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post #1 of 14 Old 02-12-2020, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Painted Screen in open concept basement bar/theater/gameroom

Hi,

Im starting a thread based on a recommendation i received about painted screen walls.

My basement is an open concept entertaining space... It's still under construction but wrapping up.
I will attach some drawings and pictures that show the space and proposed layout. Patio doors and windows are on the wall opposite the screen. Navy walls, ceiling and trim on the screen side, with the same (but a white ceiling) on the opposite side.

I just received my Epson 6050Ub and fired it up last night temporarily on my navy walls (Sherwin williams 6236 Grays Harbor). Honestly i was shocked how great the picture looked on the the wall with only the first coat of paint (not covering completely). I did notice a bit of a sparkle which i'm assuming is from the matte finish paint.

So now i sit, thinking about painting a ~120-135" screen. - after someone suggested Silver Fire. and you @MississippiMan

Looks like i will need to purchase, pearl and metallic and have something custom mixed. Love to hear advice and recommendations or a good thread to read about the process.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 14 Old 02-12-2020, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are a couple shots of the demo session last night
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post #3 of 14 Old 02-13-2020, 05:55 AM
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Here’s a link to a fellow Epson owner who is using the paint supplied by @MississippiMan .

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...iy-screen.html

As you will see the image produced is exceptional.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)
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post #4 of 14 Old 02-13-2020, 09:10 AM
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Are you interested in other painted screen options or would you prefer to stick to the SilverFire painted screen?

I and others can help either way, but MississippiMan will be on vacation for a while and will likely be difficult to get direct advice from for a week or two if you want him specifically.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #5 of 14 Old 02-13-2020, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Are you interested in other painted screen options or would you prefer to stick to the SilverFire painted screen?

I and others can help either way, but MississippiMan will be on vacation for a while and will likely be difficult to get direct advice from for a week or two if you want him specifically.
I am open to any and all options/ advice!

Are there options for painted screens that don't require spraying? Short nap roller maybe?

My basement project already has finished flooring, and the project is winding down.
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post #6 of 14 Old 02-13-2020, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
I am open to any and all options/ advice!

Are there options for painted screens that don't require spraying? Short nap roller maybe?

My basement project already has finished flooring, and the project is winding down.
After you have seen what a basic painted wall can achieve no doubt you are a lot more open minded. I have to say it wasn’t until I spoke to a mate who is big in the industry and by big I mean his company supplied expertise for the likes of the BBC, ITV etc among other things he said they only ever do painted screens now.

He like @MississippiMan suggested only doing spray rather than roller for the very same reasons of uniformity but I’m sure if you are careful you can get it right using a roller.

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post #7 of 14 Old 02-13-2020, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
I am open to any and all options/ advice!

Are there options for painted screens that don't require spraying? Short nap roller maybe?

My basement project already has finished flooring, and the project is winding down.
Yes, rolling is also an option...it just generally makes a somewhat less smooth screen/surface which means it's usually best for mixes that are less aggressive. The more aggressive mixes that are darker-colored or more gain-boosted (or both) will highlight small imperfections and bumps in the surface and paintjob, so these aggressive mixes are best left to super smooth surfaces and spraying.
Less aggressive mixes that are lower-gain or lighter-colored (or both) aren't quite as picky about the surface and paintjob. They'll still highlight flaws more than a plain flat-finish paint (kind of like what you're seeing now with the bit of grain or sparkle on your current paint) though, so you'll still want the wall/surface as smooth as possible and you'll still be rolling with more care than what's generally used for wall painting.

Spraying IS typically easier than getting a nicely smooth roller paintjob, so if the $40-$99 for an HVLP sprayer isn't an issue and you're okay putting a little plastic up a couple feet around the screen and on the floor under the screen, that's a more sure thing.
Though it sounds like the wall itself could use some extra smoothing first if it's looking a bit sparkly just with matte-finish paint.

Your screen-sizes up to 135" and that Epson 6050ub projector should be fine without a lot of gain. Even 1.0gain should be plenty for 30ftL HDR with around 1600lumen, so you're in great shape there. Your room's dark colors will also help really nicely for avoiding lights reflecting onto the screen (as well as helping the screen avoid reflecting its own light back onto itself)..so that's great too.

Would you prefer a brighter ~1.0gain screen that's also much lighter-grey compared to your dark/navy walls? This won't push the entire image (including its blacks) as far down as your wall has been, but the picture (including HDR) will be much brighter.
Or
Would you prefer something only a little ligher-colored than your walls, but a decent bit brighter (around 0.5-0.6gain)? This would give a noticeably brighter image than the wall though not as bright as a ~1.0gain screen, but it'll be more aggressive against lights/reflections and help keep your black-levels looking similar to how they are now on the plain dark-colored wall.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #8 of 14 Old 02-13-2020, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Yes, rolling is also an option...it just generally makes a somewhat less smooth screen/surface which means it's usually best for mixes that are less aggressive. The more aggressive mixes that are darker-colored or more gain-boosted (or both) will highlight small imperfections and bumps in the surface and paintjob, so these aggressive mixes are best left to super smooth surfaces and spraying.
Less aggressive mixes that are lower-gain or lighter-colored (or both) aren't quite as picky about the surface and paintjob. They'll still highlight flaws more than a plain flat-finish paint (kind of like what you're seeing now with the bit of grain or sparkle on your current paint) though, so you'll still want the wall/surface as smooth as possible and you'll still be rolling with more care than what's generally used for wall painting.

Spraying IS typically easier than getting a nicely smooth roller paintjob, so if the $40-$99 for an HVLP sprayer isn't an issue and you're okay putting a little plastic up a couple feet around the screen and on the floor under the screen, that's a more sure thing.
Though it sounds like the wall itself could use some extra smoothing first if it's looking a bit sparkly just with matte-finish paint.

Your screen-sizes up to 135" and that Epson 6050ub projector should be fine without a lot of gain. Even 1.0gain should be plenty for 30ftL HDR with around 1600lumen, so you're in great shape there. Your room's dark colors will also help really nicely for avoiding lights reflecting onto the screen (as well as helping the screen avoid reflecting its own light back onto itself)..so that's great too.

Would you prefer a brighter ~1.0gain screen that's also much lighter-grey compared to your dark/navy walls? This won't push the entire image (including its blacks) as far down as your wall has been, but the picture (including HDR) will be much brighter.
Or
Would you prefer something only a little ligher-colored than your walls, but a decent bit brighter (around 0.5-0.6gain)? This would give a noticeably brighter image than the wall though not as bright as a ~1.0gain screen, but it'll be more aggressive against lights/reflections and help keep your black-levels looking similar to how they are now on the plain dark-colored wall.
I'm not going to rule out HVLP. I actually have a couple guns that would work, its just a matter of controlling overspray. But i could as you mention build a little tent. I am a fairly adept painter (home constriction), I grew up building with my father before college and remodeled several of my first homes. Rolling leaves texture for sure, but this can be compensated with roller type, nap length and technique... So good to know that it is possible to consider it an option.

Im not ruling out a screen yet either. I need to get the basement wrapped up so i can hang my projector and play with some sample screens at different gain levels and such. Honestly i was thinking I would definitely want some type of ALR screen originally. But i underestimated how great the projector would look out of the box on just the bare wall.

Any guesses to what gain my navy might be?

I do really like the black level the navy wall gives. And the picture seems plenty bright. However i do need more demo time during the day when the light is spilling in through the doors and windows. (No direct sunlight can hit screen. ) I will use curtains if i must, but if i can make it pretty decent without for daytime basketball/ football viewing will probably choose not to. Most of my critical viewing for picture quality is at night. (movie nights).

I also need to think about whether i would want to frame a screen size on the wall vs painting the entire section. I really am not sure I'm willing to paint the whole section from an esthetic stand point. I do want the area to look nice when the projector is of.. In this case a fixed screen might be a positive.

Last edited by purduesd; 02-13-2020 at 12:13 PM.
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post #9 of 14 Old 02-13-2020, 01:33 PM
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That navy-ish paint should be around 0.10-0.15gain with a flat finish..it's listed at 0.12 I think. If the matte-finish is a touch more glossy/shiny, then that can add some peak-gain though I'm doubting it's much since matte-finish is usually pretty close to flat.

If you'd like something really simple but more neutral for projecting on that's very similar, the color "Grey Tabby" or "OONN 16/000" from brands like CIL, ColorPlace, Dulux, Glidden and PPG could be an option with flat or matte finish. That should look like a barely lighter shade than the navy while being a neutral grey that won't tint the projected image.

If you want to increase the dark-grey's brightness to around 0.5-0.6gain, you can mix together 15-16oz of the grey with 30-32oz of PPG's tintable silver metallic (about $22 from HomeDepot) and carefully roll that onto the smoothed wall..I also suggest rolling all the rows in the same direction rather than going up-down or back-and-forth because sometimes the metallic will lay a little different when rolled in different directions and if you miss some during a backroll it can cause some small areas of the screen to look a little different than others. Rolling all the metallic mix in the same direction all the time can help avoid that which can help the screen avoid at least this one thing that can make it look grainy or sparkly. Texture is still a problem though, both from the underlying surface and the paintjob, obviously.


If you tape off the area you're projecting onto so the painted screen is a perfect 16:9 rectangle that fits your image, you can also add a narrow black border around the painted screen area to make it look like a screen that fits really close to the wall..if that's the look you prefer (it IS the look I admittedly prefer). A couple common methods are either the flatter black velvet tape that can be applied directly to a wall, or getting a black velvet (or similar) material and wrapping some trim with it and attaching that to the wall around your screen for a more raised, classic look.


Of course a fixed-frame screen is also a perfectly fine option and they can even be painted as well if you decide you'd like it darker-colored more like your current paint..or you could simply start with a screen that's already darker-colored like a CineGrey3D or similar material as long as your throw-ratio is somewhat near 1.5:1 or farther back to help keep the ALR material's brightness looking more uniform across the entire screen.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #10 of 14 Old 02-14-2020, 01:14 AM
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You must decide...do you want "exceptional" or " this will do..."


The choice will determine my advice and suggestions

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
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post #11 of 14 Old 02-14-2020, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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You must decide...do you want "exceptional" or " this will do..."


The choice will determine my advice and suggestions
I guess that's the question i'm working through.

I'm thinking my best approach will be to try to get some screen samples and try to decide which gain i prefer and whether ALR is necessary. Is there any material i could tape to the wall that would be similar to one of your painted methods?
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post #12 of 14 Old 02-14-2020, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
I guess that's the question i'm working through.

I'm thinking my best approach will be to try to get some screen samples and try to decide which gain i prefer and whether ALR is necessary. Is there any material i could tape to the wall that would be similar to one of your painted methods?
I think with a 130” screen something along the lines of 1.0-1.2 gain would be more than enough. You have to option to set up the Epson with multiple HDR presets with or without the filter.

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post #13 of 14 Old 02-14-2020, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
I guess that's the question i'm working through.

I'm thinking my best approach will be to try to get some screen samples and try to decide which gain i prefer and whether ALR is necessary. Is there any material i could tape to the wall that would be similar to one of your painted methods?

If it isn't exactly the paint needed and suggested, it would not be a accurate comparison to make any effective judgement by.


Even with not taking me at my word, there are dozens of other Members whose own project results can give enough testimonyto provide justification to proceed with absolute certainty.
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post #14 of 14 Old 02-15-2020, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
I guess that's the question i'm working through.

I'm thinking my best approach will be to try to get some screen samples and try to decide which gain i prefer and whether ALR is necessary. Is there any material i could tape to the wall that would be similar to one of your painted methods?
Testing screen samples like this can still be a helpfull thing to see what you prefer in your room. Keep in mind that side-by-side testing will almost always make the brightest samples look better than any dimmer samples for most content..so seeing what you like both side-by-side and with a few different samples each alone can both give you valuable information.

The sample pack from carlofet includes several different materials for around $5-$10. Some of the most important to look at will be FlexiWhite (which can give you a good idea of whether a plain white screen will work well), FlexiGrey (which will show you a lower-gain light-grey screen) and Carls ALR (which is a dark-grey screen with boosted peak-gain up a little beyond 1.0gain peak).
For rough reference to mississippi's SilverFire paint, the ALR material is darker-colored with similar peak-gain while FlexiGrey is more similarly-colored but has lower peak-gain.

You can also use a mix of PPG untinted silver metallic and a small amount of lighter flat-grey paint to make your own painted screen that looks and performs like SilverFire, but it'll have to be sprayed to look like a sprayed SilverFire screen while rolling it will only look like a rolled SilverFire screen which isn't recommended.
A close match to the regular version of SilverFire with little/no additional colorant would be a mix of:
-30oz PPG tintable silver metallic (shaken at the store but left untinted...about $22 at HomeDepot)
-5oz flat interior paint tinted "Granite Grey" or "OONN 37/000"

or you can obviously use much smaller amounts for painting a smooth test panel:
-6oz PPG tintable silver metallic (shaken at the store but left untinted...about $22 at HomeDepot)
-1oz flat interior paint tinted "Granite Grey" or "OONN 37/000"

If you're aiming to match the even lighter-colored SilverFireNC mix you can use:
-4oz PPG tintable silver metallic (shaken at the store but left untinted...about $22 at HomeDepot)
-1oz flat interior paint tinted "Pebble Grey" or "Veil" or "OONN 53/000"
IF you're rolling SilverFire, then SilverFireNC is the more common recommendation, though it's still best to spray.


HomeDepot sells Glidden and/or PPG 8oz testers of Flat-finish paint for $3-$4 at the paint desk that you can have tinted to these colors (or practically any other color). This and a quart of the PPG tintable metallic can make testing different paint mixes pretty affordable if you'd like to see some mixes that the screen samples like the Carl'sPlace samples can't closely match.
I even have an organized little list to help show what amounts of metallic gives how much peak-gain and about how dark-colored the common neutral greys look compared to each other...so feel free to ask if that sounds like something you'd like to try.
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Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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