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post #61 of 143 Old 06-10-2011, 06:56 AM
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Thanks for the Wikipedia link. I did my homework and dithered my way through it (ha - dithered!). I now know the difference between DSD and PCM. Just wait till I get on Jeopardy!!!
Started looking at the software options - winamp plugin looks best.
So - to get started - the newbie goes out and tries to buy an older PS3 (?) - saw something about not working with a recent operating system revision.then follow the hacks, get the keys and all - then the thing rips to the HDD drive on the PS3? Is that basically the route?
Are there any multichannel DSD samples out there that one can test the conversion and software player with?
Thanks for your patience.
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post #62 of 143 Old 06-10-2011, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHF View Post

So - to get started - the newbie goes out and tries to buy an older PS3 (?) - saw something about not working with a recent operating system revision.

I would imagine an SACD-compatible PS3 that has not been updated past firmware 3.55 will be sold at a premium. IIRC, firmware revision 3.56 came out around the end of January. My launch PS3 is on firmware revision 3.61, and I believe 3.65 is the latest firmware update.
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post #63 of 143 Old 06-10-2011, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

I would imagine an SACD-compatible PS3 that has not been updated past firmware 3.55 will be sold at a premium.

And I would imagine getting hard to find. I would love to be able to store my SACDs on my media server and access them via my HPTCs (like I do ALL my other media), but it just doesn't seem worth hunting down an old PS3 and paying a premium for it, just for that task.
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post #64 of 143 Old 06-10-2011, 12:14 PM
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Isn't there a way to downgrade one's firmware on a PS3?

I have a Motostorm sacd capable PS3 with the latest firmware and might be tempted to back up my sacd's when the time comes.
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post #65 of 143 Old 06-10-2011, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattroatl View Post

Isn't there a way to downgrade one's firmware on a PS3?

I have a Motostorm sacd capable PS3 with the latest firmware and might be tempted to back up my sacd's when the time comes.

I don't believe it's currently possible to downgrade the firmware to 3.55 or prior.
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post #66 of 143 Old 06-30-2011, 07:58 PM
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SACD ripping has now been accomplished using a PS3 with firmware below 3.55, on another forum. The full DSD file (both stereo/multichannel) is naked and can be burned to a DVD-R, though the discs can only be played on a handful of SACD players. Most notably, the Oppo Blu-ray players can play the DVD-R burns. This new development is literally days old. The process is not elegant by any means yet, but who knows as more people get a look at it.

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post #67 of 143 Old 06-30-2011, 09:05 PM
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This is really a great development. It is still a little early to get me excited, but it is a big step forward.

Care to speculate if/when it will be possible to get the files into WAV?

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Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post
SACD ripping has now been accomplished using a PS3 with firmware below 3.55, on another forum. The full DSD file (both stereo/multichannel) is naked and can be burned to a DVD-R, though the discs can only be played on a handful of SACD players. Most notably, the Oppo Blu-ray players can play the DVD-R burns. This new development is literally days old. The process is not elegant by any means yet, but who knows as more people get a look at it.
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post #68 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 04:24 AM
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It's not too early to get excited. Burning a disc to play in certain players is only one way to play the rip. You can also simply convert the tracks to WAV/FLAC using software which is a available (for a price or otherwise). But it can be done right now.
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post #69 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 06:07 AM
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Well, then I am excited. Ultimately that is what I want - a way to back up and play flac with attached disc or stream.

Now I've got to do find my friends with PS3's.

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Originally Posted by rungabic View Post

It's not too early to get excited. Burning a disc to play in certain players is only one way to play the rip. You can also simply convert the tracks to WAV/FLAC using software which is a available (for a price or otherwise). But it can be done right now.

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post #70 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

SACD ripping has now been accomplished using a PS3 with firmware below 3.55, on another forum. The full DSD file (both stereo/multichannel) is naked and can be burned to a DVD-R, though the discs can only be played on a handful of SACD players. Most notably, the Oppo Blu-ray players can play the DVD-R burns. This new development is literally days old. The process is not elegant by any means yet, but who knows as more people get a look at it.

There is one ridiculous forum, maybe the same one, where the main extent of interest only seems to be in making disc backups and being able to create DVD-R discs to play back the newly ripped SACD files. There's one guy there who's even inquiring about the possibility of making quasi-upsampled DSD/SACD discs from regular CDs with this process. So he desires to make even more discs.

Hands down, the biggest benefit from the great work of mr_wicked is being able to forgo disc use altogether, allowing for disc-less storage, file streaming and the subsequent huge convenience of not having to pull out a disc each and every time you desire to listen to an SACD title.

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post #71 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 10:25 AM
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That, and being able to backup discs that are long out of print, and for all practical purposes, irreplaceable.
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post #72 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 11:18 AM
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I'm sure that the Oppo beta group will be interested in playing with DSD file support. Is there any legal place to download DSD files?
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post #73 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 11:28 AM
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It would be great if the oppo could read DSD files off of a hard drive and pass them through HDMI untouched. It would also be nice if any software could do this seemingly simple task, but I don't think there is any -- I would imagine it's easy, but there's been no demand for it.
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post #74 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Is there any legal place to download DSD files?

free DSD downloads => www.2L.no/ => click 2L brand store dropdown, Test Bench HD audio files (DSDs half way down page)

Samsung 8000 @ 65 in; X1S primarily to upconvert Blu-Ray and Netflix/Amazon apps to Dolby Atmos; Samsung 950 Soundbar.
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post #75 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 12:37 PM
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I suppose the DSDIFF decoder for foobar2000 can handle the DSD-to-WAV conversion. I tried the plug-in with one of the free stereo DSD files from above, and it converted the DSD file to 88.2kHz/16-bit.
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post #76 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

SACD ripping has now been accomplished using a PS3 with firmware below 3.55, on another forum. The full DSD file (both stereo/multichannel) is naked and can be burned to a DVD-R, though the discs can only be played on a handful of SACD players. Most notably, the Oppo Blu-ray players can play the DVD-R burns. This new development is literally days old. The process is not elegant by any means yet, but who knows as more people get a look at it.

More information is needed about the format of these DSD discs. Thus far I've been unable to confirm support for any of these files or formats in an Oppo BD player. IOW, it doesn't work.
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post #77 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcpom View Post

free DSD downloads => www.2L.no/ => click 2L brand store dropdown, Test Bench HD audio files (DSDs half way down page)

These are in "DFF" format which does not work in an Oppo.
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post #78 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post


More information is needed about the format of these DSD discs. Thus far I've been unable to confirm support for any of these files or formats in an Oppo BD player. IOW, it doesn't work.

I haven't tried it personally, but players (such as the Oppo) that ignore pit signal processing supposedly will play a "SACD-R" just as if it were an SACD. The SACD-R is created simply by using sacd-ripper to create an ISO image (as opposed to individual tracks) and then burning that ISO to a DVD-R. Therefore, you don't need to worry about file formats.

As far as the Oppo playing individual DSD files, that's completely independent (and apparently not possible at the moment).

If you're talking about "DSD Discs", that's a separate format that plays in some Sony decks (including PS3) and computers. It's stereo-only and not something I'd ever want to bother with, personally.
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post #79 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rungabic View Post

I haven't tried it personally, but players (such as the Oppo) that ignore pit signal processing supposedly will play a "SACD-R" just as if it were an SACD. The SACD-R is created simply by using sacd-ripper to create an ISO image (as opposed to individual tracks) and then burning that ISO to a DVD-R. Therefore, you don't need to worry about file formats.

As far as the Oppo playing individual DSD files, that's completely independent (and apparently not possible at the moment).

If you're talking about "DSD Discs", that's a separate format that plays in some Sony decks (including PS3) and computers. It's stereo-only and not something I'd ever want to bother with, personally.

That explains it better, thanks. I was assuming the "DSD Disc" format was what was being created.

Somebody needs to hack a PC drive to make these rips.

Anyhow, I tried the Foobar2000 plugin for DFF files and it works very nicely for creating 24/88 files from the DFF format.
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post #80 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

There is one ridiculous forum, maybe the same one, where the main extent of interest only seems to be in making disc backups and being able to create DVD-R discs to play back the newly ripped SACD files.

So we should assume that you find those who make back-ups of CDs, DVDs, and Blu-rays to burned discs (for whatever ultimate purpose) to be just as ridiculous?
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post #81 of 143 Old 07-01-2011, 07:38 PM
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I agree that the notion of trading one shiny disc for another lacks reason. But it's a step in the right direction.
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post #82 of 143 Old 07-02-2011, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
I agree that the notion of trading one shiny disc for another lacks reason. But it's a step in the right direction.
I find it perfectly logical to make backups of SACD's for possible risk of theft, fire and whatever.

Some of my SACD's are OOP and can be impossible to replace or some only at extremely high cost.

Whether it is better to keep the iso backup on hard disk or on silver disk is a matter of opinion and open for discussion.

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post #83 of 143 Old 07-02-2011, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

So we should assume that you find those who make back-ups of CDs, DVDs, and Blu-rays to burned discs (for whatever ultimate purpose) to be just as ridiculous?

No, you'll note that I didn't say that backing up was a bad idea, per se. Rungabic made an especially good point in that regard, i.e., protecting rare, out-of-stock titles, etc. I was really only intending to pick on the fact that creating backups seemed to be their only area of interest and excitement. And very likely because these are people who tend to distrust disc-less playback. The types who would say something along the lines of, "It can't possibly sound as good as a disc played back in my [insert name of several hundred to thousand dollar plus disc player]".

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post #84 of 143 Old 07-03-2011, 01:29 PM
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What software exists to play DSD files? How many good DACs handle that without conversion to PCM? Personally I am interested for physical backups of my SACDs.

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post #85 of 143 Old 07-04-2011, 01:57 AM
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Here's my SACD ripping HOWTO:

hxxp://jere.my/?page=writings&sub_page=archive&display=0000000024

I'm advocating ripping and converting to AC-3, which will displease all the audiophile people, but it's the solution that works best for me since I can't play any other format over an optical connection without transcoding it to DTS or AC-3 anyway.

PS. Replace hxxp with http.
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post #86 of 143 Old 07-05-2011, 06:27 PM
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Nice guide - crazy premise Seriously though, good job!
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post #87 of 143 Old 07-10-2011, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Is there any legal place to download DSD files?

Check http://www.ps3sacd.com/dsd_downloads.html

Not only files in DFF format but also in DSF -- even more.
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post #88 of 143 Old 07-10-2011, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Somebody needs to hack a PC drive to make these rips.

That would involve building-in the electronics needed to read SACDs, Suppose someone did that, how would that help you (any more than someone hacking his PS3)?
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post #89 of 143 Old 07-10-2011, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T7T View Post

That would involve building-in the electronics needed to read SACDs, Suppose someone did that, how would that help you (any more than someone hacking his PS3)?

I don't think this is accurate. SACD uses the same drive hardware as DVD, so it should just be a matter of firmware hacking unless the chipsets themselves are hard-coded to block SACD. In fact PC drives can already read the CDA layer of an SACD, so we know the hardware is capable of reading one layer of the discs.
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post #90 of 143 Old 07-10-2011, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I don't think this is accurate. SACD uses the same drive hardware as DVD...

I thought a drive had to be SACD capable. My understanding is the drive itself had to be capable of reading the watermark info on SACDs, as it's embedded into the pits.
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