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post #31 of 54 Old 07-28-2018, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, me too.. I never got confirmation on the paint mix, but not in a big rush because I got rear ended and have been trying to sort that out in my free time.. looking at cars and such.
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post #32 of 54 Old 07-29-2018, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by audiosq View Post
Yeah, me too.. I never got confirmation on the paint mix, but not in a big rush because I got rear ended and have been trying to sort that out in my free time.. looking at cars and such.
I had made my best recommendation. I didn't feel the need to respond to the suggestion (2x) about changing it because the original Mix is better, and dismissed the need to do so based on knowing the outcome....so if that held you up, sorry for that.

What seems so obvious and settled to me can (...and often does") get lost in translation, let alone if not addressed.

To respond, I'll just say that any darkening of the mix with the Gray Base of the Silver Metallic would result in a lower loss of Gain than would be had by just comparatively darkening the White Base further. The use of the latter being responsible for significantly lowering the Gain.

The proven reasoning being that while a given amount of Pearl in a mix accomplishes something....the Silver also adds both additional Reflective elements and a Tinted Base. But too high a ratio of Silver can create visible artifacts such as "light, dirty looking Graininess" or overly visible crystalline "Sparklies". The darker the Base, the more the reflective particles can stand out...especially if too many are at right angle to the incoming light. Spraying does of course greatly lesson such concerns, but worst case....a few "flattened" particles can jump out at you if ensconced in the surface of a darker than usual substrate.

The mix as listed uses a smaller amount of Silver to acquire Silver's Color & Contrast benefits while warding off the less desirable effects that having a higher percentage of Silver can create. Already the concession was made to just simply augment the depth of Gray by tinting the White Base a light shade of Gray...so the only additional "Gray tinting" is accompanied with additional Mica. This should at least allow for a darker shading of Gray without the gain plummeting.

And all that...the Mix provided...is / was structured to virtually (ie hopefully) prevent that speckled, sparkly appearance.

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post #33 of 54 Old 05-15-2020, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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It's only taken me two years, but I'm finally going to get around to this. I'm going to use the below mixture unless someone states otherwise. I'm going to roll it on. Hope the wall skimming goes well.

46oz. Rustoleum Metallic Accents -
White Pearl
12 oz. Rustoleum Metallic Accents - Sterling Silver
27 oz. Glidden interior essentials Base1 Flat tinted to UniversalGrey
32 oz. Polyurethane - Matte Finish (water based)
32 oz. water (to start..adding more in small increments of needed)
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post #34 of 54 Old 05-15-2020, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by audiosq View Post
It's only taken me two years, but I'm finally going to get around to this. I'm going to use the below mixture unless someone states otherwise. I'm going to roll it on. Hope the wall skimming goes well.

46oz. Rustoleum Metallic Accents -
White Pearl
12 oz. Rustoleum Metallic Accents - Sterling Silver
27 oz. Glidden interior essentials Base1 Flat tinted to UniversalGrey
32 oz. Polyurethane - Matte Finish (water based)
32 oz. water (to start..adding more in small increments of needed)

And you will be rolling it...right? And upon what surface? (Wall it seems) What size will the image be overall, and is the PJ still the 2150?

27 oz of Grey Base is excessive. Use 16 oz first and then eyeball


I would then add in the remaining 11 oz as a pure White


Lastly, since your Rolling, only add 20 oz Water initially and then judge viscosity. Then add if needed, but that's doubtful, You don't want the Paint to literally pour off the roller.

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post #35 of 54 Old 05-15-2020, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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The wall is 15'x9' although the image will only be about 130". Still the Epson.

Do I need to do any sort of prime coat? Should I paint a layer of just the universal grey first? Thanks.
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post #36 of 54 Old 05-15-2020, 05:02 PM
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The initial layer should be a Flat bright White....and your rolled SF top coats should be as thinly applied as possible while still effecting complete and even coverage.

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post #37 of 54 Old 05-15-2020, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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So I need to get another can of paint besides the universal grey? Do I just get the same Gliddon base 1 without the tint?

I have some 1/4 inch white rollers, can I use those for the base coat? Do I need to switch to trim rollers when applying the mix?
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post #38 of 54 Old 05-16-2020, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by audiosq View Post
So I need to get another can of paint besides the universal grey? Do I just get the same Gliddon base 1 without the tint?

Yes


Quote:
I have some 1/4 inch white rollers, can I use those for the base coat? Do I need to switch to trim rollers when applying the mix?

No.....you need at least 9" wide rollers. 1/4" Nap rollers need to be of the Lint-Free, shed-less variety. But be advised that using 1/4"Nap rollers require that you be all the more carefulabout developing Roller Marks. I suggest 3/8"Nap cloth Rollers of a good quality.

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post #39 of 54 Old 05-16-2020, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Cloth? Is that the microfiber roller?

Do I filter the paint or is that only if you spray?
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post #40 of 54 Old 05-16-2020, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by audiosq View Post
Cloth? Is that the microfiber roller?

Do I filter the paint or is that only if you spray?

Rollers are clearly marked as being Foam or Cloth or in a few cases, Micro Fiber. A Cloth Roller feels soft...plushy, even when it is low nap (3/8"), and it holds a lot of paint evenly without excessive drip-page. That is why a good Cloth Roller Cover cost 2x+ what a basic Roller Cover would.

(...here's a Tip: Slightly dampen a Cloth Roller with water before loading it with paint...and another Tip: Between coats, don't try to rinse the Roller. Place it in a 1 Gallon size Ziplock Baggie or a plastic bag from the Grocery Store *keep it on the Roller Wand* and seal the top with a Rubber Band. Gotta wait overnight to do the next coat? Place the Bag in the Fridge. Saves $$$ on good covers)

Yeah...you should always strain paint. You can slosh up a chunk of solid paint, or some some other type of debris at anytime otherwise, and when the object is to get a smooth, blemish free surface, it doesn't take a very big clump or foreign object to stand out on the surface. Also...when you use Metallic paints, ones based on the use of Mica (...a coated mineral) there is ALWAYS some amount of actual "stone" or chips of such present. You don't seem to notice them much when they are coated with paint...but they still will leave a "lump"or show up as a dark spot. (...and of course they would quickly clog up the nozzle / needle of a Spray gun...)


Get yerself a package of these:

Strainer Bags: https://www.amazon.com/Trimaco-LLC-2...dp/B00K09BI0W/

So here...look at the image below. It is a Filter Bag with rinsed Chips and Rocks....and it came from straining Black Flame, which uses better quality components than you would purchase separately making up Silver Fire.Just try to imagine them embedded in your projection surface.




All this stuff to be concerned about when rolling is exactly why I switched to spraying back when spraying involved a much higher cost. (Pressure Tank / Hoses/ decent HVLP Guns / In-Inle Filters...) Even when the first Electric HVLPs hit the market, they could and would effectively trounce any attempt at rolling for quality results...if used correctly, which BTW wasn't nearly as difficult to explain to Members how to manage to do as was trying to teach someone the art of wielding a Roller perfectly.


You bought into the idea of Rolling because you were told it was easy and affordable...(...or less messy?) but that all is actually not true, especially when taking into consideration just how easy it is to get a virtually perfect surface these days using an Electric HVLP Gun that costs at/under $100.00


Now, what with using what is essentially a version of Silver Fire 2.5 Adjusted (for rolling), your going to get as good a result as whatever your rolling skills can muster up. It would be wise to not fudge on or ignore advice intended to at least go as far as possible to assure you of a successful end result.
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post #41 of 54 Old 05-16-2020, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh alright.. I'll spray. What's the gun recommendation these days? Prefer not to go over $100. If I spray do I just increase the water to 32oz?
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post #42 of 54 Old 05-16-2020, 03:32 PM
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Oh alright.. I'll spray. What's the gun recommendation these days? Prefer not to go over $100. If I spray do I just increase the water to 32oz?






.........your too easy.


$99.00 sprayer
https://www.rockler.com/homeright-super-finish-max-hvlp-paint-sprayer
There are of course less expensive Sprayers....but as in most cases you get exactly what you pay for. There are a couple others that run up into the $130.00 range, and you get what you pay for with them as well. But we just got you on board the "Spray Train" so I'm not a'gonna push it!


Here is an essential tool:
Mixing Wand: https://www.amazon.com/Marshalltown-PM798-Cyclone-Paint-Mixer/dp/B00NJYB3SM/
The Wand above is on the order of a magnitude more effectiveat stirring / mixing paint than anything else you can consider buying..

Dusting Directions:


Each coat is applied in a "Duster" Fashion.

Dusting on Paint consists of applying the paint in very rapidly applied coats that each take about 1 minute to apply and 15-25 min. to dry between applications. The secret being to apply the very loose, wet mix in incremental steps, each layer consisting of "Freckle-like dots of paint, each subsequent layer gradually filling in the spaces left behind. Over the course of the coats, the surfacegoes from looking freckled to looking completely uniform

The first step is to place the screen in the location it will inhabit (...if possible...) or to Tape off the area of the Wall to be sprayed. The surface should be as smooth and free of defects (...bumps-cracks-pits/pinholes-previous Roller Marks...) as possible, as any high contrast paint that is smoothly applied will tend to highlight such defects. Expanded PVC Foam board is a favorite material. 6 mm thick and as large as 60' x 120". Larger "ultra smooth" surfaces can be had by using Vinyl sheeting, Blackout Cloth....or my favorite...smoothed Drywall.

After placing / marking off the screen, you'll need to mask off the area surrounding the perimeter of the screen / frame with Plastic or paper sheeting. If the top of the screen is within 36" of the ceiling or a adjoining "right angle" wall, those surfaces should also be masked to at least 48" from the spraying location. (...Actually, it's best to mask any adjacent surface.) Loosely draped, thin plastic can cover any Furniture, and the Floor below the screen should have a Plastic 2 mil> Drop Cloth that stretches to at least 2'-3' to either side of the bottom of the screen.(...or to each side-wall...) A Ceiling can have9' x 12' x 0.7 mil Plastic applied using Thumbtacks and Blue Taped joint areas.

If the Screen is a material built onto / stretched across a Frame that makes the screen surface "stand off" the wall more than 1", then an effort should be made to level out the edge's "drop-off" using Cardboard strips or tightly stretched Plastic Sheeting (2 mil) so that the Spray will not "Vortex" (swirl) at the edge. That results in less paint being applied along such drop-off edges....and focusing more spray on such areas is NOT what you want to do! (...Runs "will" occur!...)


Of course before you press the trigger and shoot onto the screen, it is highly advisable that you determine paint viscosity through the drainage rate you see going through the Bag Filter. Drainage rate should be thus....you pour in the paint at the same rate you pour milk into a glass. The paint should start to fill up the depression on the Top of the Filter Bag, but at the 1/2 way point, the drainage rate catches up and the paint continues to strain through. Once you stop pouring, the paint level should recede fairly quickly. Go here on YouTube to view Duster Painting videos and Paint straining examples: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvSoeOH0cod9j71AoUsRsPA

After you have the thinned paint strained and loaded into the Gun's Cup, you need to determine just how fast / how much paint is coming out of the Gun. Get a spare piece of board and do some trial squirts. If after just 1 second of spraying in one location from 12" to 14" from the surface you should have a very discernible 12" tall stripe of paint. If 1 full second results in an immediate "wet" run of paint, you MUST strictly adhere to the following spraying directions!

Starting on either the right or left top of the area to be sprayed, and at least 8"-12" to the side, the Gun is held level to the surface at 14" away and so that fully 1/2 of the ensuing spray pattern is above the top edge of the screen area. Press the trigger and immediately start moving across the screen surface at a rate of 3' per second. Translated...that means your walking sideways at a normal pace....NOT slowly..and the Gun is following at that same pace.

After reaching the other side you continue on another 12" then drop down no more than the height of your Fist (4") and head back the opposite direction. Repeat continuously until you reach the bottom edge to the screen surface, and finish by again overlapping the bottom edge by at least 50-60%

Remember this...it's always better to apply too little and have to do another coat. Correcting Runs, or even dealing with what is known as Orange Peel (...too thick coatings...) is far more difficult than is simply applying another corrective coat. (...but note the following warning below...)

Stop. Do NOT EVER immediately go back attempt to correct any weaker areas where you might have wavered. Let the dusted-on paint dry at least 15-25 minutes. Drying can be (...and should be...) assisted by by using a large, clean elevated Floor Fan or Pole Fan, and if possible, by raising the ambient room temperature to at least 70 degrees. ( 21 degrees Celsius) Those steps are what makes the screen dry quickly between Dusters....as fast as 15 minutes for the 1st 3-4 coats, and no more than 25-30 minutes for the 5th to 8th coats. Recently, some have experience full coverage with 6coats. Examine the screen carefully...if when viewed from every direction it looks uniformly coated....your done.

Lastly, revisiting the start...be not distressed at how "freckled" the Screen will look at even the 3rd or 4th coat. Dusting means applying spots of paint that dry very quickly, with each of the subsequent coats filling in the gaps left behind until after 7-8 coats the entire surface looks uniformly covered. (...this always bears repeating...)

That is it. The process is less involved (...and easier....) than reading / absorbing the directions...I assure you.

BUT...if you have ANY questions, ask before you squirt! Issue in the middle? Again...stop and ask before proceeding.

As I am apt to do, I have PM'd you a contact number should you need any "Real Time" advice during the mixing/straining/Painting process. The lag in answering posted pleas can be quite disconcerting.
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post #43 of 54 Old 05-16-2020, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the very informative post. Sounds a lot like how I use a can of spray paint. I have a mixer for joint compound. It looks like two circles. Could I use that for the paint or Is the one you posted really a step up?

I'm ok paying a little more if the gun is a pretty good improvement. Feel free I share the other options. Thanks again.
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post #44 of 54 Old 05-17-2020, 06:37 AM
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Thanks for the very informative post. Sounds a lot like how I use a can of spray paint. I have a mixer for joint compound. It looks like two circles. Could I use that for the paint or Is the one you posted really a step up?
It absolutely is! A Cyclone (Squirrel Cage) Mixer as shown is well over 400x more efficient than any Paddle or Blade mixing tool. Especially when/for mixing "paint" at slower speeds so as to not introduce air bubbles. 1 minute (...or less...) of mixing with a Cyclone at low speed equals 5 minutes of mixing using more conventional mixing tools

Quote:
I'm ok paying a little more if the gun is a pretty good improvement. Feel free I share the other options. Thanks again.
Well there are certainly reasonable choices that give you more options and practical uses.

If for instance your painting would involve more "Indoor" work, the Earlex / Rockler sprayer linked to just below (...w/additional 1 mm Needle Kit...) would be the very best choice. It is the type of Sprayer I use for all the Screen projects I'm involved with....if that is enough of assurance that it is the better choice.

https://www.rockler.com/rockler-hvlp-finishing-sprayer
https://www.rockler.com/1-0mm-needle...ishing-sprayer


Otherwise, if painting outside might be on the agenda, a "All in One" hand held "Corded" Turbine like the first one suggested would be best...as it has a reach limited only by the length of Electrical Cord your using. BTW...the HomeRight also has an available 1.0 mm Needle Kit, although if one is careful enough, the 1.5 mm Needle supplied is "ok" to use, just not as preferred as using a 1.0 needle for the absolute best and most smoothest finishes.

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post #45 of 54 Old 05-19-2020, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I did my first skim coat tonight (wall just has light texture), came out not so great. I want to blame the knife, but it's more the guy holding it. Maybe I should have used more water or put it on thicker.. I dunno. Is it better to sand before I do another coat or is that not necessary? Should I touch up any particularly bad spots before doing another coat?
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post #46 of 54 Old 05-20-2020, 01:55 AM
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Always work with the coat you have....sand it as smoothly as possible...lightly....the reapply more mud..


Each coat should sevice to fillin low spots or smooth over high spots left behind. Sanding skims is easy....sanding down excessively heavy mudded areas is not

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post #47 of 54 Old 05-20-2020, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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And how flat does the wall need to be? I can't tell by looking at it, but if I hold a level up to the wall there are gaps.. we're talking milimeters.
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post #48 of 54 Old 05-20-2020, 05:02 PM
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And how flat does the wall need to be? I can't tell by looking at it, but if I hold a level up to the wall there are gaps.. we're talking milimeters.

As long as the wall's surface is smooth, a very slight waviness due to uneven studs might be OK....but when you speak of "millimeters" as in plural (2-3?) it adds up.


A 3 millimeter rise or dip amounts to 1/8" and that amount would be what I would consider the absolute maximum. More often one deals with 1/16". If when you move the 4' level around the gaps are just sporadic spot areas, then you can attempt to fill them up.


Whatever the case, the only time such very small differences in the levelness of a surface can be seen is one views the screen from directly from the side....almost "ear to the wall".


Anything more than 1/8" would result in small differences in focused detail.


The exception being UST projected images...those must have a virtually perfectly flat surface that is precisely at right angle to the projector.

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post #49 of 54 Old 05-23-2020, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm sanding down the second coat of mud and I'm really struggling with getting rid of chatter from the skim coat.. I don't know what to really call it. It's a texture I get when skimming. I can't seem to get a consistent smooth skim. I've tried a few knives and a couple different types of compound with various amounts of water. I was hoping to sand it away, but I think it's taking too much off. Any tips?
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post #50 of 54 Old 05-24-2020, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Went ahead and did a third coat. It looks promising. Very slight orange peel in some spots, but I think they should sand out. How smooth do the areas that aren't going to be part of the screen need to be? Will the metallics make those spots stand out much if it's not being projected on? I'll sand then, but maybe not spend so much time on those areas.
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post #51 of 54 Old 05-24-2020, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiosq View Post
Went ahead and did a third coat. It looks promising. Very slight orange peel in some spots, but I think they should sand out. How smooth do the areas that aren't going to be part of the screen need to be? Will the metallics make those spots stand out much if it's not being projected on? I'll sand then, but maybe not spend so much time on those areas.

What I have found from prior non-screen walls, the smoother you can get it, the better. I strongly recommend this inexpensive vac from Amazon, it makes FAR less mess than anything else. Just use finer & finer screens. At the end, I will go over it with a very fine sanding block.


https://www.amazon.com/Hyde-Tools-09...0347990&sr=8-3


It's under $20, best $$ you could spend!
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post #52 of 54 Old 05-24-2020, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiosq View Post
I'm sanding down the second coat of mud and I'm really struggling with getting rid of chatter from the skim coat.. I don't know what to really call it. It's a texture I get when skimming. I can't seem to get a consistent smooth skim. I've tried a few knives and a couple different types of compound with various amounts of water. I was hoping to sand it away, but I think it's taking too much off. Any tips?

The trick is to keep the Knife almost flat to the Wall while applying light even pressure along it's edge and "swiping" the wall "ONCE" and letting it go. What you describe is something that comes from overworking the surface.


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Originally Posted by audiosq View Post
Went ahead and did a third coat. It looks promising. Very slight orange peel in some spots, but I think they should sand out. How smooth do the areas that aren't going to be part of the screen need to be? Will the metallics make those spots stand out much if it's not being projected on? I'll sand then, but maybe not spend so much time on those areas.

Yes...for the best esults, every possible effort needs to bemade to create a blemish free surface devoid of Texture, Pin-Holes, Knife Marks or Scratches.


Both the Metallic content and the Grey Base are Contrast enhancers...and that means that any surface irregularities that either stand up and show shadows around their edges, or if they sink below the general surface they will show a dark spot. Getting as close to perfection is worth it......and if you do all you then have to worry about is spraying a perfect surface. See....easy!


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTBDOC View Post
What I have found from prior non-screen walls, the smoother you can get it, the better. I strongly recommend this inexpensive vac from Amazon, it makes FAR less mess than anything else. Just use finer & finer screens. At the end, I will go over it with a very fine sanding block.

https://www.amazon.com/Hyde-Tools-09...0347990&sr=8-3

It's under $20, best $$ you could spend!

That Sir...is what makes sanding in a person's (Wife's) Home a far less risky proposition. A highly advisable tool to have at hand when sanding larger sized areas. My only revision being that when your doing screen walls or selected areas, every effort to make the area already smooth as possible before using such a tool is of great importance. Using anything other than a Fine Grit Sponge or Mesh-Type Sanding Sheet is simply asking for gouging, scratching, or excessive material removal.


Now, I'm heading to my stash (beer) and I hope the general trend toward Fire prevention has been eased.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
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post #53 of 54 Old 05-24-2020, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I was only going over it once. The dust is fierce.. it's as bad as mdf. I tented off the area though so it is at least contained.. mostly.
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post #54 of 54 Old 05-24-2020, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiosq View Post
I was only going over it once. The dust is fierce.. it's as bad as mdf. I tented off the area though so it is at least contained.. mostly.

When your doing large surfaces and needing to sand, dust is gonna happen. How you sand however is going to determine how much of the dust get's thrown into the air.



Work all obvious areas with short, light stokes that cross a point / line. focus first on the edge lines...but not too long. Do not over-work over only any specific area. Always move either laterally or vertically. Short strokes will just push the dust ahead and let it rain down onto the Plastic. Always the 1st focus is on the areas where there is the most mud / highest points. Only after they have been addressed do you start sanding the general Skimmed area. Long strokes too soon tend to take of equal amounts everywhere.


Long strokes (done lightly) and with a gentle sweeping rhythm that makes each successive sweep overlap the latter by 50%. Just be aware of where you are and keep moving. Make the emphasis not so much on removing but smoothing.



More Ribs are waiting.....bye.

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