Need advice for a simple paint mix for the light-controlled room with BenQ HT2550 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 29 Old 07-02-2018, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Need advice for a simple paint mix for the light-controlled room with BenQ HT2550

I'm considering HT2550 for my home theater upgrade. Currently I have 2007 issue Mitsubishi HC5000 (1080p LCD, 1000 lumens, 10,000:1 contrast) which still looks good on my 117" DIY screen. I'm mostly happy with my current screen, but the wall allows to go slightly larger, maybe 130" or 140" and I want as large screen as my wall and projector allow, to take advantage of 4K. The room is fully light controlled, with dark ceiling near the screen, but lighter colour floors.

I'm thinking about painting the wall - what color and paint mix would work best for my room and this projector? I'm looking for cheap and decent paint that will get me a good result, available in Canada. Based on head-exploding amount of reading, I'm leaning towards a simple mix of Rust-Oleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver with a flat base white paint (not sure which, brands are different from US). My current screen is some AVS forum approved (as of 2008) shade of Home Depot paint that's spray-painted on blackout cloth stretched over a frame. Looks almost white (whiter than I thought really) but it is a very slight shade of grey.

Should I go darker shade of grey? I'm thinking Rust-Oleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver mixed 1:1 with white will give it grey tint, and for dark room it should be enough. Will it be enough, not enough or too much? I don't want to go into expensive or difficult paint mixes. Advice is welcome. Should it be mixed 1:1:1 with water for spraying? Would metallic spray well? I have simple HomeDepot electric spray gun recommended here in 2008, don't recall its name, it should still work.

I really want to use it to watch 3D movies as well, so I guess it should not be low gain, but is the metallic at all needed in light controlled room? Or would it get me higher gain for 3D and richer colours?

I'm not trying to make a perfect screen, but as good as I can, while keeping it cheap and simple. So, would you advise this simple mix? Maybe some other simple mix? No metallic at all, or going for metallic particles?

Thanks.

Here' a photo of my home theater room:

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post #2 of 29 Old 07-02-2018, 12:32 PM
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Unless you plan to watch with some lights on during movies, I'd suggest starting by making sure the wall is as smooth as possible and then painting it with some flat Light-Base/Base1 interior paint..(some lights for the seats/viewers during sports or most brighter content are usually fine, but darker content and movies will easily washout on this).
The flat Light-Base/Base1 (Glidden is commonly recommended, though I've been very happy with the cheap ColorPlace brand from Wal-Mart) is typically the purest and brightest paint, so it'll give a very natural image in an unlit and fairly dark-colored room..plus it's both very inexpensive AND a commonly recommended first layer before spraying a bright metallic mix.
This will give you a great screen as-is for 3D and dim/lights-out moves, plus it'll be the perfect surface (thanks in large part to your initial smoothing work) if you decide you'd prefer a mix to help fight some lights instead.

Or is lights-on movie watching something you already expect will be somewhat common..where a light-fighting mix would be a good plan right from the beginning.?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #3 of 29 Old 07-02-2018, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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No "light-fighting" is necessary, apart from light reflected from the floor. All of the movie watching will be in total darkness, so no lights planned at all. My only concerns are black levels (not the best with HT2550 apparently, and I feel this is the only problem even with my current setup) and sufficient brightness with 3D and normal movies. My thoughts were spray the base layer with flat white, then go over 1:1 metallic/flat white mix. So slight grayness would improve black levels, and metallic would improve brightness. But it's just my guess. If you think just white would be good, I'll start with that.

Is this an appropriate paint? https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.e...000541502.html
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post #4 of 29 Old 07-02-2018, 01:52 PM
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Hello Roman!


Been several years!


You do still want some metallic content, (mostly Pearl w.some bit of Silver) and some Poly & Water and you'll be able to "expand" your visual surroundings.


That older Wag'ster Control Spray could be used again, but it would be trickier than with one of the newer Guns that support 1.4 mm down to 1.0 mm nozzles. The art of "Dusting" has become exactly that...an art. Because done right, no other method can more easily achieve a glassy smooth surface that still retains a Flat sheen (ie: a lack thereof) And that sort of surface is both ideally suited for 4K resolution and basically mandatory.


But as I sorta said...it can be used because as long as it is the original CS and not the Heavy Duty, you can get the Paint's viscosity ideally thinned for Dusting.


I really don't think you need to do much hem hawing about with testing or trying out "possibles". Let's just get it over with and get something upon that wall you can be proud of for the next 9-10 years!

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post #5 of 29 Old 07-02-2018, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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As my budget is tight, I'd prefer simpler things. So I will try to get by with my existing Wagner spray (thanks for reminding the name, I didn't even remember what it's called). Now, can I just use Silver, with less content than 1:1 maybe? Like 2:1 (poly to Silver)? Because just buying Silver and Pearl is $60 alone. Maybe using Silver 2:1 or 3:1 to get enough metallic content, and just enough grey pigments to tone it down? Or should I use Peal and add another grey pigment (like black acrylic from dollar store or something, LOL)? Or maybe get a Behr Silver Screen paint and mix it with Pearl White metallic instead?

Alternatively, I can just use a roller instead of spraying - what do you think it will give me a better result? Spraying with Wagner or solling with short or foam roller?
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post #6 of 29 Old 07-02-2018, 04:14 PM
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It won't be difficult to muster up a Mix that combines the ideally suited components in the right ratios....and do so without unnecessary expense.


If your to consider any Metallic as being important enough to pay $26-$30 for a quart, it would be the RustOleum White Pearl.
Trying to use Silver itself alone as the Metallic is pretty much a fruitless en devour. Too high a ratio and you'll have a Bright but Dirty looking screen. Mask the Silver with too much White (or Gray) and all you have is a Dull Gray surface.



32 oz Pearl
16 oz Bright Flat White Tinted to a N8.5 Gray (It would be much better to get the "Gray" from 8-10 oz Silver Metallic, but......)
16 oz Polyurethane Clear Matte
12 oz Water

That Mix will go through the Wagner (after straining) and lay up onto the wall just fine as long as you do not dawdle across the surface.
3' per second --- 60% Row Overlap --- Never stop inside the Screen area
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post #7 of 29 Old 07-02-2018, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
32 oz Pearl
16 oz Bright Flat White Tinted to a N8.5 Gray (It would be much better to get the "Gray" from 8-10 oz Silver Metallic, but......)
16 oz Polyurethane Clear Matte
12 oz Water
Thanks. How would I determine a N8.5 Gray tint? Let's say for example I'm using Canadian Home Depot. Any specific brand and color code that you can share that would give me N8.5?
Also, why would I need poly if I have white/gray flat paint? Won't just paint do, without the poly?
Would quoted quantity be enough for 130" or 140" screen?
What if I go for FolkArt metallic from Michael's? Might be cheaper maybe? If so, which one?
I have carpet etc. in the room. Is it feasible to spray with Wagner in the room - how large area would I have to protect from paint particles?

Sorry if those are noob questions, I just don't know...
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post #8 of 29 Old 07-03-2018, 02:40 AM
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The bigger screen-size itself can help tame the projector's black-levels a bit (bigger image-size means slightly darker image overall, including darker blacks).
Plain white does have three nice advantages; it's the brightest all-around when viewed from seats farther toward the sides, it's the most forgiving to spray or roll on because it naturally looks smoother once it dries even if it isn't smooth, and its price is pretty unbeatable.

If you're pretty concerned about reflections from the floor, you might want to lay down a dark-colored bedsheet between the screen and seats to see if it helps by a noticeable amount. If it does, you could likely find a similarly dark-colored area rug for around $50 or possibly less.

A fairly common ~N8.5 tint/color (actually N8.3) you can ask for is "Universal Grey" or (OONN 62/000). It's usually a tint for brands like CIL, ColorPlace, Dulux, Glidden, PPG, etc.. but others may have it available too.

Many mixes can be adjusted to give around 1.0-1.3peakgain along with a light-grey color, but even the brightest will have the opposite end of the screen a little dimmer than plain white when viewed from a seat farther toward a side. The grey ALR mixes can do a great job of rejecting the light-colored floor's reflections though, so that would be a good alternative to a dark-colored rug beneath the screen if you dislike that idea/appearance.


Some light-grey 1.0-1.3 mixes for spraying a 140" screen:

---18oz FolkArt metallic + 18oz matte water-based polyurethane + 17oz water...around $28 in the US
The FolkArt mix is very watery/thin which means you'll need to spray your dusters thin/light/fast to avoid dripping, but it is the smoothest spraying mix I've seen so far. It's pretty translucent, so it can take several quick dusters to get the screen looking all grey when the lights are on. The FolkArt metallic is usually sold in 2oz tubes for around $2/each at Wal-Mart craft area or major art/craft shops. The metallic silversterling and metallic pearl will give a light-grey color.

---30oz Rustoleum Metallic Accents pearl + 15oz flat-grey "Universal Grey" + 15oz-23oz water...around $40 in the US
I'm not the biggest fan of the Rustoleum for spraying, but these light-colored mixes with modest gain are a little less likely to highlight the Rustoleum texturing if it happens.

---15oz Rustoleum Metallic Accents sterlingsilver + 30oz flat-white paint + 15oz-23oz water...around $40 in the US
Should be very similar as the mix directly above. The RustMAsilver is about 4X stronger than their pearl, so this can still get about 1.0-1.3peakgain.


Needs verification first..
---9oz Rustoleum Metallic Accents sterlingsilver + 3oz flat-white paint + 30oz matte water-based polyurethane + 14oz-21oz water...around $45 in the US
let me test this first. I like how adding matte polyurethane to the Rustoleum helps smooth it out, but in my tests so far it really needs a lot of polyurethane to make a noticeable difference and that can lose a lot of the metallic's gain (kind of like adding too much regular paint), so using much less regular paint helps the gain back up.
I've used a mix of 8parts poly and 1part Rustoleum Metallic silver without any regular paint..it was nicely smooth but only around 1.2gain roughly...and probably darker-grey than you'd want with that wide seating.
I've tried using a closer to 1:1 mix of Rustoleum Metallic and polyurethane with some matte-grey paint, but it wasn't enough poly to help the Rustoleum's texture problem noticeably.
I'm hoping to find something more helpful than the 1:1 poly+Rust but higher-gain than the 8:1 poly+rust so it can still add some regular paint to adjust the mix's color lighter or darker.
Sorry about the nerd rambling.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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post #9 of 29 Old 07-03-2018, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! That's really helpful! Does this one look like the right paint, if I go with the mix that has paint in it? Glidden Essentials White Base Flat Interior Paint & Primer, 3.7 L

OK, so I will hopefully buy the new projector around September, then mount it and see what size can I get away with in terms of projector placement and brightness (including 3D), then proceed with one of these mixes... I hope I can spray indoors without making a mess... How much masking do I need to make sure paint doesn't get to floor, ceiling and walls?

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post #10 of 29 Old 07-04-2018, 02:00 AM
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That looks like an appropriate paint. Often the online store will only sell pre-tinted paints while the physical store itself will also have slightly different-looking cans of the same brand and style which are tintable for them to make into whatever color you want. The lightest tintable (the one they'll use for making near-white colors, often called Base1/LightBase/tintable-WhiteBase) is what they'll likely use to make a flat light-grey if you get one..and, if left untinted, that lightest Base1/Light-Base can give a brighter and more neutral white compared to some pre-tinted "white" paint you may find.

Sometimes the pre-tinted "white" is actually a tiny bit blue-ish or slightly darker (or both) because that makes it a bit prettier on a wall or helps it slightly hide dirt from kids' hands. The tintable LightBase/Base1/WhiteBase on the other hand NEEDS to start off as bright and neutral as possible to provide bright and accurate colors when tinted..so it can have a slight but nice advantage when used untinted/as-is over some pre-made "white" paints as far as screens are concerned.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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Sorry if I missed it, do you have a particular sprayer picked out?
Some can be a bit easier for screen painting, and some can be more/less messy than others.

A full tent of thin painter plastic around the screen as well as on the floor and ceiling near the screen while you're painting should be able to handle pretty much anything, but the weaker/cheaper versions of the Wagner guns (and similar styles by other brands) may be less messy than you're thinking..which can be nice, though it's usually safer to prepare/plastic for the worst.

Do you have anywhere like an unfinished basement room or garage where you can practise spraying a little to get more familiar with the gun you'll be using and its overspray/mess (as well as finding good settings that work nicely with thinner mixes)?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #12 of 29 Old 07-04-2018, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Sorry if I missed it, do you have a particular sprayer picked out?
Some can be a bit easier for screen painting, and some can be more/less messy than others.

A full tent of thin painter plastic around the screen as well as on the floor and ceiling near the screen while you're painting should be able to handle pretty much anything, but the weaker/cheaper versions of the Wagner guns (and similar styles by other brands) may be less messy than you're thinking..which can be nice, though it's usually safer to prepare/plastic for the worst.

Do you have anywhere like an unfinished basement room or garage where you can practise spraying a little to get more familiar with the gun you'll be using and its overspray/mess (as well as finding good settings that work nicely with thinner mixes)?
I have a Wagner sprayer - don't remember the model but bought it on advise in this forum in 2008 for spraying the screen. Cost me about $60 canadian ($50 US) I think... I can practice in a cold room.
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post #13 of 29 Old 12-06-2019, 08:57 AM
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"Does this one look like the right paint, if I go with the mix that has paint in it? Glidden Essentials White Base Flat Interior Paint & Primer"

Thank you to RomanB thread starter...

So... Please... It doesn't matter if your Base Flat White is a "Paint + Primer"? For mixing with Metallic?

Thank you all... (My first post)
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post #14 of 29 Old 12-06-2019, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonnyblu42 View Post
"Does this one look like the right paint, if I go with the mix that has paint in it? Glidden Essentials White Base Flat Interior Paint & Primer"

Thank you to RomanB thread starter...

So... Please... It doesn't matter if your Base Flat White is a "Paint + Primer"? For mixing with Metallic?

Thank you all... (My first post)

@Sonnyblu42 ,


First...welcome to AVS's DIY Screen Forum!



You can certainly use a basic Flat Latex paint....the use of a Paint & primer" type is actually the preferred type of paint to use because it adds a tougher resiliency to the paint's surface

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post #15 of 29 Old 12-06-2019, 11:38 AM
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Thank you so much MississippiMan! Former Hoosier here also... I have enjoyed studying this Forum very much thus far.



I look forward to experimenting with the help of all the combined knowledge contained here.
Updating my PJ and screens as time goes by... built around a nice 5.2.2 ATMOS sound rig.

I started reading the posts here just a couple of weeks ago... and the more I read, the more confused I got! LOL


So... I'm going to start with just a simple 2 ingredient mix... Glidden Flat White Base (w/Primer) and Rust-O'leum Silver or Pearl


Thanks again!


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Let's try to dispel the confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonnyblu42 View Post
Thank you so much MississippiMan! Former Hoosier here also... I have enjoyed studying this Forum very much thus far.

I look forward to experimenting with the help of all the combined knowledge contained here.
Updating my PJ and screens as time goes by... built around a nice 5.2.2 ATMOS sound rig.

I started reading the posts here just a couple of weeks ago... and the more I read, the more confused I got! LOL

So... I'm going to start with just a simple 2 ingredient mix... Glidden Flat White Base (w/Primer) and Rust-O'leum Silver or Pearl

Thanks again!


To take advantage of what can be possible, you need to compile what is a simple but effective DIY Mix that contains the following components. While it my create more mix than needed, it does use the appropriate amounts to produce what is called the Silver Fire v2.5 N/C (no colorant) Reflective & Viscosity mix.:


32 oz. Rust-O'leum White Pearl
12 oz. Rust-O'leum Sterling Silver Metallic
16 oz. Rust-O'leum Ultimate Matte Polyurethane
16-20 oz Filtered or Distilled Water


Here is an explanation of the properties inherent in Silver Fire v2.5 N/C


  • The Pearl can be used in such higher amounts because it does not contain the darker element of "Black" within it's reflective Mica Particles
  • The Silver adds both a Grey Tint and a degree of Reflectivity that a simple Grey cannot. But it must be held in check to prevent a speckled appearance on screen.
  • The Polyurethane creates a bulk translucency that allows both of the reflective components to be evenly dispersed within the mix as well as their reflectivity to be correctly attenuated to a point where there is no excessive "sparkling".
  • The Water is a thinning agent that allows for the smoother flow of the paint through the suggested smaller Needle/Nozzles on Electric HVLP Guns.


So lets go on to your original request prefaced with some history tha explain the mechanics behind using the Silvers and Pearls...their advantages and their caveats.

Some years back (2003), my own first attempts at experimentation led me to combine Behr Ultra Pure White Flat Latex with an equal amount of Behr Premium Plus White Pearl and Behr Deep Base. Basically increasing the gain of the Behr White to 1.2-1.3

It was a real hit with DIY'ers...and became known as MississippiMud...(MMud)because it was a ooey, gooey sludge of a mix that was in the least difficult to Roll. (...yeah, there was I time when I rolled screens...)

However once that pinnacle was reached, it was ventured that improving Contrast would be nice. That is when the first attempt (...at least a success one...) was made by adding just a smidgen of Behr Premium Plus Silver Metallic (...only 2-4 oz.) The small amount was used because it was plain to see that using any more would create a grainy look with excessive sparklies. The Behr Silver also had a very dark Grey Base, so that too would tend to darken a mix too much, making all the Mica particles all the more apparent. That new, Silver Metallic-infused mix was labeled MMud-SM

It was not until Polyurethane was introduced to the MM-SM mix that a new label was added...RS-MaxxMud (Radiant Silver MM)

So things progress between 2003-2005. Through it all the primary goal was a brighter yet Contrast enhancing painted surface. But along the way it was discovered that Ambient Light "resistance" was gained...far more than any basic Grey surface could offer.

The final step up was Silver Fire. Existing components were substituted (Rust-O'Leum for Behr) and for the most aggressive ALR results, a RGBY ultra Dark Colorant was created, added in increments of ounces to make Silver Fire be anything from a light Whitish Silver to a very dark Pearlescent Grey. But through it all, the Silver Metallic was always the lessor percentage in any variation of the Mix, for the previously stated reasons and concerns.

It's not made a lot of sense to regress since that time. Adjustments to the percentages of combined components allow for the Mix's use in anything from a darkend Theater environment to brightly lit Family Rooms.

Sooooooo.......experiment all you want...but be advised to start out being conservative with the percentage of Silver you use. Adding too much Silver makes for a very difficult re-adjustment. A overriding reason I continue to advise and help fellow Members is to both streamline their route to completing a successful project, and to avoid the torment that comes with abject failure. And I've see too much of the latter...usually after the fact, and it's not a pretty sight.

Good luck....I hope at least some of the above helps you on your way. And should you want to jump ahead, just shout out and we'll "get'ter dun!"
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post #17 of 29 Old 12-09-2019, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
To take advantage of what can be possible, you need to compile what is a simple but effective DIY Mix that contains the following components. While it my create more mix than needed, it does use the appropriate amounts to produce what is called the Silver Fire v2.5 N/C (no colorant) Reflective & Viscosity mix.:


32 oz. Rust-O'leum White Pearl
12 oz. Rust-O'leum Sterling Silver Metallic
16 oz. Rust-O'leum Ultimate Matte Polyurethane
16-20 oz Filtered or Distilled Water


Here is an explanation of the properties inherent in Silver Fire v2.5 N/C


  • The Pearl can be used in such higher amounts because it does not contain the darker element of "Black" within it's reflective Mica Particles
  • The Silver adds both a Grey Tint and a degree of Reflectivity that a simple Grey cannot. But it must be held in check to prevent a speckled appearance on screen.
  • The Polyurethane creates a bulk translucency that allows both of the reflective components to be evenly dispersed within the mix as well as their reflectivity to be correctly attenuated to a point where there is no excessive "sparkling".
  • The Water is a thinning agent that allows for the smoother flow of the paint through the suggested smaller Needle/Nozzles on Electric HVLP Guns.


So lets go on to your original request prefaced with some history tha explain the mechanics behind using the Silvers and Pearls...their advantages and their caveats.

Some years back (2003), my own first attempts at experimentation led me to combine Behr Ultra Pure White Flat Latex with an equal amount of Behr Premium Plus White Pearl and Behr Deep Base. Basically increasing the gain of the Behr White to 1.2-1.3

It was a real hit with DIY'ers...and became known as MississippiMud...(MMud)because it was a ooey, gooey sludge of a mix that was in the least difficult to Roll. (...yeah, there was I time when I rolled screens...)

However once that pinnacle was reached, it was ventured that improving Contrast would be nice. That is when the first attempt (...at least a success one...) was made by adding just a smidgen of Behr Premium Plus Silver Metallic (...only 2-4 oz.) The small amount was used because it was plain to see that using any more would create a grainy look with excessive sparklies. The Behr Silver also had a very dark Grey Base, so that too would tend to darken a mix too much, making all the Mica particles all the more apparent. That new, Silver Metallic-infused mix was labeled MMud-SM

It was not until Polyurethane was introduced to the MM-SM mix that a new label was added...RS-MaxxMud (Radiant Silver MM)

So things progress between 2003-2005. Through it all the primary goal was a brighter yet Contrast enhancing painted surface. But along the way it was discovered that Ambient Light "resistance" was gained...far more than any basic Grey surface could offer.

The final step up was Silver Fire. Existing components were substituted (Rust-O'Leum for Behr) and for the most aggressive ALR results, a RGBY ultra Dark Colorant was created, added in increments of ounces to make Silver Fire be anything from a light Whitish Silver to a very dark Pearlescent Grey. But through it all, the Silver Metallic was always the lessor percentage in any variation of the Mix, for the previously stated reasons and concerns.

It's not made a lot of sense to regress since that time. Adjustments to the percentages of combined components allow for the Mix's use in anything from a darkend Theater environment to brightly lit Family Rooms.

Sooooooo.......experiment all you want...but be advised to start out being conservative with the percentage of Silver you use. Adding too much Silver makes for a very difficult re-adjustment. A overriding reason I continue to advise and help fellow Members is to both streamline their route to completing a successful project, and to avoid the torment that comes with abject failure. And I've see too much of the latter...usually after the fact, and it's not a pretty sight.

Good luck....I hope at least some of the above helps you on your way. And should you want to jump ahead, just shout out and we'll "get'ter dun!"
Thank you so much for this most informative post... and explanation of the evolution of the mixes. I am very grateful, and now I understand!
It's like listening to Jimi Hendrix for the first time... in 1969... I am Experienced! LOL



I have my base white screen completed...it's a 135 in. 16 x 10 screen... LOL Madness I say!



I now understand completely about the SilverFire mix... because in the short period of time I have had to experiment,
I have found my mixes of FolkArt Silver and White Pearl Medium (that I happen to have laying around)

much more satisfying than anything mixed with Rustoleum Metallic Silver.


I do not see my self mixing White Flat Base with Rustoleum Metallic Silver... kinda' bummed about that. It seems to do nothing.



But I do see the Folk Art Metallic shinning like looking through glass with greatly improved color. Now to find Rustoleum White Pearl...


These are very hard to find in Florida for some reason. I completely lucked out on finding the Rustoleum Silver.


Thanks again!
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post #18 of 29 Old 12-09-2019, 11:35 PM
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Thank you so much for this most informative post... and explanation of the evolution of the mixes. I am very grateful, and now I understand!
It's like listening to Jimi Hendrix for the first time... in 1969... I am Experienced! LOL

I have my base white screen completed...it's a 135 in. 16 x 10 screen... LOL Madness I say!

I now understand completely about the SilverFire mix... because in the short period of time I have had to experiment, I have found my mixes of FolkArt Silver and White Pearl Medium (that I happen to have laying around) much more satisfying than anything mixed with Rustoleum Metallic Silver.

I do not see my self mixing White Flat Base with Rustoleum Metallic Silver... kinda' bummed about that. It seems to do nothing.
But I do see the Folk Art Metallic shinning like looking through glass with greatly improved color. Now to find Rustoleum White Pearl...
These are very hard to find in Florida for some reason. I completely lucked out on finding the Rustoleum Silver.
Thanks again!
What does your can of Rustoleum Silver look like?

The specific one we're talking about is typically a clear container with a screw-top lid (like a big jar of peanutbutter), and it says;
"Rustoleum Metallic Accents" on the front.
If yours is different, that's probably why it isn't working the same.

I do really like the FolkArt metallic though..especially for sprayed mixes. It seems to spray smoother than the Rustoleum (even the right Rustoleum if it turns out yours is different).

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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Hello Ftoast! I have really enjoyed reading all your posts...


Yes.... It is the large 1 Quart peanut butter jar with the cream colored label.


This morning I am going to try a swatch of (rustoleum metallic silver) all by itself, since it is all I have at the moment.


And try to find the Rustoleum White Pearl... (I don't have much faith in this quest) ;-/



The FolkArt that I had was a Pearl "Base Medium"actually it was "DecoArt Pearlizing Medium"

made to add to other colors and a Sterling Silver... I can't believe the difference that the amount ratio makes... I have a swatch board with many combos of just these two colors (Pearl Medium and Sterling Silver) and some are great and others are not.
I did not keep record... ;-( it was my first.

I may have to go behind enemy lines to Hobby Lobby to find any of this stuff... I am not afraid however. Not yet anyway...



Again, Thank you Roman B Thread Starter... and I apologize for the hijack.

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So all these Pearls and Silvers look great head on... Does the adding of the Poly also help with the veiwing angle?
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So all these Pearls and Silvers look great head on... Does the adding of the Poly also help with the veiwing angle?
Yes, adding the poly (or the matte clear medium) can help to dim the peaky straight-on brightest spot (taming away hotspotting) and it can spread some of that brightness around a bit to slightly boost off-axis brightness a little. Mostly it evens out the brightness (by taming the brightest peak) so the image looks more uniformly bright instead of being so noticeably brighter in the front.
The more off-axis brightness you have (the wider viewing angles) does mean weaker and weaker light-fighting ability, but there's a lot of range where you can get good amounts of both..so it's a bit of a balancing act.


Mixing the Rustoleum MetallicAccents SilverSterling (is it SterlingSilver or Pewter or something else?) and matte water-based poly (or matte clear medium) should be able to work similarly to the FolkArt Silver and medium, but I still prefer the smoother finish of the FolkArt metallic when spraying.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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I guess my "Swatches" are not big enough yet to identify any Hot Spotting...

But, I sure would not wish to Dim Down any of the beautiful bright brilliant colors that I see from them right now.

Yes, I need to investigate the use of the Poly very carefully... I'm still looking for the RustOleum White Pearl... it's too GD expensive. :-(
If you could order one of "each color" when ordering from Home Depot (You must order two Quarts) that would be sort of OK at basically $25 each. Amazon wants $38.99 just for a single Quart of White Pearl... screw them... hard.
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Check Menards if you have one nearby.

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Originally Posted by Sonnyblu42 View Post
I guess my "Swatches" are not big enough yet to identify any Hot Spotting...

But, I sure would not wish to Dim Down any of the beautiful bright brilliant colors that I see from them right now.

Yes, I need to investigate the use of the Poly very carefully... I'm still looking for the RustOleum White Pearl... it's too GD expensive. :-(
If you could order one of "each color" when ordering from Home Depot (You must order two Quarts) that would be sort of OK at basically $25 each. Amazon wants $38.99 just for a single Quart of White Pearl... screw them... hard.
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Quote:
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Amazon wants $38.99 just for a single Quart of White Pearl... screw them... hard.

You get what you pay for in making an advanced DIY Screen, and spending up to $100 on paint supplies to create a screen that equals or surpasses a $2000 screen is a bargain that cannot be denied...


Careful shopping can help defray expense, but your not going to get where you want to be by trying to get there on a shoestring budget.

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post #25 of 29 Old 12-10-2019, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonnyblu42 View Post
I guess my "Swatches" are not big enough yet to identify any Hot Spotting...

But, I sure would not wish to Dim Down any of the beautiful bright brilliant colors that I see from them right now.

Yes, I need to investigate the use of the Poly very carefully... I'm still looking for the RustOleum White Pearl... it's too GD expensive. :-(
If you could order one of "each color" when ordering from Home Depot (You must order two Quarts) that would be sort of OK at basically $25 each. Amazon wants $38.99 just for a single Quart of White Pearl... screw them... hard.
I think the clear medium can work similarly like the matte poly, but I'm not 100% if the amounts/ratios work out exactly the same...but I like a half'n'half mix of clear and FolkArt metallic since it leaves the peak-gain around 0.8-1.4 (depending which color metallic/s you're using and how smooth your sprayed-on paintjob and surface are) and keeps nice enough uniformity to work well with many of the common throw-ratios projectors use...as long as they aren't short-throw models.
When I was experimenting with FolkArt metallic I found it a little too hot-spotty with too little matte-poly (3parts FAmetallic plus 1part poly was getting pretty borderline), and using more than a half'n'half mix of poly+FAmetallic (using 2parts poly plus 1part FAmetallic) made the painting more difficult because of how little pigment there was compared to how much clear liquid there was..really hard to tell exactly where your sprayed lines were going...plus I think the gain was a bit lower than I wanted.

The Rustoleum MetallicAccents SterlingSilver (at least the ones I've used) seems to have a much higher than average concentration of metallic/mica..as much as 8X stronger than average, letting it reach similar gain levels even when mixed with a lot more matte poly until it's something like 8oz poly plus only 1oz RustoleumMAsilver.

The Rustoleum MetallicAccents Pearl is much more typical having metallic strength that's similar or up to 2X stronger than other metallics I've used. This makes it the easier between the two Rustoleum products to make a substitution for if you need to while the RustSilver is a pretty unique beast.
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Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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Hey MississippiMan, is the lack of matte-white Glidden/PPG here done on purpose or was it an accident?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
While it my create more mix than needed, it does use the appropriate amounts to produce what is called the Silver Fire v2.5 N/C (no colorant) Reflective & Viscosity mix.:

32 oz. Rust-O'leum White Pearl
12 oz. Rust-O'leum Sterling Silver Metallic
16 oz. Rust-O'leum Ultimate Matte Polyurethane
16-20 oz Filtered or Distilled Water
  • The Pearl can be used in such higher amounts because it does not contain the darker element of "Black" within it's reflective Mica Particles
  • The Silver adds both a Grey Tint and a degree of Reflectivity that a simple Grey cannot. But it must be held in check to prevent a speckled appearance on screen.
  • The Polyurethane creates a bulk translucency that allows both of the reflective components to be evenly dispersed within the mix as well as their reflectivity to be correctly attenuated to a point where there is no excessive "sparkling".
  • The Water is a thinning agent that allows for the smoother flow of the paint through the suggested smaller Needle/Nozzles on Electric HVLP Guns.
I just now noticed the usual 10oz-20oz matte-white missing in the mix quote and wasn't sure if you were aiming for a much higher-gain mix or if it was a typo.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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Cut and Paste error that was not caught.

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Success! I'm all done... Thank you all!


I did change the formula quite a bit, to make it work for me.
I know you guys have this all scientifically figured out and take it quite personally LOL


What worked for me was...

32oz Rustoleum White Pearl, only 8 oz of Rustoleum Matte Poly and only 4 Tablespoons of Rustoleum Metallic Silver!


I sampled everything... many formulas, but this is what worked best for me. It was fun...



Thank you all again so much.
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Success! I'm all done... Thank you all!

I did change the formula quite a bit, to make it work for me.
I know you guys have this all scientifically figured out and take it quite personally LOL

What worked for me was...
32oz Rustoleum White Pearl, only 8 oz of Rustoleum Matte Poly and only 4 Tablespoons of Rustoleum Metallic Silver!

I sampled everything... many formulas, but this is what worked best for me. It was fun...
Thank you all again so much.
Thanks for coming back to let us know what you discovered and made. Sounds like it should have some serious gain/brightness to it!
Can you post some pictures of your new screen for us all to gaze upon?


EDIT: I'm guessing that should make an N8-N8.5 colored mix with over 1.5peak-gain (maybe as much as 2.0gain?). I bet it looks awesome.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 01-02-2020 at 08:56 PM.
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