150” Scope screen design and height advice - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 44 Old 06-07-2019, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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150” Scope screen design and 94” ceiling height advice

I am looking for a little help with a design for a 150” 2.39 scope screen using CIH. I also need validation or debate on the screen bottom height. I am going to use a Spandex AT screen I will build. I have spent the last year compiling numbers, devouring AVS threads, and making design choices. My theater seats were ordered and have arrived. I ordered the new Epson 6050 that is expected here next Tuesday. My ceiling height is just 94” and is the main design constraint. For my situation, I quickly realized ceiling height, bar height, and then the theater chairs and projector I would select would determine everything else including max screen size. It has been a learning experience!

I have two rows of Palliser Soundtrack curved seats with the center seats set at 9.5’ and 15.5’ from screen center. Outside seats sit at 10’ and 16’. There are 3 seats in the first row and four in the second row. Center two seats of second row is a loveseat. I also have a third row which is a bar that will look in from another room that has a full bar but at the same floor height of first row. Standard 42” bar height which is why I don’t want to go taller with my riser so all of my bar stools in the bar area are the same 30”. Projector will be set at 17’ from screen just behind the third row. I doubled checked to make sure I had plenty of zoom and lumens for the primary formats. I currently have the screen bottom set at 26”. A riser of 12” for the second row of seats. The room is just under 16’ wide but I will be taking 6” in on one side for acoustic treatments. The other side will have the 6” of treatments built into the wall when it is framed. The existing room will basically shift 6” to the left. This gives me plenty of options for bass traps, hidden speakers, and other sound treatments to combat the short ceiling and usual acoustic issues.

So with a 3” screen frame and screen height just under 58” that leaves me just over 4” of space left to the ceiling. Enough to squeeze in 1-2” of ceiling treatments and leave 2” to spare. I won’t have room for a full soffit treatment. I originally wanted a 160” scope screen but it was not enough height to get it all in. I have flexibility with everything but ceiling height. I also deepened my riser by a few inches after I had the seats in place. I sat in the dealer’s theater. His first row is at 9’ with a 140-145” scope screen and it seemed fine and I am 6” back from that. His rows are closer together. It is my first projector but enjoy the large screen experience.

I have complete light control and the front wall and first 4 feet of side walls and ceilings up to first pillar will have black treatments. It will then transition into the room design.

My main concern is the dealer was using the same 12” riser but the screen bottom was set at 37”. Sitting reclined in the second row he still had a good 6” of clearance. Adjustments to my own math after getting my real seats in shows I probably need 29-30” to the bottom of the screen. These seats sit higher than I estimated. But I am looking for some input on how this sounds to others based on real experience. Is 26” really too low? If so, the easy solution is to go to a smaller screen higher up on the wall or live with a smaller border and the screen closer to the ceiling. I could also go to 13” on the riser to do a little of both but doing that doesn’t leave much ceiling height. Another option with the front wall black is to eliminate the frame and do a floating screen so I can move it another 3” up the wall. One of the reasons the projector is at 17’ is so it doesn’t sit over that seat or add to the congested height of the second row, I don’t have much experience to know how close I am to having blocked views beyond what the calculator is telling so any help would be appreciated. I don’t know how much margin of safety is built into this riser calculator. What I saw at the dealer has also spooked me a bit but at least it is before I have built anything.

The height of the screen bottom is really my last concern to get past. Once that is settled then I will ask for a little help with the drawing. The seating distances above include adding some depth to the screen build for some acoustic treatments and speakers inside the frame. I decided against pushing the front wall back and building a baffle wall for now. Right now I am using golden ear sides and surrounds and BA VR fronts I will upgrade to golden ear in-walls or towers. Super chuck bass traps will flank the front corners. Once I get the projector, I am going to project on the wall to double check I am comfortable with screen size and height from the floor. Then I will build the screen. Thank you.

Last edited by rustypep; 06-22-2019 at 01:36 PM.
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post #2 of 44 Old 06-08-2019, 06:23 AM
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@rustypep ,


What a fine mess you have gotten us into here!



Yes...that low Ceiling is at the root of all your woes. It compounds the issue of the Front Row "Non Reclined" height as relates to the Screen's bottom edge....and what happens when the Rear Row seats are reclined.
Oh...there is a worst case solution to be sure, but it involves absolutely required Light masking.



Just a cursory look at the numbers makes me wince. 94" - 58" = 36" You are correct in your assessment you need more height on the Screen's bottom edge.


Here is your only viable solution that allows you to maintain your Screen size....something you both want to do if at all possible. It's a solution you have already touched upon, so at least your somewhat prepared to hear it.


  • NO Border. Do a Edge-less Wrapped Screen built on a On-Edge 1x3 Frame
  • Mount the Screen so that it is 3" from the Ceiling w/NO Ceiling Treatments above the Screen except a anti-reflective panel of Black Velvet across the Ceiling extending at least 3' minimum.
    (Acoustic Treatments directly above the Screen are essentially ineffectual)
  • For maximum Edge Masking around / below the Screen, wrap 1x3 Panels with more 2x layered Black Spandex and set in Place, as their depth will then match the Screen's Frame. Cool!
  • The aforementioned Spandex Panels will allow you to place the In-Wall Mains out further for improved spatial imaging


All the above should allow you to set the Screen's bottom edge at 33"....of which you will need every inch if you are to avoid having to put a similar amount of Rise on the Rear Row. (1" additional won't amount to squat...)


Just visualizing the angle of view from those 30" bar Stools tells me that if a Tall Person up front is not at least partially reclined, the view will be blocked by the top of a head. Not a lot...but expect it to happen.


Of course, dropping down to a minuscule 140" diagonal Scope will allow you to raise the bottom another 3" to 36". That will effectively eliminate any Rear Row / Bar Seat viewing concerns IF you maintain the edge-less " 3" down from the Ceiling" plan. A added benefit being an increase in off-the-screen Foot Lambert...up to 25fl from 22fl.


My last suggestion revolves around PJ placement. If I had designed the room around the aforementioned issues, the first thing going would be to put the 5050 at almost it's closest possible Throw (14'-9") and do a mounting solution that would have the inverted "top side" of the PJ no more than 4" down from the Ceiling.


That would require using a Chief RPA357 Mount w/Custom Plate, and a "through the Ceiling" drop Pipe whereas the HDMI & Power Cord passes through a short Nipple, and the Cheif Mount is just 1" (or less from the Ceiling.


Doing all that is of course contingent upon either having access from above (Carpeted Floor or Attic) or the ability to open the Ceiling to install the required Ceiling Plate (...preferably a Peerless ACC570...) on a Plywood Bridge.


Your Theater seems to be one where there is a lot of additional planning going into other aspects, so IMHO there should be no fudging on what would be necessary to make the Projection system's installation be anything less than ideally suited for the circumstances.



.........and it's all really quite do-able. Been there, done that....many time myself and via helping other members. Ned so drawings to guide the process? Just ask. Material sources? Ditto.



At least one thing is certain...you can count of the help and advice you need. Your biggest hurdle will be wading through the decision making process in a timely manner, and dispelling any preconceived assumptions....the latter of which I'm sure you have.

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post #3 of 44 Old 06-08-2019, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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@MississippiMan ,

I was hoping you would step in

Yeah, you are telling me what I need to hear. I need to be at 33” frameless or go to a 140” or so screen. Was hoping to stay closer to 118 for 16:9, which is why I wanted the 150” scope. I played with adding a inch to riser height and to seating distances and like you said it doesn’t make enough difference. I could push the front wall back a few inches or more if I wanted. Most of the basement walls are 24” on center framing. I have very little framing I have to do as the room is an existing finished space. I will post some pictures. I have another 1000 or so feet of storage and shop space behind the screen wall. But I need that too

I lived and worked in Mississippi for six and half years. Met and married my wife there. She is from Clinton and I lived and worked in Ridgeland and later Brandon. My wife is from Clinton. All her family is still in the Jackson area.

Ok, back to the task at hand. I ordered the Epson 6050ub which comes with the chief mount but it may not be the same one you referenced. When I said ceiling treatments I was mostly talking about for light control for the first four feet with a “cloud” over the seating area for acoustics but point taken. I am willing to consider repositioning the projector and getting it closer to the ceiling. Cutting into the ceiling isn’t an issue. Just worried about ceiling clearance since it will be over the isle and a 12” riser. So I would have to make a story pole tonight and see what it looks like. I could easily move up six inches so it barely over the second row seat right at that viewing distance for the second row. The ceiling will be covered up anyway. I have 24” on center gluelam trusses above me. I will double check to make sure it is clear of HVAC ducting. I have access to the joist area from an unfinished part of the basement. It is about a 45” run to the equipment rack with one right hand turn. So I bought a 60” fiber optic hdmi cable so I had enough. I have to cut into the joists at the walls and the foundation tops to fix some insulation issues anyway. There is a cantilevered fireplace on the one side outside and they obviously did a poor job of insulating as cold air pours into that area and first floor during the winter. It will be fixed upstairs and under the joists during this build. I wanted to install dricore to help with the temperature issues but it is another inch I can’t afford to give up.

I am open to the frameless screen basically using the wall as the frame. I was hoping to add automasking similar to moggie on a flat screen. I guess worst cast I can set the screen back slightly and build the mechanism into the framing to the right and left of screen. Then cover it up with black spandex like you mentioned. I’ll some pictures in a next post which should help visualize the situation. Thanks for the help and a lot of your posts have been helpful as is this specific help for me

Last edited by rustypep; 06-08-2019 at 04:34 PM.
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post #4 of 44 Old 06-08-2019, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok I have attached some pictures. The blue tape on the floor represents the framing I need to do for the bar/half wall at the rear and the wall on the left. For that left wall I am going to build a 2x4 wall on the outside into that pillar and on the inside it will be a recessed space to build in acoustic treatments and speakers. I haven’t decided if I will leave the doorway open or add a pocket door yet. The rear bar opening will be slightly wider than the rear row of seats. The 2x4’s on the floor give a rough idea of where the front edge of the theater bar top will be. You can see tape on the wall showing bar top height. Enough for 4-5 stools. Behind the theater is a small pub area and then a bar in the back corner. In order to get all the materials down the stairs, I have to build the bar last.

I am ditching the poster frames in favor of better acoustics. Originally wanted lighted poster boxes. I will move them out of the theater and am going to play with removing one of the center pillars tonight. That will allow me to keep the speakers behind the acoustic fabric and go with fewer and shallower columns.
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Last edited by rustypep; 06-08-2019 at 05:02 PM.
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post #5 of 44 Old 06-08-2019, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Forgot to mention the screen taped out on the wall was for 160” and I will be inside that. The two inner tape marks are for 125” and 110” scope screen widths. TV is only 55”. The tape line bottom is now at 26”. The tape marks between poster boards are marked for 12” pillars. I still need to adjust the sides. I am more of a visual and paper person since I haven’t learned cad yet.
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post #6 of 44 Old 06-08-2019, 04:21 PM
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Just got back in from work...will reply in depth later, by tomorrow for sure.

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post #7 of 44 Old 06-08-2019, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Just got back in from work...will reply in depth later, by tomorrow for sure.
No problem and no rush. I am not worried about head tops blocking the bar view if I have a packed house. I can always ask a tall person to sit in an outside seat or the back. It will mostly be our family of four and grandparents or a few neighborhood kids. No one super tall. So I think that is a compromise I can live with rather than account for a scenario that won’t happen often. I like the 150” screen as it gives me a 118” 16:9.

So the idea of frameless flanked by black spandex panels is growing on me. I could set the screen flush or recess it slightly for an automated masking system if I wanted. I can also angle the side panels to the sides walls for more volume for the bass traps. I just need to consider the screen stage and how to hide the subs. I may just build a bump out along the bottom into the other room so they can sit behind the panels.
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post #8 of 44 Old 06-09-2019, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rustypep View Post
No problem and no rush. I am not worried about head tops blocking the bar view if I have a packed house. I can always ask a tall person to sit in an outside seat or the back. It will mostly be our family of four and grandparents or a few neighborhood kids. No one super tall. So I think that is a compromise I can live with rather than account for a scenario that won’t happen often. I like the 150” screen as it gives me a 118” 16:9.

That's what they should get for growing too much. I myself have always looked at building the base of any rear Bars up onto the same level* of a second Row Riser. I also build the Bar 44" and spec out Stools that have a 34" high seat. In any design, everything has to gel or all you get is mush toward the end, with few alternatives left.
*...of course that means the Pad area behind the bar must extent out at least 36" and have a stop to prevent Stools (...and people ) from toppling over...)


Quote:
So the idea of frameless flanked by black spandex panels is growing on me. I could set the screen flush or recess it slightly for an automated masking system if I wanted. I can also angle the side panels to the sides walls for more volume for the bass traps. I just need to consider the screen stage and how to hide the subs. I may just build a bump out along the bottom into the other room so they can sit behind the panels.

Take the time to do a read of this Thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-diy-screen-section/2993818-screen-help.html


The design shows a relatively simple and less massive partition-like screen wall that is easily tied into an existing room's Ceiling / Floor / Side Walls



You can adapt it to include a Short Stage...or forward abutment, and easily have all your main forward speaker array (R-L-C + sub) behind some simply constructed panels. Looking at the finished product, you can make note that the Screen Frame hangs on a rear Frame of 2x4s, and the side / bottom / top Black spandex wrapped panels sit flush against the Screen frame on all sides and are the same depth as well.


There would then be several easily done Vertical masking solutions, from sliding panels to hanging panels...or even simple Hand Drawn Black Velvet Curtains. Also, if the Screen will be so close to the Ceiling, the length of the Masking Panels would be limited to 63", making them all the more easier to manage.


Lastly,if you feel you need acoustic dampening behind the Screen, that will be as easy as hanging the selected material directly on the Wall with no cosmetic coverings.

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post #9 of 44 Old 06-10-2019, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, spent part of the day yesterday mapping things out to more detail. Finalized the new room center, rear wall position, retapped the screen on front wall, laid out pillars, etc. So the new room is 6” smaller. It moves in 5” on right and 1” on the left. 5” gives me a 2x4 frame with a 2x2” poplar frame laid over that to hold the wall fabric panels. Lots of space behind for various types of acoustic treatments and speaker positions. I am ditching the chair rail between pillars and going with full vertical panels between the columns to help make the room seem taller. Right now I have 14” columns. Front row side surround speakers will be in the columns and the 2nd row side surrounds will be behind the wall panels.

I will space crown 2” down from the ceiling on side and rear walls so I have a raceway for wiring and can slip in ceiling treatments. I am taking 2” ceiling treatments 1-2’ in from walls around perimeter to form a soffit and then center of ceiling can have up to a 1” treatment. Gives the illusion of a soffit while breaking up the ceiling.

The new screen actually falls about 4 inches in on each side from opposing studs. So I can bump the wall out if I wanted pretty easily. I will go with blackout up to the first pillar and outside edge of fake soffit. So that’s 4’4” of blackout into the room on walls and ceiling.

As far as a riser for the third row, it won’t work. The bar ends a few inches before an outside wall corner that leads into a 12x12 bump out space. I am building pillars but that would only give me a riser depth of 18” inches unless I block the entrance to that area. So that won’t work but I think it will be ok. Some of the time it will be just me sitting at the bar anyway while the kids watch movies/play games and I work on the laptop. I am not going fret about optimizing the view from there based on the first row.

So right now my seat distances are based on a screen 4” in front of the front wall. So I can give up an inch or two more if I need to.

I also confirmed I can move the projector up a foot to 16’ and maybe another 3” beyond that if I deepen the screen frame. At 16’, that gives me 39 FL and 24 FL. 15’9” gives me a little more.

I reviewed that thread link and think I have seen it before. That is definitely along the lines of what I am thinking so thanks for sharing. Bottom line, I am going frameless with 150” screen. I can handle it. Here is a picture of a dining room that I did the casework on at the last house. I ripped and redid 100% of the casework. The doorway was all drywall before that. Used and own a Kreg jig to do the recessed panels in the doorway. The only difference is I will be using cherry trim this time around.

It was a lot of math for a Sunday but I feel much better about the design and layout. I am going to recess the screen behind the framing for the side panels. Mainly so it is ready when I retrofit the masking system. I can put a basic angle profile on the inside edge of the outer frames next to the screen. Will probably use poplar lumber in a few places to make sure the frames stay straight.

A few questions:

1) How much and type screen material do I need to do the screen?

2) What kind of AT blackout material will I use on the panels flanking the screen?

3) What type and make of black velvet material is a good match to the above?

4) Is the Chief projector mount that comes with the 6050 the one you mentioned above?

5). Is it ok to come into the screen side with panels that are angled from the side wall? Or am I better off coming in at an angle and straitening the wall out before I get to the screen?

I am sure I will have more questions but appreciate all your help and guidance thus far. What do you think of above? Turning into more of a build thread now

Rusty

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post #10 of 44 Old 06-10-2019, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Forgot dining room project pictures of last house. Can’t see it but it had a four piece dental crown modeling. Did all my measurements using a laser tape measure. Best invention next to laser level.
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post #11 of 44 Old 06-10-2019, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustypep View Post
Ok, spent part of the day yesterday mapping things out to more detail. Finalized the new room center, rear wall position, retapped the screen on front wall, laid out pillars, etc. So the new room is 6” smaller. It moves in 5” on right and 1” on the left. 5” gives me a 2x4 frame with a 2x2” poplar frame laid over that to hold the wall fabric panels. Lots of space behind for various types of acoustic treatments and speaker positions. I am ditching the chair rail between pillars and going with full vertical panels between the columns to help make the room seem taller. Right now I have 14” columns. Front row side surround speakers will be in the columns and the 2nd row side surrounds will be behind the wall panels.

I will space crown 2” down from the ceiling on side and rear walls so I have a raceway for wiring and can slip in ceiling treatments. I am taking 2” ceiling treatments 1-2’ in from walls around perimeter to form a soffit and then center of ceiling can have up to a 1” treatment. Gives the illusion of a soffit while breaking up the ceiling.

The new screen actually falls about 4 inches in on each side from opposing studs. So I can bump the wall out if I wanted pretty easily. I will go with blackout up to the first pillar and outside edge of fake soffit. So that’s 4’4” of blackout into the room on walls and ceiling.

As far as a riser for the third row, it won’t work. The bar ends a few inches before an outside wall corner that leads into a 12x12 bump out space. I am building pillars but that would only give me a riser depth of 18” inches unless I block the entrance to that area. So that won’t work but I think it will be ok. Some of the time it will be just me sitting at the bar anyway while the kids watch movies/play games and I work on the laptop. I am not going fret about optimizing the view from there based on the first row.

That's a'nice. Makes a lot of frettin'go away.




Quote:
So right now my seat distances are based on a screen 4” in front of the front wall. So I can give up an inch or two more if I need to.

I also confirmed I can move the projector up a foot to 16’ and maybe another 3” beyond that if I deepen the screen frame. At 16’, that gives me 39 FL and 24 FL. 15’9” gives me a little more.
As far as foot lambert levels...less is more as relates to distance (Throw) and Screen size.


Quote:
I reviewed that thread link and think I have seen it before. That is definitely along the lines of what I am thinking so thanks for sharing. Bottom line, I am going frameless with 150” screen. I can handle it. Here is a picture of a dining room that I did the casework on at the last house. I ripped and redid 100% of the casework. The doorway was all drywall before that. Used and own a Kreg jig to do the recessed panels in the doorway. The only difference is I will be using cherry trim this time around.
That too is some very good news. I don't / won't have to wonder nearly as much about upcoming posts.


Quote:
It was a lot of math for a Sunday but I feel much better about the design and layout. I am going to recess the screen behind the framing for the side panels. Mainly so it is ready when I retrofit the masking system. I can put a basic angle profile on the inside edge of the outer frames next to the screen. Will probably use poplar lumber in a few places to make sure the frames stay straight.
Skin that Cat anyway that seems to fit your thinking.


Quote:
A few questions:

1) How much and type screen material do I need to do the screen?
For 150" diagonal @ 2.39:1 you'll need 4 yds White Milliskin & 4 yds Black Milliskin


Quote:
2) What kind of AT blackout material will I use on the panels flanking the screen?
Well....the Black Spandex in a single or dual layer configuration will probably be the best as far as performance as relates to cost and ease of use. Others use various materials, but YRMV with them


Quote:
3) What type and make of black velvet material is a good match to the above?
Always...and only: https://syfabrics.com/collections/plush-triple-velvet/products/plush-triple-velvet1


Quote:
4) Is the Chief projector mount that comes with the 6050 the one you mentioned above?
I'm fairly certain that the Chief Mount supplied is the CHIRPMA357 Model Specific ELITE LOCKABLE........and if so.....your good.


Quote:
5). Is it ok to come into the screen side with panels that are angled from the side wall? Or am I better off coming in at an angle and straitening the wall out before I get to the screen?
Yeah....I've done several Screens with the top and side walls angled in to the edge. I personally love the look, and when I have had such be shown at various Home Show installations, the "Oooo-Ahaaa" factor of that design made it clearly a Attendee favorite. Also, if the slanted in edges are in either Black Spandex or Black Velvet, the degree of edge masking ability is further enhanced by that angle.


Quote:
I am sure I will have more questions but appreciate all your help and guidance thus far. What do you think of above? Turning into more of a build thread now

Rusty
Yes...it certainly is. And that's just fine! Many are the projects we handle on this DIY Screen Forum and they can expand well beyond Screen Making itself. I dabble a bit on the Dedicated Theater Design & Construction Forum, helping where and when I can, but over there exists an abundance of opinions and advice that comes primarily from other Owners, with only a few of us Design Installers spending the real effort to actually explain build procedures. All the other input amounts to being "too many cooks" offering their favorite takes on matters....which is understandable and amounts to being what a Forum is/should be about. The cryin' shame part is that too much input is almost always confusing...even off putting to the Noob, requiring a LOT of comparative reading and vetting.


We don't experience that degree of interaction on this Forum, with more "testimonials" than anything else. Beyond that, it's all a "Get'ter Dun!" mentality....as it's not difficult to help slide someone into a ideally suited Screen/PJ match-up.


Mostly....usually....hopefully.

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post #12 of 44 Old 06-10-2019, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Angled it is. Main positive is I have extra room to hide two stepper motors to directly drive two balls screws to move the two masking panels. Top and bottom tracks will hold the masking panels down on some type of carriage mounted to the framing. Control by Arduino or equivalent. That will give me precise position control of the two panels separately without a lot of contraptions. Easy to replace parts as they wear out.

Also saves a lot of time from having to build a frame and route groves into it, etc. And I don’t have to build that part now. I can retrofit that later. Just make sure I account for it in the framing. Thanks for the help. I’ll post some pictures tonight. Picked up a pile of trim samples on Saturday so making final choices tonight. Putting some thought into pocket door. Thanks again.

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So for a borderless 150” frame in 2.39, I am showing outer dimensions of 57” 7/8” H and 138” 3/8” wide. Do you have any suggestions on best way to frame this one up? You always seem to have a plan around

I will have 3 in-wall Golden Ear SPS speakers so just need to figure out where best to put the supports. My kids have been down there more and expensive tall towers and kids are not compatible. So that will have to wait for a later time.

So I have read that black velvet is not AT. So does it also block absorption such as for bass traps. etc.? As you mentioned, lots of opinions in some of the threads makes it difficult to get a straight answer. I would have to assume so as most fabrics do absorb but figured I would get the dumb question out of the way. Just asking to see if it makes sense to use black velvet rather than black spandex for the panels flanking the screen.
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Originally Posted by rustypep View Post
So for a borderless 150” frame in 2.39, I am showing outer dimensions of 57” 7/8” H and 138” 3/8” wide. Do you have any suggestions on best way to frame this one up? You always seem to have a plan around

It's nice to feel needed.


Quote:
I will have 3 in-wall Golden Ear SPS speakers so just need to figure out where best to put the supports. My kids have been down there more and expensive tall towers and kids are not compatible. So that will have to wait for a later time.
In the diagram above, each end gives you 26" interior dimension to work with, so it would be really unusual if a 16" O.C. stud opening didn't fall between that space limitation. Ditto the Center Channel.


Quote:
So I have read that black velvet is not AT. So does it also block absorption such as for bass traps. etc.? As you mentioned, lots of opinions in some of the threads makes it difficult to get a straight answer. I would have to assume so as most fabrics do absorb but figured I would get the dumb question out of the way. Just asking to see if it makes sense to use black velvet rather than black spandex for the panels flanking the screen.
Black Velvet is not truly considered "AT"....certainly not along the same lines as Spandex which even when used as a double layer is a better AT material than virtually all other specifically Mfg AT Cloths save only a couple. It is however porous enough in a single layer to be absorbent enough to allow a standing Bass wave to soak into a covered Frame. However it;s coming only in 44" to 46" widths and not having much of any stretch capability is perhaps more of it's most limiting factor as far as constructing larger areas. Velvet is usually used for Masking or Curtains, and seldom is a panel needed that would be wider than 44".


On the flip, a Dual Layer of Black Spandex is pretty attractive, and certainly both opaque AND acoustically transparent enough to serve both purposes....making both Masking and Acoustic Trap Panels.


As a compromise that compromises nothing visual or aural, I can see the adjoining inwardly sloping panels as being Black Velvet, and all the surrounding Panels in Black Spandex.. However when looking at you photos of the Front Wall, it doesn't seem that the 44" width limitation of the Velvet should be much of a concern, so.....a decision based upon cosmetics becomes involved....and because Spandex is best AT-wise and the Speakers (Right / Left / Sub) all demand the best possible AT qualities, it would seem Spandex would be the "Go To" choice at hand. After all, eventually you might decide to use Towers outside the Screen, so the Velvet would not be ideally suited in that instance.
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Ouch....in the rush to get that diagram posted I did not factor in the 2-3/4" width of the interior 1x3s


I will revise....sheepishly.




..........there....done and done.
It never happened....I was never here.

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No problem and thanks. I’ll take that to mean my
measurements are correct

Do you think I should add an inch to the length and width so the screen overlaps the side panels a half inch on all sides behind since it will be tucked in behind rather than flush to the sides? Or maybe round up to next inch or half inch?

Thanks again. Going to the order the spandex tonight so should have the frame done by the time it shows up. I’ll think about the velvet versus spandex approach tonight before I finalize my order. I am going to use cord in a grove like a window screen rather than staples to secure my materials so I can always replace or re-stretch as necessary and quickly. Just need to get the right bit for my router to cut the groves. Thanks again for all the help.
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Originally Posted by rustypep View Post
No problem and thanks. I’ll take that to mean my
measurements are correct

Do you think I should add an inch to the length and width so the screen overlaps the side panels a half inch on all sides behind since it will be tucked in behind rather than flush to the sides? Or maybe round up to next inch or half inch?

When creating any Format, less is more. Over spill is easier to mask than trying to fill screen area that exceeds the Formatted image. That mantra has guided Screen Mfg for a looooooong time In making the Panels, if possible you want to plot a Mitered Angle that is at least close enough that the Wrapped material will fill in any slight gap. Either that...or the front edges of the Screen should protrude out from the forward edges of each side Panel by 1/2" - 1". Such a "drop" also helps lessen the visual impact of any over spill. The latter isn't conducive to building something precise....but it does help hide minor measurement issues.



These days, Formatting is more precise...even with the variable Formats that exist. A cardinal rule to observe....if your screen / Frame measurements are going to vary, better that it be the Screen Width than the Height, especially in the case of 2.39:1 In the ultra wide Formats, there exists at least a 1 variance. A 150"er can be 138" x 58"or 139" x 58". But just a 1" increase in height amounts to a 2" increase in Width



Again, this means being on the low side in width is best. Your measurements work in opposition, one increasing Width while the other reduces Height...and the latter having the biggest difference and reacting the most.. I used your provided measurements and produced the diagram without doing my math to the 'nth' level. So my Bad?


So here it is......,


Getting a squared in, correctly formatted image area has become easier by a jump with both wider Zooms and Lens Shift repositioning of the Image. All the installer needs to do is get the PJ Level at all corners and the Len's face squared to the Wall. After that it's all about content...which itself varies across Provider's Platforms. Usually...the variables amount to the Image being smaller...not larger, so having the Screen have a wee bit of bleedover on the sides iis / has been a Masking thingee.


But that hasn't held back the desire to have Edge-less Screens....because as long as Constant Image Height is observed, the differences weigh in as being less of a concern if the screen is slightly "less than" Width wise.



Quote:
Thanks again. Going to the order the spandex tonight so should have the frame done by the time it shows up. I’ll think about the velvet versus spandex approach tonight before I finalize my order. I am going to use cord in a grove like a window screen rather than staples to secure my materials so I can always replace or re-stretch as necessary and quickly. Just need to get the right bit for my router to cut the groves. Thanks again for all the help.
Well I hope this gets to you "before"........1 hour can be a little....or too late.

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post #18 of 44 Old 06-12-2019, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn’t order anything yet as I was working late outside last night. I do have to file for a permit and submit drawings for most of the basement due to the renovation work I am doing. What program would you recommend? What do you use to create your drawings. I have a brand new computer that was purpose build to be an HTPC and work for CAD when I get around to learning. But just want a simple program to draw up a plan that can maybe produce a wall section.
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Ok @MississippiMan , having difficulty finding the thread with the detail for the right spandex. What products do I need from spandex world for black and white spandex for my screen? They tracked down my projector and it will be here tomorrow. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by rustypep View Post
Ok @MississippiMan , having difficulty finding the thread with the detail for the right spandex. What products do I need from spandex world for black and white spandex for my screen? They tracked down my projector and it will be here tomorrow. Thank you.





https://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/795

https://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/796



Call in your order and ask for the Spandex to come on a "Roll".

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post #21 of 44 Old 06-14-2019, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. Put my order through this morning.
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Ok @MississippiMan , can you give me a picture, drawing, or describe this wood bridge projector mount install you discussed? Do you include the 120AC outlet on the bridge or on the ceiling outside the bridge? How deep do you recommend I mount the bridge above the ceiling?

The projector arrived..yeah! Been waiting a year for this bad boy to get released and happy to have it in hand
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post #23 of 44 Old 06-15-2019, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rustypep View Post
Ok @MississippiMan , can you give me a picture, drawing, or describe this wood bridge projector mount install you discussed? Do you include the 120AC outlet on the bridge or on the ceiling outside the bridge? How deep do you recommend I mount the bridge above the ceiling?

The projector arrived..yeah! Been waiting a year for this bad boy to get released and happy to have it in hand

OK.....it's Tear-Out Time!!


Actually not so bad.


24" O.C. Laminated Trusses....are you describing a Noiseless "I Beam" type? In any case, the size of the Hole that must be made has to allow for access to each on each side of the Joists so you can place the 24" long 2 x 4s needed supports for the Bridge assembly. Probably a 12" long by 6" section of Drywall...the 12" being centered between Joists.


The diagram below illustrates just one of several methods. Depending upon what feedback you give, variances abound. In the case shown, the Bridge lays flat on top the existing Drywall...perhaps the most simplest method.



Be advised that the 2x4 Bridge (Glued and Screwed) laying across the Top of the Drywall w/12" extensions will have a holding power far FAR in excess of the weight of the Projector.


Also, although it is not mentioned on the diagram, After Installation access to the 110 AC Box is as simple as removing the Projector / Projector Mount and & 2" Nipple, and the ACC570 Plate


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post #24 of 44 Old 06-16-2019, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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@MississippiMan , that is exactly the type of joists I have and the distance apart. Unfortunately, it looks like I will have to use the stud in front of the projector for the front anchor point because it is right in the middle of where I would want to cut a hole. So I will push it as close to the stud as possible and mount the AC outlet on the other side., So I will need to figure out a way to use the bottom cap on the joists to hold up the bridge on one side.
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@MississippiMan ,

Where do you order the 2” nipple?

I looked around but not having luck. I did get the Peerless mount already. Looks like I am going to attach the mount to the stud on one side so this will be easier. Have the electrician scheduled for later this week. Looks like I am going to be around 5’10”-5’11” from the screen. It will overhang the seat back in the second row.
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@MississippiMan ,

Where do you order the 2” nipple? I looked around but not having luck.

Least expensive source on the Web. Less than $3.75 If you want, I can order it for you and there will be No Shipping charged.



Quote:

I did get the Peerless mount already. Looks like I am going to attach the mount to the stud on one side so this will be easier.

If your sayin' your considerin' abstainin' from using the ACC570 Ceiling Plate, I'd reconsider. Those Adjustment Knob are very difficult to reach (...you need a 9" long Phillips...) when you have only 4" space.
I might not be understanding your actual intent, so clarify and put my fears to rest......



Quote:
Have the electrician scheduled for later this week. Looks like I am going to be around 5’10”-5’11” from the screen. It will overhang the seat back in the second row.

Now I just KNOW that those numbers are transposed. 5 "feet " - "10" inches distance from the projector to the screen? Or...are you actually sayin' 5"-10" from Floor to the underneath of the Projector ?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Least expensive source on the Web. Less than $3.75 If you want, I can order it for you and there will be No Shipping charged.






If your sayin' your considerin' abstainin' from using the ACC570 Ceiling Plate, I'd reconsider. Those Adjustment Knob are very difficult to reach (...you need a 9" long Phillips...) when you have only 4" space.
I might not be understanding your actual intent, so clarify and put my fears to rest......






Now I just KNOW that those numbers are transposed. 5 "feet " - "10" inches distance from the projector to the screen? Or...are you actually sayin' 5"-10" from Floor to the underneath of the Projector ?
@MississippiMan ,

No I am using the Peerless mount so no worries. Haha...good catch. I left a 1 out of my measurement. 15’10 - 15’11” to screen. It will leave me with a little zoom adjustment on the scope screen.

@MississippiMan , dumb question but I assume the distance measurement is from the center of the projector lens to the center of the screen...correct? Just thought I would clarify before I started cutting.

Thanks for the offer but I can order it. That is the last piece I need. I am having a power bridge wired back to the stack along with two 20amp circuits. I have another circuit I can tap into nearby if I need it down the road.

Now if it would quite raining I could paint the screen frame before assembly. 9 days of rain in the 10 day forecast and we just had several in a row.
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@MississippiMan ,

No I am using the Peerless mount so no worries. Haha...good catch. I left a 1 out of my measurement. 15’10 - 15’11” to screen. It will leave me with a little zoom adjustment on the scope screen.

Excellent!


Quote:
@MississippiMan , dumb question but I assume the distance measurement is from the center of the projector lens to the center of the screen...correct? Just thought I would clarify before I started cutting.

It is supposed to be from the Center Face surface of the Lens. Of course with any degree of extra distance built in (2" 3") it becomes less precise. And again, locating the Len's Center as close as possible to the Center of the Screen means almost no horizontal adjustment (lens shift) is needed. That works to the advantage of whatever vertical lens shift might be required.

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post #29 of 44 Old 06-22-2019, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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@MississippiMan ,

Making progress on screen and mount. Had a powerbridge and fiber optic HDMI capable wired to the projector and today I am finalizing the blocking so I can mount it up. Had a 15 and 20 amp circuit wired to my rack. I have room for another 20amp if I need it later. Ran into an obstacle in the projector mount hole. I was able to make a hole about six inches round and do all the work through that hole so I didn’t have to open up more of the ceiling. I used some construction adhesive the keep the blocks in place and I will use a few screws to tied them together as well. Hope to have this up tonight and knock out the screen tomorrow. 2 inch nipple showed up as well so painting that on the side. Maybe watch a movie tomorrow night

Thanks again for all the help.
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post #30 of 44 Old 06-22-2019, 04:57 PM
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@MississippiMan ,
. 2 inch nipple showed up as well so painting that on the side. Maybe watch a movie tomorrow night

Thanks again for all the help.

GHAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!



Don't paint the Threads on that Nipple or you won't get the Threads to go into the Ceiling Plate or the Mount very far if any at all. They both can usually thread 90% into the Parts (especially with a little oil applied) so that there is at most a 1/4" to 3/8" gap. Sometimes there is none! No matter what else you want to retain the Yaw "twist-ability" and that is not gonna happen with anything coating those threads.


Hope I caught it in time!

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