Silver Ticket frame, just add spandex! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 34 Old 04-09-2019, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Silver Ticket frame, just add spandex!

I have a 110" Silver Ticket non-AT screen at the moment and don't have any complaints with it. Projector is a 5030UB Epson about 12 feet from lens to screen with great light control in the room.

To have matching LCR channels and add absorption on the front wall, AT will be the answer. I've done enough reading to see that 1X white over 1X black milliskin from Spandex World is a pretty good option for me. I understand I'll be taking a hit on
Questions: Has anyone retrofitted spandex onto the Silver Ticket frame? I did some searching a while back and recall a thread using Screen Tite (sp?) channel and spline. This is my first thought. Any other suggestions for attaching/stretching behind the aluminum frame?

Also, should I buy 3 or 4 yards of material for the 110" diagonal frame?

Here's my arrangement prior to the DIY LCR speakers that are being added.


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post #2 of 34 Old 04-09-2019, 02:37 PM
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3 yards


Screen Tite would be a good choice

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post #3 of 34 Old 04-09-2019, 04:09 PM
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DIY speakers FTW! Are you going entirely DIY, going off a known design, or getting a kit?

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post #4 of 34 Old 04-10-2019, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks @MississippiMan !


Quote:
Originally Posted by thegeek View Post
DIY speakers FTW! Are you going entirely DIY, going off a known design, or getting a kit?

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It's a known kit by Bill Fitzmaurice. Since I went a little crazy with how I built the baffles, it wasn't a super easy build, but came together pretty well. I'll be posting a build thread for them in the DIY speaker section pretty soon. I really want the matching (but all black) center channel put behind the screen first.
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post #5 of 34 Old 04-10-2019, 06:37 AM
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Three identical LCRs is a pretty nice setup, you should be happy with it. If you've ever listened to one you'll realize what's always been wrong and never want to go back. There's lots to love about line arrays.

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post #6 of 34 Old 04-10-2019, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
Thanks @MississippiMan !

It's a known kit by Bill Fitzmaurice. Since I went a little crazy with how I built the baffles, it wasn't a super easy build, but came together pretty well. I'll be posting a build thread for them in the DIY speaker section pretty soon. I really want the matching (but all black) center channel put behind the screen first.

Those Mains look like top end KEFs on Steroids!





When you position that Center Channel you might consider Rotating it to improve it's HF dispersion.
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post #7 of 34 Old 04-10-2019, 09:38 AM
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KEF's schtick is their concentric tweeter/mid-range driver. After playing with a pair of DIYSG Volt 10s I'm pretty firm on being in the camp of liking concentrics. All the sound simply comes from one place. It doesn't seem like it's normally an issue because we're used to it but when you're closer and the apparent angle is wider it's sometimes a bit of a disjoint to me to hear different frequencies coming from two different point sources. That was even before having the Volts.

In practical terms a piano has different frequencies coming from different places, to say nothing of a pipe organ. There's usually a mountain of diffusion with those instruments anyway and those are the exceptions versus other instruments.

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post #8 of 34 Old 04-10-2019, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Those Mains look like top end KEFs on Steroids!

When you position that Center Channel you might consider Rotating it to improve it's HF dispersion.
Yeah, I'm considering it. With the vertical pattern control of the line array, I'm really on the fence about making changes to arrangement of the center compared to the L&R. There is a tremendous response change when you stand up from the couch. That's one of the reasons I went ahead and hung the L&R, to get a feel for how everything will react with some tweaks. I really need to take the screen down and do some listening with the center on the wall. But, all that is audio related and based on the AT screen

I'm really hoping Audyssey corrects the slight response difference from the center to the L&R. I'll also report back here with what I see from that check.
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post #9 of 34 Old 04-17-2019, 08:04 AM
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Anxious for an update..........

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post #10 of 34 Old 04-17-2019, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Anxious for an update..........
Well, not too much action yet. I've received the roll of spandex from SW. BTW, something I've not seen mentioned on AVS, when you order from SW and want it on a roll, you must select the second least expensive shipping option to have the option to select shipping on a roll. I called to ask about this and they did mention it's a good idea to also request a roll in the Comments section as well.

I removed my shelf for the under screen center and filled the holes. I also took down the original ST screen to install the center channel. Just need to paint the wood "port panel" at the top and touch up the wall as well.




The screen news in this? I looked at the aluminum frame for the ST frame and found a couple of options for installing the screen. The channel with the white lug has a .235" wide opening at the top with a larger opening below. It's also .235" deep.
I'm thinking I might try to stack the two layers of spandex and stretch together. If that works, I can use a common channel for both layers and put in some .210" spline that is available at Home Depot(or .235" spline from Amazon).

The other option is a secondary channel that is near the rear edge of the frame, above the plastic lug sticker in the pic. It's the channel for the mounting brackets and it would only be used for the black layer of spandex. Would there be an issue with that approach? It would result in a gap between the layers around 1/4" but allow me to stretch the white layer independently of the black layer. Ideas?

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post #11 of 34 Old 04-18-2019, 05:33 AM
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There should be no gap.....both the AT and visual aspects depend upon the Black Layer resting directly against the White layer.
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post #12 of 34 Old 04-18-2019, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Alrighty, understood. I'm certain it will make the plan of using the frame channel a little more difficult. In my head, I'm thinking of pre-clamping the spandex to the outer frame and "jamb" the spline through the two layers into the channel. I'll do some trials to see how it goes and report back. Trying to take some pictures and share some info since so many here offer insight and share knowledge, it almost feels obligatory to do so haha! Since I could not find anyone that had shown details of using bulk material to convert to AT, hopefully my little project will help someone else.

Thanks for the support MississippiMan and thegeek and everyone!
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post #13 of 34 Old 04-18-2019, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
Alrighty, understood. I'm certain it will make the plan of using the frame channel a little more difficult. In my head, I'm thinking of pre-clamping the spandex to the outer frame and "jamb" the spline through the two layers into the channel. I'll do some trials to see how it goes and report back. Trying to take some pictures and share some info since so many here offer insight and share knowledge, it almost feels obligatory to do so haha! Since I could not find anyone that had shown details of using bulk material to convert to AT, hopefully my little project will help someone else.

Thanks for the support MississippiMan and thegeek and everyone!



Quite a Few have used a Single Channel on Screen Tite attachments for Frames and found it doable....but dual-layer Spandex users have usually used two channels.. No doubt that putting both sheets of Spandex in one Channel will be a challenge, but at least the thickness of the Materials won't be the issue. Another thing working in your favor is that the Spandex does not require as much tension.



There have been plenty of Members who have installed other "solid" screen cloths on ST-Frames (...as well as others...)but that's entirely different.


Hey...I got this far and all at once the Sun broke through the Clouds and I had a epiphany.


The Rear Layer of Black does not need much stretching, and I believe you could attach it securely over the White by using Cloth Tape reinforced by 1/2" Washer Head (Truss) Screws. You seem to have plenty of space between the Spline Channel and the outside edges of the Frame, so it seems entirely plausible.
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post #14 of 34 Old 04-19-2019, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Hey...I got this far and all at once the Sun broke through the Clouds and I had a epiphany.


The Rear Layer of Black does not need much stretching, and I believe you could attach it securely over the White by using Cloth Tape reinforced by 1/2" Washer Head (Truss) Screws. You seem to have plenty of space between the Spline Channel and the outside edges of the Frame, so it seems entirely plausible.
You know, it is hollow in that area of the extrusion......hmmm it is a real possiblity! Maybe that'll be a game-time call. Hopefully the material will come off the roll this weekend.
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post #15 of 34 Old 05-10-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
You know, it is hollow in that area of the extrusion......hmmm it is a real possiblity! Maybe that'll be a game-time call. Hopefully the material will come off the roll this weekend.
Any updates?
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post #16 of 34 Old 05-10-2019, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Any updates?
Well, yes actually, but I need to get a couple of finalized pictures. With the spline diameter I went with, it actually worked better to use both layers into the channel with the spline and be patient with stretching both layers.

I'll leave a teaser pic in the meantime

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Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
Well, yes actually, but I need to get a couple of finalized pictures. With the spline diameter I went with, it actually worked better to use both layers into the channel with the spline and be patient with stretching both layers.

I'll leave a teaser pic in the meantime

Nice! Can you share what spline you went with? Looking at possibly doing a similar install into my ST 106" frame.
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post #18 of 34 Old 05-10-2019, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
I'll leave a teaser pic in the meantime


Tease indeed.............


Juicy...
.....ripe for the pluckin'...
............................................squeez able!






I'd just love me some of 'dem Grapes!






Oh....BTW, that's an excellent image, and a potentially encouraging review of a process that may foretell a sudden rush by many with ST Screens to convert to AT applications that promise a much superior image and far better AT performance than the ST-AT material provides.


The icing on the cake? Scarlett O'Hara bigger than life.
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post #19 of 34 Old 05-11-2019, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio81 View Post
Nice! Can you share what spline you went with? Looking at possibly doing a similar install into my ST 106" frame.
Of course! I went with .230 spline and it worked well for the 2 layers of spandex in a single channel. Hopefully I can sit at a PC long enough to load my pics and type out a little description.
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post #20 of 34 Old 05-16-2019, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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So we have been watching some movies and TV on the new spandex screen and have zero complaints!!

Personally, I'm not an image expert and don't have much reference for what's excellent and less excellent. My reading took me to the Silver Ticket non-AT screen for best ROI without dropping a couple thousand for just a screen. I've been happy with it but just wanted to go AT. All the reviews I've seen for spandex have been positive and I can say I don't regret changing screen material with regards to image. I was afraid that having 3000 hours on my bulb was going to be an issue with the lower gain, but I've not had any issues. My subjective experience is that this spandex retrofit has had a great impact acoustically with no real downside for image quality......Success!!! I'd have to do some side by side overlays with the old material to see what is better or worse.

For the install, I decided to try both layers into the single channel and used the .230 screen spline from Amazon. 25ft would have been just short, so two packages were needed.



First step was to remove all the white plastic studs in the ST frame by opening a couple of corners to slide them out of the channel. Took the spandex off the roll and laid the white down first over the frame facing down, then black over the white.
Along the bottom edge of the screen, I used the spandex factory edge as a baseline for "straight" and laid the two aligned layers about 1/2" past the channel for the spline.



I put the spline into the channel and, PRESTO! She 'a fit berry nice!!



After this, I used clips (of the chip and binder variety) to do a pre-tension around the perimeter following other guides I've seen. Bottom center > top center > left center > right center > bottom left corner > top right corner > top left corner > bottom right corner. I did find some adjustment beyond this necessary after standing up the frame with the material and spline installed. I was a bit cautious over how much I could stretch and tried to keep tension minimal. By doing that, the weight of the material caused some wrinkling at the edges in a couple of spots and I just had to pull the spline out and apply a little more tension to the layers of spandex in the trouble areas. This adjustment process took the most time and was the most challenging part. With some adjusting and patience, I was finally able to stand up the screen without any wrinkling.



You can see in the above image, I chickened out and decided to roll the excess material overhang rather than trimming it. That was a bit more work, but I was skeptical about my stretch being sufficient, and worried if I would regret trimming. I think this would be fine either way, I don't have any issues from it being rolled and clipped in place.

Now the goofy part of me forgot to take "completed" pictures, but it is a white screen on the same ST frame, so not different looking from the front. The front stage improvement is kind of like TV ads where the real improvement is all the other changes besides what they're selling lol. The old speakers and shelf going away have made the visual impact to tidy-ness.

However, I've taken advantage of the AT properties of the spandex and treated the wall with OC703 behind the screen and mounted the third line array speaker for the center. As expected, this configuration is soooo much better for sound than the horizontal center and floor standers. The back row has been transformed into a viable listening position, even without a riser.




Also, for my specific installation, I was able to use some 2X4 trimmed to act as a spacer to stand the screen off the wall about 2 1/2" You can see the blocks screwed into the studs above the OC. I also fashioned some spacers for the bottom mounting points as well, but attached those to the brackets on the frame.
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post #21 of 34 Old 05-20-2019, 02:50 PM
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Awesome man. Thanks for putting this together in detail.
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post #22 of 34 Old 06-01-2019, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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And one last pic showing the final results for the front of the room.

I've had a few weeks to have the screen AT and use the matching center channel. Gotta say I have no regrets doing this project!! Between the LCR matching, adding the OC703, and cleaning up the look, this result has been fantastic.

Regarding the image, I'm not super sensitive to color, but I do appreciate image sharpness. I believe this might be slightly better than the original ST material. Unfortunately, I can see the squared edges of the pixels (if that wording is correct) better. From the back row, it's barely noticeable, but the front row is very clear. I can also now see some of the grid/screen door look. I've yet to hold up the old material over the spandex to compare. I may not do it either since I'd not put the non-AT material back in anyways

Looks like shopping 4K projectors will be happening for this fall
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post #23 of 34 Old 06-01-2019, 04:47 PM
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Using a 1080p, the smoothness of the Spandex along with the increase of surface contrast will tend to highlight pixel grid lines. With 4K that will all be history.


In the past, a quick and dirty fix was to very slightly de-focus the image.
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post #24 of 34 Old 06-03-2019, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that MM. I might mess around with the focus some, but it's only noticeable for me in the front row if I lean way forward. 4K should be lots of fun when that time comes!

Also, if anyone is interested in the build thread for the speakers, I've finished putting it together in the DIY Speaker section.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...lcr-build.html
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post #25 of 34 Old 06-30-2020, 02:13 PM
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I have 120 inch fix frame silver ticket screen which I am planning on changing it to AT screen with spandex. My frame looks exactly like yours with white clips so I'm sure its the same size channel. So basically the spline just tucks/pushes the fabric into the channel and holds really well and tight? How does this compare to the screen tite method?

Theater room: Sony 45es | 120" screen | Panasonic BDT500 | Rotel RMB-1077 | Outlaw Audio 976 | Klipsch RP-280F/RP-450C/RP-160M | Funk Audio 18.0L (2), 21.0LX (2 coming soon) | MiniDSP 2x4HD | Crowson Tech MAs | Surgex XR 315 | CyberPower UPS | GIK room treatments

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post #26 of 34 Old 06-30-2020, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I have 120 inch fix frame silver ticket screen which I am planning on changing it to AT screen with spandex. My frame looks exactly like yours with white clips so I'm sure its the same size channel. So basically the spline just tucks/pushes the fabric into the channel and holds really well and tight? How does this compare to the screen tite method?
Since doing this thread, I've not had to do anything, still works like a charm!

So, yeah, the spline is just tucking the spandex into one of the frame channels as you tension the spandex layers. I believe the only difference between this and the screen tite is that you don't have to put any type of additional channel on the frame. If I understand correctly, that is for when no other channel is available, like a solid wood frame.

But personally, I'd just cut a groove into a solid wood frame that is wide enough for the spline + screen material layers.

Go for it, I dont have any regrets and I think you'd be hard pressed to tell this screen from one that costs multiples more.
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post #27 of 34 Old 07-01-2020, 07:25 AM
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You could do much worse by not following @notfastenough 's advice. His results are among the best I've seen....but my comments might be because I'm really impressed with his DIY Speaker arrays.


Too bad they were not also done in a Matte Black finish like the Center was, or hidden behind a drape of Black Spandex. But I suppose they are out there to impress...and that they certainly do!
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post #28 of 34 Old 07-01-2020, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
@ereed


You could do much worse by not following @notfastenough 's advice. His results are among the best I've seen....but my comments might be because I'm really impressed with his DIY Speaker arrays.


Too bad they were not also done in a Matte Black finish like the Center was, or hidden behind a drape of Black Spandex. But I suppose they are out there to impress...and that they certainly do!
Thanks for confirming what I should do. And I agree....his speakers look like its on steroids!

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post #29 of 34 Old 07-01-2020, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the compliments! Yeah, the speakers had a look in my head before I made them and that look wasn't going to be hidden behind fabric haha!

A little off topic, but if I ever get around to doing matrixed wides, the silver speakers will go to the wides position away from the screen and the new L & R will either go behind screen or black AT material. That plus a couple other tweaks to help get an even more cohesive front soundstage.

And on topic, when stretching the layers, I'd really advise you to use a bunch of binder clips to pre-tension the spandex. And don't get in a hurry, I'm not great at upholstery type of projects, and still got it knocked out by taking my time. Fortunately, the materials were forgiving and a reasonable amount of care is more than enough. Feel free to post here if you have any questions.
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post #30 of 34 Old 07-04-2020, 11:53 AM
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Following your advice @notfastenough to get the .230 spline and 3.5 yards of black and white milliskin spandex with some extra to spare rather than stretching it. Screen is 120 inch 16x9 frame.

Just curious @MississippiMan is there a benefit to add 2nd layer of white or 2nd layer of black for improved brightness/contrast levels or still best to do just single white and single black? My wall behind the screen will be black velvet anyway.
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TV Room: Panny 60 inch | Rotel RMB-1075 | Rotel RSP-1068 | Axiom Audio M60/VP150/QS8 |
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