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post #1 of 52 Old 06-01-2020, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Spandex screen visual quality?

As someone who has learned a lot from this forum over the last couple months, I am now setting my attention to screens. I want to go with an AT screen, and now I am just curious how the spandex screens I see here compare in terms of picture quality - to the screens I see elsewhere, such as others I am considering like the Silver Ticket woven acoustic material.

I have not seen a spandex screen, or any large theater screen for that matter, so I am wondering how the contrast and brightness would be with these different materials. Thanks for any input.
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post #2 of 52 Old 06-01-2020, 10:39 AM
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Spandex is the best visually (smoothest and smallest weave), has better contrast because of the dual layers of White overlaying Black...and it has much better Acoustic Transparency...among the very best anywhere.


.........and it cost less and comes with fewer size and format limitations. It does have a lower gain of 0.7 but these days that is less of an issue except when Screen get to be HUGE.



That's it....a pretty simple and straightforward choice.
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post #3 of 52 Old 06-01-2020, 10:46 AM
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First things first, does OP have total light control?

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post #4 of 52 Old 06-01-2020, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by thegeek View Post
First things first, does OP have total light control?



No Matte White AT material will suffice in anything less than total light control...and Spandex actually has a higher degree of ALR resistance than a Matte White AT Screen.due to it's Black underlayment.



There are only 2 ultra high end Mfg AT Screens in existence that feature a Grey surface, and both cost several $1000s


Carls Place sells a supposed "Nano Acoustic" Grey DIY material ("Nano" it ain't) for $80.00 yard, but it is nowhere near as AT as spandex, and the shade of Grey makes it come in under 0.8 gain.



Since the OP stated he wanted a comparison against a Silver Ticket AT screen, it's to be assumed that a $3600.00 screen isn't in the cards.

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post #5 of 52 Old 06-01-2020, 12:16 PM
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Not to hijack the thread, but is spandex significantly better then the Silver Ticket AT screen? I have a ST screen in a totally light controlled room, but have wondered if spandex would be a significant upgrade. Have you seen the ST in action to compare?

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post #6 of 52 Old 06-01-2020, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott V. View Post
As someone who has learned a lot from this forum over the last couple months, I am now setting my attention to screens. I want to go with an AT screen, and now I am just curious how the spandex screens I see here compare in terms of picture quality - to the screens I see elsewhere, such as others I am considering like the Silver Ticket woven acoustic material.



I have not seen a spandex screen, or any large theater screen for that matter, so I am wondering how the contrast and brightness would be with these different materials. Thanks for any input.
I love spandex. See image quality in a light controlled room.

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post #7 of 52 Old 06-01-2020, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
Not to hijack the thread, but is spandex significantly better then the Silver Ticket AT screen? I have a ST screen in a totally light controlled room, but have wondered if spandex would be a significant upgrade. Have you seen the ST in action to compare?
I haven't seen ST in action but see pics I posted for spandex.

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post #8 of 52 Old 06-02-2020, 01:19 AM
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I've seen both...many times with Spandex, at least 3x with the ST-AT. Admittedly never side-by-side in direct comparison, but memory serves me well enough to nake the following statements.

Visually, under close scrutiny, the Spandex wins easily as far as having no visible Weave pattern from 4'+ for most individuals...certainlt so fom 6' outward.. The ST-AT requires at least 2x that distance...well within the closest viewing distance most would sit to view a 96" wide screen. And as stated earlier, Spandex has better contrast than a Matte White AT Screen, as far as having the ability to render the Projected contrast of the Projector itself.

Acoustically there is no contest as the Spandex wins even easier....by a large margin numerically.
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post #9 of 52 Old 06-02-2020, 02:50 AM
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any link where to but the spandex materials?

thanks


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post #10 of 52 Old 06-02-2020, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by crazyhog View Post
any link where to but the spandex materials?

thanks


https://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/795
https://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/796
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post #11 of 52 Old 06-02-2020, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
I love spandex. See image quality in a light controlled room.

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Damn thats nice,,,,Makes me want to return the screen I just got and go spandex -it also give me AT ability.
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post #12 of 52 Old 06-02-2020, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
I've seen both...many times with Spandex, at least 3x with the ST-AT. Admittedly never side-by-side in direct comparison, but memory serves me well enough to nake the following statements.

Visually, under close scrutiny, the Spandex wins easily as far as having no visible Weave pattern from 4'+ for most individuals...certainlt so fom 6' outward.. The ST-AT requires at least 2x that distance...well within the closest viewing distance most would sit to view a 96" wide screen. And as stated earlier, Spandex has better contrast than a Matte White AT Screen, as far as having the ability to render the Projected contrast of the Projector itself.

Acoustically there is no contest as the Spandex wins even easier....by a large margin numerically.



Thank you for your input MM. You may have just added something to my "to do" list. I did see at least one thread where someone put spandex in a ST frame and it seemed to work OK.


I've got a few more projects ahead of it though, as I have to finish the dual driver VBSS sub I am working on now, build my DIY acoustic panels, and install black velvet four feet back from my screen on the ceiling and side walls.

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Originally Posted by Remy.Alexander View Post
Damn thats nice,,,,Makes me want to return the screen I just got and go spandex -it also give me AT ability.
You have nothing to lose. It's cheap. If you don't like it you can throw it away.

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post #14 of 52 Old 06-02-2020, 01:41 PM
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@MississippiMan You may have suckered me in. I was going to order spandex for some DIY acoustic panels and relized that for my screen, I only need 8 yards of Spandex (4 white, 4 black) which is $72. Does that sound right for a 142" 2:35:1 screen? The "screen" dimensions are 131"x56" and the outside of the frame is 136"x60". 4 Yards should give me 144"x60", correct - is that cutting it too close on height?



I have seen a thread where someone replaced a non AT Silver Ticket screen with spandex and re-used the frame using .230 screen spline, so I was going to try that.

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post #15 of 52 Old 06-02-2020, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
@MississippiMan You may have suckered me in.
One caught every minute..................





Quote:
I was going to order spandex for some DIY acoustic panels and relied that for my screen, I only need 8 yards of Spandex (4 white, 4 black) which is $72. Does that sound right for a 142" 2:35:1 screen? The "screen" dimensions are 131"x56" and the outside of the frame is 136"x60". 4 Yards should give me 144"x60", correct - is that cutting it too close on height?


Yep....and Nope, in that order.



Quote:
I have seen a thread where someone replaced a non AT Silver Ticket screen with spandex and re-used the frame using .230 screen spline, so I was going to try that.

It certainly can be done....would I do so? No, unless I already possessed the Frame and was willing to wrap over the Frame completely. However being able to choose your excact size and format, and effect easy attachment via Staples makes going the totally DIY route very attractive....and easier / less expensive as well.




What's that "suckering" noise I'm hearing?
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post #16 of 52 Old 06-02-2020, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
It certainly can be done....would I do so? No, unless I already possessed the Frame and was willing to wrap over the Frame completely. However being able to choose your excact size and format, and effect easy attachment via Staples makes going the totally DIY route very attractive....and easier / less expensive as well.

I already have (and am using) the ST screen. If I was doing it all over from scratch, I'd just build the frame out of poplar.

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I tried spandex because of MM and have not looked back.

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post #18 of 52 Old 06-02-2020, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I tried spandex because of MM and have not looked back.


Damn - thats impressive. Why doesn't everyone build their own screens out of this material then?

I assume people use white? Or maybe another silvery or gray color in front of the black layer?
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post #19 of 52 Old 06-02-2020, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott V. View Post
Damn - thats impressive. Why doesn't everyone build their own screens out of this material then?



I assume people use white? Or maybe another silvery or gray color in front of the black layer?
I used white in front of black. Check out my video below.



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I already have (and am using) the ST screen. If I was doing it all over from scratch, I'd just build the frame out of poplar.

I have a 120" fixed frame, wondering if can do the same also. Maybe screw 1x1 or 1x2 to the back- get Spandex and use current frame. Only reason i didn't build one is getting straight lumber here is a nightmare and poplar is pricey as hell.
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post #21 of 52 Old 06-03-2020, 05:31 AM
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The person that did this before used a channel in the back of the Silver Ticket frame and used .23 Screen Retainer Spline to hold the spandex in place. They were going from a non AT screen, but the AT screen's frame should be no different.


Here is the thread:


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...d-spandex.html

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post #22 of 52 Old 06-03-2020, 06:28 AM
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Those work for smaller screens but there still hasn't been a definitive source for larger screens. Because I am going with 165" diag screen those are too small forcing me to look at Carl's and I really don't want to.
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post #23 of 52 Old 06-03-2020, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Those work for smaller screens but there still hasn't been a definitive source for larger screens. Because I am going with 165" diag screen those are too small forcing me to look at Carl's and I really don't want to.
You mean because these rolls of spandex are only 60"? I assume for your screen you would need something larger -
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post #24 of 52 Old 06-03-2020, 07:30 AM
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You mean because these rolls of spandex are only 60"? I assume for your screen you would need something larger -
Yes. I've seen 120" rolls of spandex but they are not Milliskin or have been tested for home theater use. My screen will be over 7 feet tall and that is too much stretch for the 58" stuff.
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post #25 of 52 Old 06-03-2020, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by wookiegr View Post
Yes. I've seen 120" rolls of spandex but they are not Milliskin or have been tested for home theater use. My screen will be over 7 feet tall and that is too much stretch for the 58" stuff.

Either Spandex World or Rose Brand material is still substantially better AT material and smoother in nature than virtually any Mfg AT material. And all that even with the second layer of Black behind it.

The Milliskin Black can be overstretched....that actually makes it even more AT....and enough Forum end users have used the 120" Spandex with excellent results that you should not be hesitant to give it a chance.
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No Matte White AT material will suffice in anything less than total light control...and Spandex actually has a higher degree of ALR resistance than a Matte White AT Screen.due to it's Black underlayment.



There are only 2 ultra high end Mfg AT Screens in existence that feature a Grey surface, and both cost several $1000s


Carls Place sells a supposed "Nano Acoustic" Grey DIY material ("Nano" it ain't) for $80.00 yard, but it is nowhere near as AT as spandex, and the shade of Grey makes it come in under 0.8 gain.



Since the OP stated he wanted a comparison against a Silver Ticket AT screen, it's to be assumed that a $3600.00 screen isn't in the cards.
Severtson sells their 4k woven material of 138" 16:9 for under $1,000 ($384.95 for the same size by Carl's NA Grey) with backing material. It comes in two varieties: white at 1.18 gain and titanium ("ALR") at 0.93 gain with options of pockets or grommets for mounting. So that comes out to ~$300 per yard. Carl's only comes with grommets, and is $384.95. Which is slightly more at 2.58 times delta price difference.

You also have to consider Carl's doesn't come with a backing layer.

All in all, TAT-4k is a really good deal for a *DIY material only option considering the quality of the material which hands down beats sheerweave, and isn't microperf like NA Grey. It's still a bit expensive, but has an organic quality to it that I personally like way better than any other screen out there.

My only complaint is you can build a DIY screen of the same type grey and gain of a solid screen for more than 60% less, and even include a Whaley's Devore velvet trim border. So while TAT-4k is awesome, it's not over 60% awesome. Now if I didn't care about price, TAT-4k would be a no brainer.

Point being, Severtson's material alone isn't as out of reach as thousands of dollars, only under $1,000. Meaning you could make a 135" screen for ~$1,222.84. A 135" AT Silverticket would be $519.98, a delta of 1.74 times over SAT-4k. Which isn't too shabby.

*You guys on the DIY forum have a strange DIY philosophy. Elite and Severtson both sell material only, but doing so isn't considered "DIY," even if you make your own frame and border. But Carl's sells material only too, but is DIY.
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post #27 of 52 Old 06-08-2020, 06:25 AM
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I consider screen material (like SeymourAV) and building your own frame to be DIY.
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post #28 of 52 Old 06-08-2020, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Debonaire View Post
Severtson sells their 4k woven material of 138" 16:9 for under $1,000 ($384.95 for the same size by Carl's NA Grey) with backing material. It comes in two varieties: white at 1.18 gain and titanium ("ALR") at 0.93 gain with options of pockets or grommets for mounting. So that comes out to ~$300 per yard. Carl's only comes with grommets, and is $384.95. Which is slightly more at 2.58 times delta price difference.



You also have to consider Carl's doesn't come with a backing layer.



All in all, TAT-4k is a really good deal for a *DIY material only option considering the quality of the material which hands down beats sheerweave, and isn't microperf like NA Grey. It's still a bit expensive, but has an organic quality to it that I personally like way better than any other screen out there.



My only complaint is you can build a DIY screen of the same type grey and gain of a solid screen for more than 60% less, and even include a Whaley's Devore velvet trim border. So while TAT-4k is awesome, it's not over 60% awesome. Now if I didn't care about price, TAT-4k would be a no brainer.



Point being, Severtson's material alone isn't as out of reach as thousands of dollars, only under $1,000. Meaning you could make a 135" screen for ~$1,222.84. A 135" AT Silverticket would be $519.98, a delta of 1.74 times over SAT-4k. Which isn't too shabby.



*You guys on the DIY forum have a strange DIY philosophy. Elite and Severtson both sell material only, but doing so isn't considered "DIY," even if you make your own frame and border. But Carl's sells material only too, but is DIY.

You obviously cannot manufacture the canvas. In my mind anything you do where you build the frame and mount the screen is DIY.

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post #29 of 52 Old 06-08-2020, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debonaire View Post
*You guys on the DIY forum have a strange DIY philosophy. Elite and Severtson both sell material only, but doing so isn't considered "DIY," even if you make your own frame and border. But Carl's sells material only too, but is DIY.

Obviously your reading of the Posts on this Forum is limited.


Yes...there was a time when many of us did in fact actively discourage the use of ANY Mfg Screen material....including Carl's stuff. It truth, it was the need to accept two things that led to a change....not a quantum leap, but something a bit less restrictive.


1st...many did come to this Forum requesting advice and help in building Frames for the Mfg Cloths...and it would have been somewhat myopic to not offer up such assistance. So once we did...the Buggers were let out of Pandora's Box. Even with that, it was no real effort to combat the use of expensive opaque Screen materials over Solids and Fabrics, especially when they were receiving Painted coatings that could easily outpace the performance-to-cost values of Mfg offerings, and THAT is what true DIY'ism is all based upon.



2nd...the use of Spandex as a true DIY Screen option predated the current rush to embrace it for AT applications by 10 years!!! . However once AT applications did become more popular, Spandex once again showed it's mettle. But these days it's use is now far more geared to AT applications instead of just being a Screen Surface substitute that is easily and affordably used.


So we do in fact embrace those who come aboard DIY Screens if at least some degree of the project incorporates actual self-constructed aspects such as a Frame or a Screen Wall. In fact many who are building complete Home Theaters and who are considering a DIY Screen option wind up sticking around to get extensive build advice on all the aspects of a Theater build...especially since the Image equation is so central to the overall design.


But....................in the end, unless such is absolutely necessary, we / I will always try to steer a person away for using expensive Mfg Screen materials...be it AT or otherwise, because frankly...and bluntly stated, going the dedicated DIY route injects a tremendous amount more satisfaction into the end results. Anybody with cash can buy themselves into contention, but those who aspire to something exceptional that comes from their own efforts and enthusiasm, yet is much less expensive to do always have more "Suspender Poppin' Rights"....and for many that constitutes a lot of the Pride and Fun of ownership.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
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post #30 of 52 Old 06-08-2020, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Obviously your reading of the Posts on this Forum is limited.


Yes...there was a time when many of us did in fact actively discourage the use of ANY Mfg Screen material
Then I apologize about that. I've read way back actually. Before joining, I researched Screen Goo, which doesn't exist. But there was much hype. That paint has its own thread on the mfg section, even though you need to spray it yourself. I see Carl's talked about here, and thought maybe they got a pass. Good to know the DIY isn't so strict anymore.

This was about 11 years ago when I first got my Dwin crt. Glidden 450 was recommended back then as the ultimate crt white paint, along with Rosco Fluorescent White as a ST130 alternative. I chose the Glidden 450 and couldn't have been happier.

Right now I'm trying to find a good price on a sub $1,000 used Sim2 0.95" single chip DLP like a HT3000e(I saw an old ad for one on Audiogon for $1,200 and I'm really bummed it's now sold! Had only like 200 hours too! ) or D80e. Then I'll probably go Rosco this time. Although I'm really tempted to try a Silver HG using Benjamin Moore Glaze since Behr Faux Glaze isn't made anymore.

Even MFG AT would max me out at 103" (way too small! CRT was on a 126" 16:9) 16:9 for 12 ftl, so AT is out the window for a pj I want to get.

But reading the old thread on Silver HG gives me pause, since Two people tried 2+ times and gave up, and there was another guy who had to do 2 times before success. Rosco might be the better choice since it can be rolled with excellent results.

The only one who did it on first go, was DevonS. His came out good.

Damn though, was there drama 12 years ago!
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