150" Screen Options - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 12 Old 01-13-2020, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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150" Screen Options

Admittedly I've accumulated my HT equipment together over the years without knowledge or a particular purpose. Now that I've got a space that begs to be a HT, I'm trying to make due with what I've got, and replace the things that won't work. My wife is already not happy with how much I've spent.

Here's what I've got so far:

Benq TK800
Yamaha RX-A2080
Polk Audio Monitor 70 front speakers
Polk Audio CS2 center
Polk Audio Monitor 30 rear
4x JBL SP8CII ATMOS
JBL SUB 550P
Nvidia Shield TV Pro

My challenge now is to decide on a screen that accommodates speakers. Optimal viewing guidelines suggest my screen should be about 2 feet from the floor, but that leaves about 2 feet of my speakers in the way. I could either raise the image height and project against the wall (I would fill/paint it), buy a $600 Silver Ticket 150" AT screen and mount it in front of the sidewalls (screen is 137" and width between side walls is 133"), or build my own AT screen. Floor to ceiling is 11' 10", and the sidewall depth is 2 feet. At 18 feet, the projector is about as far back as it can be mounted, so moving the screen closer shouldn't be a problem.

How would you proceed?






I'll get some blackout curtains for light control, so that shouldn't be a problem, but I would like to watch the Super Bowl and other viewing with some low ambient lighting on occasionally.

Projector: Benq TK800 - AVR: Yamaha RX-A2080 - Front Speakers: Polk Audio Monitor 70 - Center: Polk Audio CS2: Surround: Polk Audio Monitor 30 - Atmos: 4x JBL SP8CII (not yet installed) - Sub: JBL SUB 550P - Nvidia Shield TV Pro

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Last edited by redpoint5; 01-13-2020 at 06:30 PM.
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post #2 of 12 Old 01-13-2020, 10:25 PM
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Just move it up.
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post #3 of 12 Old 01-13-2020, 10:32 PM
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This application calls for elevated Speaker Cradles, a Spandex Screen "wall to wall" and Black a AT Black Spandex Base on simple frames.


I have something affordable and aesthetic in mind....something that address all your issues. It should be up in detail by tomorrow.
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post #4 of 12 Old 01-14-2020, 04:56 AM
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As Dennis said, just elevate the projected image a bit.

How much light control do you, or will you have? Looking for something inexpensive? Paint.

But just for grins, go out and get some white matte finish poster board. Then tape it up on your wall, and see what you get for a projected image. You might like it enough that you decide an inexpensive paint is the way to go. This would give you a good idea as to the light in your room, and how much it might degrade your image.

The nice thing with paint is if you are handy with a roller, you can do it yourself. For under $100. That should keep the wife happy! Happy wife, happy life.

See my thread on off the shelf paint here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...creen-ots.html

Yes, this room is light controlled. But you might be able to achieve similar results if you can darken your room. Note the final post, #18 , in the above thread on Sherwin-Williams Duration Extra White Matte. Those photos were taken with ambient lighting on in the room. Enough light to see to move around and not stumble into furniture.

Good luck!
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post #5 of 12 Old 01-14-2020, 09:32 AM
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@redpoint5

You cannot have a Acoustic Screen using paint. And frankly, raising the screen high enough to be above the Polks only addresses that specific issue, it does nothing to convey a neater, more design-oriented approach. Also, the image showing is in 2.39:1, whereas the Native resolution / Format for a 150" screen size within the Side Wall parameters speaks of 16:9...so that is what my drawing below is based on. Anther thing to consider, raising the 16:9 screen high enough to clear the Main speakers will also place the top of the image higher than you would really want it to be.

The application simply calls (ie: screams out) for a more cosmetic approach...if you are willing and able to do some very modest construction of the Frame and supportive framing.

In the detailed drawings below, you wind up with a well masked Screen area that will complement the screen's image and help convey the impression of having deeper contrast than the BenQ can deliver.

The use of Spandex for the Screen material is subjective...it's lower gain, while mitigated by the Q's higher Lumen output, the latter is almost countered by the size of the Screen itself. Even moving the Image forward "almost" 2' toward the front of the Opening (16'-7" Throw) leaves you with 16 foot lambert...and while that level is perfectly acceptable for Normal 4K,it's decidedly too low for effective HDR titles, so essentially you would / will have to turn the HDR feature off.

You could instead use another AT Material such as Center Stage XD so that the screen gain would rise up to 1.1 tops. That would provide 24 fl ....which is a LOT better but still may be lacking for some HDR titles. It's you screen size that is the over riding factor here.

One last thing....if you in fact want / need and significant degree of Ambient Light resistance, no Matte White application will ever suffice. Especially one sunk in between two light colored walls that essentially butt directly into each side of the Image. Even with a somewhat darker ALR oriented screen surface painted or hung on the Wall, those inside side wall absolutely would have to be painted out to a non-reflective state.

Your application, while relatively simple, is still not a "Knee Jeck" project. It takes at least a bit of comprehensive thought across several fronts in order for you to get the most performance oriented "Bang for your Buck" The latter is what I specialize in so I hope my suggestions find a willing ear.


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post #6 of 12 Old 01-14-2020, 06:28 PM
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Easiest would be to shrink the image, and keep it as low as possible (well, shooting for eyeballs at the lower 1/3 line, at least).

Otherwise, I like the @MississippiMan plan. I'd love to have a slightly recessed section of wall like that to lightly frame in for an acoustically transparent screen. There are no windows back there to worry about, just sweet, sweet wall. Just leave a slot for the vacuum bot to come in and out of!
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post #7 of 12 Old 01-15-2020, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
@redpoint5raising the screen high enough to be above the Polks only addresses that specific issue, it does nothing to convey a neater, more design-oriented approach.

The application simply calls (ie: screams out) for a more cosmetic approach...
Thank you for mentioning this. It's the reason why I'm trying to be more intentional now, because as the time and money spent on this increases, it becomes more important to me to optimize the results. Then there's the wife acceptance factor. She might not like the money and time I spend on this, but if it looks aesthetically pleasing to her, it goes a long way to acceptance.

Quote:
...leaves you with 16 foot lambert...and while that level is perfectly acceptable for Normal 4K,it's decidedly too low for effective HDR titles, so essentially you would / will have to turn the HDR feature off.
So I would get a better viewing experience in this scenario by turning HDR off rather than allow it to deliver whatever it can? That's a new concept to me.

Quote:
You could instead use another AT Material such as Center Stage XD so that the screen gain would rise up to 1.1 tops. That would provide 24 fl ....which is a LOT better but still may be lacking for some HDR titles. It's you screen size that is the over riding factor here.

One last thing....if you in fact want / need and significant degree of Ambient Light resistance, no Matte White application will ever suffice. Especially one sunk in between two light colored walls that essentially butt directly into each side of the Image. Even with a somewhat darker ALR oriented screen surface painted or hung on the Wall, those inside side wall absolutely would have to be painted out to a non-reflective state.
I haven't made my mind up yet insofar as how important PQ in an ambient light room is. There are a few instances like the Super Bowl where I plan to have some light in the room, but in all other viewing, it would be very minimal. My initial thought is to maximize the optimal conditions rather than mitigate against sub-optimal.

My original thought with the side walls was to have some sort of black/dark velvet curtain since I don't see my wife accepting black paint in the room. At some point, it will become a dual purpose room, and the aesthetic of those other purposes will be important to her.

Quote:
Your application, while relatively simple, is still not a "Knee Jeck" project. It takes at least a bit of comprehensive thought across several fronts in order for you to get the most performance oriented "Bang for your Buck" The latter is what I specialize in so I hope my suggestions find a willing ear.
I appreciate your considered and well articulated guidance here. Bang for your buck is what I'm all about.


I should also mention that the entertainment stand is going away. I've moved everything but the speakers into the "boiler room" which is the door on the left pictured next to the sink.

Projector: Benq TK800 - AVR: Yamaha RX-A2080 - Front Speakers: Polk Audio Monitor 70 - Center: Polk Audio CS2: Surround: Polk Audio Monitor 30 - Atmos: 4x JBL SP8CII (not yet installed) - Sub: JBL SUB 550P - Nvidia Shield TV Pro

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post #8 of 12 Old 01-15-2020, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Thank you for mentioning this. It's the reason why I'm trying to be more intentional now, because as the time and money spent on this increases, it becomes more important to me to optimize the results. Then there's the wife acceptance factor. She might not like the money and time I spend on this, but if it looks aesthetically pleasing to her, it goes a long way to acceptance.
Over the 40 years I've been doing A/V, that has always been an overriding consideration. Always. So far I haven't as of yet had any of the Ladies throw out my ideas...or me for that matter.

Quote:
So I would get a better viewing experience in this scenario by turning HDR off rather than allow it to deliver whatever it can? That's a new concept to me.
When one has enough brightness, and the Content has vibrant color, the advantage of having HDR is simply one of having the next "level-up" whenever possible. WHEN & IF it actually impoves PQ. However along with HDR can compatibility issues, and widely varying levels of performance...really a lot of "ifs" and "not as good as hoped for's" Sort'a like Atmos....everyone sees the potential...and most everyone wants it...but simply put, it just isn't a universally accepted application for every given instance. HDR titles are starting to get more consistent...and a few more affordable UHD-DVD Players are starting to incorporate Hardware and Firmware that is more applicable toward making the necessary adjustments. (LG UHD-Players are notable exceptions)



But there is still a long way to go...a substantial divide between consistent HDR performance criteria and real world applications. Hey...HDR is much better than when I first demo'd it at a Home Show in 2014-2015. Batman vs Superman, very darkly filmed & mixed in HDR, was often deplorable to look at, even with a JVC x790r in use on a 1.1 gain surface. Switching off HDR had people "oooh'ing and ahhh'ing. Here is a famous shot that looks bad in HDR but has noticeably better detail and highlights in SDR.






For those with ideal set-ups that employ PJs with sufficient Lumen output, and/or screens that have sufficent gain, and that have expensive UHD-Players and/or PC based Firmware / Software (Mad-VR) to augment Tone Mapping features, then yes, many of HDR's issues can be overcome. But the very real need for such periphery accouterments speaks volumes....HDR still isn't ready for mass acceptance within the Front Projection venue. It's getting closer.....but still remains at a distance...something best left for those with more stringent expectations and deeper wallets.


Until then, the hype over HDR will continue to push unwary NOOBs down into the Rabbit Hole of disappointing expectations.

......unless your watching on a Direct View Monitor...and then HDR is crazy overdone.

Quote:
I haven't made my mind up yet insofar as how important PQ in an ambient light room is. There are a few instances like the Super Bowl where I plan to have some light in the room, but in all other viewing, it would be very minimal. My initial thought is to maximize the optimal conditions rather than mitigate against sub-optimal.
Well a big difference will be had if you do not have to sink the image in between those tow Walls...of that for certain. But bear in mind that ALR done right also can help improve Dark Room viewing, as well as mitigate Room reflections if any re-do of Wall Ceiling surfaces are out of the question. People get fixated on to narrow a over-view, and often misled by assumptive reasoning. Hope floats if they at least explore their options and get correct advice.

Quote:
My original thought with the side walls was to have some sort of black/dark velvet curtain since I don't see my wife accepting black paint in the room. At some point, it will become a dual purpose room, and the aesthetic of those other purposes will be important to her.
The only reason you would have to "go there" would be because those Side walls were indeed a factor. A Painted Screen on the rear wall would demand such...but really...the sides being painted a very Dark Grey shouldn't / wouldn't make much of a visual impact being a severe right angles to the viewpoint of looking toward the screen. Black is not a absolute requirement....(I personally hate Black Paint ...) the Dark Grey below can suppress 90% of the light. However a smooth veneer of Black Velvet would take away about 98%+ so........





Quote:
I appreciate your considered and well articulated guidance here. Bang for your buck is what I'm all about.
....and it multiply's the "satisfaction index" exponentially!

Quote:
I should also mention that the entertainment stand is going away. I've moved everything but the speakers into the "boiler room" which is the door on the left pictured next to the sink.
..........yay.
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post #9 of 12 Old 01-15-2020, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Thank you for mentioning this. It's the reason why I'm trying to be more intentional now, because as the time and money spent on this increases, it becomes more important to me to optimize the results. Then there's the wife acceptance factor. She might not like the money and time I spend on this, but if it looks aesthetically pleasing to her, it goes a long way to acceptance.
A design like the one pictured above with an AT screen and top and bottom panels would have a very clean look. Hiding the speakers and associated wiring would probably make a great selling point for the project.
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post #10 of 12 Old 01-15-2020, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm thinking to buy some white craft paper ($25 for 48" x 100' roll) to mock up a screen before building one, and to get me through the Super Bowl. I don't want to rush this project, and I don't even think I could have a screen made in time anyhow.

@MississippiMan - I am leaning toward the suggestion to buy Center Stage XD material to increase gain, and it looks like that material would run me about $250. That seems pretty reasonable when before I was considering a $600-$700 premade screen that didn't quite fit the dimensions I'm working with.

My question is, could I not just attach the screen to the sidewalls rather than hang it with french cleats? It seems there are studs located at/near the end of those sidewalls. Another (probably terrible) thought I had was using some threaded rod to create a slightly adjustable frame. If I did that, it might be possible to expand the frame so that pressure alone secures it. I realize I'm probably reinventing the wheel with something like a triangle here.

I might not be envisioning the drop braces correctly. These would be attached to the ceiling joists and suspend the screen? Likewise, I'm unclear about how the cross member gets toed to the wall... I need to spend some time looking through others build photos.

Finally, would this screen be bezel-less (frameless)?

EDIT: looks like the Center Stage XD material cost is about $250, and Spandex is about $75. I'd be willing to spend the extra $125 if the extra brightness will really help. No idea how that impacts viewing with ambient light though.

EDIT2 I watched some Youtube videos and now understand that higher screen gain actually minimizes the impact of ambient light because it reduces off-angle brightness and increases on-angle brightness. That should mean off angle ambient light gets thrown back at the source rather than reflected to the viewer. I'm still thinking I can hand this screen from the sidewalls and leave the back cavity open, with the exception of my speakers living back there. I'd then have a curtain hang down from the ceiling to the screen height, and another curtain from the bottom of the screen to floor.

EDIT3 I bought a pocket jig in preparation for this build. My thinking is to start the framing soon since it'll need to be done regardless of what screen material I get. This way I might stand a chance of having it ready by Super Bowl.

Not mentioned yet in this thread is that I'm still running speaker wires \ coax \ etc and that process isn't easy since the main level is above this theater space, and there's no crawl space below.

EDIT4 Now I'm thinking Spandex might be a wise choice for my first build so that I'm not out a lot if I mess it up, and so I have something cheap as I train the kid not to mess with it. That said, Spandex World only has 60" width for the Milliskin Matte (White), and I need 74"+. They have 120" Wide Stretch poly spandex (White), but it has a very pronounced texture. Maybe that means I must go with the 3x more expensive Center Stage stuff. Perhaps it's not that much more expensive it I don't need to buy 2 layers of it like I would with Spandex (or would I?).

Projector: Benq TK800 - AVR: Yamaha RX-A2080 - Front Speakers: Polk Audio Monitor 70 - Center: Polk Audio CS2: Surround: Polk Audio Monitor 30 - Atmos: 4x JBL SP8CII (not yet installed) - Sub: JBL SUB 550P - Nvidia Shield TV Pro

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post #11 of 12 Old 01-15-2020, 07:23 PM
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I gotta defray from a response at the moment...but one is on the way soon.


Be prepared....steel yur wool....relax.

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post #12 of 12 Old 01-18-2020, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Bumping this thread as I'm preparing to make materials purchases. My dad is interested in helping me with this project, so that's where I'll find the time.

My latest thought was to engineer side rails so the screen could move up/down. Garage door rails perhaps? I've got that stuff laying around I bet. I'd position the screen higher initially so the baby doesn't destroy it, and lower when we can train her not to mess with it.

I'm leaning toward Center Stage XD so that I maximize performance for the amount of time I put into this, and so I don't second-guess my decision to go cheap. Would I need only 1 layer of material, with a black backing of some sort?

My question is, can the portion of the screen that is touching the wooden frame be used as part of the screen, or does that need to be blocked off with black velvet? I'm guessing it needs to be blocked off seeing how quarter round is used on the inside of these frames.




Projector: Benq TK800 - AVR: Yamaha RX-A2080 - Front Speakers: Polk Audio Monitor 70 - Center: Polk Audio CS2: Surround: Polk Audio Monitor 30 - Atmos: 4x JBL SP8CII (not yet installed) - Sub: JBL SUB 550P - Nvidia Shield TV Pro

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