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Can paint mixes have ALR properties?

3K views 59 replies 6 participants last post by  Ftoast 
#1 ·
Can paint mixes have ALR properties?
ALR /Ambient Light Rejecting implies that the light is rejected, with some ALR fabrics having narrow viewing cones as a result.

Can paints do the same? Do paints just absorb the ambient light and reject it uniformly?

I don't think a paint can reproduce the technology incorporated in some screens like lenticular, but what about angular type ALR's?
 
#2 ·
Some ALR screens include embedded reflective elements to help achieve ALR properties. It's possible to include similar reflective elements mixed in translucent paint to achieve similar ALR properties. How the actual performance of an ALR paint would compare with an ALR screen would require objective comparison testing by experienced, unbiased AV reviewers. Otherwise you would need to rely on marketing claims and user comments that may not always be objective and unbiased opinions from people with experience in making such judgments.
 
#3 ·
Can paint mixes have ALR properties?
ALR /Ambient Light Rejecting implies that the light is rejected, with some ALR fabrics having narrow viewing cones as a result.

Can paints do the same? Do paints just absorb the ambient light and reject it uniformly?

I don't think a paint can reproduce the technology incorporated in some screens like lenticular, but what about angular type ALR's?
Yes they can do "Angular"......that has always be easy enough to accomplish simply by maintaining Gain while at the same time deepening the Black and retaining Color dynamics.

Back not to terribly long ago, some few DIY detractors wanted to use just such a limit on viewing cone as a weaponized bludgeon....that is until Screen Mfg started embracing exactly the same "technology". Frankly speaking....advanced DIY Screen making has always been more on the cutting edge than it has been lagging behind playing catch up. Ultra sooth "4K Ready" surfaces for instance....such smoothness has always been a hallmark of a well done DIY Screen. The first noticeably proficient ALR(resistant) DIY Screens hit this Forum all the way back in 2004-05...resulting as an offshoot from the development of paint formulas that could enhance on-screen Contrast without muting White and colors. The caveat being that the more effort that is made to go further down that road, the more restrictive viewing come often becomes.

Candidly, it is exactly the resulting loss of viewing cone that is something that really good ALR (resistant) Paint solutions usually can avoid, and that has always led to the effort to avoid such. As such there are different levels one can aspire to have, something that really isn't practical as far as Mfg Screens are concerned.

The Angular aspect can be taken to extremes.....shucks....a Retro-Reflective Paint is another easily accomplished feature if one can place the Projector accordingly. But other issues such as Screen artifacts (graininess) can ruin the effort, just as they do with retro-reflective Mfg Screens. Such was why back then such longer viewing distances were always suggested by Mfg.

As for true Ambient Light Rejection...well we can still come close, certainly close enough to satisfy most wants and needs. We can also "mostly" avoid the graininess issue. And when one compares the level of proficiency of a painted solution to that of screens that cost $1000s of dollars, DIY'ing a ALR(rejection) screen can do a damnable good job of it.

So now then noob00224 , what's your poison? :cool:
How the actual performance of an ALR paint would compare with an ALR screen would require objective comparison testing by experienced, unbiased AV reviewers. Otherwise you would need to rely on marketing claims and user comments that may not always be objective and unbiased opinions from people with experience in making such judgments.
All throughout the history of DIY Screen making, such a drive to try to qualify DIY by making it undergo the same level of authoritative testing and evaluation that "some" Mfg Screens undergo has been used to dismiss and/or discredit the many extremely glowing testimonials made by the people that matter....the end users who post such exclamations on this Forum.

Really....it's much more clearly definable a choice that all that.

Here's a kicker...I personally have reached out to a few Members whose abilities could qualify them to do such...as well as the Representative of at least 3 Web-Based Review sites. So far, none has taken up the offer.....(Forum Politics no doubt...or demands that finished DIY Screens be provided...) and even Projector Central, who did their own take on what a supposed DIY painted screen would /should be (...and failed miserably...) never responded.

Peer reviews....literally a few 1000s of them have always been more than sufficient, so any attempt to belittle all those member's efforts to express their satisfaction with the end results should be viewed as just being no more or less subjective than the actual member's reviews themselves.
 
#4 ·
@MississippiMan
I'm doing some research for current/future setups.

The setup is a Benq W2000 (HT3050) at x1.5 throw range on a 106" Cinegrey 3D. Room with white walls. Lights off viewing, with small amount of light coming through the blackout blinds. There is also light from a monitor attached to the HTPC, as well as other LED's from electronics around the room.
It has a hotspot and sparkle on Normal and Eco lamp. Even when the previous lamp was at 3500h it still had a hotspot. Black levels are not great. Colors are great.

Compared to the white screen beforehand, it has better blacks and colors.

I know the blacks can go lower because I had a Cinegrey matte (non ALR, but with a 1.0 gain claim). The colors however, were very washed out. Did not take the projector down and sat it at the lowest throw range, maybe that would have improved things.

An enthusiast sent me a few samples of Black Widow variations. One which was called Grey Pearl, claimed the gain was 1.2, was identical to the Cinegrey 3D if placed on the center of the screen. The black floor was the same. Placing it in a corner made a difference because of the hotspot.

I'd like to lower the black floor without losing color pop, and get rid of the hotspot.
Is that possible?
Spraying would be difficult, how long does the paint take to dry?
 
#5 ·
@MississippiMan
I'm doing some research for current/future setups.

The setup is a Benq W2000 (HT3050) at x1.5 throw range on a 106" Cinegrey 3D. Room with white walls. Lights off viewing, with small amount of light coming through the blackout blinds. There is also light from a monitor attached to the HTPC, as well as other LED's from electronics around the room.
It has a hotspot and sparkle on Normal and Eco lamp. Even when the previous lamp was at 3500h it still had a hotspot. Black levels are not great. Colors are great.

Compared to the white screen beforehand, it has better blacks and colors.

I know the blacks can go lower because I had a Cinegrey matte (non ALR, but with a 1.0 gain claim). The colors however, were very washed out. Did not take the projector down and sat it at the lowest throw range, maybe that would have improved things.

I'd like to lower the black floor without losing color pop, and get rid of the hotspot.
Is that possible?

Really...it's "Cave Man" easy and absolutely doable.



Spraying would be difficult, how long does the paint take to dry?

Spraying is actually easier than rolling, as far as getting yourself a perfect surface. But another consideration is that to use Mixes that incorporate Metallic content and Polyurethanes to achieve the ALR performance desired, one cannot Roll....spraying is required. Rolling creates sheen...sheen equates to Hot Spotting.



But take heart....correctly sprayed using what we call the "Duster" method, each coat (7-8 total) takes only 15-20 minutes to dry, making the completion of the entire process only take about 3.5 hours
 
#11 ·
@MississippiMan
Which mix should I be looking at?
There is no Behr in Romania, but there is Dulux, as well as some others:



There are stores that sell Liquitex, Valspar and Rust-Oleum, but could not find the specific variants mentioned in some of the threads.
Can Carl's blackout cloth be used as a base? It has a texture.
 

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#15 ·
I wonder if the FolkArt GunmetalGrey mix would offer a noticeable uniformity/hotspot improvement compared to the Cinegrey3D.

It'll definitely darken the black floor compared to the Cinegrey3D while keeping the colors bold, and it only requires two ingredients (three if you count water) which are available online (sometimes in stores) all over the world. It can safely be used indoors and the resulting surface can be rolled-up for storage after it's cured.
But it does still need to be sprayed on, and I'm not sure if you're interested in looking at different mixes or if your hands are already pretty full.
Either way, let me know.
 
#19 ·
@noob00224
I've been using Silver Fire for many years..... relatively simple to mix and looks AWESOME!!!



Jump in.... the water is fine....


Juju
 
#21 ·
Not sure how relevant this is to the discussion but I've read in other threads that flat black paint that some people have used for walls etc.. rubs off on your hands or is hard to clean etc..


I'm painting the ceiling in my unfinished basement and yesterday I bought some Aqua Lock flat black paint from one of Benjamin Moore's Industrial stores. They recommended it because it's a flat black primer and will stick to anything and should alleviate some of the other issues with normal flat black paint. Just throwing that out there.
 
#25 ·
Not sure how relevant this is to the discussion but I've read in other threads that flat black paint that some people have used for walls etc.. rubs off on your hands or is hard to clean etc..


I'm painting the ceiling in my unfinished basement and yesterday I bought some Aqua Lock flat black paint from one of Benjamin Moore's Industrial stores. They recommended it because it's a flat black primer and will stick to anything and should alleviate some of the other issues with normal flat black paint. Just throwing that out there.

The solution of note has always been to never use a basic Flat latex...but to use a Paint heavy in Acrylic content such as is represented these days as a high quality Primer/Paint. Those types used to be, and still are labeled as "Interior Water Based Enamels" and being such, have surfaces that are not dusty, and that can be wiped with a slightly moistened cloth without damaging the finish.


More importantly for those using a Black for a Ceiling or Wall is that such higher acrylic paints produce a deeper shade of Black, one that appears less Dark Dusty Grey, and coverage for a given amount supplied is much more thorough.



Those type paints in Matte White are a primary component to use in any type Screen paint application....for all the previously stated reasons. Have been for many years on.
 
#24 · (Edited)
FolkArt metallic is usually sold in two different sizes though the larger size is somewhat rare. The more common 200ml/2oz containers typically cost $2 or $3 if you look for them online or call local art/craft shops. Folkart metallic can also be gotten direct from Plaidonline if local shops and other online retailers are unreasonably expensive.
https://plaidonline.com/products/folkart-metallics-gunmetal-gray-2-oz

A full 106"-diagonal 16:9 screen would need 9oz FolkartMetallic (plus 9oz matte waterbased poly and 9oz water) to paint it with this FolkArt mix. That means getting 5 of the little 2oz/200ml bottles through whichever shop or online shop offers the best price at a reasonable drive or shipping time/cost. If MississippiMan's mentioned 4eu+0.78tax is the best price available, that means enough paint for the entire screen would cost about 24eu.
Because the appropriate HVLP sprayer and matte poly are already part of the SilverFire requirements and buying extra isn't needed, that means you could just purchase a single tube or two of FolkArt for testing (there's plenty enough poly in a quart for 16oz in SilverFire and a several oz testing and another 9oz full screen painting if needed).

Instead of practicing with either mix itself though, it may be faster and helpful later on to buy a quart or 8oz tester of inexpensive gloss or high-gloss, white, water-based wall paint and thin that as 2parts paint and 1part water for spraying. This would give you something appropriate to practice with that you can find at any hardware store or many general stores, and the glossy paint finish will show surface imperfections and paint drips more visibly than flat/matte-finish would so you'll have an easier time seeing if something isn't going well to know if you need to adjust your spraying movement speed or overlap a little. Plus, once you've gotten a smooth white finish onto something (like the plywood you mentioned), you'll now have a perfect test surface for spraying a screen mix onto...since all of these sprayed mixes work best on a smooth, white surface.

Like mentioned earlier, I don't know whether or not you'll find the FolkartGunmetalGrey mix to have better uniformity/less-hotspotting than the Cinegrey3D. It should definitely lower the black levels and still have nicely bold colors, but this is why I'm only suggesting trying it first rather than telling you to jump in and paint over your screen.
 
#26 ·
I just saw some pictures of your current hotspot problem, noob00224, and I'm a little worried there might be one of two issues hurting your current Cinegrey3D; one which can be fixed with paint (or even a second/luckier Cinegrey3D), or the other which might be more difficult to fix.
The goofy thing I'm seeing is that the hotspot appears to be very tall and narrow which is unusual, and that's why I suspect it might be one of two things other than the ALR screen.

1. That material (like the 5D and CarlsALR and the SI Slate0.8 and Slate1.3) is designed to have a lightly wider horizontal viewing-cone and narrower vertical viewing-cone..This is both good because a wide viewing-cone is much more useful than a tall/vertical viewing-cone, AND it's helpful because the projector's throw-ratio is naturally "longer" vertically than horizontally...not literally, of course, but in the sense that the screen is short and wide so a plain hotspot on a plain reflective screen (being round) will be more noticeable side-to-side than top-to-bottom. But the wider horizontal viewing-cone stretches the hotspot into a wider oval shape that makes it more subtle side-to-side.
HOWEVER, these materials come in large rolls from only a few suppliers (resold by the screen companies) and sometimes a clueless company will try to cut the fabric more efficiently to create less waste as they're sizing screens...AND THEY END UP MAKING THE VIEWING-CONE TALL AND NARROW. It ends up the exact opposite of what it was intended to be, hurting both the viewing-angles and the uniformity.
This means a paint could work a little better by default, or any screen material that's cut the right way from the roll.
To be clear, I've heard at least one company (not Elite) openly admit to doing this, at least partly out of ignorance for the way their own material works.
If this is what's affecting your screen, the bright colomn should move left/right (as a complete column) as you move left/right while keeping your height and distance roughly the same.

2. The scarier potential cause, the projector's own uniformity might be poor. This can be made worse by the ALR screen, but it'll tend to make ANY ALR screen look much worse than it normally would. It can be caused by the projector's own optic path being a little imperfect OR it can sometimes be caused by the lamp itself. If the uniformity is bad enough I expect you'd be able to see the slightly brighter white center column even when projecting directly onto the plain wall or a flat sheet. Plus, while the screen's main hotspot will move as you move around, a bright center/column caused by the projector uniformity itself would stay in one place. Even IF this is a problem, there's a chance that a new lamp or even simply re-seating the current lamp might fix or at least improve it.
This is also pretty easy to diagnose once you have somethings to look for (via a sheet or wall, and by moving and seeing if there's still some extra brightness in the center along with the brighter moving hotspot).

I'm kind of hoping for #1 though since it's most likely easier to solve.
 
#27 · (Edited)
I just saw some pictures of your current hotspot problem, noob00224, and I'm a little worried there might be one of two issues hurting your current Cinegrey3D; one which can be fixed with paint (or even a second/luckier Cinegrey3D), or the other which might be more difficult to fix.
The goofy thing I'm seeing is that the hotspot appears to be very tall and narrow which is unusual, and that's why I suspect it might be one of two things other than the ALR screen.

1. That material (like the 5D and CarlsALR and the SI Slate0.8 and Slate1.3) is designed to have a lightly wider horizontal viewing-cone and narrower vertical viewing-cone..This is both good because a wide viewing-cone is much more useful than a tall/vertical viewing-cone, AND it's helpful because the projector's throw-ratio is naturally "longer" vertically than horizontally...not literally, of course, but in the sense that the screen is short and wide so a plain hotspot on a plain reflective screen (being round) will be more noticeable side-to-side than top-to-bottom. But the wider horizontal viewing-cone stretches the hotspot into a wider oval shape that makes it more subtle side-to-side.
HOWEVER, these materials come in large rolls from only a few suppliers (resold by the screen companies) and sometimes a clueless company will try to cut the fabric more efficiently to create less waste as they're sizing screens...AND THEY END UP MAKING THE VIEWING-CONE TALL AND NARROW. It ends up the exact opposite of what it was intended to be, hurting both the viewing-angles and the uniformity.
This means a paint could work a little better by default, or any screen material that's cut the right way from the roll.
To be clear, I've heard at least one company (not Elite) openly admit to doing this, at least partly out of ignorance for the way their own material works.
If this is what's affecting your screen, the bright colomn should move left/right (as a complete column) as you move left/right while keeping your height and distance roughly the same.

2. The scarier potential cause, the projector's own uniformity might be poor. This can be made worse by the ALR screen, but it'll tend to make ANY ALR screen look much worse than it normally would. It can be caused by the projector's own optic path being a little imperfect OR it can sometimes be caused by the lamp itself. If the uniformity is bad enough I expect you'd be able to see the slightly brighter white center column even when projecting directly onto the plain wall or a flat sheet. Plus, while the screen's main hotspot will move as you move around, a bright center/column caused by the projector uniformity itself would stay in one place. Even IF this is a problem, there's a chance that a new lamp or even simply re-seating the current lamp might fix or at least improve it.
This is also pretty easy to diagnose once you have somethings to look for (via a sheet or wall, and by moving and seeing if there's still some extra brightness in the center along with the brighter moving hotspot).

I'm kind of hoping for #1 though since it's most likely easier to solve.
The lamp was recently changed, the hotspot is the same.
The hotspot follows as I move around, left, right, up, down.
The projector's uniformity is 73%.
Screen starts at 53cm/20.86", eye level 90cm/35.43", lens 192cm/75.59". 106" 16:9 screen.
Pictures with the white screen made out of blackout fabric and the ALR. It behaves strangely at an angle. Pictures taken at 120cm/47.12" height.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/3094730-picking-screen-budget.html#post58659830
 
#32 ·
Using the coated, textured/weave material to test the projector's uniformity for bright/dim spots is fine (or would be if it wasn't doing weird things like you mentioned), but using it for paint testing is a bad idea because it'll make the paints look and perform worse...the more ambient-light rejecting a paint can do, the worse it'll look on a textured surface.
Just warning in case that's the kind of testing you were thinking of..not sure if you were just talking about uniformity testing.
 
#34 ·
Yes, the white coating can help the sprayed-on mixes look more uniform and bright when projected upon.
Also, if you use a glossy white it'll give you a heads-up about how much texture is hiding on the plywood surface before you paint it with a mix...so you'll know whether or not to expect it to look nice with a mix or kind of textured and grainy.
 
#36 ·
Yes, I mean to expect there might be some texture from the plywood. The sprayed on paint itself should add incredibly little to no texture.

I haven't personally had much luck with extra paint coatings making anything smoother over time, but it can sometimes add extra texture if some of the painting goes on too thick or orange-peel like...though several coats might give you a surface that's better for sanding smooth, I've had mixed results when sanding too, sadly.

I'd recommend starting with just enough to get the panel looking uniformly white, then seeing what you think about the texture as-is; no extra coats, no sanding. If possible, post a close-up picture of the white painted surface with a pen/pencil tip nearby for size reference for us to look at.

Either way, I think a painted plywood panel should still be a lot better than the BlackOutClock..even on its smoother side.
 
#38 · (Edited)
You mean, would multiple coats of the dark-colored mix itself affect how the latest coat looks? ..the FolkArt mix is pretty translucent (not a lot of pigment in the FolkArt metallic, and the mix uses a lot of clear polyurethane), and both the FolkArt mix as well as SilverFire are sprayed on really thin/light.
At least with the FA mix I've noticed it turning out dimmer and sometimes less uniform or even grainy when painted onto a dark surface instead of a light one, but I think the mix's own metallic gain helps when it's painted over itself because the heaviest areas naturally have the most metallic gain at the same time. That said, I don't think I've tried painting over an FA mix with more FA mix after it's coated enough to look uniformly colored. I'm pretty sure the last screen I painted over, I first sprayed white, then used the different mix I wanted to test.

..or are you asking something else?

If you're asking about muliple coats of white VS just a couple, it should be good as soon as it looks like a solid color without a bunch of darker spots/specks from thin or missed spots.
 
#39 · (Edited)
You mean, would multiple coats of the dark-colored mix itself affect how the latest coat looks?.
Yes.
I have a small plywood panel with a white coating, and will probably get some more.
Something like this:
https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1TE9mHpXXXXbXXFXXq6xXFXXXZ/222428629/HTB1TE9mHpXXXXbXXFXXq6xXFXXXZ.jpg

I would like to test different mixes to see what is the best, and they would have to be applied one over the other (after the last one is dry and tested).
Wouldn't the multiple layers affect the performance of the (last layer) of paint vs how it would look like when spraying it on a screen (one layer)?

LE: I don't mean the 6-8 coats that are applied when painting a screen.
I want to apply 6-8 coats with a mix, then after it's tested apply 6-8 coats with a different mix.
 
#40 ·
I think the mixes will perform at least a little better if you can make the panel white again before applying the next mix.

I've seen Mississippiman suggest lightly sanding before the final coats of SilverFire and while I don't personally think this is a good idea between coats for the FolkArt mix, I DO think it might help to lightly sand either right before or right after the white coating before beginning a new mix IF there's some texture from the painted layers before it.

I've had some trouble in the past with sanding either doing very little against textured paint (if the paint was relatively hardy) or the sanding itself leaving tiny scratches that could sometimes be worse than the surface-texture was in the first place...or both. So that's why I hesitate to suggest sanding unless it's absolutely needed for something like an obviously textured surface.
I've seen Mississippi suggest using a sanding sponge instead of paper+block to at least minimize the chance of scuffing the surface with a corner/edge.

EDIT: Is that plywood/panel really smooth on the white side, like a white-board you'd use for dry-erase markers?
 
#41 ·
The plywood is not 100% smooth, but more smooth than the surface of Cinewhite for example. Similar to Cinewhite UHD.

Should sanding be done between the 6-8 coats on the final screen?
Or is the sanding to remove or smooth out the paint on the plywood when doing the testing?

The screen will not be plywood, probably Flexi white, a white screen from Harnkness, or whatever similar screen I can find.
 
#45 · (Edited)
Poster Board is another possible surface for samples which can pin up well and be found locally for a few dollars in sizes 50cm x 76cm or larger. The kind that works well will look/feel like a heavy "card stock" sheet with a somewhat satin/shiny wax-like coating on one side. The paper's "waxy" coating and the light/fast sprayed coats prevent the surface from curling or warping from excess moisture, and the heavy cardstock rigidity while being thinner than wood or other panels allows it to settle against other comparison surfaces very smoothly and flat, creating a particularly ideal comparison.

It also happens to be very smooth and white to begin with, so no prep is needed before applying a mix once you're able to apply smooth fast/light sprayed coats. Just pin or tape a sheet onto some kind of firm "backing" where a bit of overspray is safe, paint, fan dry, paint, repeat until you get a nice, even coverage using the duster spray method mentioned earlier. And the low cost allows multiple test surfaces without needing to re-use a surface for different mix trials.
 
#47 ·
I'll see what can be found. Is this something found at school/art supplies or hardware store?

What about a white piece of plastic?
Can the paint be removed, if so with what solution? Paint remover?

@Ftoast @MississippiMan

Kind of related, I was looking into possibly upgrading the PJ, but without treating the room. The Benq has around 1500:1 contrast. In a room with white walls anything with over 2000:1 CR is wasted, how much will a paint mix help with retaining contrast for a projector with say 5000:1 CR. In other words, what is the CR limit for this kind of setup?
Made a thread for a PJ here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-d...103542-best-projector-room-w-white-walls.html
 
#46 ·
Just a heads-up in case it was missed (or I forgot to mention) but I do NOT recommend sanding between coats of the FolkArt mix. The mix itself can spray on incredibly smooth as long as the surface is smooth and clean to begin with and as long as the spraying doesn't accidentally go on too thick/slow where it gets drips/runs/sags.
 
#48 · (Edited)
It's typically more of an art/craft store item. Sometimes in office supply shops too.

A white or light-colored (or white painted) plastic can work as a surface. You're more likely to damage the plastic surface than get a clean removal with physical means, but I'd expect solvent to work as long as the plastic isn't made of something it melts (most should be fine, I think). Depending on the price of the plastic sheet VS the solvent itself though, it might be better to simply get another sheet.
Or if you're looking for something large enough to make a full-size tester but cheap enough to throw away, some hardware stores sell large shrink-tight plastic that's normally used to insulate windows. This can be firmly taped at the edges to something flat and smooth or a frame (or even covering an existing screen), then you hit it with a blow-drier to shrink it tight and smooth. Now you have a paint-able smooth surface that can be purchased in very large sizes for $10-15. The only down-sides of it are it'll either need a white/light-colored backing behind it or to be painted white since it's clear as-is, and it's easily damaged (like a thin garbage bag) so it's okay for testing or practicing, but not a good choice for the final screen material.
It's also something that once you're able to get smooth dusters sprayed on without runs/sags dripping, you can be pretty confident you're ready to paint just about anything.


Even with a plain white screen in a white room, a higher contrast projector can look nicer during darker scenes once the lights are out, and some of the more aggressive ALR screens/paints can buy back your projector's lost contrast as much as ~9X. Obviously the contrast will never exceed the projector's own ~1500:1 (or a high-contrast projector's ~5000:1), but a light-fighting screen can be a powerful bandaid for a light-colored or lit room.
If you can get a good price on a nicer Sony, EpsonUB or JVC that also fits your gaming and 3D needs (if any) that can bring a nice leap in quality for darker scenes. Just keep in mind that brighter scenes as well as most/any watching you do with a decent amount of light in the room will look about 95% as good on the Benq which typically has the advantage of cheaper replacement bulbs...so think about the light you use and the content you tend to watch. But if you're the kind of person who can be bothered by dark scenes looking a little hazy/foggy or blacks just not looking deep enough, then a higher-contrast projector can be a lot of fun.
 
#49 · (Edited)
Even with a plain white screen in a white room, a higher contrast projector can look nicer during darker scenes once the lights are out, and some of the more aggressive ALR screens/paints can buy back your projector's lost contrast as much as ~9X. Obviously the contrast will never exceed the projector's own ~1500:1 (or a high-contrast projector's ~5000:1), but a light-fighting screen can be a powerful bandaid for a light-colored or lit room.
If you can get a good price on a nicer Sony, EpsonUB or JVC that also fits your gaming and 3D needs (if any) that can bring a nice leap in quality for darker scenes. Just keep in mind that brighter scenes as well as most/any watching you do with a decent amount of light in the room will look about 95% as good on the Benq which typically has the advantage of cheaper replacement bulbs...so think about the light you use and the content you tend to watch. But if you're the kind of person who can be bothered by dark scenes looking a little hazy/foggy or blacks just not looking deep enough, then a higher-contrast projector can be a lot of fun.
~9X
So a paint mix (lights off) in a room with white walls can keep 90% of the projector's contrast? Even if contrast ratio is something like 5000:1?
Don't irises increase CR? What would be the limit, in the sense if the projector has 50.000:1, would the paint mix still retain most of it?

LE: trying to figure out the CR upper limit in this kind of scenario.

There is a lot of content with dark scenes, the blacks are very grey. It's bothering. Even on my IPS monitor which has a CR of 3000:1 there is a significant improvement with black levels.
 
#51 ·
More importantly, I think a higher contrast projector will improve your lights-off viewing a good amount more than the screen. But an ALR screen can still help enough that having the two together (both an ALR screen that you like AND a higher-contrast projector) should be even better.

If you can setup a screen with some kind of gentle/subtle backlighting behind it to wash the wall behind/around the screen without really hitting the screen surface itself, that can also help even a low-contrast projector look a lot nicer during darker scenes. I think a nice backlight (be it LED strips or even plain low-lumen LED lamps behind a screen that's set farther forward if possible) can really help. Kind of like how your IPS panel's weak blacks likely bother you a lot more when watching in a dimmer room compared to watching in the bright daylight.


A well-done iris can keep darks darker and might be paired with a projector/display that uses built-in software to stretch the contrast of darker scenes...essentially letting the iris darken the whole image while the panel (DLP/LCD/LCoS) lets middle and lighter parts of the image be brighter than it normally would to compensate for the lost brightness.
Other, more plain iris simply make dark scenes overall dimmer, which can still help blacks to look deeper to at least some extent, but they don't really improve contrast.
 
#54 · (Edited)
It should be possible to make a darker-colored SilverFire-like mix without losing its metallic gain by using matte-black (or very dark grey) paint instead of the matte-white, and trading away the metallic pearl for an appropriate amount of metallic silver to keep the same gain (the rustoleum silver is about 4X stronger than the rustoleum metallic pearl, gain-wise). That could make a "SilverFire" mix as dark as an 0.1gain surface while keeping around 1.0gain. Though I'm pretty sure this is far beyond what most anyone would recommend since the odds of it suffering noticeable screen artifacts increases significantly...and I'm not sure it's accurate to still call it SF after making so many changes.
I also have no idea how the Deco Art metallic compares to the Rustoleum metallic for gain strength..though I doubt it's anywhere close since most metallics are between 4X-8X weaker than the Rustoleum MA Silver. I may not be a fan of the Rustoleum paints for sprayed mixes (because they seem to add more physical texture than other metallics I've sprayed) but I can't deny the ridiculous metallic concentration/gain in that particular silver.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Sounds like you're doing everything you can then.
I've never seen an iris system nor dynamic lamp-dimming that I've really liked, so I feel like native contrast is much more important while an iris is a distant 2'nd place for projector black-levels. I don't think any of those higher-priced DLPs offer a significant native contrast upgrade over your BenQ so I wouldn't personally chase after a DLP with an iris unless it was really affordable (and still used an RGBRGB colorwheel).

The ~0.9gain FolkArt Gunmetal paint will be dimmer than your Cinegrey3D enough to be easily noticeable side-by-side, but it should still be bright enough for the BenQ's accurate and quiet setting to look nice in a darkened room and you'll still have the option to brighten things with FullLamp (and/or a less accurate preset) if you decide to watch while the room is bright enough to make the image need some extra brightness.
And I do think you should try fitting some LED strips behind the screen to wash against the wall behind and around the screen. If attaching to the screen itself doesn't feel like a good option, you might still get decent results attaching them to the wall where they hit the back of the screen and reflect back onto the wall behind it..as long as they aren't out far enough to be seen (because direct-viewed they'll be obnoxiously bright compared to a projected image).


Also, though it won't improve pure blacks, you might want to try setting the projector's gamma to the next setting brighter, then doublecheck your Brightness/black-level control which may need to be nudged down by a click or two.
This isn't the most accurate thing to do to the image, but it mostly just makes some colors a hair less punchy BUT the increased shadow-detail in darker scenes can really help the contrast look nicer in those scenes which need it most. Plus it's easy to turn back if you don't like the change.
 
#59 ·
And I do think you should try fitting some LED strips behind the screen to wash against the wall behind and around the screen. If attaching to the screen itself doesn't feel like a good option, you might still get decent results attaching them to the wall where they hit the back of the screen and reflect back onto the wall behind it..as long as they aren't out far enough to be seen (because direct-viewed they'll be obnoxiously bright compared to a projected image).
Any link to the kind of strips I should be getting?
How would they be powered and controlled, or should they be controlled?
 
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