the ones sent to me in e-mail, black were much better and still maintaining the white levels of my react. So I´m temped to order one without having to view a sample

My screen will probably about 51x108 inch.
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post #11 of 32 Old 02-11-2018, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Challe77 View Post
I have an optoma h33, lumens should be within range. Stephen actually had a sample of my react 2.0 and sent me a comparison shot side by side, samples can't paint the whole picture, but judging by the ones sent to me in e-mail, black were much better and still maintaining the white levels of my react. So I´m temped to order one without having to view a sample

My screen will probably about 51x108 inch.

My goodness, your size and lumen output puts you within easy reach of exceptional results! But 51" x 108" doesn't add up to any known Formatting.
Typo? 58" x 103" = 118" diag. @ 16:9 ....and 51" x 91" = 103" diag. @ 16:9 .........both will work out well with the HD33, but I'm a'bettin on the 58" x 103" / 118"er

I want to apologize to you personally for venting last post, but it's just knowing the DEA product and Stephen from personal experience, and having seen how many have also jumped without personally viewing and yet whom have all be satisfied makes me be more than a bit defensive on both their parts.

Certainly for some in the DIY world, the difference of $2-300.00 might spell the difference in a decision. But....for those who really want and need exceptional ALR performance, combined with a quality image with the fewest and least problematic ALR caveats possible, the DEA is nothing short of outstanding. And it's a child of the AVS's DIY Screen Forum too! Therefore I feel strongly that it deserves it's place and position as a premier offering that holds up it's reputation against all the other Mfg offerings. And so it should receive our strongest consideration when suggesting a high performance ALR option.

One thing that many do not know / take into account is DEA's ability tp be shipped safely, securely, and relatively affordably overseas. They've shipped across the width & breadth of the Planet, from the EU to AU.....serving good stead against ALR screens costing $1000's more "locally". Combine all that with the fact that complete Screen kits as well as the Laminated Fabric alone are available, and DEA virtually stands by itself at it's price point as far as a unique and affordable option that actually delivers on it's promises. (...and more...)

As a qualifier (...and Olive Twig...) to Ftoast, certainly for the cost conscious DIY'er who wants a non-paint ALR option, the Carl's can hold a place in the scheme of things. But....as a comparative "performance" choice vs DEA?

It's just not there.

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post #12 of 32 Old 02-11-2018, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah that was a typo, its about 42x104. Thanks for your detailed answer
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post #13 of 32 Old 02-11-2018, 06:39 AM
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Every comparison showing Carl's ALR or Seymour MB next to DEA has shown the DEA to be noticeably dimmer.
I brought up the brighter options being a good alternative over DES Abyss because Challe77 mentioned concern over Carl's ALR not being as bright as the React2.0.

If you prefer a brighter image, there are several brighter screens (including some sold by DarkEnergyScreens as well), and the Abyss costs almost 10X more than Carl's ALR..something Challe77 was interested in avoiding. Though the DEA should still be cheaper than a larger React2.0 I'd imagine.
As long as you have the lumens and can comfortably afford it, the DES Abyss is a great light-fighting screen.
No conspiracy needed.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #14 of 32 Old 02-11-2018, 10:06 AM
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Ftoast,

Quote:
Every comparison showing Carl's ALR or Seymour MB next to DEA has shown the DEA to be noticeably dimmer.
But the considerations left out are the Lumen output the PJ/s doing the comparisons actually were...how they were set-up for the samples shown....and by whom. Also, the "every" designation shouldn't be given to 1...possibly 2 such examples anyway....not when so many actual end users have stated they had no issues with brightness.

If such was /is the case, then just don't drop such a comment in...support it with a link. That way people can get all the skinny, not just a blurb.

And...you got it all wrong...Challe77 did NOT say he was interested in avoiding spending whatever was required....he only stated his doubts about how spending 10x "less" would garner him acceptable results:
Quote:
I know that carls place sells ALR material but my screen costs 10 times as much so I don´t think the picture quality will be as good as my current screen.
...andGowleee, wadd'ya know? When he examined his Carl's sample, his doubts were justified.

Ya can't spin that anyway but clockwise and move forward.

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post #15 of 32 Old 02-11-2018, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Challe77 View Post
Yeah that was a typo, its about 42x104. Thanks for your detailed answer
That's still a bit weird.

A 2.35:1 screen that is 42" high would be 100" wide. 44" x 105" would be 114" diagonal @ 2.35:1 / 2.39:1

......but you did say "...about..."

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post #16 of 32 Old 02-12-2018, 02:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I measured again, and it´s 41 inch high ( measured in the middle of the smile of the pincushion ) and 105 inch wide, measured in the middle of the sides. So shouldnt I construct a screen around the pictures that is projected on the screen, even though it might not be 2:35:1,2:39:1?

But a 16:9 image with an anamorphic lens should be increased by 133% so that should be 99.6 inch, but I obviously get 105 inch ???

Last edited by Challe77; 02-12-2018 at 02:35 AM.
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post #17 of 32 Old 02-15-2018, 12:34 AM
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Challe77 if you are looking for some more images and a comparison I just posted them in this thread post #16 . I have the DES Abyss .9 DIY material and created a simple frame and wrapped it around it.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-scr...l#post55695728
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post #18 of 32 Old 02-15-2018, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank, looks very good, I just took the leap and made an order for the regular dea material, now I just need to plan my curved frame design
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post #19 of 32 Old 02-15-2018, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Challe77 View Post
Thank, looks very good, I just took the leap and made an order for the regular dea material, now I just need to plan my curved frame design
You could construct a Frame with a thin, flexible solid substrate that is curved by using Blacks underneath.

The DEA can easily wrap and conform to a thin, curved material such as Expanded Foam PVC Board that is 6 mm thick.

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post #20 of 32 Old 02-15-2018, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I will try to make sense of the diagram , but I like this curved design better than using wood, by using a thin material it should look very minimalistic and clean. If I wrap the material over the thin pvc, how should I make it stick? Or could I lay it flat unto the pvc with double sided tape on the back?, if I use wood I could use a stapler but not with this material right?

I still need to mask the sides and top, bottom with veltex/black tape since the height will differ slightly when switching between 16:9/2:35:1 because of the pincussion of my lens.

I hope you understand what I mean
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post #21 of 32 Old 02-15-2018, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Challe77 View Post
Thank, looks very good, I just took the leap and made an order for the regular dea material, now I just need to plan my curved frame design
Do you have any plans to compare the DE Abyss material beside the Carl's or React2.0 to share which are brighter with your projector?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #22 of 32 Old 02-15-2018, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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yeah, I was thinking of covering half of my react screen of the material when I get it and take some comparison pictures, but not carls since I only a small sample and therefore maybe nor a fair comparison.
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post #23 of 32 Old 02-15-2018, 02:11 PM
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If you're curious how Carl's compares for brightness you'll want to look at them with the Carl's sample resting on the DE Abyss near the overall screen's center (where Carl's should be a small but noticeable amount brighter) and maybe also look at them with Carl's positioned over the DE Abyss near a side/corner (where the Carl's should be more noticeably brighter because of its lighter color).
The DE Abyss should appear a solid couple of full shade darker-colored than Carl's which will help DEA fight even more light.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #24 of 32 Old 02-15-2018, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Challe77 View Post
Thanks, I will try to make sense of the diagram , but I like this curved design better than using wood, by using a thin material it should look very minimalistic and clean. If I wrap the material over the thin pvc, how should I make it stick? Or could I lay it flat unto the pvc with double sided tape on the back?, if I use wood I could use a stapler but not with this material right?

I still need to mask the sides and top, bottom with veltex/black tape since the height will differ slightly when switching between 16:9/2:35:1 because of the pincussion of my lens.

I hope you understand what I mean
I do...traveling to Indy today / Tomorrow so cannot answer in depth
Order the DEA / Flexi sized 3" more than actual scree area on every side so you can wrap the DEA over the edges and the staple using 1/4" T50s

......o you coild use a string Tape on the REAR. Never put anything between the DEA and it's substrate.

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post #25 of 32 Old 02-17-2018, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I might do a wood construction after all, not sure yet, I´m trying to think of a way to put the center speaker behind the screen and still make it looks good, but perhaps Its best to start a new thread.

btw, is there an easy program you can use to input measurements and the view the finished results as rotatable 3d model?

Last edited by Challe77; 02-17-2018 at 01:12 AM.
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post #26 of 32 Old 03-20-2018, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I have now received the dark energy abyss screen:
I havent built my curved screen yet but I just had to see how the picture was compared to my react. I mounted half of the react screen with the DEA with some tape.


Daytime test:

The DEA has a much deeper black than my react 2.0, contrast ratio is much better, details in dark scenes came out more even in daytime watching, this also makes the picture appear sharper. Colors seem more washed out on the react 2.0
Focusing on just the DEA screen and comparing black, white, and the other colors its looks great, the whites are as they should be compared to the other colors, the screen is not stretched either so bulges messes slightly with the colors but I still think it looks great.

Looking and focusing only on the react side the colors are as I said more washed out and the whites look the same as the DEA. So I think comparing only small samples is not the best idea if you want get do a fair comparison.


Nighttime test:

In a dark room the two screens are more evenly matched. But in some scenes the react has a thin layer of grey over the picture which makes the DEA picture better. In space scenes the DEA is also more black, and the react is more grey. Brightness is about the same but since the DEA is more black, the brightness seem better than the react if you understand what I mean.

This is a sound transparent screen so I was a little worried that this would affect image quality, at 3 meters it´s not noticeable, you have to sit at 2 meters to see them, but I don´t sit that close.

Can´t wait to build my curved screen so I will do justice to the material.
I haven´t done a full picture calibration either.
I will update again when my new screen is finished.
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post #27 of 32 Old 03-20-2018, 02:12 PM
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That all sounds great...and especially the part of this Screen being Acoustically Transparent yet out performing a non-AT screen visually.

I'm certain that as a few more examples get installed and receive AVS Peer Review, the DEA (AT & non AT) will show off it's merits even to the doubters that have dismissed it recently.



Carl's ALR....R.I.P.

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HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
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post #28 of 32 Old 04-17-2019, 12:28 AM - Thread Starter
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ok, bumping this thread again, I did a wood design and its ok but I'm thinking of redoing my frame to something like what Mississippiman suggested, and don't know if pvc material is available for that size that I need, does it work with small wood also?
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post #29 of 32 Old 04-17-2019, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Challe77 View Post
ok, bumping this thread again, I did a wood design and its ok but I'm thinking of redoing my frame to something like what Mississippiman suggested, and don't know if pvc material is available for that size that I need, does it work with small wood also?

PVC would be a PITA.


Small wood? Are you referring to 1x Lumber? (1x3 - 1x4 ) 1x Lumber is / has always been the material of choice, but the frame needs to be prepped for stretching DEA over it. All Corners should be lightly sanded to remove sharp points, as well as edges that might have hard to notice Splinters.

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HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
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post #30 of 32 Old 04-18-2019, 01:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Hmm, I´m confused now, because it was you who suggested the pvc earlier in the post??

If I go with another wood design should I use 4 boards or I large like the pictures below, and I assume when I bend it the the DEA will be stapled on after??
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