My SW Duration Screen (OTS) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3Likes
  • 1 Post By Dave in Green
  • 1 Post By MississippiMan
  • 1 Post By TXFlyGuy
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 28 Old 01-11-2020, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
My SW Duration Screen (Off-The-Shelf)

Okay...here we go.


Just finished everything up, and my paint crew spent part of the last 4 days here. From set up, building the paint booth, spraying two heavy coats each of the first 3 days (6 coats total, almost 2 gallons), and take down / clean up / detail touch up, to finish the work today.


The sprayer is an electric pro model, and they run around $4000. A spray wand was employed, with a .13 tip. The paint was not reduced with water, and the pressure used was 2500 psi.
No overlap coats. None. And my painter did one continuous spray application...he did not employ a start / stop method.

For those of you who have not followed this paint exploration, you might look here first to see what got me to this point. It actually started when I taped several sheets of white cardboard on my Behr SS / WOP screen, and saw the results.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...-vs-satin.html

So in the end we chose the SW Duration Extra White, 2 gallons of Matte, and one gallon of Flat. In that 2 to 1 ratio. Strictly off-the-shelf, and very simple.

There is absolutely zero hot spotting! None at all! And the black level is about as good as it was with my Behr SS.


Doing this myself was not an option. Hiring a professional crew, with professional equipment, was my only choice. If you are good at paint rolling, or spraying, you could do this and save the money on labor. This paint can be rolled or sprayed.


This is a "one size fits all" paint. If you have a light controlled room, and want something simple, this is your solution. Off-the-shelf, no complicated mix, no fuss, readily available at your local Sherwin-Williams store. This works with 720P, 1080P, 4K. We even have an older JVC S-VHS player that looks pretty good on this screen!



We are very pleased with the results.
The hardware includes a new Epson 5050UB, a Panasonic DP-UB820, and a Yamaha CX-A5200 AV Pre-Amp Processor. Note the Epson 5050UB is set at Cinema mode (3rd brightest). In Dynamic, it is much brighter. Also, we are on the mid-power level, to extend the lamp life.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050414.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	548.3 KB
ID:	2668384   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050415.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	905.3 KB
ID:	2668386   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050416.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	923.8 KB
ID:	2668388   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050417.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	760.2 KB
ID:	2668390   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050430.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	979.1 KB
ID:	2668392  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050431.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	1.05 MB
ID:	2668394   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050433.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	809.2 KB
ID:	2668396   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050434.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	610.4 KB
ID:	2668398   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050427.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	662.7 KB
ID:	2668400   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050443.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	657.5 KB
ID:	2668404  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050449.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	511.8 KB
ID:	2668406   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050452.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	521.5 KB
ID:	2668408   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050453.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	398.8 KB
ID:	2668410   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050456.JPG
Views:	34
Size:	1.18 MB
ID:	2668412   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050436.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	329.3 KB
ID:	2668416  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050439.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	289.7 KB
ID:	2668418   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050444.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	643.1 KB
ID:	2668420   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050438.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	345.7 KB
ID:	2668442   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050447.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	517.2 KB
ID:	2668446   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050448.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	396.0 KB
ID:	2668448  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050442-001.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	483.4 KB
ID:	2668450  

Last edited by TXFlyGuy; 01-13-2020 at 06:19 PM.
TXFlyGuy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Took a couple more shots. You can actually "feel" the heat as the Shuttle lifts off!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050457.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	751.3 KB
ID:	2668652   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050458.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	580.8 KB
ID:	2668654   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050459.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	558.0 KB
ID:	2668656  
TXFlyGuy is offline  
post #3 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 09:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,649
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3953 Post(s)
Liked: 3128
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXFlyGuy View Post
... The sprayer is an electric pro model, and they run around $4000. ...
A $4k sprayer obviously means that most DIYers won't be exactly replicating this project.
Dave in Green is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 09:34 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 17,136
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7497 Post(s)
Liked: 9111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
A $4k sprayer obviously means that most DIYers won't be exactly replicating this project.


You can rent sprayers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Craig Peer is online now  
post #5 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 09:47 AM
Member
 
Dennis Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
A $4k sprayer obviously means that most DIYers won't be exactly replicating this project.
I mean, it's an airless... it's just a nice contractor's tool. The quality of the paint job doesn't really depend on how expensive the sprayer is.
Dennis Moore is offline  
post #6 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Moore View Post
I mean, it's an airless... it's just a nice contractor's tool. The quality of the paint job doesn't really depend on how expensive the sprayer is.

True. My paint crew has nice stuff. High tech, too. If you are good at spraying, this would be the ticket. That is, renting vs. buying.
They used a smaller tip than recommended. The manufacturer says .15 to .19, at 2000 psi.
We used .13, at 2500 psi. Not diluted.
The finished quality depends on the skill of the painter, professional, or hobbyist amateur.

Last edited by TXFlyGuy; 01-12-2020 at 08:11 PM.
TXFlyGuy is offline  
post #7 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 10:48 AM
Member
 
Dennis Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXFlyGuy View Post
True. My paint crew has nice stuff. High tech, too. If you are good at spraying, this would be the ticket. That is, renting vs. buying.
They used a smaller tip than recommended. The manufacturer says .15 to .19, at 2000 psi.
We used .13, at 2500 psi. Not diluted.
Well, your project is kinda atypical here... most aren't doing as large a screen or using flat white, undiluted paint. Operating an airless is a little bit different than operating an HVLP, and the application method can change a lot as a result. Having used both, I much prefer an HVLP... but I'm a furniture finisher, not a house painter. Airless looks like it was probably the best choice for you, but I would caution anyone who is already questioning if they are capable of using an HVLP from trying one of those bigger machines. It takes practice and confidence, especially with a wand, and it is much easier to put out way more material, unevenly, if you aren't careful. But if you can hire the job out to pros who know what they are doing (although is that really DIY?) then why not take advantage of that.
Dennis Moore is offline  
post #8 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 11:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,649
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3953 Post(s)
Liked: 3128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Moore View Post
I mean, it's an airless... it's just a nice contractor's tool. The quality of the paint job doesn't really depend on how expensive the sprayer is.
Right, that's why I said most DIYers wouldn't exactly replicate the project, i.e. use a $4k sprayer. Of course the performance of the paint mixture itself would be of interest to many even if properly applied by a different method.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #9 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 01:16 PM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,715
Mentioned: 323 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4030 Post(s)
Liked: 1894
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXFlyGuy View Post
1. So in the end we chose the SW Duration Extra White, 2 gallons of Matte, and one gallon of Flat. In that 2 to 1 ratio. Strictly off-the-shelf, and very simple.

2. There is absolutely zero hot spotting! None at all! And the black level is about as good as it was with my Behr SS.

3. Doing this myself was not an option. Hiring a professional crew, with professional equipment, was my only choice. If you are good at paint rolling, or spraying, you could do this and save the money on labor. This paint can be rolled or sprayed.

4. This is a "one size fits all" paint. If you have a light controlled room, and want something simple, this is your solution. Off-the-shelf, no complicated mix, no fuss, readily available at your local Sherwin-Williams store. This works with 720P, 1080P, 4K. We even have an older JVC S-VHS player that looks pretty good on this screen!

5. We are very pleased with the results.
The hardware includes a new Epson 5050UB, Also, we are on the mid-power level, to extend the lamp life.

TXflyGuy ,

There is a lot you need to haul up on and accept as not being "exactly" as stated. The Bullets below address each numbered statement in sequence.

  • Having to purchase 3 Gallons of expensive SW Paint was excessive...both in amount and expense*. That cost alone is akin to what others spend for far more widely effective advanced paint solutions. Candidly...I could have sprayed that screen in under 3 Hours time...using 1.25 gallons of paint. I'm a'bettin you'd have saved some serious cash too!
  • The "No Hot Spotting" should be a given.....however any "almost as good as" comparison of the Blacks over your older PJ w/Behr wPearl SS is due to the 5050's performance...not the Paint. Let's just go on record here to say "Your Blacks could've /should've been substantially deeper.". The 5050 simply saved you from being disappointed. Best you accept that.
  • The first part...hiring out the Spray job...while it is Not DIY, isn't far removed from such. Many others on here have done likewise when they feared of their own ability. The 2nd part is essentially a truism, except if Spraying is to be considered.....for 99% of the DIY'ers considering such, substantial thinning and a different technique must both be observed.
  • "One Size Fits All" ? Hardly so.You even walked that back with you next sentence, "If you have a light controlled room". The majority do not, and a great many are actually looking for a decided improvement in Black Floor Levels and /or ALR capabilty.You would have been more correct in that assumption had you tinted the Paint to even a light neutral Grey. Without doing at least that, it simply isn't /cannot happen with the ascribed Mix...at best it can be considered to be a good Reference White for High Contrast PJs.
  • As stated above, the Epson 5050 itself, and especially when shooting at a lower Lamp Level...both are responsible for your being such a Happy Camper. Do not doubt that!
*a major reason you needed so much paint was the spray equipment itself demands such, because there is going to be a lot of wastage.


At this juncture, any more commentary would be "spittin' on your Ice Cream cone". Your fortunate to have a very working Screen that hasn't show any dismaying tendencies. You got there doing what you felt was best for you. Too often that doesn't work out that way...so you should be...and almost assuredly are thankful for that.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
MississippiMan is online now  
post #10 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Right, that's why I said most DIYers wouldn't exactly replicate the project, i.e. use a $4k sprayer. Of course the performance of the paint mixture itself would be of interest to many even if properly applied by a different method.

For sure. And my test boards, rolled with 1/4" nap, turned out very nice. I could have lived with that. But we all know that spraying is the most preferred method getting the best overall finish.

Anyone with basic rolling skills could be successful.
TXFlyGuy is offline  
post #11 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
TXflyGuy ,

There is a lot you need to haul up on and accept as not being "exactly" as stated. The Bullets below address each numbered statement in sequence.

  • Having to purchase 3 Gallons of expensive SW Paint was excessive...both in amount and expense*. That cost alone is akin to what others spend for far more widely effective advanced paint solutions. Candidly...I could have sprayed that screen in under 3 Hours time...using 1.25 gallons of paint. I'm a'bettin you'd have saved some serious cash too!
  • The "No Hot Spotting" should be a given.....however any "almost as good as" comparison of the Blacks over your older PJ w/Behr wPearl SS is due to the 5050's performance...not the Paint. Let's just go on record here to say "Your Blacks could've /should've been substantially deeper.". The 5050 simply saved you from being disappointed. Best you accept that.
  • The first part...hiring out the Spray job...while it is Not DIY, isn't far removed from such. Many others on here have done likewise when they feared of their own ability. The 2nd part is essentially a truism, except if Spraying is to be considered.....for 99% of the DIY'ers considering such, substantial thinning and a different technique must both be observed.
  • "One Size Fits All" ? Hardly so.You even walked that back with you next sentence, "If you have a light controlled room". The majority do not, and a great many are actually looking for a decided improvement in Black Floor Levels and /or ALR capabilty.You would have been more correct in that assumption had you tinted the Paint to even a light neutral Grey. Without doing at least that, it simply isn't /cannot happen with the ascribed Mix...at best it can be considered to be a good Reference White for High Contrast PJs.
  • As stated above, the Epson 5050 itself, and especially when shooting at a lower Lamp Level...both are responsible for your being such a Happy Camper. Do not doubt that!
*a major reason you needed so much paint was the spray equipment itself demands such, because there is going to be a lot of wastage.


At this juncture, any more commentary would be "spittin' on your Ice Cream cone". Your fortunate to have a very working Screen that hasn't show any dismaying tendencies. You got there doing what you felt was best for you. Too often that doesn't work out that way...so you should be...and almost assuredly are thankful for that.

1. My painter asked for 2 gallons. The 3rd was bought at my discretion to mix in the flat.

2. Hot-Spot tendencies were observed with almost every paint we tried, except the Glidden Premium Flat. Even the SW Extra White Matte has hot-spot potential. Thus the addition of 1/3 part flat.

3. The professional paint crew was brought in because we wanted the absolute best finish. Beyond my skill set using a roller, or even a sprayer.

4. Whoops! Forgot to add in...One size fits all for those seeking an Off-The-Shelf screen paint. In a light controlled room, or a dedicated theater. Trying to make your family room into a "part time" theater? Not with this paint!

5. Yes, the Epson 5050UB is a great projector.

There are two reasons my screen was a success.
1. Input from those on this forum.
2. My extensive trial & error test phase, with multiple errors!

Thanks to everyone here for their constructive input and help.

Happy Viewing!

Last edited by TXFlyGuy; 01-12-2020 at 03:10 PM.
TXFlyGuy is offline  
post #12 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Moore View Post
Well, your project is kinda atypical here... most aren't doing as large a screen or using flat white, undiluted paint.

I would think looking for a simple, off-the-shelf paint formula that is readily available, and easy to apply, would be typical of very many DIY'ers. Finding that was my basic goal. And it worked, with the SW Duration. This will work for a 92", 120", or any screen size that you want.

I'll wager there are more than just myself interested in this approach.
It is widely stated, that the best screen for a light controlled room is a white screen.
As everyone knows, if you have a room without controlled lighting, all bets are off.
For those who can control their lighting, this is a viable, simple, easy to apply (for those with a rolling or spraying skill set) paint.

Last edited by TXFlyGuy; 01-12-2020 at 04:40 PM.
TXFlyGuy is offline  
post #13 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 04:52 PM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,715
Mentioned: 323 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4030 Post(s)
Liked: 1894
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXFlyGuy View Post
What is atypical about looking for a simple, off-the-shelf paint formula? That was my basic goal. And it worked, with the SW Duration. This will work for a 92", 120", or any screen size that you want.
Not sure at all why you choose to take Dennis's comment out of context and focus only on the paint.

But addressing the Paint...he's absolutely right. Most either already know that White has LIMITED use....not universal, and if they come on not knowing, the abundance of Threads, Posts, and advice they get certainly...and quickly sets them straight. Your case IS atypical...but not just because of the Paint. Your Screen is larger than most....and you employed a Professional Painter who used a Commercial quality Airless Sprayer. Combined with the Paint choice, it's about as atypical an instance as it can be. Look over the last 15 years of threads...excepting those relative few who staunchly advocated Designer White Laminate, virtually everyone wanted applications that actually do what you stated, come close to being a "One Size Fits All" because of having excellent Dark Room performance as well as vastly outperforming a White surface in Ambient light...even high directed Light.

(OK..Spandex has made a big inroad as of the last 2 years as well...)


Really, if you actually had a real grasp on how advanced DIY Screen making has become, you'd realize how varied and adaptable it really is and that would temper your comments a bit..
You would also know out of hand that everything that's been done is pretty much "Old School" and not a revelation to anyone except someone with no experience. You don't fit the latter so much as you seem to have discarded some of the information and knowledge that went into you initial Screen project.



[QUOTE]I'll wager there are more than just myself interested in this approach. (Of course....but over the next year you could probably count them off using just your Fingers)
It is widely stated, that the best screen for a light controlled room is a white screen. (Well 1st off...widely stated is not a salute to being absolutely the case...which it isn't) As everyone knows, if you have a room without controlled lighting, all bets are off. (Again, your own lack of experience leads you to make assumptive statements. All bets are off suggests it's difficult to resolve the issue. It is not...in the least. Now that does apply to your White Screen though... .)
For those who can control their lighting, this is a viable, simple, easy to apply (for those with a rolling or spraying skill set) paint.[/QUOTE]
(Now that is a perfectly acceptable statement of fact.)

If you post up and make definitive statements, they had better be exactly that...and complete unassailable. Otherwise, you must expect so friendly feed back...if indeed not any real Push back.


Note:
I see you edited your initial statement out. My response addresses it however and it is a good point to make...so I'll leave it in here.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
MississippiMan is online now  
post #14 of 28 Old 01-12-2020, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
The Sherwin-Williams Extra White, in a 2/3's Matte, and 1/3 Flat worked perfectly for my application. The proof is in the pictures. It may or may not work for anyone else.

Most people who frequent this forum probably are more experienced, and know far more than I do about painting screens.

This was an experiment, in hopes of finding good results.

The results are in line with my expectations. And the experience was posted here in hopes that others may benefit.


I sincerely wish that everyone here will have as much fun, and as much success as I did in the quest for that "perfect screen".

Nothing more, nothing less.

Last edited by TXFlyGuy; 01-12-2020 at 06:48 PM.
TXFlyGuy is offline  
post #15 of 28 Old 01-13-2020, 08:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,649
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3953 Post(s)
Liked: 3128
@TXFlyGuy , matte white remains the predominant type in the screen industry and the performance of the proper white paint properly applied has measured favorably in independent testing to the best available white manufactured screens that can cost thousands of dollars. So obviously those reading this forum who are interested in saving money with a quality DIY matte white painted screen will appreciate you sharing your experience here. The fact that some might prefer other DIY screen types does nothing to diminish your contribution.
TXFlyGuy likes this.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #16 of 28 Old 01-13-2020, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
@TXFlyGuy , matte white remains the predominant type in the screen industry and the performance of the proper white paint properly applied has measured favorably in independent testing to the best available white manufactured screens that can cost thousands of dollars. So obviously those reading this forum who are interested in saving money with a quality DIY matte white painted screen will appreciate you sharing your experience here. The fact that some might prefer other DIY screen types does nothing to diminish your contribution.

If just one person on this forum can benefit from my trial and error experiments (lot's of error!), then my mission is successful.

I will admit that my previous screen actually looked good. Good enough that a very high end home theater installation store here in Dallas was shocked when they saw it.

But placing the plain white cardboard onto the gray screen was an eye opener. In 2006, and maybe still today, the gray-ish screen was the rage. Note the Stewart Grayhawk screen.

Of course, there are more high-tech cocktail paint mixes for those who desire to go down that path. Our goal was simplicity.

What helped our efforts is the current state-of-the-art in projectors, and black levels, and lumen output.

My solution will not work for everyone, but it will work for someone.

Happy Viewing!
TXFlyGuy is offline  
post #17 of 28 Old 01-13-2020, 10:17 AM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,715
Mentioned: 323 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4030 Post(s)
Liked: 1894
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXFlyGuy View Post
Spoiler!


Happy Viewing!

Now that was an appreciatively well composed response, one that no one could possibly dispute.


I'm happy for you...really. And let it be said that recently I have advised other Members with NX7s and NX9s that a Matte White with modest gain (1.1-1.2) was their best option...primarily and specifically because they wanted a Reference White DIY screen that would possibly help them maintain enough reflective output so as to not diminish their HDR performance. However corresponding factor that helped make that possible was that in both instances the Screen sizes were under 135" diagonal (130" & 128")
TXFlyGuy likes this.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
MississippiMan is online now  
post #18 of 28 Old 01-13-2020, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
I was not going to post any more photos, but decided to do one more round..."for the road", as my late Father would always say.

This particular Blu-ray video is rich in detail. But there are many dark scenes. So this makes for a good demo as to the overall level of image quality on this particular screen, paired with the Panasonic UB820, Epson 5050UB, and Yamaha CX-A5200.

But wait...there's more! These photos were taken in ambient light. Overhead can lights, sidewall sconce lights, and floor level lighting. Not brightly illuminated, but enough light to walk around and not stumble into something (or someone!). This would be typical for watching a video with friends over.

I will not comment on the PQ represented by these photos. That is for you to decide.

Thanks again to everyone here who commented along the way. It was with your help that we were able to have a happy ending!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050463.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	444.4 KB
ID:	2669352   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050464.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	509.0 KB
ID:	2669354   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050465.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	472.2 KB
ID:	2669356   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050466.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	569.3 KB
ID:	2669360   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050469.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	496.2 KB
ID:	2669362  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050472.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	728.6 KB
ID:	2669364   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050476.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	488.9 KB
ID:	2669366   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050479.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	497.2 KB
ID:	2669368   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050482.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	569.0 KB
ID:	2669370   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050484.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	448.7 KB
ID:	2669372  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050485.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	661.2 KB
ID:	2669374   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050486.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	578.4 KB
ID:	2669376   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050487.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	761.1 KB
ID:	2669378   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050480.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	465.6 KB
ID:	2669392   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050481.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	448.8 KB
ID:	2669394  

redpoint5 likes this.

Last edited by TXFlyGuy; 01-13-2020 at 11:36 AM.
TXFlyGuy is offline  
post #19 of 28 Old 01-14-2020, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
And these shots, with the lights up even brighter so you can see how this paint does with a fair amount of ambient lighting. These are taken at a great angle from the screen, with the camera up against the side wall.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050493.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	322.5 KB
ID:	2669872   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050494.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	418.6 KB
ID:	2669874   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050495.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	401.1 KB
ID:	2669876  
TXFlyGuy is offline  
post #20 of 28 Old 01-14-2020, 09:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,031
Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2229 Post(s)
Liked: 1146
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXFlyGuy View Post

But placing the plain white cardboard onto the gray screen was an eye opener. In 2006, and maybe still today, the gray-ish screen was the rage. Note the Stewart Grayhawk screen.
This revelation has been expressed 1000s of times in these forums and my contention is it is it is a dead wrong conclusion.

It is imposable to have a projector adjusted in brightness to properly illuminate a simple gray screen and a simple white screen at the same time. Then to compound the issue it is impossible to have your eyes adjust to the same two screens at the same time.

An equally false revelation can be shown when a projector is dialed in on a neutral gray screen and then a white sample is tested and the white sample becomes overblown with brightness and blacks become weak. Our eyes by nature protect us from high light levels and the iris will close down. Our eyes don’t protect us from darkness on the other hand. On coming headlights are the same brightness when they are turned on in daylight as at night. They don’t look bright at all during the day though and look blinding bright at night. What changed is our eyes.

I’m happy you are happy and I strongly support this idea of experimenting your way to a proper screen paint. I tried to convey a similar message many years ago and the concept fell on deaf ears. There are two functions to adjust the first is being gray scale and the second is sheen. You opted for no gray component that is fine and then you opted for slight sheen. Your paint squarely falls into what I called a simple screen paint formula.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #21 of 28 Old 01-14-2020, 10:05 AM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,715
Mentioned: 323 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4030 Post(s)
Liked: 1894
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
Let's be real......

Hey...sorry to disagree but the lighting your showing is certainly not in any way to be construed as being anything but a "extremely low decorative level".

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but such over stating of the room's lighting conditions doesn't help make it be anything else but extremely low lighting that is not even directly affecting the Screen. Add to that your statement that the lighting shown is "brighter than..." the first go round of shots and those first would have been taken in what amounts to be full darkness.

Bring those lights up enough that some real detail in the room's accouterments and the screen is going to look decidedly different.

It's a Matte White Screen....don't try to make it seem to be able to do something it cannot. That is not fair to those who might consider using your application and who might go forward thinking it will do something it cannot. It looks good enough doing what it does. That should be enough to be proud of.

As an example.......the collection of images below of Silver Fire screens all are in what is probably quadruple the amount of foot candles of lighting. Much of it with the lighting in much closer proximity of the Screen. There simply isn't any way to consider the imagery comparable to a Matte White application, and the only reason my shown images look as good as they do is because the screen surface is designed to do exactly what it's doing. In the dark, they all look like huge direct view monitors. (...the one with 'ol Brad is 225" !!!) That is why virtually everything I post as far as Screen shots show lighting conditions that are "extreme"....not 5% to 10% illuminated or simple Dark Room Eye Candy. Also be advised that none of the PJs in use are anywhere near a bright as the 5050 your employing. One showing the "Desert Boy" is a 2200 lumen LG, the rest are all 2000 lumen or slightly less. You might be slightly amazed to learn that the 225"er is getting hit by only 700 lumen from a older JVC, although admittedly, while it is actually the lightest color screen of them all, it is a "S-I-L-V-E-R" application with gain in excess of 2.0. (full disclosure is always best )



Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	7 DIY Screens.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	1,019.2 KB
ID:	2669894  

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings

Last edited by MississippiMan; 01-14-2020 at 10:11 AM.
MississippiMan is online now  
post #22 of 28 Old 01-14-2020, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Those are great shots, with the lights up. I don't know how you got your camera to do that...because I could not.
With the auto exposure / auto focus, the image did not turn out. You photo nerds can help me out here? The camera is a Lumix, with a Leica Lens.

But the first shot shows the room illumination, as it was when the screen shots were taken. The next two are the actual screen shots, with the house lights full up.

My screen is recessed, so there are shadow issues from the wall sconces being full bright.

No...this SW Duration might not be as good as some others. But I'll put it up against Stewart Studiotek 100/130, any day.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050505.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	600.2 KB
ID:	2669978   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050504.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	349.6 KB
ID:	2669980   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050503.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	374.1 KB
ID:	2669982  

Last edited by TXFlyGuy; 01-14-2020 at 02:00 PM.
TXFlyGuy is offline  
post #23 of 28 Old 01-14-2020, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Shootout? Well...not really. But these were taken with my iPhone 8. Hand held, so do not be harsh on the focus!

But these show the true capability of the Sherwin-Williams Duration Extra White Matte, with the house lights full up. No one (no one) would ever watch a movie with this bright light!

Note my forward wall sconces are very close to the screen, off to the side, and are very bright. With the screen being recessed, there are shadow issues at play.

But these photos pretty much speak for themselves, and this illustrates the fact that you can actually use this paint in a room with less than ideal lighting.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1B5D8443-E55E-4C93-B632-FBBC5509DE0B.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	946.0 KB
ID:	2669986   Click image for larger version

Name:	9CBD0DBE-A1DA-4B3B-B68D-E4DE78DD74A9.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	981.0 KB
ID:	2669988  
TXFlyGuy is offline  
post #24 of 28 Old 01-14-2020, 02:57 PM
Member
 
Dennis Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Man, it's fine. Your screen turned out well and you're pleased with it. So it's not made for having the lights on? Oh well.
Dennis Moore is offline  
post #25 of 28 Old 01-14-2020, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
TXFlyGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Moore View Post
Man, it's fine. Your screen turned out well and you're pleased with it. So it's not made for having the lights on? Oh well.
Post #23 . I'll let the pictures speak for themselves. Unedited. In full bright light.

Last edited by TXFlyGuy; 01-14-2020 at 03:13 PM.
TXFlyGuy is offline  
post #26 of 28 Old 01-14-2020, 04:49 PM
Member
 
Dennis Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Yeah... you can tell how much washes out because the sides of the screen are shadowed by the recess, like you said.

It's not designed for a lit room, but so what? It doesn't need to be. Just be happy with it for your setup.
Dennis Moore is offline  
post #27 of 28 Old 01-14-2020, 07:21 PM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,715
Mentioned: 323 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4030 Post(s)
Liked: 1894
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXFlyGuy View Post
Those are great shots, with the lights up. I don't know how you got your camera to do that...because I could not.
With the auto exposure / auto focus, the image did not turn out. You photo nerds can help me out here? The camera is a Lumix, with a Leica Lens.

But the first shot shows the room illumination, as it was when the screen shots were taken. The next two are the actual screen shots, with the house lights full up.

My screen is recessed, so there are shadow issues from the wall sconces being full bright.

No...this SW Duration might not be as good as some others. But I'll put it up against Stewart Studiotek 100/130, any day.

Awww....don't go there without measured proof. Your Screen is not a Reference White with 1.3 gain! A ST130 would trash your screen. Don't ruin things here.......


Taking images on All Auto is the best equalizer...but you still must take into consideration how the Camera...be it a newer Cell or a PAS Digital, will be using Spot Metering. It will seek out the brightest point and emphasize it. You must help by taking shots from a distance then zooming in by about 25% so that by stopping down the aperture you will bring the overly bright center down to a closer parity to the side lit areas.


All the images I posted in the collage came out of varying Panasonic Lumix PAS (2007-2012) Everything I have posted since since has come from a Galaxy Phone...currently a G7 Edge.

Including all of the shots below.









Mostly Dark Room eye candy....but not all.....! Chose better content too, Lots of Contrast between Light & Dark. That helps.



Most of all, the screen itself must truly have excellent uniformity to keep the Camera from blowing out the image. Uniformity meaning light is issuing equally in most all directions and from anywhere on the Screens surface area.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	AMagneto in Ambient.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	444.5 KB
ID:	2670130   Click image for larger version

Name:	5th Element Collage 7.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	748.6 KB
ID:	2670132  

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings

Last edited by MississippiMan; 01-14-2020 at 07:25 PM.
MississippiMan is online now  
post #28 of 28 Old 01-15-2020, 03:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,649
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3953 Post(s)
Liked: 3128
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXFlyGuy View Post
...These photos were taken in ambient light. Overhead can lights, sidewall sconce lights, and floor level lighting. Not brightly illuminated, but enough light to walk around and not stumble into something (or someone!). This would be typical for watching a video with friends over. ...
It doesn't really matter what your camera images show or fail to show, whether with dimmed or full room lighting. The only thing that really matters is what your eyes see when the room is illuminated for your typical video watching with just enough light to be able to walk around without running into things. If you are completely satisfied that you achieved what you set out to achieve then whatever anyone else says or does is irrelevant.

If you do want to see at least some slight improvement in screen image quality with lights on you might want to consider reducing the amount of ambient light hitting the screen. All you really need for people to be able to move about without bumping into things are the overhead can lights and floor level lighting, which would result in minimal light pollution reaching the screen. The sconces are the major source of screen light pollution because they have a direct line of sight to the screen, so having them on a separate circuit and turning them off while keeping the can and floor lighting on dim might be all the illumination you'd need.
Dave in Green is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Screen Section

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off