Black Flame DIY screen - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 08-25-2019, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Black Flame DIY screen

I recently bought an Epson 5050ub, and decided on a painted screen. After doing my research, it was clear @MississippiMan was the guy to deal with. He asked me about my setup, and he decided I should go with the Black Flame mixture, and it was best to paint the entire wall with the Black Flame, to avoid having black bars.

I primed the walls with 2 coats the other day, and sprayed the Black Flame today. I am an auto painter, so I used an Astro HVLP gun, with a 1.3mm tip. Here are some pics of the coats and final product as I was going along:

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post #2 of 30 Old 08-26-2019, 05:25 AM
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Nice Fan.


Same one I use.


That last macro shot shows a surface done to perfection. Very much looking forward to seeing the images to come.

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post #3 of 30 Old 08-26-2019, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Nice Fan.


Same one I use.


That last macro shot shows a surface done to perfection. Very much looking forward to seeing the images to come.
Thanks MississippiMan ! I couldn't have got such a great finish without all your tips !

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post #4 of 30 Old 08-26-2019, 07:58 AM
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At that time the diy screen paint was Black Flame - a concoction which is now called Silver Fire and is in it's third rendition I believe
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post #5 of 30 Old 08-26-2019, 08:49 AM
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Black Flame is the commercially available version of Silver Fire, which is the open-source formula for do-it-yourselfers.


The difference between the commercial and the open-source formulas is in the reflective components themselves, which are similar but in the commercial version are of a higher quality, and even more so especially the colorants... which are very precisely mixed to achieve a truly dark and neutral gray additive.


Which of course is not to say that over the last 14 years that a great deal of time and effort hasen't gone into making sure that the best possible but retail available components have been selected to assure equally successful results. it is just such an effort that has led to the different versions of silver fire, which really only reflect searching out components to replace those which have been discontinued by various manufacturers.



So much so that today, after all of the revisions and changes, a do-it-yourselfer can dependably Assemble all of the components themself , and paint a screen which easily can compete with an even best it's manufactured counterparts.

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post #6 of 30 Old 08-27-2019, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some shots on the new screen. The picture is amazing.

Last edited by biglen; 08-30-2019 at 10:19 PM.
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post #7 of 30 Old 08-29-2019, 06:09 PM
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Where did you buy the pre-mixed paint? Is it possible to do with a roller? I haven't done much painting. Thanks

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post #8 of 30 Old 08-29-2019, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reechings View Post
Where did you buy the pre-mixed paint? Is it possible to do with a roller? I haven't done much painting. Thanks

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I got it from MississippiMan. A roller is not recommended, because a roller doesn't give you even distribution the way a spray gun does.

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post #9 of 30 Old 08-29-2019, 07:14 PM
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I got it from MississippiMan. A roller is not recommended, because a roller doesn't give you even distribution the way a spray gun does.

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How much did you need and how much did it cost? I'm in Canada so I'm guessing won't be cheap to get it here either.

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post #10 of 30 Old 08-29-2019, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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How much did you need and how much did it cost? I'm in Canada so I'm guessing won't be cheap to get it here either.

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Message MississippiMan for a quote. I used a half a gallon on a wall that was 8'x12'. That was spraying with an HVLP auto paint gun. If you use an electric sprayer, it might use more paint than my gun.

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post #11 of 30 Old 08-29-2019, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
Message MississippiMan for a quote. I used a half a gallon on a wall that was 8'x12'. That was spraying with an HVLP auto paint gun. If you use an electric sprayer, it might use more paint than my gun.

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Yeah my wall will be around 7'4" x 14'2". Probably buy one of those guns I guess if it's that much better than a roller. So does the 5050 have a setting then that would remove the letterbox bars when watching content that's not 16x9 and I could just max out the image to the wall?

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post #12 of 30 Old 08-29-2019, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reechings View Post
Yeah my wall will be around 7'4" x 14'2". Probably buy one of those guns I guess if it's that much better than a roller. So does the 5050 have a setting then that would remove the letterbox bars when watching content that's not 16x9 and I could just max out the image to the wall?

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When you paint the entire wall, the black bars just fade away into the screen. If you look really hard, you can faintly see them. I don't even notice them. MississippiMan can recommend a gun, and the size tip you need.

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post #13 of 30 Old 08-29-2019, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
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When you paint the entire wall, the black bars just fade away into the screen. If you look really hard, you can faintly see them. I don't even notice them. MississippiMan can recommend a gun, and the size tip you need.

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Ok cool so the projector has different aspect modes too right? Either way I love the idea of being able to zoom a widescreen format movie to fill out the wall and if I have black on the other walls then the black bars won't matter.

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post #14 of 30 Old 08-29-2019, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reechings View Post
Ok cool so the projector has different aspect modes too right? Either way I love the idea of being able to zoom a widescreen format movie to fill out the wall and if I have black on the other walls then the black bars won't matter.

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You set the aspects with the Lens button, then save them in the memory. So when you watch 16:9 content, you press the memory button, and the screen adjusts to the 16:9. Same with Cinemascope. Set the aspect, save it to memory.

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post #15 of 30 Old 08-29-2019, 09:50 PM
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You set the aspects with the Lens button, then save them in the memory. So when you watch 16:9 content, you press the memory button, and the screen adjusts to the 16:9. Same with Cinemascope. Set the aspect, save it to memory.

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The part I get confused about is that you set the aspect but then you still have black bars?

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post #16 of 30 Old 08-29-2019, 11:03 PM
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The part I get confused about is that you set the aspect but then you still have black bars?

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the projector has a fixed aspect ratio of 16:9, there's nothing you can do about that, it will always project a 16:9 AR out of the lens. but you can zoom it in/out to adjust the size of that 16:9 image to make it appear as though it's displaying a different AR. if your projector has suitably dark blacks, you won't notice the black bars.

as a more advanced method, some projectors have modes for use with anamorphic lenses. They still project a 16:9 image out of the projector, but the anamorphic lens stretches it to a scope AR. To make this work, the projector rescales the image and stretches it to fit the full height 16:9 image(so no black bars), then the lens stretches it horizontally back to it's original AR. the only downside is you don't have 1:1 pixel mapping, and you end up with rectangular pixels. But no black bars, and increased brightness since you can use the full size of the imaging chip.


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post #17 of 30 Old 08-30-2019, 07:58 AM
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One important aspect (...not an intended pun...) is that using a Paint Mix that has a decided Grey tint to attenuate Black Bars, yet does not proportionately compromise White and Colors is what allows the "near black" of Format Bars to recede virtually to unnoticeable levels.


As fierce_gt related, Anamorphic modes are intended for use with Anamorphic Lenses, who themselves correct the "Stretch". However one MUST be using such a expensive outboard A-Lens, and those individuals are in the extremely small minority...at least in comparison to the majority of PJ/Screen owners. Of course on AVS, if you chose the right Forum, there seems to be a veritable plethora of such users.



Ever since late 2012 when the PanasonicPT-AE8000u made the adjustments for optimizing the size of 2.35:1 / 16:9 a nearly a fully automatic process, and JVC followed suit closely thereafter, the "Poor Mans Scope Solution" has gained popularity. I myself immediately embraced the idea of using a border-less , as the vast majority of my posted Theater / Screen builds clearly indicate.


And I speak with the authority granted me by actual experience that in the ensuing years, and having listened to literally 10s of thousands of "live" comments, that virtually no one ever stated that it wasn't wholly desirable and cool. And that included 1080p content enlarged out to 144"-180" diagonal sized 2.35:1 . E-Shifted content and Native 4K is just gravy on the 2.40:1 potatoes.


Somewhat sadly, I feel that JVC is sorta lettin' down the Native 4K'ers by not making the sensing of Format changes fully Automatic. The same for Epson. But at least they do have the option.
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post #18 of 30 Old 09-16-2019, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
Message MississippiMan for a quote. I used a half a gallon on a wall that was 8'x12'. That was spraying with an HVLP auto paint gun. If you use an electric sprayer, it might use more paint than my gun.

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post #19 of 30 Old 09-16-2019, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=sddp;58565946]Would a Graco TrueCoat 360 Paint Sprayer work?[/quote @MississippiMan would be the best person to answer that.

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post #20 of 30 Old 09-16-2019, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
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Would a Graco TrueCoat 360 Paint Sprayer work?

It could accomplish the job...to some degree or another, provided one knew exactly what to do to make it apply paint in the correct manner / volume.


However at the cost of the thing, there are better alternatives for no more than or less than it's cost, and they will almost assure you of a perfect end result.

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post #21 of 30 Old 10-15-2019, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
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Wait so, Black Flame paint isn't... black?


And here I was thinking it would not work for me. It looks more like a light brown. Is that correct? Dang maybe I need to do that after all......

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post #22 of 30 Old 10-15-2019, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Wait so, Black Flame paint isn't... black?


And here I was thinking it would not work for me. It looks more like a light brown. Is that correct? Dang maybe I need to do that after all......
No, it's light gray.

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post #23 of 30 Old 10-15-2019, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
No, it's light gray.

@Malodium
Actually, Black Flame is almost infinitely adjustable between being a light Silver'ish White (N/C) to a extremely Dark Neutral Grey that is for all intents and purposes a "Black Screen" (8.0)



One average the most used version is Black Flame v2.5 2.0 as it is excellent as a Neutral Light Silver hued screen being it also improves Contrast & Color saturation. The 2.0 designates the amount in Ounces of the BF Colorant is added. The higher the number (1 to 10) the darker the shade of Grey. (primarily for Ambient Light applications)


Black Flame N/C (no Colorant) is as close to being a Reference White Screen as any surface can be that also has Pearl & Silver Metallic content. Technically, it cannot be "Reference" because it does change up the reflected Image's contrast and color properties. Not as much as the darker Versions, but enough to amount to being "HDR in a Can". That's right...I said it. That's a first such reference I believe...



It's used as the Screen surface in Theaters with $20k projectors and in those with $500 projectors. Neither case is "slum'in.

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post #24 of 30 Old 11-20-2019, 02:25 PM
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This does look amazing and beautiful.

Does anyone have an image showing the black levels?
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post #25 of 30 Old 11-20-2019, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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This does look amazing and beautiful.



Does anyone have an image showing the black levels?
Here's some screenshots on my Black Flame Interstellar screen.

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post #26 of 30 Old 11-22-2019, 02:59 PM
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Here's some screenshots on my Black Flame Interstellar screen.

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Looks beautiful. Is that in a fully treated room?

Any clips with some ambient light?
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post #27 of 30 Old 11-22-2019, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks beautiful. Is that in a fully treated room?



Any clips with some ambient light?
All those pics are in a pitch black room treated with velvet on the ceiling, and the side walls near the screen. Here's a couple pics with some low lighting, from Lost in Space on Netflix.

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post #28 of 30 Old 11-23-2019, 07:38 AM
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Great picture, I'm just setting out on my research journey today.
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post #29 of 30 Old 12-01-2019, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
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All those pics are in a pitch black room treated with velvet on the ceiling, and the side walls near the screen. Here's a couple pics with some low lighting, from Lost in Space on Netflix.

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Nah ah! That's amazing. I know camera's don't really show exactly what you see but still wow.

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post #30 of 30 Old 12-04-2019, 02:01 PM
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I need this Black Flame paint (the commercial version) on my pull down screen, or maybe a the new DIY screen I'll work on, since my room is asymmetrical and the wall is uneven with thePJ. I have my own electric sprayer and have some experience painting my screen with it now.
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