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post #1 of 25 Old 03-02-2020, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Diy full painted wall guidance.

Basement remodeling is coming along, I am at the drywall stage so still lots of time.

I want to spray ( silver fire )
150 " 16 / 9

Projector epson 5050/6050
Full light control room
Walls -celing - floors dark . Black cloth put in places that is needed.

- What version of silver fire should I use.
Is 1.3 gain ok for this project

- is black flame better ?

-should I do this on drywall, if so how do I prep the wall.

-is Carl flex wire screen a better place to start.
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post #2 of 25 Old 03-02-2020, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
Basement remodeling is coming along, I am at the drywall stage so still lots of time.

I want to spray ( silver fire )
150 " 16 / 9

Projector epson 5050/6050
Full light control room
Walls -celing - floors dark . Black cloth put in places that is needed.

- What version of silver fire should I use.
Is 1.3 gain ok for this project

In a Light Controlled Theater with non reflective Ceilings & Walls, the N/C (No Colorant) version that does reach 1.3 gain would be ideally suited, and would assure you of excellent HDR performance


Quote:
- is black flame better ?
Black Flame is the patented Commercial version that uses 7 proprietary ingredients not available for general purchase, and that are selected for their more precise adherence to the performance qualities needed for the application. This is especially true should the addition of Colorant be desired or required. However, Silver Fire has been formulated to come in a very close second, so for many, if ready local or Web availability of the needed components is possible, a fully DIY option is available.


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-should I do this on drywall, if so how do I prep the wall.

Drywall is an excellent surface when properly prepared, not so very much so if it is not. For a Full Wall approach, a determination should be made as to the maximum sized area of the Wall that will show imagery, and within that area, a specific effort should be made to obtain a extremely smooth and blemish free surface.


Typically, the use of maximum sized Drywall sheets (54" x 144") are best so as to minimize the number of Tape Joints. Joints are then floated fully 8'-10" from center so as to create a very wide band of compound that can be effectively "feather sanded" out at the edges to the point of disappearance. If Drywall adhesive is used, a minimal number of Screws can be used to secure the Drywall to the Studs. When the final sanding of all areas that receive Compound is done, it should be done using a Large (3"x 9"x 1") Fine Grit Sanding sponge and with very light, sweeping strokes so as to avoid imparting scratches that might transfer through the Primer & Finish Coats.


A "sprayed on" Bright White Primer should then be applied (2 coats minimally) and then also very lightly sanded with the aforementioned Large Fine Grit Sanding Sponge.


Quote:
-is Carl flex wire screen a better place to start.

Not for anything except for a specific sized / Format screen (CIH or CIW) and/or if the Wall itself is wholly unsuitable. I myself use a Wall whenever possible

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post #3 of 25 Old 03-02-2020, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I have hired mud and tapers to finish the space. 20 yrs in the trade.
3 coats

Should I ask them to so anything special with the wall..
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post #4 of 25 Old 03-02-2020, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
I have hired mud and tapers to finish the space. 20 yrs in the trade.
3 coats

Should I ask them to so anything special with the wall..

If they are truly capable Finishers, then applying a light skim coat of compound within your specific Image parameters can make certain that the wall texture between the Taped/Mud Joint areas that received Compound and the Paper-Only areas is identical . Often, there exists small dents or scratches on the paper itself that can get overlooked...and skimming absolutely takes care of that possibility. Tell them to treat the area as if it was receiving a High Gloss Pastel finish. They will understand then how important it is that a smooth, blemish free surface will be needed.


Oh...and should the framing of the wall be off enough that you can see any amount of Waviness or Lumps when viewing the Wall directly from the side, then that is when you might well consider a Flexi-Application. Let's hope that is not the case.

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post #5 of 25 Old 03-03-2020, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Hard time finding ppg diamond flat
And
Ruatoleum ultimate polyurethane matte finish ( water based )

I find sim products juat not sure I'd they will work
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post #6 of 25 Old 03-03-2020, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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32oz -- Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl
16oz -- Rustoleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver
24oz -- PPG Diamond Flat

32oz -- Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based)
20oz -- distilled water


Is this what I need for 150 "

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post #7 of 25 Old 03-03-2020, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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post #8 of 25 Old 03-03-2020, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
32oz -- Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl
16oz -- Rustoleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver
24oz -- PPG Diamond Flat

32oz -- Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based)
20oz -- distilled water

Is this what I need for 150 "
That should be enough if you don't waste any paint on too much practicing or any Re-Do's


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Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
Not when compared to this!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K26SJ5U/
.......along with this size Needle:
https://www.amazon.com/0-04-Brass-Ti.../dp/B004BG6DB4

The above is what I use,so for whatever that is worth............


It amounts to being the same price, but the performance is superior, and you get a dual purpase Rig with two different Nozzle / Needle sizes.

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post #9 of 25 Old 03-03-2020, 10:25 AM
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I'll add this though....the Wagner referenced would be the ONLY Wagner to consider is such HAD to be considered. ...because to work with a Water Based Acrylic Paint, such paint would need to be very much thinned with Water...which of course Silver Fire is.

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post #10 of 25 Old 03-04-2020, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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So I looked at the wall last night.

There is some wave in the wall. From the wood frame twisting from drying out.

Will this be something to worry about
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post #11 of 25 Old 03-04-2020, 07:22 AM
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It cannot ever be simple, can it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
So I looked at the wall last night.

There is some wave in the wall. From the wood frame twisting from drying out.

Will this be something to worry about

To tell just how bad, you need to find a absolutely straight 2x4x8' or 1x4x8' and place it on edge against the wall lengthwise. This will highlight the amount of rise or depression in the wall. Should any spot be more than 1/8" out / in, then you should abandon the idea of using the Wall unless you have a Finisher adept at doing Leveling. Such leveling takes several applications either to each side of a high point, or as fill for a low point.....or some of both. 1/8" or less? You can use it just fine and the only time such deformations will be apparent is when you sight down the Wall's image from directly to the side....ear against the Wall.



In correcting excessive deformations, you cannot apply too thick a coat at once lest you get cracking from shrinkage.....and that also means that each successive coat must me absolutely...completely dry before the next is applied.


Then, when priming / sealing is done, those coats must also be very light (Duster-like)...multiple in application...and each also allowed todry completely as well.


Sounds like a lot of work...and it is if a direct-on-the-Wall screen is desired that has no specific Format confines. Hopefully if such is needed it is needed in only one area. However if not...and if there is simply too many spots or too deep depressions or too prominant a rise, then it's best to go with a Framed approach.

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post #12 of 25 Old 03-04-2020, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I think I might be better off going carl's 170" flex white. 240$ CND FUNDS

Cutting it down to my 144 (2.35)

This way I don't have to pay extra to try and get this wall perfect.
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post #13 of 25 Old 03-04-2020, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
I think I might be better off going carl's 170" flex white. 240$ CND FUNDS

Cutting it down to my 144 (2.35)

This way I don't have to pay extra to try and get this wall perfect.
That may be best......I tend to mistrust depending upon Contractors. I cannot even begin to tell you how many times I have received assurances from Owners or Builders that their Drywall Hangers and Finishers were "The Best in the Business" only to arrive on-site to find a Wall that looked like a Ruffles Potato Chip or a literal Moonscape.

All modesty thrown aside over the years I have had to acquire Level 5 Drywall Finishing skills...necessary when one continually uses Wall surfaces for High Definition Screens that are more often than not also High Contrast in nature. Yet I am quick to realize where there is a point where the effort just isn't worth the time (...and the expense to a Client...) to turn a Sow's Ear into the proverbial Silk Purse.


You probably have chosen................wisely.


BTW...I'll post a frame diagram on this Thread shortly.

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post #14 of 25 Old 03-04-2020, 10:39 AM
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Here ya go.....

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	144 Inch 2.39 to1 1x4 - 1x3 Frame.jpg
Views:	166
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ID:	2693428  

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post #15 of 25 Old 03-04-2020, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Awesome thank you. Instead of wood. Have you ever tryed metal framing studs.

I ask. My environment with weather we get alot of humidity and dry water.
The wood frame will probably twist.

Earlex HV3500 Spray Station HVLP Sprayer and 1mm I can find and get.




Will this work.

Last edited by Schurter; 03-05-2020 at 03:42 AM.
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post #16 of 25 Old 03-04-2020, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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PPG Diamond Flat - dose it need to be this brand.

Or will any interior flat white work. I can't find ppg diamond in my area.

Last edited by Schurter; 03-05-2020 at 03:38 AM.
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post #17 of 25 Old 03-05-2020, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
PPG Diamond Flat - dose it need to be this brand.

Or will any interior flat white work. I can't find ppg diamond in my area.

Not just "any"....it needs to be a pure white "Acrylic"....basically any good quality "Primer/Paint" combination is what you want. as such paints are acrylic in composition.


But it still needs to be a Flat....or at most Matte.

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post #18 of 25 Old 03-05-2020, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
Awesome thank you. Instead of wood. Have you ever tryed metal framing studs.

I ask. My environment with weather we get alot of humidity and dry water.
The wood frame will probably twist.

If the Wood is straight to begin with, a Keg joined Frame with the structural design and support shown is not going to distort. But yes...I have used metal studs on screens up to 225" diagonal, but they were all "Solid Surface Material" types....not flexible fabrics that require attachment onto the frame with fasteners.



Quote:
Earlex HV3500 Spray Station HVLP Sprayer and 1mm I can find and get.


Will this work.

Get this Sprayer instead.......better and less expensive.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K26SJ5U/

This is still a compatible Needle:
https://www.amazon.com/0-04-Brass-Ti.../dp/B004BG6DB4

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post #19 of 25 Old 03-26-2020, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Are there any videos on how to spray a screen.

Can I spray reg water base paint white to practice on drywall. ?
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post #20 of 25 Old 03-26-2020, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Screen size 144 - 2.39
Carl's FlexiWhite I believe is large then what I am doing.

Just cut the extra off with knife or scissors.

Staple it to the wood frame.

What size staples
.
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post #21 of 25 Old 03-27-2020, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
Are there any videos on how to spray a screen.
Yes.... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvSoeOH0cod9j71AoUsRsPA


However after viewing, please address any questions "before" you start to squirt
.

Quote:
Can I spray reg water base paint white to practice on drywall. ?
Yes.......but it need to be thinned just as much as the actual Paint to go on in the same manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
Screen size 144 - 2.39
Carl's FlexiWhite I believe is large then what I am doing.
I think I know what your saying......yes, Flexi-White comes in various sizes...some large enougth to make screen beyond 200". But many of the intermediate sizes fall between normally used sizes, leaving quite a bit of excess to trim away.

Quote:
Just cut the extra off with knife or scissors.
Scissors are best to cut away large amounts of excess material prior to stapling, leaving about 4" or so for a handhold when pulling. After the material is stapled in it's final position one can use a very sharp Utility Knife to trim close to the staples. But not to too close.!!!!

Quote:
Staple it to the wood frame.
Seems the reasonable thing to do.

Quote:
What size staples
.
T50 1/4"

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post #22 of 25 Old 03-30-2020, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
Are there any videos on how to spray a screen.
Yes.... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvSoeOH0cod9j71AoUsRsPA


However after viewing, please address any questions "before" you start to squirt
.

Quote:
Can I spray reg water base paint white to practice on drywall. ?
Yes.......but it need to be thinned just as much as the actual Paint to go on in the same manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
Screen size 144 - 2.39
Carl's FlexiWhite I believe is large then what I am doing.
I think I know what your saying......yes, Flexi-White comes in various sizes...some large enougth to make screen beyond 200". But many of the intermediate sizes fall between normally used sizes, leaving quite a bit of excess to trim away.

Quote:
Just cut the extra off with knife or scissors.
Scissors are best to cut away large amounts of excess material prior to stapling, leaving about 4" or so for a handhold when pulling. After the material is stapled in it's final position one can use a very sharp Utility Knife to trim close to the staples. But not to too close.!!!!

Quote:
Staple it to the wood frame.
Seems the reasonable thing to do. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG][IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]

Quote:
What size staples
.
T50 1/4"
YouTube video not working
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post #23 of 25 Old 03-30-2020, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
YouTube video not working



Works when I click on the link in your quote.


Try these direct URLs



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Last edited by MississippiMan; 03-30-2020 at 08:20 PM.
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post #24 of 25 Old 03-31-2020, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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WOW!!!!
thank you
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post #25 of 25 Old 03-31-2020, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
WOW!!!!
thank you

Be advised that my experience with SF/BF and how much I dilute the Mixes I use (...and the Needle sizes employed...) allows me to move just a bit slower than I sternly suggest that others do. Some of the videos show me going perhaps 2' per second. Don't try to exactly emulate my pace.



3' per second assures one of having no excessive amount delivered onto the surface...and allows for a full 65-70% Row overlap. (ergo: no horizontal lines) If going faster means each coat goes up quicker...dries faster...yet requires an additional 1-2 coats, then doing so only is good insurance against tragedy.

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