Can you turn a 16:9 pulldown screen into a 21:9 screen - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 21 Old 05-29-2019, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Can you turn a 16:9 pulldown screen into a 21:9 screen

There doesn't seem to be that many cinemascope manual pull down screens available, I'm wondering if its easy to convert a 16:9 screen to 21:9 format using tape or some similar, it needs to stick when the screen is rolled up and down. I have a anamorphic lens but its time to change the fixed frame to a new tv and a manual pull down screen for movie watching.
Because of the curve there will be some lost image in the corners, here is what I imagine it will look on a cinemascope pull down screen:

Any advice of how to convert a 16:9 to 21:9?? or any other options?

Thanks
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post #2 of 21 Old 05-29-2019, 08:44 AM
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The best method is to Spray on a proper Black Mask. It needs to be flexible, so the inclusion of Polyurethane is important.


Anything remotely Solid with a definitive edge will risk transfering that edge onto the Screen material when such is rolled up...and the use of adhesive to hold such material in place is to be highly disregarded.

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post #3 of 21 Old 05-29-2019, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks could you link to some example product, so I can try to find a similar product in my country.
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post #4 of 21 Old 05-29-2019, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Challe77 View Post
thanks could you link to some example product, so I can try to find a similar product in my country.

Let me flip that around....restate where in the EU you live (Nordic country?....France?...Netherlands?) I can help source materials pretty good because I already know what to look for and can easily determine substitutes.

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post #5 of 21 Old 05-29-2019, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
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sweden 🙂
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post #6 of 21 Old 05-30-2019, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Challe77 View Post
sweden 🙂
I thought so.


I'd bet you can find some Clear Matte Water Based Polyurethane over there. A general description would be a Clear, Matte Water Based Finish for Wood.



In the US we use: https://www.ebay.com/p/Rust-Oleum-260165-Soft-Touch-Polyurethane-Quart-Matte/15022916620?iid=192561082579



A quick search turns up: https://www.loba.de/us/products/waterborne-finishes/1-component-waterborne-finishes/product/viva/

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post #7 of 21 Old 05-30-2019, 06:48 AM
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What kind of sprayer would you recommend for Rust-Oleum? Thanks.
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post #8 of 21 Old 05-30-2019, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Challe77 View Post
There doesn't seem to be that many cinemascope manual pull down screens available, I'm wondering if its easy to convert a 16:9 screen to 21:9 format using tape or some similar, it needs to stick when the screen is rolled up and down. I have a anamorphic lens but its time to change the fixed frame to a new tv and a manual pull down screen for movie watching.
Because of the curve there will be some lost image in the corners, here is what I imagine it will look on a cinemascope pull down screen:

Any advice of how to convert a 16:9 to 21:9?? or any other options?

Thanks
Elite Screens makes two electric screens in one housing containing a 16:9 and a 2.35:1 called the VMAX Dual. I have the 100" and 95" respectively which works really nice, but there are larger sizes. They're also available in acoustically transparent. They do make pull-down widescreens as well. Hope that helps.
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post #9 of 21 Old 05-30-2019, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddwz View Post
What kind of sprayer would you recommend for Rust-Oleum? Thanks.

For the Rust-Oleum Polyurethane alone? A HVLP gun with a 1.5 mm tip.......no dilution.


Somehow I don't think the above was the gist of your question. Applying Poly in and of itself has very little use as far as screen applications go.

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post #10 of 21 Old 05-30-2019, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevensTheater View Post
Elite Screens makes two electric screens in one housing containing a 16:9 and a 2.35:1 called the VMAX Dual. I have the 100" and 95" respectively which works really nice, but there are larger sizes. They're also available in acoustically transparent. They do make pull-down widescreens as well. Hope that helps.
Ddin't know that. It's cool. Link
https://elitescreens.com/front/front...ail/product/32

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For the Rust-Oleum Polyurethane alone? A HVLP gun with a 1.5 mm tip.......no dilution.
Somehow I don't think the above was the gist of your question. Applying Poly in and of itself has very little use as far as screen applications go.
Please let me rephrase. You mentioned in US we use Rust-Oleum, and you also mentioned in #2 to spray. So we need to spray Rust-Oleum? Or my question is how to apply Rust-Oleum? Hope this clears up.
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post #11 of 21 Old 05-30-2019, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddwz View Post
Please let me rephrase. You mentioned in US we use Rust-Oleum, and you also mentioned in #2 to spray. So we need to spray Rust-Oleum? Or my question is how to apply Rust-Oleum? Hope this clears up.

I was speaking of spraying a combination of a Black Paint and Polyurethane.....at a ratio of 3:1 at least. Not spraying Polyurethane alone.

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post #12 of 21 Old 05-31-2019, 06:32 AM
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I was speaking of spraying a combination of a Black Paint and Polyurethane.....at a ratio of 3:1 at least. Not spraying Polyurethane alone.
I see. Thanks. This seems beyond my capability so I'll just buy black velvet later.
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post #13 of 21 Old 06-01-2019, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddwz View Post
I see. Thanks. This seems beyond my capability so I'll just buy black velvet later.

Black Velvet is the prescribed solution for making Masking Panels or Wrapping Frames. It is not suggested or correctly used as an applied mask to a Retractable.

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post #14 of 21 Old 06-04-2019, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Challe77 View Post
There doesn't seem to be that many cinemascope manual pull down screens available, I'm wondering if its easy to convert a 16:9 screen to 21:9 format using tape or some similar, it needs to stick when the screen is rolled up and down. I have a anamorphic lens but its time to change the fixed frame to a new tv and a manual pull down screen for movie watching.
Because of the curve there will be some lost image in the corners, here is what I imagine it will look on a cinemascope pull down screen:

Any advice of how to convert a 16:9 to 21:9?? or any other options?

Thanks
Why not simply build a valence box that hides the case for the pull down screen and make it tall enough to reduce the visible height of the screen to 21:9 AR ?


For example, if you bought a 122" 16:9 pull down screen it would have a visible rectangle 106" wide and 60" tall surrounded on all four sides by black masking borders. If it was mounted at a height such that your projected 21:9 image bottom aligned with the bottom of the screen when pulled all the way down, then you would have 106" wide and 45" tall image with 15" white screen above the projection area. If the case was enclosed by a valence 15" taller than whatever the actual case size is, and that valence box was covered in black velvet, then you would have plenty of black border on the top and whatever black border the screen itself provides on bottom and sides for your curved projection edges caused by the anamorphic lens.



The valence box would not change the screen surface at all and therefor not affect the roll up and roll down action. If the box was built so the underside face only had a slot for the screen slide through and at a slight angle, you can have the valence create a tight fit to the screen surface and a clean masking edge that doesn't cast any shadow due to projection angle (assuming the projector is above the top of the image.)

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post #15 of 21 Old 06-05-2019, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamer View Post
Why not simply build a valence box that hides the case for the pull down screen and make it tall enough to reduce the visible height of the screen to 21:9 AR ?


For example, if you bought a 122" 16:9 pull down screen it would have a visible rectangle 106" wide and 60" tall surrounded on all four sides by black masking borders. If it was mounted at a height such that your projected 21:9 image bottom aligned with the bottom of the screen when pulled all the way down, then you would have 106" wide and 45" tall image with 15" white screen above the projection area. If the case was enclosed by a valence 15" taller than whatever the actual case size is, and that valence box was covered in black velvet, then you would have plenty of black border on the top and whatever black border the screen itself provides on bottom and sides for your curved projection edges caused by the anamorphic lens.



The valence box would not change the screen surface at all and therefor not affect the roll up and roll down action. If the box was built so the underside face only had a slot for the screen slide through and at a slight angle, you can have the valence create a tight fit to the screen surface and a clean masking edge that doesn't cast any shadow due to projection angle (assuming the projector is above the top of the image.)
A box won't work, at least not as total solution. You would want to drape a strip of masking (like velvet) in front of the screen much closer to the surface. The assertion about not having an issue if the projector is above the screen, is incorrect, it would have to be below, with a box. With a draped mask the projector could be above or below the top edge. The easiest would be attaching say, a 6 inch strip of fabric to a horizontal weight bar (a dowel, or flat wood strip) at the bottom and the front lip of the opening of screen case at the top.
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post #16 of 21 Old 06-05-2019, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
A box won't work, at least not as total solution. You would want to drape a strip of masking (like velvet) in front of the screen much closer to the surface. The assertion about not having an issue if the projector is above the screen, is incorrect, it would have to be below, with a box. With a draped mask the projector could be above or below the top edge. The easiest would be attaching say, a 6 inch strip of fabric to a horizontal weight bar (a dowel, or flat wood strip) at the bottom and the front lip of the opening of screen case at the top.
You're wrong. I specifically called for a box tall enough to provide all the masking required without a hanging strip of cloth. A lower face that was steeply angled so its front edge was much higher than where it meets the screen surface would be entirely out of the light path even if the projector was hung several feet above the height of the screen. A draped mask would never hug the screen surface tightly, and a 6" strip of fabric would be entirely inadequate unless you wanted to unroll the screen only partway. Even with a small 100" screen, 6" strip would not turn a 16:9 AR image area into a 21:9 as the OP requested. My suggestion would allow the screen to completely unroll, which is essential for a tensioned screen and keeps things easy for even the cheapest non-tensioned screen since there would be no guessing as to where to stop unrolling it.
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post #17 of 21 Old 06-05-2019, 06:11 PM
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Isn't the original request by @Challe77 getting at bit off track?


Challe77 stated he was looking for a 16:9 "Pull Down" screen he wanted to "permanently" covert to a 21:9 screen,,,and it seemed that Painting in the Black Masked area was going to be the most affordable way..


While he (Challe77) is considering purchasing a different screen, constructing a large Valance wrapped on Black Velvet did not seem on the agenda for consideration, and the image he posted of a Tension-ed screen isn't the one he actually has...it was for reference use only. (...it also was Electric Retractable ) It also wasn't curved.....like the DIY'er he built prior....no, the illustration was to show what the use of the A-lens will do / does to the image, and how much of the image field in the corners will be lost when he switches to a Flat surface.


Now to tell the truth....I like the Valance wrapped on Black Velvet ** idea, if it could be made to be discretely as small in dimension as possible....but it could never be as inconspicuous as a slim-cased Manual Pull Down, which itself could be painted in the Room's Wall Color to make it disappear.


**most Electric Retractable s have adjustable Drops...Manuals do not,,,they just stop where you pull'en to. Mostly. , and as Challe77 mentioned, there is a dearth of Cinemascope Manuals in 21.9, so just maybe...? We must now wait for Challe77 to come back on a weigh in on what has been / is being discussed.

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post #18 of 21 Old 06-05-2019, 06:33 PM
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Can you turn a 16:9 pulldown screen into a 21:9 screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Isn't the original request by @Challe77 getting at bit off track?


Challe77 stated he was looking for a 16:9 "Pull Down" screen he wanted to "permanently" covert to a 21:9 screen,,,and it seemed that Painting in the Black Masked area was going to be the most affordable way..


While he (Challe77) is considering purchasing a different screen, constructing a large Valance wrapped on Black Velvet did not seem on the agenda for consideration, and the image he posted of a Tension-ed screen isn't the one he actually has...it was for reference use only. (...it also was Electric Retractable ) It also wasn't curved.....like the DIY'er he built prior....no, the illustration was to show what the use of the A-lens will do / does to the image, and how much of the image field in the corners will be lost when he switches to a Flat surface.


Now to tell the truth....I like the Valance wrapped on Black Velvet ** idea, if it could be made to be discretely as small in dimension as possible....but it could never be as inconspicuous as a slim-cased Manual Pull Down, which itself could be painted in the Room's Wall Color to make it disappear.


**most Electric Retractable s have adjustable Drops...Manuals do not,,,they just stop where you pull'en to. Mostly. , and as Challe77 mentioned, there is a dearth of Cinemascope Manuals in 21.9, so just maybe...? We must now wait for Challe77 to come back on a weigh in on what has been / is being discussed.


I’ve said this in another thread somewhere, but my old DaLite manual pull down did indeed have a stop at 2.4:1, and then one down at 1.85:1. I think it was a model B?

Edit: you had to rely on the casing for the top edge, but I would think you could paint the case flat black or put velvet on it.

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post #19 of 21 Old 06-05-2019, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Isn't the original request by @Challe77 getting at bit off track?


Challe77 stated he was looking for a 16:9 "Pull Down" screen he wanted to "permanently" covert to a 21:9 screen,,,and it seemed that Painting in the Black Masked area was going to be the most affordable way..


While he (Challe77) is considering purchasing a different screen, constructing a large Valance wrapped on Black Velvet did not seem on the agenda for consideration, and the image he posted of a Tension-ed screen isn't the one he actually has...it was for reference use only. (...it also was Electric Retractable ) It also wasn't curved.....like the DIY'er he built prior....no, the illustration was to show what the use of the A-lens will do / does to the image, and how much of the image field in the corners will be lost when he switches to a Flat surface.


Now to tell the truth....I like the Valance wrapped on Black Velvet ** idea, if it could be made to be discretely as small in dimension as possible....but it could never be as inconspicuous as a slim-cased Manual Pull Down, which itself could be painted in the Room's Wall Color to make it disappear.


**most Electric Retractable s have adjustable Drops...Manuals do not,,,they just stop where you pull'en to. Mostly. , and as Challe77 mentioned, there is a dearth of Cinemascope Manuals in 21.9, so just maybe...? We must now wait for Challe77 to come back on a weigh in on what has been / is being discussed.
We still like having options around here at DIY, don't we ? His original request was for "tape or something similar" and tape is not permanent like paint would be, so I felt justified in offering a non-permanent option.


If I were building such a thing and tool-challenged, I might build it out of layers of 3/4" foam board laminated with Glidden Gripper to have more than 8' length and let the velvet act as hinges at each corner and straight pins holding the velvet to the foam board. Razor knife, straight edge, paint brush and straight pins are pretty minimal requirements.



My main concern was that it would be even less conspicuous than the case for a pull down screen alone, as you mentioned. If that was important, I'd build it more robustly so the back of the angled face could be smooth and painted wall-color then flipped up to show that side rather than the front black velvet. Let the painted face hide the whole shebang.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruggercb View Post
I’ve said this in another thread somewhere, but my old DaLite manual pull down did indeed have a stop at 2.4:1, and then one down at 1.85:1. I think it was a model B?

Edit: you had to rely on the casing for the top edge, but I would think you could paint the case flat black or put velvet on it.
I also had a Model B in my first theater, and it did have multiple stops, and they were very reliable. Most electrics can have the drop adjusted, to include tab tensioned models.
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post #21 of 21 Old 06-06-2019, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamer View Post
We still like having options around here at DIY, don't we ?

Certainly, but one cannot exclude nor overlook the context behind any request.





Quote:
His original request was for "tape or something similar" and tape is not permanent like paint would be, so I felt justified in offering a non-permanent option.

And in that case your right, but I really don't see "non-permanent" in his request, He wants a Roll-UP with built-on masking that will roll up with the screen. Something like that must be non-intrusive (ie: almost perfectly flat and hold no risk of transferring any residue...andlack any possibility of shifting position) Those requirement is what should drive any practical advised solution.

Quote:
If I were building such a thing and tool-challenged, I might build it out of layers of 3/4" foam board laminated with Glidden Gripper to have more than 8' length and let the velvet act as hinges at each corner and straight pins holding the velvet to the foam board. Razor knife, straight edge, paint brush and straight pins are pretty minimal requirements.
So while the Screen is rolled up the Masking Panels remain as a issue of storage...somewhere, and be brought out only when the Screen is extracted? Not a workable solution, for one, The "Gripper" itself is not available to the OP, and then there is another very good reason in this case.

Quote:
My main concern was that it would be even less conspicuous than the case for a pull down screen alone, as you mentioned.

I think you meant "more conspicuous" there..... Which bring us to.....



Quote:
If that was important, I'd build it more robustly so the back of the angled face could be smooth and painted wall-color then flipped up to show that side rather than the front black velvet. Let the painted face hide the whole shebang.

Well....you had me with your posted drawing. I said I liked that idea. However the primary overriding issue to be taken under consideration is that the OP lives in Sweden. That means....


Some things such as particular US products are not available, or are prohibitively expensive to import (VAT & Duties are buzz-killers in Scandinavian Countries) Local sources of similar products might be possible of course, but that has to be a consideration taken into account. Nothing could be simpler to fill that order than a Painted on Mask.


Then there is "the Look". I certain it must look very acceptable....at all times. Challe77 is picky. That means going every bit as far as your design...and more, but it's gotta be in style with the decor. I don't thing anything beyond minimalist approach would be acceptable here....however and perhaps a closely confining built-out enclosure meant to hide the Screen's casing could well be a good blending. As to if that is even something Challe77 is concerned about, we will have to wait for his input.....which seems to be lagging here.



No matter....Cosmetic appeal is obviously a important part....I know that much having helped Challe77 with his DIY DEA Curved 2.39:1 Screen. That is backed up by this one single Post (...didn't get any responses though...) where Challe77 was looking for a Flat "TV Format" Screen that would serve as a Painting when reversed and placed on another Wall. Bear in mind that TV over there is also in 16:9, and Challe77 is using a Fixed Panamorphic Lens, so he wants a 21.9 Ratio because that size scales easier than 16:9.


Please don't think me so much as being critical as being concerned that going too far afield of the original request might be a bit off-putting. But I do know that if Challe77 "wants" to build something...he's perfectly capable of doing so, so your idea might appeal to him. I just see his request as asking for the simplest approach possible, and painting on the needed mask is that by a wide margin.

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