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post #1 of 35 Old 04-13-2020, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I’ve read numerous LONG threads on triple black velvet, black paints and screen walls. I have a 13x16 dedicated room with screen wall on upstairs exterior wall with blacked out windows, I don’t want to loose any sf with a false wall, and can’t use in walls for front sound stage since it’s exterior.

Original plan was fabricmate track system on all 4 walls four acoustic properties/sound absorption but GOM reflects projector light. So I want to do the front wall in triple black velvet with speakers out front. Then Side walls either black paint with acoustic panels or fabricmate tracks. Ceiling also black either velvet or paint. I’m struggling with balance between acoustics or total black ( I did read velvet will absorb some highs). The screen and center channel will mount over the velvet panels built with furring strips, so I can upgrade to 4K screen later.

So it appears the options are:
1. Velvet is the lowest cost/high impact option but offers no acoustic improvement
2. fabric mate track system with linacoustic filler which does have acoustic properties but not as black and will reflect
3. a false wall with AT screen and fabric with equipment behind, but will reflect

Any other options I’m missing?
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post #2 of 35 Old 04-13-2020, 12:55 PM
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Would you really lose any sf if you built an AT screen wall just in front of your speakers? That space isn't really 'usable' for anything anyway. I guess it depends what kind of aesthetic you prefer with the speakers being in front of or behind the 'wall'.

Here is one thread where the guy had a similar room and basically just build a small structure to support the screen and then made panels to "cover" the rest of the screen wall. It turned out very nice:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...reen-help.html

Another way to do the same thing is the Minimalist Screen Wall/Goal Post design:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...reen-wall.html

The idea is the side and top and bottom panels are removable for when you need to access the area behind the screen/panels. You can use velcro or magnets to support the panels, but most people just have them friction-fit.

As far as fabric, many people are using spandex for AT fabric. Use matte black milliskin spandex like this https://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/796 although they are currently closed due to the virus. It's very cheap and has good AT properties. It is also used for projector screens, and you might as well update that while you're doing all of this! There are hundreds of threads in this forum about that if you are interested. Basically, is is the same spandex with a layer of white milliskin over the top.

As far as wall color goes, you don't have to go all black. Any darkish shade will work. And there's a crazy long thread on AVS somewhere talking about black reflecting as well and it was shocking how many different shades of "absolute" black there are. So I'd go with whatever makes you happy there. Some people like all black, but it's not necessary.
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post #3 of 35 Old 04-13-2020, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I’m 12’ back for a 100” screen, assuming I lose 1’ for an AT wall that puts my seating at 11’. Plus the L couch my wife HAD to have. Plus the right side wall just in front of the right front speaker will be a Built in niche for media rack. That will be another topic later (behind that wall is attic storage not temp controlled).

I haven’t looked at DIY screen or done any reading, maybe that’s why it was recommended I post here. The one in the link you sent looks great and if AT it WOULD be a great solution if I had more room. Will spandex work with a 4K image (also a later upgrade) would it improve contrast over my Elite screen? I’m not against building one to mount directly to wall if it will look better, but it would be edgeless against velvet panels.

So I think I’m stuck with velvet panels and the blackest least reflective paint for ceilings, then a dark red or brown side walls.
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post #4 of 35 Old 04-13-2020, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DedicatedHT View Post
I’m 12’ back for a 100” screen, assuming I lose 1’ for an AT wall that puts my seating at 11’. Plus the L couch my wife HAD to have. Plus the right side wall just in front of the right front speaker will be a Built in niche for media rack. That will be another topic later (behind that wall is attic storage not temp controlled).

With 4K and a ultra smooth surface such as Milliskin Spandex, sitting 132" back from a screen that is only 86" wide is way outside the suggested viewing distance with today's UHD Resolution. In fact, sitting as close as 108" (9') would be acceptable to most, if indeed not to those wholeheartedly against the "Big Picture".
(question: Why can't you place In-Wall Speakers in your Exterior Wall?)


Quote:
I haven’t looked at DIY screen or done any reading, maybe that’s why it was recommended I post here. The one in the link you sent looks great and if AT it WOULD be a great solution if I had more room. Will spandex work with a 4K image (also a later upgrade) would it improve contrast over my Elite screen? I’m not against building one to mount directly to wall if it will look better, but it would be edgeless against velvet panels.

The room below with a 120" White over Black Milliskin Spandex Screen was done with a combination of Black Spandex Panels at Right and Left of the Screen, and Black Velvet Panels above and Below the Screen









With some timely and complete help in the design, almost any situation can be accommodated.There is very little that has not achieved "Been There-Done That" status here on DIY Screens. We are / have always been the innovators on this Forum. Call our Bluff, will ya?


Quote:
So I think I’m stuck with velvet panels and the blackest least reflective paint for ceilings, then a dark red or brown side walls.

Black Ceiling ???? yuk....as seen above, an extremely dark Grey Ceiling mated with deeply saturated Matte Dark Red Walls would look terrific. Grey and Red are a decor oriented theme, and a Dark Neutral Grey will become pitch black in the dark,and suppress reflections as good as and in some cases better than a Matte Black.


Here is a excellent Dark Grey and Dark Red (...both Matte...). You can of course go darker on the Grey with a Custom Color. The Red is about as dark as you'd want.



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post #5 of 35 Old 04-14-2020, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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That room looks fantastic! But after reading all the velvet threads I’d be curious to see that room projector reflections on walls/ceiling with lights off. The velvet guys do the screen wall and first 5’ of walls/ceiling and it creates a black hole effect.

And that ceiling is black! Lol

I haven’t ripped open the exterior wall but my assumption is the pitch of the roof in attic above Plus windows makes it hard to run speaker wire where I need it.

I don’t have a 4K projector yet. I could move seating up..but that L couch and planned equipment niche.

I’m not opposed to increasing screen size but if I could do in wall front stage I’d want in wall surrounds and might as well add atmos in ceiling sp that’s all new speakers and receiver upgrade.

Crap you guys are getting me excited lol
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post #6 of 35 Old 04-14-2020, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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More room pics if it helps get a better idea of my thoughts/limitations
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post #7 of 35 Old 04-14-2020, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DedicatedHT View Post
That room looks fantastic! But after reading all the velvet threads I’d be curious to see that room projector reflections on walls/ceiling with lights off. The velvet guys do the screen wall and first 5’ of walls/ceiling and it creates a black hole effect.

And that ceiling is black! Lol

Yes...it is, and against my advice. It was a decision made after the fact, because the Member got too much feed back from the silly Threads about Black being Best, and chose to listen to those malcontents. (...at least he forced the Painters to Spray the Ceiling...not Roll...) Everything else in that room was my design. Screen Wall Construction...Spandex Screen....Black Spandex Wall Panels and Acoustic Panels...lighting (type & Position) Projector and Equipment choice.



God Bless 'em...that Member was about the most High Maintenance individual I have ever helped out of a couple 1000 or so....no initial Tools or DIY Skills, yet he got 95% of all you see done himself. Except the Painting.


[quote]I haven’t ripped open the exterior wall but my assumption is the pitch of the roof in attic above Plus windows makes it hard to run speaker wire where I need it.{/QUOTE]


I've worked with a slew of Rooms with that exact same layout....Slope on the Right....Exterior Wall at the End....Straight Wall on the Left. You have Attic Access above and the space beind the Right Knee Wall so that will make much possible, and almost all of it much easier.


If you build a shallow depth Screen Wall, the Right / Center / Left wiring can simply drop down out of the Ceiling in the few inches space between the Screen Wall Framing and the existing Exterior Wall. What lies behind the Left Side Wall? If you tell me Attic I'm a go crazy.....in a good way!


Quote:
I don’t have a 4K projector yet. I could move seating up..but that L couch and planned equipment niche.
Shame that. The Sectional ruins all vestige of that being a Dedicated Theater. People enter into the room between Theater Draperies, see a Big 'Ol Screen and a Room effectively Painted out correctly....and there in the middle, someone squeezed in a piece of Living Room Furniture. Perhaps after being taken continually to task by your local Peers: quote: "Why???!!!??? " you might decide to switch over to some affordable Chairs. Sell that Sectional on the Facebook Marketplace. (please)



Positioning of your Body to hear Sound Effects correctly is every bit as important as positioning all the Speakers correctly,and lining up individuals against a Side Wall is decidedly incorrect positioning.



Yadda-yadda-yadda. If the die is cast...and it is what it is...so be it. All I'll add is that the "Central Sweet Spot" will be highly coveted.


Quote:
I’m not opposed to increasing screen size but if I could do in wall front stage I’d want in wall surrounds and might as well add atmos in ceiling sp that’s all new speakers and receiver upgrade.
That is all possible...and more affordably done that you might think or realize it would be. Myself...I specialize in dealing with normal Mortals with restrained budgets...but who...everyone of 'em wants their room to be as special as they can make it....and keep marital harmony intact. I haven't lost a Husband a Wife yet..........



So again....Black & Red is nothing but...Black and Red. (...but yes, better than "all Black"...) No real decorator would ever espouse that combo. But Dark Red and very Dark Grey? Classy stuff. I've never met a Wife who didn't agree that if Dark Grey will work "as good as" the Husband's coveted Black that they didn't greatly prefer it over a Black. And lastly, the Super Saturated Matte / Flat Blacks out there are all way too expensive for the level of performance they are supposed to provide. They all should be (ie: absolutely NEED to be.) applied over a Grey Primer....and always sprayed onto prevent Roller Marks and uneven shading. And Black requires multiple coats too! Yet Roll Away many do...and they find that the Blacks all wind up looking more like a dusty dark Grey...and streaky...with a surface that does not suffer even being touched, let alone cleaned with anything outer than a Feather Duster.


Lights Off? Well much of the aforementioned nasties cannot be noticed. But when the lights are up even in a dimmed state, it'll all out there subject to exposure and condemnation.


Quote:
Crap you guys are getting me excited lol
That's something I enjoy. Not so much pointing out flaws in a existing design though....that must be done diplomatically. Kinda. Although sometimes I wish I had a Baseball Bat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DedicatedHT View Post
More room pics if it helps get a better idea of my thoughts/limitations

They did indeed, and if your game, we can get the project on it's way!


How about some precise measurements?



I have some good suggestions as far as the A/V Gear that are money savers that allow more to be spent of the needed room construction and accouterments.


Check your PMs for "real time" contact information if needed or desired.


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post #8 of 35 Old 04-14-2020, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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What exact measurement would help. I’m open to all ideas to optimize this space. My other perceived limitation is entering from the back limits a riser with 2nd row seating.

The good news is that we bought the sectional as brown but she sees gray. I may be able to use that. We also have the old theater seating we moved for kids Xbox in the game room, but the kids have ruined the cushions so if I could talk her into moving the sectional into game room/ selling old theater seats, I’d need new theater seats.

Behind left wall is the back staircase, no attic. Sorry to disappoint lol. I do have attic access above where I dropped speaker wire down that wall. More pics attached.

And those cheap entry curtains will be replaced with heavy velvet single panels I can close off from game room when watching a movie.
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post #9 of 35 Old 04-16-2020, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DedicatedHT View Post
What exact measurement would help. I’m open to all ideas to optimize this space. My other perceived limitation is entering from the back limits a riser with 2nd row seating.
Working on that..........keep the candle burning.



Quote:
The good news is that we bought the sectional as brown but she sees gray. I may be able to use that. We also have the old theater seating we moved for kids Xbox in the game room, but the kids have ruined the cushions so if I could talk her into moving the sectional into game room/ selling old theater seats, I’d need new theater seats.
Yay........Brown is a difficult color to use in a Theater. It doesn't match up well with most Theater Decor until it's very Dark, and if you get a Brown so dark it looks Black.... Black is Neutral...goes with everything.


Quote:
Behind left wall is the back staircase, no attic. Sorry to disappoint lol. I do have attic access above where I dropped speaker wire down that wall. More pics attached.
The common wall shared with the staircase and Theater is probably a non-insulated Interior Wall. Great for dropping Wires into.....also gonna be a great conductor of sound down the staircase and into the rooms below.


At this level of build, the most I would suggest is sheathing the Wall on the Theater side with 5/8" Drywall with Green Glue between the two layers,


...............or not. Other than Acoustic Wall Panels, the sound deadening aspect of that common wall is the only structural modification I'd consider.

Either way, I don't see any other concerted effort at really isolating the entire room's surfaces as being justified


Quote:
And those cheap entry curtains will be replaced with heavy velvet single panels I can close off from game room when watching a movie.
That sounds nice. Be sure to sew a distinct Boarder Edge on the Dark Curtains, lest people flail away trying to find their way through,


Dark Red or Dark Grey Curtains with a strip of Gold Edging. Classy!

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post #10 of 35 Old 05-03-2020, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey I’ve been thinking about the room, I appreciate the responses and didn’t want you to think I was MIA. I have analysis paralysis like I do with every other purchase I make.

Now I’m thinking if I’m going to do this I might as well sell the Mythos 7.1 and do all in wall/ceiling Atmos, that I can hide the front stage behind a (thin as possible) false screen wall. (Main concern not losing any of my 13x16 room)

Then if I do that I might as well do the bigger custom AT spandex CIH screen and wall panels. (Current 100” 16x9 but have room)

Then if I do that I might as well reposition my seating, speakers, and projector (old 8700ub) that is mounted all the way back at 15’).

Like another post I read, Original theater and equipment were built in another house 12 or so years ago. I can’t get out of my own head and get started!
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post #11 of 35 Old 05-09-2020, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
With 4K and a ultra smooth surface such as Milliskin Spandex, sitting 132" back from a screen that is only 86" wide is way outside the suggested viewing distance with today's UHD Resolution. In fact, sitting as close as 108" (9') would be acceptable to most, if indeed not to those wholeheartedly against the "Big Picture".
(question: Why can't you place In-Wall Speakers in your Exterior Wall?)





The room below with a 120" White over Black Milliskin Spandex Screen was done with a combination of Black Spandex Panels at Right and Left of the Screen, and Black Velvet Panels above and Below the Screen









With some timely and complete help in the design, almost any situation can be accommodated.There is very little that has not achieved "Been There-Done That" status here on DIY Screens. We are / have always been the innovators on this Forum. Call our Bluff, will ya?





Black Ceiling ???? yuk....as seen above, an extremely dark Grey Ceiling mated with deeply saturated Matte Dark Red Walls would look terrific. Grey and Red are a decor oriented theme, and a Dark Neutral Grey will become pitch black in the dark,and suppress reflections as good as and in some cases better than a Matte Black.


Here is a excellent Dark Grey and Dark Red (...both Matte...). You can of course go darker on the Grey with a Custom Color. The Red is about as dark as you'd want.



Thank you for posting my pics



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post #12 of 35 Old 05-09-2020, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DedicatedHT View Post
That room looks fantastic! But after reading all the velvet threads I’d be curious to see that room projector reflections on walls/ceiling with lights off. The velvet guys do the screen wall and first 5’ of walls/ceiling and it creates a black hole effect.

And that ceiling is black! Lol

I haven’t ripped open the exterior wall but my assumption is the pitch of the roof in attic above Plus windows makes it hard to run speaker wire where I need it.

I don’t have a 4K projector yet. I could move seating up..but that L couch and planned equipment niche.

I’m not opposed to increasing screen size but if I could do in wall front stage I’d want in wall surrounds and might as well add atmos in ceiling sp that’s all new speakers and receiver upgrade.

Crap you guys are getting me excited lol
That photo is my room. I also have a dedicated thread if you are so inclined to look into details. Please feel free to post questions. For wiring if you cannot access from top you could do so from the bottom by opening up holes in the ceiling drywall. Learn to either patch it later or use access panels for accessing again.

Regarding @MississippiMan comment on high maintenance it was expected due to

a) conflicting opinion on forums where majority was weighed towards using a black ceiling. I know I drove MM nuts because in many topics he would say one way of doing it (which by the way I should have just gone with since I chose him to help me and no one else has helped me as much as he has) but others in the forum would say something else and I ended up eventually confused but had to consider the opinions of so many others

b) I had absolutely no DIY skills when I started but built that up as I went along which has led to so many other successful projects that I completed since then. So this was a first

c) there were unique challenges I encountered as they demolished my existing basement that I had to handle that probably others did not have to. As an example when the contractors who finished my basement ripped out the tiles it created an uneven surface and I had to level it

d) I chose to do the screens by anchoring to the floor and walls in the traditional way that MM provided guidance (no regrets) instead of doing the easier Minimalist approach with the goal post design. This introduced some complications because although this design was more stable it was also more intricate and time consuming that the Minimalist approach (if you haven't checked it out you should read that thread)

e) the list of things I built myself was heavy DIY on a first project which included - projector mount, cross support for rear speaker, cross support for ceiling to mount the screen support, all speaker, HDMI and subwoofer wiring, electrical outlet install for a power surge approach, actual construction of screen and panels with tab mounting, floor levelling and patching, speaker stand construction, acoustic panel construction and theater signage. Several of these needed some detailed designs from MM and others like acoustic treatment I leveraged off youtube

I have posted videos below showing how it all came together and some behind the scenes look.

Overall I am very happy with the color choices including the black ceiling which I think was the right way to go. Regarding the comment on no professional decorator would recommend a black and red, it was infact a professional design consultant from Sherwin Williams who picked out the red theater and Black ceiling colors once I told her my preference of going for red and black. Did I guide here that way because of my natural preference for red and black and would she have picked gray if I told her I wanted gray? Maybe. But we will never know now will we? Would it have looked better? Not sure. You have seen the photos. In my opinion (and others who have seen it) my color choice looks great. I am very happy and don't see the reflections you are talking about when light is off. A few things I could have done differently in my construction are:

1. Smaller choice of speaker. The JBL studio 590 with the 580 is fantastic but took real difficulty in getting behind the acoustic panels. However for the price I got them (they were on 50 pct off and I squeezed another 10 pct off by negotiating with JBL) you can't beat the quality.

2. Sub choice. Klipsch feels underpowered compared to the more powerful JBLs. At the time I made the Klipsch decision I was almost at the end and wanted to get this over with and the other subs recommended in the forum were a bit more expensive. But now having owned it for some time I find they are underpowered compared to the monsters that the JBLs are. However we had to make a choice based on my room's unique dimensions which included the necessity to mount the subs behind the screen and went with this choice.

3. Probably not used black velvet on the top and bottom panels and had them friction fit instead of anchoring with screws. The reason is I am starting to see some wrinkles on the black velvet top and bottom panels but they are anchored so tightly and the space behind the screen is so constrained that I cannot imagine taking them out and rewrapping. You don't notice the wrinkles when you come into the room or sit and watch a movie but as someone who built it I can tell the difference. None of my spandex side panels have this issue.



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post #13 of 35 Old 05-16-2020, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Genaccmiller thank you for the build videos! That room is amazing and even more amazing is that was done yourself with minimal DIY skills. Great job! Gives hope to others like me.

I’d like to do a similar screen wall but don’t want to lose any room sf, so still considering in-wall/ceiling speaker upgrade so my false screen wall will only be thickness of furring strips.

I’m not against ripping out all Sheetrock and running wire/ insulating since my side walls will be covered in a fabric mate track system. I can have someone redo the knockdown texture on the ceiling. Which would also allow me to redo lighting and place atmos.

So much in my head I’m frozen and don’t know where to start
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post #14 of 35 Old 05-16-2020, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DedicatedHT View Post
Genaccmiller thank you for the build videos! That room is amazing and even more amazing is that was done yourself with minimal DIY skills. Great job! Gives hope to others like me.

I’d like to do a similar screen wall but don’t want to lose any room sf, so still considering in-wall/ceiling speaker upgrade so my false screen wall will only be thickness of furring strips.

I’m not against ripping out all Sheetrock and running wire/ insulating since my side walls will be covered in a fabric mate track system. I can have someone redo the knockdown texture on the ceiling. Which would also allow me to redo lighting and place atmos.

So much in my head I’m frozen and don’t know where to start

Start here............it's all Old News really....and nothing your considering is difficult or really that expensive. Build ideas...issue avoidance...A/V Equipment acquisition...it's all easily within your grasp.



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post #15 of 35 Old 05-16-2020, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Start here............it's all Old News really....and nothing your considering is difficult or really that expensive. Build ideas...issue avoidance...A/V Equipment acquisition...it's all easily within your grasp.



I'll be glad to help you out as much as you need, just as I did Gene......it's my mission.
I agree. Hey here's the good news. If I can do it, anyone else can. Feel free to post questions and we will pitch in to help. I can also add some pointers based on my experience.

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post #16 of 35 Old 06-02-2020, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Binny, MM and Gena for the help so far. All this analysis paralysis is driving me nuts so I’m just going to dive in and start with the screen (false) wall.

Here are my thoughts/questions in order of what I need to figure out:

1. Establish new screen size and main seating distance- At a 13x16 room. 2/3 would put seating at 10ish’. Was consider keeping seating at 12’ and going with 120” screen, or move seating to 10’ and keep the 100” size.
If I move seating to 10’, I MAY? have room for a second row riser I would have to walk around when entering from the back. If I keep at 12’ I can just flank 2 single chairs in front of the main row (Media room look) and maybe a bar with stools behind idk.

2. If I keep 100” screen, can I remove the old elite screen material, wrap aluminum frame with spandex, then friction fit matching spandex panels around it? Then I don’t have to build a goal post.

FYI- decided to keep the DefTech Mythos for now and focus on projector/receiver/maybe amp since I have decent audio, with the intent of being able to pull the panels and do in-walls in the future

3. Speaker position- when seating is established I may need move speakers. The arched entry opening in the back has my rear surrounds close to side walls and I cannot move them closer in, and will have same issue with in walls later. I can place them above the arch closer but will that interfere with future ceiling speakers? Thinking about this has been a big reason for my delay!

4. Projector position- 8700UB currently mounted all the way back at 15ish’. What is optimal for either 100” or 120” considering it will eventually be replaced with 4K?

First step of getting off my a$$ complete. Wasn’t there a show where they built an entire house based on viewers votes?
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post #17 of 35 Old 06-03-2020, 08:16 AM
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Sorry to say it, but 16' isn't going to accommodate a second Row w/Riser...and even with your only placing a 3 Seat front Row, it's highly doubtful you can place 2 Chairs on each side across a 13' wide space.

Analysis Paralysis is not mandatory if you but follow good advice and not second guess things.

Important points:
  • Absolutely...to make any viable plan work that involves what can be construed as being a "Upgrade", that Sectional has gotta go.
  • Virtually all Seating Groups placed on a Riser will require at minimum a Riser whose depth is no less than 78-80". That would leave you with only inches of room to sidle around the riser.
  • Moving into a smaller screen and going with whatever Theater Seating placed further forward to compensate can make a Bar w/Stools directly behind such seating entirely possible.
  • You did not relate which Mythos models you have (...on Wall or Super Towers...) so the drawing below can only approximate the False Wall design.
  • Once I have exacting measurements I will provide a Line Drawing of the False wall Framing and Screen Frame
Here is how I would suggest it be done iffin' I was the one hired to make it happen.





1 - 4 Seat Row of Seatcraft Sienna w/Grade 7000 Leather (Center Loveseat ) https://4seating.com/seatcraft-theater-seating/seatcraft-sienna-home-theater-seating.html

A 4 Seat Bar directly behind the 1st Row (no Riser needed)
A - 110" diagonal Screen area (96" x 54" ) That size is completely suitable for a viewing distance of 102", being just outside the 1:1 Screen Width to Viewing distance.


...............so let's make this happen!
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post #18 of 35 Old 06-03-2020, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Sorry to say it, but 16' isn't going to accommodate a second Row w/Riser...and even with your only placing a 3 Seat front Row, it's highly doubtful you can place 2 Chairs on each side across a 13' wide space.

Analysis Paralysis is not mandatory if you but follow good advice and not second guess things.

Important points:
  • Absolutely...to make any viable plan work that involves what can be construed as being a "Upgrade", that Sectional has gotta go.
  • Virtually all Seating Groups placed on a Riser will require at minimum a Riser whose depth is no less than 78-80". That would leave you with only inches of room to sidle around the riser.
  • Moving into a smaller screen and going with whatever Theater Seating placed further forward to compensate can make a Bar w/Stools directly behind such seating entirely possible.
  • You did not relate which Mythos models you have (...on Wall or Super Towers...) so the drawing below can only approximate the False Wall design.
  • Once I have exacting measurements I will provide a Line Drawing of the False wall Framing and Screen Frame
Here is how I would suggest it be done iffin' I was the one hired to make it happen.





1 - 4 Seat Row of Seatcraft Sienna w/Grade 7000 Leather (Center Loveseat ) https://4seating.com/seatcraft-theater-seating/seatcraft-sienna-home-theater-seating.html

A 4 Seat Bar directly behind the 1st Row (no Riser needed)
A - 110" diagonal Screen area (96" x 54" ) That size is completely suitable for a viewing distance of 102", being just outside the 1:1 Screen Width to Viewing distance.


...............so let's make this happen!
I agree. I would not go for two row seating in your instance.

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post #19 of 35 Old 06-03-2020, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow. Did you really just spend an hour of your time to draw up a diagram for an internet stranger? Amazing and appreciated.

Sorry the DefTech are as follows:
DefTech Mythos ST front
DefTech Mythos Ten center (1)
DefTech Mythos Two surrounds (4)
DefTech Sub

I should have clarified, since I will eventually be going in-wall/ceiling, I was thinking of putting the LCR in front of the screen wall for now. Hence the question about just wrapping existing aluminum Elite frame and friction fit AT panels around it the same thickness as screen. That will only take up 2ish” of space in the room instead of 1.5’ for a little more screen size and seating flexibility. I’d not I’d still the wall to be just the thickness of furring strip frame to take as little room space as possible.

TBH it looks like I can’t fit a large enough screen to hide fronts behind it anyway. Love those seats, it is mostly me and wifey with sometimes kids or fantasy football peeps so 8 is perfect.
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post #20 of 35 Old 06-03-2020, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by DedicatedHT View Post
Wow. Did you really just spend an hour of your time to draw up a diagram for an internet stranger? Amazing and appreciated.
That's what I do, and I enjoy doing such for fellow Members. I try to consider every member as a potential friend...and many times it can spell the difference between someone going down the right road coming out of the Gate. That save time...money...and increases the satisfaction index across the board.
Quote:
Sorry the DefTech are as follows:
DefTech Mythos ST front
DefTech Mythos Ten center (1) (..less than 5" deep so that works out extremely well....)
DefTech Mythos Two surrounds (4)
DefTech Sub

I should have clarified, since I will eventually be going in-wall/ceiling, I was thinking of putting the LCR in front of the screen wall for now. Hence the question about just wrapping existing aluminum Elite frame and friction fit AT panels around it the same thickness as screen. That will only take up 2ish” of space in the room instead of 1.5’ for a little more screen size and seating flexibility. I’d not I’d still the wall to be just the thickness of furring strip frame to take as little room space as possible.
Naw.....I'd suggest going ahead and constructing the wall with a 5" gap between the existing Wall and the rear of the Spandex on a Frame. Candidly speaking, you'll have to spend quite a bit to top the DT-10 with any In-Wall (...well, perhaps a grouping of KEF in-walls "would" be a worthy consideration...)

The biggest advantage you would garner with the 4" of space available is the ability to acoustically dampen the Screen wall behind the Panels. That is really something you should figure into the equation.


Quote:
TBH it looks like I can’t fit a large enough screen to hide fronts behind it anyway. Love those seats, it is mostly me and wifey with sometimes kids or fantasy football peeps so 8 is perfect.
Yep...I do love me a Seating / Bar combo when space is a consideration. I have a supplier that has some great Pneumatic Lift Bar Stools with Arm Rests (...very important!) that can roll in your door for only about $100.00 ea. I also know of a great discounted source for KEF In-Walls too. They would blend in well with the DT-Surrounds because they are extremely "Flat Frequency" speakers but they have substantially more "ooomph" and better dispersion characteristics than any DT-In-Walls you might otherwise consider.

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post #21 of 35 Old 06-03-2020, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Are you recommending keeping the the towers too and placing in front of the screen wall or behind? The ST’s are 10” but with the marble base 16”.

Correct the Ten is 5” and would fit, you know your speakers!

If I’m understanding you are saying keep the Mythos, LR in front of and C behind a false wall. The surrounds are also 5” and a big reason why I was considering in wall, entering from back I have to make sure no one bumps them when walking around seats. May consider KEF’s in future and want flexibility if I do decide to change later.
Pics attached
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post #22 of 35 Old 06-03-2020, 03:40 PM
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Once and done.................

Quote:
Originally Posted by DedicatedHT View Post
Are you recommending keeping the the towers too and placing in front of the screen wall or behind? The ST’s are 10” but with the marble base 16”.

Correct the Ten is 5” and would fit, you know your speakers!

If I’m understanding you are saying keep the Mythos, LR in front of and C behind a false wall. The surrounds are also 5” and a big reason why I was considering in wall, entering from back I have to make sure no one bumps them when walking around seats. May consider KEF’s in future and want flexibility if I do decide to change later.
Pics attached

The deep Base on the Towers would make them protrude into at least 18" into the room if the Base has to come up against the front edge of a complete Screen Wall. Yeah...only 5.5" more, but even that small amount will require significantly more "toe-in" since that would put their Face out just 7.8' from the front seating.


As I see things, the time to construct the complete Wall is at the very beginning. However depending upon the length of time you would have to keep the Right & Left Mythos.some accommodation could be made in the initial design to leave the corners open. But such would be a cryin' shame if you only need 5.5" depth for the Ten.



Nope...I'd close out those Towers and grab two of these guys.






They average about $600 ea. and are a open Market item now...but a willing KEF Dealer just might move them your direction for 1/2 that amount, which would make keeping those Mythos and compromising the Wall design just..........................well suck. Ya know...your already saving lots...so $600.00 to make things drop dead perfect? Priceless.



Hey! Dump the TEN and get 3! Then you could indeed reduce the Screen Wall's depth all the way down to just 3". OK....just sayin'.....
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post #23 of 35 Old 06-04-2020, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Aaahh.. I’m a little slow but I see..well my thought is it makes more sense to throw that willing dealer the receiver and projector business to get the video to 4K, then grab 7 of those KEFs, 4 ceiling and 2 sub when the money tree is back in harvest 😂

Sorry if I sound stubborn but I can live with the LCR out front if I can make the screen wall modular and replace the speakers later!

Having said that’s his should make you happy, I put the theater seats back. Money seat is destroyed from my 5th grader lol.I tried seating at 10.5 feet from current screen (knowing I’ll be losing a few inches for the wall) and it felt way too close. I’ve moved it back a foot so It’s now 11.5’. It’s amazing how a couple feet can change perspective. I can’t imagine larger than 100” at this distance. Sooo I’m back to my original thought of wrap this Elite Screen in Spandex, make Friction panels around that I can access for replacement speakers in the future (just need room for acoustic material if using KEF’s), Or your goal post idea 5” out.

Ready to order spandex trying to figure out how much I need
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post #24 of 35 Old 06-04-2020, 07:46 AM
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[quote=DedicatedHT;59754748]Aaahh.. I’m a little slow but I see..well my thought is it makes more sense to throw that willing dealer the receiver and projector business to get the video to 4K, then grab 7 of those KEFs, 4 ceiling and 2 sub when the money tree is back in harvest 😂

Sorry if I sound stubborn but I can live with the LCR out front if I can make the screen wall modular and replace the speakers later![/QUOTE\


Perfectly understandable. And you safe here in stating so, although if you were posting in the Dedicated Theater Forum and you said that about the Mains there would be blood on the Water!


However....what with the 5.5" required to make the Ten work, I can see no reason to not go forward and build the entire Screen Wall to spec.* The End Panels will be removable...and a little creating Pre-Wiring will have you all set for the eventual KEF Upgrade. *...as stated before, the 5.5" depth allows for the insertion of some Roxul Insulation on the Rear Wall.


Quote:
Having said that’s his should make you happy, I put the theater seats back. Money seat is destroyed from my 5th grader lol.I tried seating at 10.5 feet from current screen (knowing I’ll be losing a few inches for the wall) and it felt way too close. I’ve moved it back a foot so It’s now 11.5’. It’s amazing how a couple feet can change perspective. I can’t imagine larger than 100” at this distance. Sooo I’m back to my original thought of wrap this Elite Screen in Spandex, make Friction panels around that I can access for replacement speakers in the future (just need room for acoustic material if using KEF’s), Or your goal post idea 5” out.

Actually, the "Goal Post" method is not really suited to use if eventually the Sides will be set into place. That is a method that best serves those who have no intention of ever constructing a AT Wall that spans the width of the Room. Nor is using the Elite because it complicates the integration of the Screen into the surrounding framing. Done from scratch fom the get-go,it will all come together easier


Quote:
Ready to order spandex trying to figure out how much I need

With the dimensions I see happening I believe you will be able to use all Spandex World 58" wide Milliskin for this application...which is good because it's the best, most well vetted material...and it is the least expensive too!


The amountneeded of both the Black & White Spandex will be included in the Screen Wall / Screen framing diagram I will submit to you fairly soon.

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[quote=MississippiMan;59755180]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DedicatedHT View Post
Aaahh.. I’m a little slow but I see..well my thought is it makes more sense to throw that willing dealer the receiver and projector business to get the video to 4K, then grab 7 of those KEFs, 4 ceiling and 2 sub when the money tree is back in harvest 😂

Sorry if I sound stubborn but I can live with the LCR out front if I can make the screen wall modular and replace the speakers later![/QUOTE\


Perfectly understandable. And you safe here in stating so, although if you were posting in the Dedicated Theater Forum and you said that about the Mains there would be blood on the Water!


However....what with the 5.5" required to make the Ten work, I can see no reason to not go forward and build the entire Screen Wall to spec.* The End Panels will be removable...and a little creating Pre-Wiring will have you all set for the eventual KEF Upgrade. *...as stated before, the 5.5" depth allows for the insertion of some Roxul Insulation on the Rear Wall.





Actually, the "Goal Post" method is not really suited to use if eventually the Sides will be set into place. That is a method that best serves those who have no intention of ever constructing a AT Wall that spans the width of the Room. Nor is using the Elite because it complicates the integration of the Screen into the surrounding framing. Done from scratch fom the get-go,it will all come together easier





With the dimensions I see happening I believe you will be able to use all Spandex World 58" wide Milliskin for this application...which is good because it's the best, most well vetted material...and it is the least expensive too!


The amountneeded of both the Black & White Spandex will be included in the Screen Wall / Screen framing diagram I will submit to you fairly soon.
I am trying to understand this comment specifically. As you know i did not use the Minimalist method but there seems to be a lot of people that are using it in that thread. Any thoughts on what specific applications that method might be more suited to versus not?

Your comments
Actually, the "Goal Post" method is not really suited to use if eventually the Sides will be set into place. That is a method that best serves those who have no intention of ever constructing a AT Wall that spans the width of the Room. Nor is using the Elite because it complicates the integration of the Screen into the surrounding framing. Done from scratch fom the get-go,it will all come together easier

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post #26 of 35 Old 06-04-2020, 08:27 AM
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[quote=genaccmiller;59755196]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
I am trying to understand this comment specifically. As you know i did not use the Minimalist method but there seems to be a lot of people that are using it in that thread. Any thoughts on what specific applications that method might be more suited to versus not?



Quote:
Your comments
Actually, the "Goal Post" method is not really suited to use if eventually the Sides will be set into place. That is a method that best serves those who have no intention of ever constructing a AT Wall that spans the width of the Room. Nor is using the Elite because it complicates the integration of the Screen into the surrounding framing. Done from scratch fom the get-go,it will all come together easier

Besides the primary reason in highlighted Red text above.....involving not wanting to bridge two Walls permanently or semi-permanently....for some it just seems "easier". Also, you do not find anyone doing a "Minimalist" Wall Screen trying to hide much of anything other than the Center Channel and perhaps a centrally located Sub-Woofer.


The terminology "Minimalist" speaks to both lessor costs and complexity. It does not mean it is the absolute best way....just "another way to consider. And quite frankly, what with BIG being the author of such and therein it's staunchest advocate, that application gets a high degree of interest and considerations based that aspect alone.



Your situation called for a "Wall to Wall" application for framing considerations (...left side Closet "Bump Out" and Ceiling pitch...) as much as the desire to use / hide your JBL 590's


And in the end you knocked it out of the Park..............

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[quote=MississippiMan;59755406]
Quote:
Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post







Besides the primary reason in highlighted Red text above.....involving not wanting to bridge two Walls permanently or semi-permanently....for some it just seems "easier". Also, you do not find anyone doing a "Minimalist" Wall Screen trying to hide much of anything other than the Center Channel and perhaps a centrally located Sub-Woofer.


The terminology "Minimalist" speaks to both lessor costs and complexity. It does not mean it is the absolute best way....just "another way to consider. And quite frankly, what with BIG being the author of such and therein it's staunchest advocate, that application gets a high degree of interest and considerations based that aspect alone.



Your situation called for a "Wall to Wall" application for framing considerations (...left side Closet "Bump Out" and Ceiling pitch...) as much as the desire to use / hide your JBL 590's


And in the end you knocked it out of the Park..............
Yes agreed. Was just curious to find out. The only downside on my side is that with the size of speakers I have it is very difficult to access the back. I see a small number of wrinkles on the top and bottom on the triple black velvet. It will be a nightmare to get in and take those panels out.

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post #28 of 35 Old 06-04-2020, 08:59 AM
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[quote=genaccmiller;59755436]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Yes agreed. Was just curious to find out. The only downside on my side is that with the size of speakers I have it is very difficult to access the back. I see a small number of wrinkles on the top and bottom on the triple black velvet. It will be a nightmare to get in and take those panels out.

Send me close-up shots of those areas (email) and perhaps I can provide a solution.


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post #29 of 35 Old 06-04-2020, 11:18 AM
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[quote=MississippiMan;59755582]
Quote:
Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post


Send me close-up shots of those areas (email) and perhaps I can provide a solution.


Then.........sweet dreams.
Done. Sent you pics via email.

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post #30 of 35 Old 06-04-2020, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds good thanks for the help!

Last edited by DedicatedHT; 06-04-2020 at 06:32 PM.
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