Time for the fun part! (AT Screen Build / Suggestions) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 42 Old 10-01-2019, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Time for the fun part! (AT Screen Build / Suggestions)

Hey guys, I'm not new to AVS - but I am new to the DIY screens. In my previous house I made my screen from stacking sheetrock and 'Black Widow' paint mix. This time I am going for an AT screen.

Thought I would drop by with some photos of my new area and welcome any suggestions! Trying to decide on a few things:

-Screen Size (135"? 150"?) Room is long...projector will be 16-18' back from wall
-What material to use. Appears that most are using Millskin white over black?
-Anything bigger than 120" horizontal will need this fabric....but it only comes in white. https://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/15949
-Spandex World appears to be the place to order? Need to decide on how many yards...
-Will build the frame with kreg jig this week.


Info on theater:

Haven't purchase most equipment yet
5.2.4 wired (planning on Klipsch)
Philips Hue bulbs in sconces
Philips Hue lights behind the screen
Philips Hue HDMI sync box
Movie posters on the walls, one concealing a hidden mini fridge

I have done all the framing, electrical, plumbing etc - so now it's the fun part!
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post #2 of 42 Old 10-01-2019, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottphillips88 View Post
Hey guys, I'm not new to AVS - but I am new to the DIY screens. In my previous house I made my screen from stacking sheetrock and 'Black Widow' paint mix. This time I am going for an AT screen.

Thought I would drop by with some photos of my new area and welcome any suggestions! Trying to decide on a few things:

-Screen Size (135"? 150"?) Room is long...projector will be 16-18' back from wall
-What material to use. Appears that most are using Millskin white over black?
-Anything bigger than 120" horizontal will need this fabric....but it only comes in white. https://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/15949
Hello!


Two Questions and a Correction:
  • Q. What Projector will you /do want to employ?
  • Q. Preferred Screen Format 16:9 Standard C.I.W.? 2.39:1 C.I.H ?
  • C. The "Horizontal" (length) in unrestricted. 120" Spandex is for those whose Vertical Screen Height exceeds 66"+>
Quote:
Spandex World appears to be the place to order? Need to decide on how many yards...
If you constrain your screen's height to where you can use 58" Milliskin (66" max), you will need between 3.5 and 4 Yards of each...Black and White

Quote:

-Will build the frame with kreg jig this week.
Don't be too hasty.....How big the screen will be and what Format it will be....and where your planning to place the Screen, and what your considering to put behind it...all will have everything to do with your Frame's design. Let's narrow down things first by determining exactly what the "scope" of your plans are.
Quote:
Info on theater:

Haven't purchase most equipment yet
5.2.4 wired (planning on Klipsch) Looks like you made things easy on your Screen construction and budget w/a "In-Wall" Center. Good Call!
Philips Hue bulbs in sconces
Philips Hue lights behind the screen
Philips Hue HDMI sync box
Movie posters on the walls, one concealing a hidden mini fridge

I have done all the framing, electrical, plumbing etc - so now it's the fun part!
Ya thin so? I would suppose this is your first stop since you have no recent Posts...and none on either of the Home Theater Builder Forums.

That's another Good Call because unless your ready to spend a bundle changing things to suit many, many others, we often advise on every aspect of building Home Theaters.

Relate your preferences for your PJ....Screen Format of choice...and what your Throw distance is...

........and we'll be off to the races!
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post #3 of 42 Old 10-01-2019, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply! I have been using AVS for many years....just mostly reading and posting in the Whole Home Audio space.

A- Projector is up in the air. I have been following the 'faux' 4k models for a year. UHD50 seems to suit my needs for throw distance, just not sold on over-scan issues. (I put enough wood header in the ceiling to allow for 16-18' throw length easily.
A- 16:9 for aspect
A- Looks like I should measure my wall and decide if I want any bigger than 135"....at 135" my height is 66.2" correct? I guess you are accounting for the stretch?

With how long this room is, I really need bigger than 120" screen. Yes - I built in the center channel in the wall when I framed. Also included power for LED's behind the screen. The L / R channels will be floorstanding and I don't mind looking at them....will cover the wall in some type of rock where the screen doesn't cover.

Not 100% sure what you mean about not posting sooner. This is my 3rd home theater I have built...so I'm pretty sure I know what I want, but half the fun is the design and the comments....so thanks!
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post #4 of 42 Old 10-01-2019, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by scottphillips88 View Post
Thanks for the reply! I have been using AVS for many years....just mostly reading and posting in the Whole Home Audio space.

A- Projector is up in the air. I have been following the 'faux' 4k models for a year. UHD50 seems to suit my needs for throw distance, just not sold on over-scan issues. (I put enough wood header in the ceiling to allow for 16-18' throw length easily.
A- 16:9 for aspect
A- Looks like I should measure my wall and decide if I want any bigger than 135"....at 135" my height is 66.2" correct? I guess you are accounting for the stretch?
At 135" diagonal 16:9 you are already at the lower limit "Lumen-wise"with a UHD50 A Spandex Screen is only 0.7 gain, and you cannot even place that PJ at anything over 15'-8"....because that is the maximum throw for that size. At 15'-4" you'd get 14 fl off the screen.

Also, even if you opted instead to place the PJ at it's "Minimum Throw" for 135" diagonal (12'-2") you still only get 15 fl


Here's where it stops being Fun. If you can get that UHD50 back to where it can from....do it. It's simply not bright enough for the job.

You need the UHD51ALV.....badly. With that PJ you'd get 19 fl @ 12-2" UHD52ALV ? 23 fl @ 12'-2"

Quote:
Not 100% sure what you mean about not posting sooner. This is my 3rd home theater I have built...so I'm pretty sure I know what I want, but half the fun is the design and the comments....so thanks!
Well let's hope you still feel that way after all the above. And Below.


Not posting sooner is regarding this particular Build. A PJ bought that isn't suited for the job is essentially worthless. Your not wanting to go smaller. Your stated Throw distance is too long. Pretty much there is no joy in what I have to relate.

You will want to have a great HDR experience....as it stands now that simply is not gonna happen.

I sincerely hope your within a PJ Exchange period. The ONLY other non-DIY AT screen material even remotely worth considering because it performs and looks as good as Spandex (ie:V6 Dream Screen) costs several $100s more (900 to 1000) for 135" up and all you'd gain is a teeny 0.18 more gain. That extra expense isn't worth it...not by any reasonable judgement.

Nope...you gotta go with a brighter PJ, or risk trying to use one of the 1.1-1.2 gain Mfg. AT Materials. The risk is this....you will see the Weave (or Perforations) and possible Morie. Buy-in for the least expensive types is still $3-400. That difference will slide you into a brighter PJ

Or...go with a 120" AT Spandex screen and mount the PJ at it's minimum possible Throw distance for that size. Then you'd be up closer to 28 fl with a UHD52ALV

Gee......I feel like a Stinker.

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post #5 of 42 Old 10-02-2019, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! - I haven't purchased any of the equipment yet....I have been watching the UHD forums for a year. Thank you for the suggestion on the ALV models. I'll start learning more about those. Also really need to explore the Epson models. (I have simply always owned Optoma, but I'm not sure why)

Back to the screen -- I measured it out today and came up with 135" as the ideal size. (You can see the 4 corners in black sharpie if you look close. The rest of the wall I will cover in some type of rock or tile that looks like rock. We are exploring what we like and deciding how white or black the rock should be.

Q - With 135" being my target, that puts me at 66.2" in height. This seems to be problematic as I can either get 120" wide fabric and waste a lot or get the 58/60" wide fabric and be a little too short? Does it stretch a full 6"?

Once the screen is moved off of the wall a full 4-6" for my LED backlighting and the projector is mounted forward of my outlet, I'm looking at ~14' from the front of the lense to the screen.
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post #6 of 42 Old 10-02-2019, 10:11 AM
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Well good....I'm glad your PJ option is open.


Your Screen Frame design will have to meet certain criteria if your to have LED Lighting, but I cannot see either the purpose or need to place the Screen assembly 4"to 6"off the wall. A normal Spandex Screen Frame of the size your envisioning is just under 3" deep. when one uses 1x3 Lumber for the Exterior Frame. For your purposed LED lighting, you'll need 1x4 Lumber for the Exterior Frame, overlaid with 1x2 set Flat and forward to the leading edge of the 1x4 Frame,

This is because the 1x4 Frame MUST sit flush against the Wall to prevent light leakage behind the Screen itself. The good news is that the most accepted mounting method for the Screen (A Ripped 1x8 Wood French Cleat) does exactly that...pulls the Screen frame tightly against the wall.

I can provide a detailed Drawing of the Frame construction, w/measurements...along with a needed list of the specific materials...if you'd like me to.

Projector-wise, choosing the Epson 5050ub would be a "prefect world" choice. Set at a 16' Throw, it would deliver a 4K (EShift) 135" diagonal image that would reach up to 30 fl on Spandex. A 13'-8" Throw (shortest advisable) would garner you 33 fl. Either way...your back up to your desired 135" size.

However (...there just had to be a "However"...) if it was possible to relocate the Bar so that the front seating was closer to the Front Wall, a 120" image would be considerably more in keeping with getting excellent HDR. 38 fl. at 14' Throw....much better all around, and the closer in viewing point allows the 120"er to have exactly the same impact as a 135" would when seated further back.



Or...moving closer can make the 135"er look like a 150"er! Closer is better for several different reasons beside the Projector's ability to deliver a dynamic Image alone.


Size matters...but too often seems to be the only criteria people use when designing their Theaters. Again....coming in late in the game doesn't let me suggest a lot more that "what ifs" and "it would be better to'"....things that can be disallowed all to easily at this juncture.

But let me add this. The positioning of your Surrounds and Atmos drivers become all the more easier, and the end aural results all the more better in a collapsed Floor Plan. Your Theater is significantly longer (deeper) than it is wide across the Front Sound Stage...and that affects every aspect of performance.
  • Sound Stage Imaging (relates to Surround and Atmos positioning)
  • Volume potentially needed
  • Acoustic considerations (relates to Volume requirements)
  • Image size requirements to make for a "Theater-Like" environment.(relates to visual quality and dynamics)
Now you can ignore all that and still be happy with the end results....but happy doesn't equate to being ecstatic, or amazed. And at this point in time you are still well situated for creating amazing end results. Will that happen? S'up to you to decide.

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post #7 of 42 Old 10-02-2019, 10:23 AM
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Do you want to have a Zero Edge look with a LED Light Umbra around the Edges? Or a Black Frame?

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post #8 of 42 Old 10-02-2019, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I can provide a detailed Drawing of the Frame construction, w/measurements...along with a needed list of the specific materials...if you'd like me to.
Well geez - that would be great. That's just short of driving here and building it for me! THANKS! (Still pondering the size of the fabric needed too)

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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Projector-wise, choosing the Epson 5050ub would be a "prefect world" choice.
Thank you - already heading to the thread to dive in.

Quote:
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However (...there just had to be a "However"...) if it was possible to relocate the Bar so that the front seating was closer to the Front Wall, a 120" image would be considerably more in keeping with getting excellent HDR.
We went back and forth on viewing distance many times. I do realize that my seating is further back than most suggest. Also was torn on making my couch platform higher...but we settled on a 2X6 on top of a 2X4 while most in the forums go much higher.


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But let me add this. The positioning of your Surrounds and Atmos drivers become all the more easier, and the end aural results all the more better in a collapsed Floor Plan. Your Theater is significantly longer (deeper) than it is wide across the Front Sound Stage...and that affects every aspect of performance.
My Atmos placement is also not 100% ideal, but I had many considerations with HVAC and sewer lines in the way. Ultimately I got them as close to the Atmos spec as I could.
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post #9 of 42 Old 10-02-2019, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you want to have a Zero Edge look with a LED Light Umbra around the Edges? Or a Black Frame?
Undecided. I can see pros and cons with both. I figured I might need the black frame to make my LEDs work the way I envisioned. Ideally I might use the new Philips Hue light bars behind the screen. https://www.amazon.com/Philips-White...0036835&sr=8-3

But I'm open to thoughts either way. If you can't tell, ambient lighting is really cool to me -- and I have it all over my upstairs and landscape.
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post #10 of 42 Old 10-02-2019, 01:38 PM
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Well geez - that would be great. That's just short of driving here and building it for me! THANKS! (Still pondering the size of the fabric needed too)
I can do that...have done that...just recently 'doned' that....but teaching DIY'ers how to get'ter dun is my primary goal on this Forum

You'd need 3.5 yards of each. Black & White. 66" is doable....you just have to be exacting in how much you stretch it in each direction.....equality rules.



Quote:
Thank you - already heading to the thread to dive in.
You'll be a Daisy when ya do......the 5050 has all the attributes and features you need....everything the older 5040ub should'a had...but didn't.

Quote:
We went back and forth on viewing distance many times. I do realize that my seating is further back than most suggest. Also was torn on making my couch platform higher...but we settled on a 2X6 on top of a 2X4 while most in the forums go much higher.
All that seems top oint to you having Floor Seating, Riser Seating (10" is the minimum height, BTW) and a Bar.

Quote:
My Atmos placement is also not 100% ideal, but I had many considerations with HVAC and sewer lines in the way. Ultimately I got them as close to the Atmos spec as I could.
Well I like to state that the Dolby Atmos Spec guidelines are just that...guidelines, not ironclad rules. After all, early on in Atmos, the madmen at Dolby Labs themselves advocated the use of Modules that sat on top Speakers, and to this day some very respected Speaker Mfg still design some expensive Speakers with built in Atmos -oriented drivers that are supposed to direct sound to the Ceiling and bounce it into the proposed listening area. Yeah...bounce. Now for those with absolutely no other option to consider...OK, let 'em eat Cake.

Different Speakers with varying Dispersion characteristics can mitigate less than idea positioning. Speakers w/Position-able Woofers / Tweeters can help greatly....but just the same, using the wrong type speaker in the wrong location gets you nothing but noise. The same applies with Surrounds. A room like yours screams for Di-Pole Speakers....so?

Now back to the Screen:

Quote:
But I'm open to thoughts either way. If you can't tell, ambient lighting is really cool to me -- and I have it all over my upstairs and landscape.
DIY "AT" Screen Frames that can incorporate Bias Lighting must be made so that no light can intrude into the area behind the Screen...for every obvious reason you can imagine. (...I'm repeating myself...) But the method / build does not have to be bulky or difficult to manage...just done correctly. And choosing the right lighting is just as essential.

You can look for some Framing ideas and solutions coming your direction soon. If you want any advice on the Speaker choices...I'll be glad to assist on that as well. I keep abreast of what is out there and what works great for the least....everything great sounds greater when it doesn't cost a great amount.
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post #11 of 42 Old 10-02-2019, 02:11 PM
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Undecided. I can see pros and cons with both. I figured I might need the black frame to make my LEDs work the way I envisioned.
Just to address the above......a Zero Edged design w/Lighting is to die for IMO....but is a bit more difficult to make, where as a Black Velvet Wrapped 2.5" "overlapping" Trim overlaid around the Screen's Edge to create the formatted area is fairly easy...if you have a Miter Saw.

Here's the thing....you get the PJ....hang it and shoot the wall to determine exactly what size your screen will be. Measure & mark the image perimeter, then build the Frame accordingly. You can get a perfectly framed Zero Edge that way....or with a Black Border, do a slightly less exacting job and let the Velvet mask your ineptitude.

A last thing....be careful about your choices for Screen Wall Decor. Stone isn't going to serve well as far as reflecting light effects. And there is this...many do not realize that perimeter lighting all to often creates adverse reflections off Ceilings and Walls that are in close proximity. A nasty Feedback Loop is created. The Projected light returns to detract from the Screen's image quality. Such surfaces absolutely must be "colored" so as to attenuate light. That does not have to mean Black (ugh) but a darker neutral color in a Flat is an of magnitude better that a White or light Pastel.
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post #12 of 42 Old 10-02-2019, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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A last thing....be careful about your choices for Screen Wall Decor. Stone isn't going to serve well as far as reflecting light effects. And there is this...many do not realize that perimeter lighting all to often creates adverse reflections off Ceilings and Walls that are in close proximity. A nasty Feedback Loop is created. The Projected light returns to detract from the Screen's image quality. Such surfaces absolutely must be "colored" so as to attenuate light. That does not have to mean Black (ugh) but a darker neutral color in a Flat is an of magnitude better that a White or light Pastel.
Another thing to worry about....Some of these stones have 'sparkles' in them. I'll bet that could get highly annoying if the projector highlights those while watching a movie. hmmmm

Probably not the place to discuss projectors at length...but I have stumbled onto the 3000lm BenQ TK800m. This is an interesting choice I have not seen before. Appears they have finally fixed the overscan issues.
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post #13 of 42 Old 10-02-2019, 04:06 PM
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Another thing to worry about....Some of these stones have 'sparkles' in them. I'll bet that could get highly annoying if the projector highlights those while watching a movie. hmmmm

'Zactly so. And now is the time to consider such. Also bear in mind that a Front Wall that reflects sound waves it receives ahead of it can cause all sorts of bad stuff. That is why many Theaters use sound absorbing materials....Curtain in the least, to help dampen down such reflected frequencies.


Quote:
Probably not the place to discuss projectors at length...but I have stumbled onto the 3000lm BenQ TK800m. This is an interesting choice I have not seen before. Appears they have finally fixed the overscan issues.

Nonsensical! Screens of any type require Projectors...and Projectors that are correctly chosen for a given Screen application make both look their best.


Many of us on DIY Screens know as much about PJs as we do about Paint, Cloth, and Vinyl...go figure. Speakers...Room Decor...Lighting...Equipment location.....Seating, virtually every aspect of room design impacts viewing, so we gotta take it all into account.


If you let us.


And since you brought it up..... that BenQ...furgitabowdit. It's a Dog. Not nearly as bright as it claims, and it has no Lens Shift whatsoever. The latter means you'll have to use a slide rule and prayer to get the Image to square with your screen.

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post #14 of 42 Old 10-04-2019, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow - this projector decision is way more complicated than I thought. I'm with you now on needing to figure out the projector first before building the screen.

Optoma UHD50 - Not bright enough / overscan issues / No HLG
Optoma UHD51ALV - Bright! Does not support HLG for HDR / input lag (71ms) / overscan issues
Epson 5050 - Too expensive...other than price, I can't find a con on this one?
Benq TK800m - Probably too 'budget' review photos make the contrast look terrible. BUT it has the newest HLG support/18gbHDMI
Benq HT3550 - newer chipset 'sweet spot' for price / HLG ...maybe not bright enough

I'm rambling now and have lots more reading to do. Seems to me that Epson is the clear winner, but I don't want to spend $3k. Optoma has always been my go-to...but they are in desperate need of an update. I wonder when that will come, they need to use the new chips with less overscan and HLG support. As of right now it seems like a previously unconsidered brand (BenQ) is looking pretty interesting.
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post #15 of 42 Old 10-04-2019, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I think I am following how you are calculating FL now and it's importance. Thanks for pointing that out. With my setup: (135" screen mounted ~14.5') Screen gain is .7 as you suggested?


UHD50 14FL
UHD51ALV 21FL
TK800M 23FL
HT3550 17FL
Epson 5050 32FL

Ugh - more reason to get the Epson...I really want an updated UHD51ALV

EDIT wow - there is a massive difference between "manufacture spec" and "projectorcentral estimate". For instance, the frontrunner for me...HT3550 drops from 17 to 8! OMG

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post #16 of 42 Old 10-04-2019, 12:04 PM
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The 5050ub will go on sale next week. Expect a $200.00 drop during the Sale period.


The AVS Classifieds have a few good choices in JVC and Epson models.


Don't be hasty......bide at least a little time (...another week or two...) before pulling the trigger on anything.
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post #17 of 42 Old 10-11-2019, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
The 5050ub will go on sale next week. Expect a $200.00 drop during the Sale period.


The AVS Classifieds have a few good choices in JVC and Epson models.


Don't be hasty......bide at least a little time (...another week or two...) before pulling the trigger on anything.
Whew - what a few days. I literally have a headache going through all my screen options. I have swung from getting an expensive material rather than spandex all the way to scrapping the entire idea of AT and moving the center below the screen.

As I look to purchase a 4k projector, I hate the idea of losing quality from a 'cheap spandex' screen. But the reality is I'm not going to spend big money on a screen....My painted wall was super duper great with my Optoma HD20 back in the day.

I do keep running into builds utilizing a spandex screen and they seem to be more than happy with them. For now I have lots of alerts setup for projector deals....and I might let the timing slip all the way into Christmas time... patience...
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post #18 of 42 Old 10-11-2019, 07:11 PM
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Christmas will be a "If ya snooze, ya lose" situation. To be sure, your best deals on a PJ will come between now and Cyber Monday.


Right now is a great time...as one who knows the Market and choices well, I can say that there are deals on specific PJs going on right now that will NOT be Black Friday deals.


You have my eyeballs bouncing back and forth.....are you going with Spandex or a Solid Screen?



The "Solid" has the advantage in as much as spectacular visual performance it assured...performance that can be matched exactly to your PJ choice and viewing situation. That would be a Painted Screen...of course...if you want value and performance combined.



Choosing expensive AT material doesn't deliver you enough to be worth it....and the very best of such cannot touch a properly Sprayed high performance Screen app. If Cloth is used...it may well as be Spandex.


But you know...the PJ is the big ticket item, and it looks like to me you need to either take some sage advice and jump on a good suggestion now and plan your screen around it, or rapidly decide yourself, purchase it....and then plan your screen around it.

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post #19 of 42 Old 11-26-2019, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm back...Lots of work in the basement with daily projector reading. Updated pictures...spent a long time working on fireplace and decided to skip the rock around the screen for now. Worried I might get some nasty reflections.

Now my big questions:

-- I'm looking closely at a model I had not considered. Epson 3200 is a front-runner for me right now. Great brightness (25FL given .7 gain spandex at 135") What say you about this choice? You have brought me to really consider brightness.

--I'm no longer seeing the 120" wide white spandex on amazon. Looking to buy at SpandexWorld possibly tomorrow. 4 Yards?

Thanks for all the help!
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post #20 of 42 Old 11-27-2019, 08:31 AM
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Instead...you might consider looking to the Epson 3800.


Better overall image, a wee bit brighter but w/higher Contrast and more imaging features


However I cannot validate your stated 25 fl on 135" diagonal of 0.7 gain Spandex. I come up with just 18 fl @ 13.5' throw. The 3800 delivers 19 fl @ 13.5'
......and yeah...that horrid 'ol 5050 develops 33 fl @ 13'-8".... and that amounts to more that a significant difference....it would be the difference between "That looks great" and "OMG...I NEVER expected it to look that good!"



Back to the question of screen format.


A 135" 16:9 is 66" high. You can...if you do it carefully and correctly, stretch the 58" wide spandex to 11" total (5.5" each direction) with no issues, so using 120" wide spandex is neither necessary or advisable.



That same 135" 16:9 is 118" long, so to do your size screen you need 3.5 yards of White and Black
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post #21 of 42 Old 11-27-2019, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
@scottphillips88



Instead...you might consider looking to the Epson 3800.


Better overall image, a wee bit brighter but w/higher Contrast and more imaging features


However I cannot validate your stated 25 fl on 135" diagonal of 0.7 gain Spandex. I come up with just 18 fl @ 13.5' throw. The 3800 delivers 19 fl @ 13.5'
......and yeah...that horrid 'ol 5050 develops 33 fl @ 13'-8".... and that amounts to more that a significant difference....it would be the difference between "That looks great" and "OMG...I NEVER expected it to look that good!"



Back to the question of screen format.


A 135" 16:9 is 66" high. You can...if you do it carefully and correctly, stretch the 58" wide spandex to 11" total (5.5" each direction) with no issues, so using 120" wide spandex is neither necessary or advisable.



That same 135" 16:9 is 118" long, so to do your size screen you need 3.5 yards of White and Black


Appreciate you chiming back in so quickly. I have learned a lot. I'm glad to see you aren't totally against this projector

What am I doing wrong with this calculator? 25fl with projector central estimate and 33fl with manufacture specs. I am not opposed to 3800 rather than 3200. Both are where I want to spend money wise.

Now the 5050 - I have seen that in person and it's incredible. But, it's massive and another grand. I'm looking at a 3200 for only $1000 after BF deal + gift cards.

With the Epson back in contention rather than a DLP, I'm also looking at fishing new lines through my ceiling to get the projector BEHIND the bar, rather than right above the couch. (19-20') Currently have my lines around 15' if I recall. Epson allows for massive throw and lens shift.
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post #22 of 42 Old 11-27-2019, 09:35 AM
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Not that massive a Shift, but an adequate Throw. Lumen effectiveness (& fl.) goes down with longer Throws. You wanna be safe...stick to the shorter Throw. T'would be the wisest course to take considering Spandex is being used.

I'm not going to go so far as to say the readings your getting using the newer Calculator are absolutely bogus...I checked another Calculator as well, but it was based on the exact same program so that was essentially a useless effort. The older Calculator I use is more conservative, and is therefore in my opinion the better one to use.

But the proof is in the results you get, and if your in your own comfort zone getting the 3200 because of what YOU see, then get on with yur bad self and make it happen!

I for one hope your the one whose more correct because if you are I'll be switching over to the newer Calculator.

I doubt it though because everything I know tells me ain't NO WAY you'll get over 30 fl on a 0.7 gain surface w/2900 lumen.


...........but I wanna be wrong.
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post #23 of 42 Old 11-27-2019, 10:07 AM
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I can't speak for either of the calculators you're both using, but a 135" 16:9 0.7gain screen will divide your projector's lumen output by about 77.5 if I'm not mistaken (a 54.25sq-ft screen area with an 0.7gain modifier).

The Epson 3800 only loses about 6% of its brightness at full telephoto VS closes/largest zoom, but its brightest lamp setting is said to be bothersomely loud if you aren't noise-isolating it. Luckily the quiter medium-lamp setting is still 90% as bright. The Dynamic preset has the typical green tint, but the rest of its presets are said to be nicely accurate, meaning you start with 2000-2100lm of brightness depending on your zoom (using Medium-lamp and BrightCinema preset).

A 2000-2100lm projector hitting a 135" 0.7gain screen should expect to begin with about 26.5ftL of brightness.
This falls to about 21ftL when switched from Medium-lamp to Eco-lamp.
If you're okay with the extra noise and green tint of DynamicPreset at FullLamp, the Epson3800 can push a 135" 0.7gain screen up to 35.5ftL on a fresh lamp.

If your respective calculator is assuming a different brightness amount, you might want to manually input the more realistic brightness you can often find measured from professional reviews.
Also doublecheck that your calculator isn't doing anything crazy about the dimming from zoom amounts, some calculators make pretty wild assumptions that can be way off about this in either direction.
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post #24 of 42 Old 11-27-2019, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not seeing any red flag with this - so I think this weekend I will be pulling the trigger. I'll keep posting my screen build here and ultimately if I'm happy with it.

I am only going AT to place the center behind the screen, so if I'm not happy, I will replace the spandex and move the center below. Might be a fun experiment to see how much I like the center coming directly from the screen.

I too was only seeing at max 2FL loss when moving projector all the way from 14 to 22 feet. Seems like not a lot of loss, but again this could be an inaccurate calculator. I have easy access from my utility room to drop another power, so I'm going to end up with a spot to mount at 15ft as well as at 21 feet. Best of both worlds I suppose? Wish I would have considered this projector sooner as adding those lines is much easier before the sheetrock...
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post #25 of 42 Old 12-13-2019, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
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Instead...you might consider looking to the Epson 3800.


Better overall image, a wee bit brighter but w/higher Contrast and more imaging features


However I cannot validate your stated 25 fl on 135" diagonal of 0.7 gain Spandex. I come up with just 18 fl @ 13.5' throw. The 3800 delivers 19 fl @ 13.5'
......and yeah...that horrid 'ol 5050 develops 33 fl @ 13'-8".... and that amounts to more that a significant difference....it would be the difference between "That looks great" and "OMG...I NEVER expected it to look that good!"



Back to the question of screen format.


A 135" 16:9 is 66" high. You can...if you do it carefully and correctly, stretch the 58" wide spandex to 11" total (5.5" each direction) with no issues, so using 120" wide spandex is neither necessary or advisable.



That same 135" 16:9 is 118" long, so to do your size screen you need 3.5 yards of White and Black
I second the 3800.

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post #26 of 42 Old 12-13-2019, 06:58 AM
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It sounds like you've made your decision already and MississippiMan has forgotten more about theater rooms then I'll ever know, but if your looking at another DIY material, I've heard good things about ScreenAcoustics Ultraweave V6 fabric. I've never seen it in person, so I can't comment, but it might be worth a look.

No matter what you decide to do, good luck and post the results!
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post #27 of 42 Old 12-13-2019, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
It sounds like you've made your decision already and MississippiMan has forgotten more about theater rooms then I'll ever know, but if your looking at another DIY material, I've heard good things about ScreenAcoustics Ultraweave V6 fabric. I've never seen it in person, so I can't comment, but it might be worth a look.

No matter what you decide to do, good luck and post the results!

Yeah...absolutely the V6 Dream Screen material is tops....and it's also the only material that can be compared with Spandex as being so free of weave-oriented artifacts. It's got a 0.85 gain VS the 0.7 gain of Spandex. Darn shame it has to cost 15x as much per Yard.





.........I only wish I could remember everything I've lost. Where are those damn keys?

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post #28 of 42 Old 12-13-2019, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Few updates:

I made my first screen and it was an epic failure. The wood I purchase was the best I could find, but was simply not good enough. The kreg jig did a fine job of holding it together, but I ultimately could not be happy enough with the 'square-ness' of the project.

In the meantime, my fabric has arrived from Spandex World. It cost me $35 in shipping alone to get it 'on a roll' - but alas it is here.

Once I was grumpy with my initial results, I went back to combing through the hundreds of posts from MM on DIY screens. I understand 'on edge' and proper poplar is the preference here. However, wanting to make life difficult and not being happy with my local home depots poplar selection, I went with the same wood I used to trim my basement. It's straight and true and roughly 1X4. I went again with a flat design @ 120 X 67.50. I figured this width would be about the maximum I could stretch my 58" spandex. This time it came out within 1/8th of an inch everywhere. In my testing it's good enough to be border-less and I believe I will skip the velvet altogether.

For bonus points I painted it black and added a 2X2 around the back. This is how I will install my LEDs (pointing at the wall it seems will be preferred)

I'll let the pictures do the rest of the talking - tonight I will be exploring the need for a quarter round to ensure a smooth transition around my corners.

PS - I have been losing sleep on projector choices. I could not resist the black Friday deal on a BenQ TK800M. Boy I'm missing the Epson lense shift already, but I am at peace with my decision.
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post #29 of 42 Old 12-13-2019, 10:51 AM
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Explore your way into using it.....it's needed, although your Frame looks exceedingly well constructed and an added benefit of the 2x2 is that it helps straighten and keep straight the entire assembly.

BenQ TK800M ? Not too bad a choice for a Spandex application, but if you "think" your already missing the H&V Lens Shift now..................just wait. Peace can be a relative thing.

A Epson 3200 would have easily been the Ben'ys equal, and almost the same price. The ability to breeze through the PJ installation? Priceless.


However if the images with the Frame up on the wall are any indication, it looks like you have the situation at least in hand.
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post #30 of 42 Old 12-13-2019, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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..................just wait. Peace can be a relative thing.
Oh I know....I changed my mind a lot. I reckon by the time this bulb is done for I'll be ready for a true non pixel shifter....better yet if laser takes hold.

Here I go to Home Depot in search of the best quarter round!
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