Material orientation/thickness choice - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 11 Old 03-11-2019, 04:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Material orientation/thickness choice

I am getting ready to build an approximately 117" 16x9 frame for some Dark Energy Abyss material that I purchased on the forum. I have been reading through build threads and it seems like there is a pretty even mix of people who are using 1x4 laid flat with quarter round to stand the material off, and people who are using smaller 1x3 lumber on edge. I would like to get the screen as flat to the wall as I can so the laid flat style appeals to me. It seems like I could also use 1x2 lumber on edge, however I haven't seen anyone else do this. My thought process is as I can get the same standoff from the wall as 1x4s plus quarter round and still have a stiffer frame because the material is 1.5" thick instead of .75". Bonus is that 1x2 is a lot cheaper than 1x4. Or am I totally off base and the extra width of the 1x4 makes it stronger than a 1x2 on edge? What do you guys think?
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post #2 of 11 Old 03-11-2019, 08:23 AM
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Hi!


I'm very familiar with DEA material....


The key to a good "Flat Frame" is choosing good lumber. Poplar is essentially the best choice.


1x2s "carefully"chosen can work very well with DEA that is laminated onto a thicker 1/2" material (...is is Sintra?) 1.5" thick seems to be heavier substrate than I have ever heard Stephen put it onto before. Can you verify that?


Let me know and we can get you started down the road.

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post #3 of 11 Old 03-11-2019, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Hi!


I'm very familiar with DEA material....


The key to a good "Flat Frame" is choosing good lumber. Poplar is essentially the best choice.


1x2s "carefully"chosen can work very well with DEA that is laminated onto a thicker 1/2" material (...is is Sintra?) 1.5" thick seems to be heavier substrate than I have ever heard Stephen put it onto before. Can you verify that?


Let me know and we can get you started down the road.
Sorry I wasn't clear, the DEA is not the laminated type, it is DIY flexible material from this ad: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/252-f...-material.html.

Edit: And yes, I've read pretty extensively on these forums about other peoples builds and I will be using poplar and got myself a kreg jig for fastening.

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post #4 of 11 Old 03-11-2019, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcg27 View Post
Sorry I wasn't clear, the DEA is not the laminated type, it is DIY flexible material from this ad: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/252-f...-material.html.

Edit: And yes, I've read pretty extensively on these forums about other peoples builds and I will be using poplar and got myself a kreg jig for fastening.



That's all good. I'll review and respond in depth soon.

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post #5 of 11 Old 03-12-2019, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
That's all good. I'll review and respond in depth soon.
Thanks, very much appreciated. To clarify a little further, the 1.5 inches would be the standoff from the wall using 1x2s on edge for the frame or 1x4s flat plus a 3/4" piece of quarter round. I was attempting to say the 1.5 inches off the wall would be more desirable for me than the 2.5 inches you would get from a 1x3 on edge.

Also, while I have your attention, do you have any opinion on the epson 5040 vs upcoming 5050? I was planning to hold out for the 5050 but current rumor is that it will debut at $2999, and with the 5040 currently at $1999 plus a free spare bulb it seems like a lot of value.
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post #6 of 11 Old 03-12-2019, 05:29 PM
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The 5050 was -is-remains exactly that......a rumor. Certainly so much so (no mention by Epson of anything...) that you don't want to base your immediate future plans around it.

The 5040 is a real deal....and inexpensive enough to warrant...even justify an 4k upgrade down the road.

And....if you haven't used the spare Lamp by then, it will be an even more irresistible quick seller on the AVS Classified.

As for remounting the DEA, you'll be best served to scale down the size just enough to effect a full wrap around your Frame to achieve a Border-less, zero edged look.


Frame design....


The image area of the 117"er is 58" x 102". While that's not huge, with the DEA you want a very flat, "squared face" and the issue with building a 3/4" Flat frame is two fold.
  1. You have to get the Corners square and the Kreg Screws in straight. Any twist at all is magnified down the Length...and the height, and when helped along with the medium tension you want to stretch the DEA with, again, any thing "off" will show.
  2. You have to use a Quarter Round Trim for a Standoff.

Simply put, a fully Flat frame presents potential issues. You have to design one right, and assemble it right just to get the best results, and with a DEA, done right and set-up right, it's among the very best of it's type.


Now this is what I suggest. It happens to be close to your own idea.


Hand picked straight Poplar lumber in the 1x3 size can be the largest side used. The DEA likes a firm, even stretch, so 1x2s on edge for the exterior, and 1x3s laid flat to the Rear Edge for the interior vertical supports will work nicely. You'd want 4 Vertical "Interior" Supports. You'll build 4 Corner / Front edge assemblies.


So....here's a drawing to help things along.


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post #7 of 11 Old 03-13-2019, 03:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
The 5050 was -is-remains exactly that......a rumor. Certainly so much so (no mention by Epson of anything...) that you don't want to base your immediate future plans around it.

The 5040 is a real deal....and inexpensive enough to warrant...even justify an 4k upgrade down the road.

And....if you haven't used the spare Lamp by then, it will be an even more irresistible quick seller on the AVS Classified.

As for remounting the DEA, you'll be best served to scale down the size just enough to effect a full wrap around your Frame to achieve a Border-less, zero edged look.


Frame design....


The image area of the 117"er is 58" x 102". While that's not huge, with the DEA you want a very flat, "squared face" and the issue with building a 3/4" Flat frame is two fold.
  1. You have to get the Corners square and the Kreg Screws in straight. Any twist at all is magnified down the Length...and the height, and when helped along with the medium tension you want to stretch the DEA with, again, any thing "off" will show.
  2. You have to use a Quarter Round Trim for a Standoff.

Simply put, a fully Flat frame presents potential issues. You have to design one right, and assemble it right just to get the best results, and with a DEA, done right and set-up right, it's among the very best of it's type.


Now this is what I suggest. It happens to be close to your own idea.


Hand picked straight Poplar lumber in the 1x3 size can be the largest side used. The DEA likes a firm, even stretch, so 1x2s on edge for the exterior, and 1x3s laid flat to the Rear Edge for the interior vertical supports will work nicely. You'd want 4 Vertical "Interior" Supports. You'll build 4 Corner / Front edge assemblies.


So....here's a drawing to help things along.


That drawing is great, thanks! That is mostly similar to my thoughts with the addition of the 1x3s up against the 1x2s on the edge. Is the best order of construction here to join the outer 1x2 box, then add in the interior 1x3 vertical supports from outside to inside?
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post #8 of 11 Old 03-13-2019, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcg27 View Post
That drawing is great, thanks! That is mostly similar to my thoughts with the addition of the 1x3s up against the 1x2s on the edge. Is the best order of construction here to join the outer 1x2 box, then add in the interior 1x3 vertical supports from outside to inside?

The End Corner Assemblies should be done first...then the Long spans joining the End Assemblies


Next is the two innermost Supports, followed by the two outlying supports, and then the French Cleat.


You can add "small sized" Quarter Round to the leading edge of the Frame, with the Curve sloping Inward. A good wood Glue is best to use, so you can avoid using very many 1" Wire Brad Finish Nails, the Heads of which should be carefully set below the surface of the QR.



Be certain to sand every edge to a slightly rounded smoothed state (...and especially the Corners...) that the DEA will pull over. You don't want any tears or snags!


If at all possible, have an extra pair of hands to help with this job. Treat the DEA material with care & kindness.




Drawing Not measured Scale
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post #9 of 11 Old 03-13-2019, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok thanks that sounds reasonable. I also have a pocket hole clamp which should help with keeping things aligned (https://www.amazon.com/Milescraft-40...r=8-1-fkmrnull).

I really appreciate the drawings, they should give me a good guide to follow. Hopefully I'll be able to work on the frame this weekend and next unless something comes up so I'll keep things updated on my progress.
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post #10 of 11 Old 03-13-2019, 10:04 AM
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Your welcome.....


Such things are a case of "More is Less"....more info...less chance of having unexpected issues.
And always...always never worry about asking questions first, and "doing" second.



So under that premise I'm always glad to provide whatever level of assistance I can.

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post #11 of 11 Old 03-24-2019, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I've made pretty good progress on the screen. Got it together without any major issues, the Kreg and pocket hole clamp were a great help with that. Got the screen stapled to the frame and it up on the wall. Only issue is that my wall appears to not be flat, the screen is flush with the wall on one side and about an inch out on the other. I'm pretty confident the frame itself is flat so I put a small spacer to fill in the gap. We'll see if that ends up causing any issues.

I know 117" isn't big for a lot of you but it sure makes m old 50" plasma look tiny!
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