Stream lossless SACD and DVD-A to AV ceceiver via HDMI from PC? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 26 Old 03-08-2013, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Just wondering is it possible to stream lossless SACD (DSD) and DVD-Audio (MLP) to an AV ceceiver capable of decoding DSD and HD audio via HDMI from a PC.? I know foobar2000 can playback back SACD and DVD-A but not sure if it can stream the lossless audio to an AV receiver capable of decoding the audio via HDMI.
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post #2 of 26 Old 03-09-2013, 06:35 AM
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I just successfully tried the configuration you described yesterday with a DVD-A FLAC file. Not sure about SACD, but Foobar on PC to a Marantz AV-7005 pre/pro worked flawlessly.

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post #3 of 26 Old 03-09-2013, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dave McWilliams View Post

I just successfully tried the configuration you described yesterday with a DVD-A FLAC file. Not sure about SACD, but Foobar on PC to a Marantz AV-7005 pre/pro worked flawlessly.

I was thinking more of DVD-A ISO where foobar plays the files in the Audio-TS folder using the DVD-A plugin. For SACD you can play SACD iso and change the output to DSD for lossless resolution playback. Just not sure if foobar will retain the lossless and output via HDMI to a receiver capable of decoding.
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post #4 of 26 Old 03-15-2013, 01:20 AM
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AFAIK only Meridian players could transmit MLP stream to Meridian processor via proprietary link. It should be possible in theory to transmit it via HDMI since MLP is the predecessor of Dolby TrueHD. MLP is basically compressed PCM so we're back to the bitstream vs PCM beaten dead horse. smile.gif

I remember your receiver DSD query from your previous thread on DSD bitstreaming and despite what I said about the pitfalls of receiver handling of DSD you're still fixated on this. wink.gif There's a new (?) protocol to transmit DSD via USB.

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post #5 of 26 Old 03-29-2013, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by g12345567 View Post

I was thinking more of DVD-A ISO where foobar plays the files in the Audio-TS folder using the DVD-A plugin. For SACD you can play SACD iso and change the output to DSD for lossless resolution playback. Just not sure if foobar will retain the lossless and output via HDMI to a receiver capable of decoding.

Foobar2000 can read sacd and dvd-audio .iso files and play them in original format just fine. I do that now and output to an Integra dhc-80.3 pre/pro via HDMI. Be careful, as most receivers/prepros will not accept dsd (SACD audio format).

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post #6 of 26 Old 03-31-2013, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Good to hear. My receiver is a Marantz SR6007 and can accept and decode DSD. via HDMI. I assume as you said above Foobar can also stream the lossless DVD-Audio MLP audio via he HDMI as well and my receiver can also decode these files as well.
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post #7 of 26 Old 04-15-2013, 12:21 PM
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Has anyone downloaded and tried Audirvana Public Beta 1.4.9.0 ?
It adds support for multichannel DSD files. Files can be played from iTunes using a proxy system and sent via HDMI from a Mac to an AVR or PRE/PRO.
I am using the previous version for 2 channel playback and it works fine.,
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post #8 of 26 Old 10-24-2013, 05:36 PM
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I tried to play DSD ISO in foobar with ASIO Driver mode set to native DSD not PCM in SACD plugin, with my Realtek ALC889 with ASIO4ALL 2.10 via HDMI connected to AVR Onkyo 905 (DSD capable) but not work, no sound, only work with PCM mode.

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post #9 of 26 Old 11-21-2013, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

Foobar2000 can read sacd and dvd-audio .iso files and play them in original format just fine. I do that now and output to an Integra dhc-80.3 pre/pro via HDMI. Be careful, as most receivers/prepros will not accept dsd (SACD audio format).

I have an Integra DHC-9.9 which can accept DSD too, but I haven't been able to get it to stream with foobar. Would you mind sharing how you managed it, please?
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post #10 of 26 Old 04-29-2015, 07:48 PM
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i would like to know as well!
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post #11 of 26 Old 05-13-2015, 04:41 PM
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With HDMI and a receiver, you can pretty much play all of the high resolution formats available through a PC. The only thing I wasn't able to do is bitstream DSD. I can only get it when it's converted to PCM. It's not that big of a deal because I don't think I would be able to hear the difference anyway. I'm not sure why I can't get DSD through HDMI though when I can through a standalone player, but not on the PC. I tried researching what the reason is, but I can't seem to figure out it out. If you don't mind the conversion to PCM process, using HDMI via PC is a great option for music which is what I do.

Edit: Just realized I replied to a thread that is 2 years old...
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post #12 of 26 Old 05-18-2015, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almo89 View Post
With HDMI and a receiver, you can pretty much play all of the high resolution formats available through a PC. The only thing I wasn't able to do is bitstream DSD. I can only get it when it's converted to PCM...
It's much the same situation using LAV Filters.

It would appear that very few (if any) graphics chip-sets and/or audio chip-set are able to pass a viable DSD bit-stream via HDMI. In much the same way there were issues passing Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA bit-streams via HDMI a few years ago...

And just because you have a computer that's able to pass Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA bit-streams via HDMI does not mean it will be able to pass DSD as a viable bit-stream too!


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post #13 of 26 Old 03-28-2020, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>g12345567</strong> <a href="/t/1462314/stream-lossless-sacd-and-dvd-a-to-av-ceceiver-via-hdmi-from-pc#post_23061504"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>
I was thinking more of DVD-A ISO where foobar plays the files in the Audio-TS folder using the DVD-A plugin. For SACD you can play SACD iso and change the output to DSD for lossless resolution playback. Just not sure if foobar will retain the lossless and output via HDMI to a receiver capable of decoding.</div>
</div>
<br>
Foobar2000 can read sacd and dvd-audio .iso files and play them in original format just fine. I do that now and output to an Integra dhc-80.3 pre/pro via HDMI. Be careful, as most receivers/prepros will not accept dsd (SACD audio format).
Hi, i know this thread is very old, but so far, i am able to get the Integra 80.3 to produce sound only when the Foobar2k with SACD component is producing the 176.4 kbps pcm stream.

If you still use this setup, do you remember the settings/configurations that you used ?

For all that is worth, in my system (Dell 7390+foobar, Integra 80.3, Citation 7.1, Paradigm studio reference, and 52yr old ears) I am unable to differentiate consistently between 44kbps CD stream and 24/192 FLAC files of the same recording (free sampler from HDTracks, Dog Song) Maybe the highs are a bit more sparkling, but that could be me wanting to hear the difference.

Regards
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post #14 of 26 Old 03-28-2020, 08:11 AM
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I have my DSD, FLAC PCM high rez files on a NAS, no converting (none at NAS to receiver/pre-amp), raw files and I stream them to my bedroom receiver, my HT pre-pro and my 2 channel Oppo setup via my cat6 gigabit ethernet network and they stream just fine, not issue, no stuttering and are recognized as what they are. no PC needed.

I believe that your receiver can stream DSD, FLAC & PCM high rez files direct from your pc if it's left on, not sure it can read ISO files.

good luck, hope you get something resolved. I've been streaming at home for years it's really simple, I think sometimes we make it really complicated, but, there are easy ways to do it.

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post #15 of 26 Old 03-28-2020, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
I have my DSD, FLAC PCM high rez files on a NAS, no converting (none at NAS to receiver/pre-amp), raw files and I stream them to my bedroom receiver, my HT pre-pro and my 2 channel Oppo setup via my cat6 gigabit ethernet network and they stream just fine, not issue, no stuttering and are recognized as what they are. no PC needed.

I believe that your receiver can stream DSD, FLAC & PCM high rez files direct from your pc if it's left on, not sure it can read ISO files.

good luck, hope you get something resolved. I've been streaming at home for years it's really simple, I think sometimes we make it really complicated, but, there are easy ways to do it.
Thanks Solarrdadd for the information and your experience.

The Integra DHC 80.3 supports FLAC/MP3/WAV/PCM24/96 over streaming(DLNA), but no DSD. This works well (rudimentary, considering that this is a 2012 model), but quite simple to get that working from my phone and laptop.

I was trying to get DSD experience, and my Oppo-970HD is archaic and does not output DSD over HDMI. I fear that my relatively new laptop also does not output DSD over HDMI, and my receiver is too old to decode DSD over PCM (that my laptop is able to output, but the processor cannot decode)

I am using foobar2K + SACD components to transcode DSD to PCM @ 176.4kbps and that sounds excellent, but really not much different that 24/96 PCM to my ears. I guess I am happy, but the nerd in me wants to experiment, now that I have the time due to the lockdown.
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post #16 of 26 Old 03-28-2020, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snigdhendu View Post
Thanks Solarrdadd for the information and your experience.

The Integra DHC 80.3 supports FLAC/MP3/WAV/PCM24/96 over streaming(DLNA), but no DSD. This works well (rudimentary, considering that this is a 2012 model), but quite simple to get that working from my phone and laptop.

I was trying to get DSD experience, and my Oppo-970HD is archaic and does not output DSD over HDMI. I fear that my relatively new laptop also does not output DSD over HDMI, and my receiver is too old to decode DSD over PCM (that my laptop is able to output, but the processor cannot decode)

I am using foobar2K + SACD components to transcode DSD to PCM @ 176.4kbps and that sounds excellent, but really not much different that 24/96 PCM to my ears. I guess I am happy, but the nerd in me wants to experiment, now that I have the time due to the lockdown.
i'm sorry bud, I was responding to the OP.

I imagine for you, a USB/Analog DAC for the PC would work just fine, have you not tried that? at work I have a old netbook I use to get my DSD/FLAC/WAV/PCM collection that's on a 2tb USB3.0 drive. I have an iFi DAC connected to that netbook and it's analog output is connected to a small intergrated amp out to 2 speakers. my office music sounds and works perfectly. I also control everything with my ipad mini.

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post #17 of 26 Old 03-28-2020, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snigdhendu View Post
I am using foobar2K + SACD components to transcode DSD to PCM @ 176.4kbps and that sounds excellent, but really not much different that 24/96 PCM to my ears. I guess I am happy, but the nerd in me wants to experiment, now that I have the time due to the lockdown.
Quite a few of us with OPPO's use the player to transcode DSD64 (as used by SACD) to PCM. Some people send the PCM audio to their AVR via the OPPO's HDMI output. Others (like me) send the PCM audio to their amplifier(s) via the OPPO's RCA/phono outputs.

From what I remember, the OPPO BDP-103 transcodes DSD to PCM at 88.2kHz 24-bits (as it's a multiple of 44.1kHz). Which is more than good enough! But I have no idea how your OPPO-970HD transcodes DSD to PCM

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post #18 of 26 Old 03-28-2020, 07:09 PM
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@SeeMoreDigital I have the 105 in my 2 channels system and I stream DSD as well as play SACD's and I utilize the onboard DAC via XLR's out then XLR in to a 2 channel analog pre-amp this way, I send pure DSD unconverted from the DAC to the analog pre-amp then out to my 2 channel amp and speakers.

I believe the 103 can also do DSD direct to analog without converting it to PCM first, but, check your manual to be sure.

mine starts DSD and stays DSD til it hits my ears!

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post #19 of 26 Old 03-29-2020, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
I send pure DSD unconverted from the DAC to the analog pre-amp then out to my 2 channel amp and speakers...
Something is not correct...

It's not possible to send a DSD (digital) bit-stream to an analogue pre-amp, as an analogue audio device is only capable of understanding PCM signals.

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post #20 of 26 Old 03-29-2020, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
Something is not correct...

It's not possible to send a DSD (digital) bit-stream to an analogue pre-amp, as an analogue audio device is only capable of understanding PCM signals.
this is from the oppo 105 manual:

"DSD to Analogue Output:
The internal DAC (Digital-to-Analogue Converter) inside the OPPO player supports native DSD. You can connect the analogue audio output of the OPPO player to your A/V receiver, audio processor or amplifer to get native DSD audio."


the 105 has two amps, one for the multichannel analog output and one for the dedicated 2 channel analog output. I am using the dedicated stereo DAC via XLR out. my 2 channel analog only pre-amp (Emotiva XSP-1) has no digital inputs and no internal DAC in it. that pre-amp is connected to a 2 channel amp. I also have my 105 set in hdmi to "no audio out" to the only output i'm sending is via analog.


I won't argue the point, and i'm not in any way saying you are wrong, but, oppo says it's sending native DSD audio out via analog. I apologize in advance if i'm misunderstanding what Oppo says their 105 does.

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post #21 of 26 Old 03-29-2020, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
but, oppo says it's sending native DSD audio out via analog...
That's not possible...

Besides you say your Emotiva XSP-1 pre-amp is a 2-channel 'analogue' device, so it wouldn't know how to process/decode a DSD 'digital' bit-stream. Which means your OPPO is indeed transcoding DSD to PCM.

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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 03-29-2020 at 12:29 PM.
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post #22 of 26 Old 03-29-2020, 11:27 AM
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thanks for your response, i'm finished.

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post #23 of 26 Old 03-29-2020, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
That's not possible...

Besides you say your Emotiva XSP-1 pre-amp is a 2-channel 'analogue' device, so it wouldn't know how to process/decode a DSD 'digital' bit-stream. Which means your OPPO is indeed transcoding DSD to PCM.
I am responding because you recently edited your statement above.

i'm not sure why you keep talking about PCM. you must not have been reading anything I've said. the oppo's DAC can decode DSD direct to analog audio signal and send it out via it's XLR, it sends analog audio signal to said 2-channel analog pre-amp which sends that analog audio signal to the amp. i'm not using HDMI for anything other than video but, I even mentioned that I have the option for HDMI audio turned to no/off. but, you keep talking about DSD to PCM conversion and i'm talking about analog audio signals.

PCM is a digital signal not an analog signal, i'm not utilizing PCM out to my analog pre-amp it can't accept anything digital. I am sending it an analog signal from a converted DSD file that is NOT converted to PCM. please read the Oppo 105 manual. also, the mentioned 103 can also decode and convert DSD direct to analog for use with it's multichannel analog output just like the 105.

Back to what the OP is trying to get accomplished, he has a Marantz SR6007 and it can stream DSD 64 (I don't think the 6007 will support streaming DSD 128 but I could be mistaken about that fact) via ethernet/network, so, if he leaves his pc on and has the hard drive shared, the 6007 can see that drive and stream the music as DSD. if he has a dedicated NAS, he won't need to leave the pc on and it will stream the DSD/FLAC/WAV/PCM files from the NAS and play them on the 6007.

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post #24 of 26 Old 03-30-2020, 01:39 AM
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So yes. As I mentioned before, your OPPO is transcoding DSD to PCM.


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post #25 of 26 Old 03-30-2020, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
Quite a few of us with OPPO's use the player to transcode DSD64 (as used by SACD) to PCM. Some people send the PCM audio to their AVR via the OPPO's HDMI output. Others (like me) send the PCM audio to their amplifier(s) via the OPPO's RCA/phono outputs.

From what I remember, the OPPO BDP-103 transcodes DSD to PCM at 88.2kHz 24-bits (as it's a multiple of 44.1kHz). Which is more than good enough! But I have no idea how your OPPO-970HD transcodes DSD to PCM

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My Oppo 970HD can output analog for SACD playback, no digital output for SACD due to copyright reasons
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post #26 of 26 Old 04-09-2020, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
Something is not correct...

It's not possible to send a DSD (digital) bit-stream to an analogue pre-amp, as an analogue audio device is only capable of understanding PCM signals.
Analog can only receive analog so NO PCM as well.

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