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post #31 of 126 Old 08-28-2013, 05:33 PM
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I agree that some of us have biases that can color our views of certain equipment. I was shouted down on the Oppo 83 forum for daring to say I felt the Analog Outs were shrill sounding. I like everything else about the unit but was bullied for having one negative comment. I tend to reject the Fan boy attitude. I want the best for my $ period. I like both my Denon 3910 and Oppo 83. That being said, the Oppo isn't close when it comes to the Analog Sound. The Oppo has better Video upscaling of SD material. I gain nothing from criticizing or praising either of them. When I noted the harshness in the Oppo I unplugged the cables from the Oppo and put them in the Denon. No shrillness with the same source material thru the same speakers in the same room with the same cables. I certainly did not wish it to be this way. Months later I purchased an Onkyo 5007 with 32 bit DAC's. I note no shrillness using the Oppo HDMI outs to the Receiver, in the same room with the same speakers. Don't know if it's solely the DAC's or a combination of the DAC's and Oppo's implementation of them in the 83. I have 2 Audiophile friends who heard exactly the same thing I heard, without any prompting from me. Even my GF noted a brittle sound to dialog while watching the BD of The Fifth Element. She is clueless about Audio Gear. I plan to eventually buy an Oppo 103 ( or 113 ) and will be using its digital outs.
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post #32 of 126 Old 08-31-2013, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GZAP1 View Post

I agree that some of us have biases that can color our views of certain equipment. I was shouted down on the Oppo 83 forum for daring to say I felt the Analog Outs were shrill sounding. I like everything else about the unit but was bullied for having one negative comment. I tend to reject the Fan boy attitude. I want the best for my $ period. I like both my Denon 3910 and Oppo 83. That being said, the Oppo isn't close when it comes to the Analog Sound. The Oppo has better Video upscaling of SD material. I gain nothing from criticizing or praising either of them. When I noted the harshness in the Oppo I unplugged the cables from the Oppo and put them in the Denon. No shrillness with the same source material thru the same speakers in the same room with the same cables. I certainly did not wish it to be this way. Months later I purchased an Onkyo 5007 with 32 bit DAC's. I note no shrillness using the Oppo HDMI outs to the Receiver, in the same room with the same speakers. Don't know if it's solely the DAC's or a combination of the DAC's and Oppo's implementation of them in the 83. I have 2 Audiophile friends who heard exactly the same thing I heard, without any prompting from me. Even my GF noted a brittle sound to dialog while watching the BD of The Fifth Element. She is clueless about Audio Gear. I plan to eventually buy an Oppo 103 ( or 113 ) and will be using its digital outs.

The only reason why i questioned it is because I've heard nothing but good things about the oppo 83's analog output (one person even stated that he felt that the stereo out's on the unit were superb). It's my understanding that virtually every modern DAC produces flat output. To discover that it doesn't leads me to consider the possibility that Oppo released the 83 with malfunctioning DAC's.

This isn't about fan-boy posture. I wonder where the measurements are of the 83's output that shows this emphasis in the treble.
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post #33 of 126 Old 09-02-2013, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GZAP1 View Post

I agree that some of us have biases that can color our views of certain equipment. I was shouted down on the Oppo 83 forum for daring to say I felt the Analog Outs were shrill sounding. I like everything else about the unit but was bullied for having one negative comment. I tend to reject the Fan boy attitude. I want the best for my $ period. I like both my Denon 3910 and Oppo 83. That being said, the Oppo isn't close when it comes to the Analog Sound. The Oppo has better Video upscaling of SD material. I gain nothing from criticizing or praising either of them. When I noted the harshness in the Oppo I unplugged the cables from the Oppo and put them in the Denon. No shrillness with the same source material thru the same speakers in the same room with the same cables. I certainly did not wish it to be this way. Months later I purchased an Onkyo 5007 with 32 bit DAC's. I note no shrillness using the Oppo HDMI outs to the Receiver, in the same room with the same speakers. Don't know if it's solely the DAC's or a combination of the DAC's and Oppo's implementation of them in the 83. I have 2 Audiophile friends who heard exactly the same thing I heard, without any prompting from me. Even my GF noted a brittle sound to dialog while watching the BD of The Fifth Element. She is clueless about Audio Gear. I plan to eventually buy an Oppo 103 ( or 113 ) and will be using its digital outs.


I don't know why some people get so offended when you don't agree with them. It's like if you don't agree with them it's a personal affront and they'll go to war to shout out their views. Like I said before, everyone's ears, equipment and rooms are different so YMMV is the golden rule here. The funny part is they're defending something that Oppo won't even back them up on. They made the original 83SE, then the 95 and 105 to address audio issues that they found with the 83.

BTW, through my job I met a lot of live sound engineers and musicians. Most of them laugh at audiophiles. Most musicians just want to get paid and get laid and most engineers want it to sound good without any major technical blips. AQ is way down on the list.
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post #34 of 126 Old 09-02-2013, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

The only reason why i questioned it is because I've heard nothing but good things about the oppo 83's analog output (one person even stated that he felt that the stereo out's on the unit were superb). It's my understanding that virtually every modern DAC produces flat output. To discover that it doesn't leads me to consider the possibility that Oppo released the 83 with malfunctioning DAC's.

This isn't about fan-boy posture. I wonder where the measurements are of the 83's output that shows this emphasis in the treble.



You're correlating that flat output from a DAC means it sounds good, and any deviation means the DAC is faulty. It just means the DAC measures flat. Flat response has never meant anything sounds good. In fact the flatter something sounds, the worse it will sound to our analog ears. The DAC's in the audio grade players are tweaked to remove things that aren't measured, like jitter. Jitter can be heard. There is also a larger transformer and capacitors that are audio grade. This helps with transient spikes in music that would clip cheaper caps and strain a smaller transformer.

This is from the Oppo 105 page. http://oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-105/

The DAC is one of the most important components for digital audio playback. The SABRE32 Reference ES9018 from ESS Technology is the world’s best performing 32-bit audio DAC solution targeted for high-end consumer applications and professional studio equipment. With the ESS patented 32-bit Hyperstream™ DAC architecture and Time Domain Jitter Eliminator, the SABRE32 Reference DAC delivers an unprecedented DNR (Dynamic Range) of up to 135dB and THD+N (Total Harmonic Distortion plus Noise) of -120dB, the industry’s highest performance level that will satisfy even the most demanding audio enthusiast. The BDP-105 uses two ES9018 DAC chips - one for the 7.1-channel output, and another for the dedicated stereo output. To learn more about the technologies behind the exceptional performance of the SABRE DAC, please read the SABRE Technical White Paper.

Toroidal Power Supply - A toroidal power transformer offers superior power efficiency and much lower exterior magnetic fields over traditional laminated steel core transformers. The BDP-105's toroidal linear power supply provides a very clean and robust power source to the critical audio components.


I thought he argument that if two different pieces of equipment measure the same means that they also sound the same was debunked a long time ago, but some notions seem to die hard.
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post #35 of 126 Old 09-03-2013, 02:25 PM
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Just auditioning and reading I figured out right now the best bang for the buck is:

1. Oppo 103 for HDMI.

2. Oppo 105 if you:
A. Have a great set of headphones.
B. Have invested in quality XLR stereo interconnects, balanced preamplifier,
and ideally the pair of 200lb monoblocks.

2x-Panamax-5510Pro(high/low) > Harmony-659 > Marantz-UD9004(bal.2+RCA7.1)/Panny-UB900/Pio-48AV/CM-7000PAL/Roku-Premiere+/Dell-E7450 > Marantz-AV8802A/Classé-CP700(bypass)/King-Cobra-all > Epson-LS10500/Carada-1.4/LG-27UD58 > 2xSherbourn-5/1500A 2xParasound-Zamp-v.3> Belden 10AWG/silver/gold > Paradigm-S8v.2-7.1.4(Servo15v2/P-80A)
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post #36 of 126 Old 09-04-2013, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobpaule View Post

Just auditioning and reading I figured out right now the best bang for the buck is:

1. Oppo 103 for HDMI.

2. Oppo 105 if you:
A. Have a great set of headphones.
B. Have invested in quality XLR stereo interconnects, balanced preamplifier,
and ideally the pair of 200lb monoblocks.

bobpaule

the 105 is also handy (compared to the 103) if you want:
1. a USB asynchronous DAC interface
2. coaxial and/or optical inputs as well as hdmi inputs
3. a need for stereo analogue outputs and also multi-channel analogue outputs.

Personally, I don't need the 105 advantages, so am still happily using my 93 via HDMI.

Benje
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post #37 of 126 Old 09-05-2013, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

You're correlating that flat output from a DAC means it sounds good, and any deviation means the DAC is faulty. It just means the DAC measures flat.

No. I didn't make any correlation that it "sounds good". The topic was raised that the 83 had emphasis in the treble range. I suggested there was something wrong with the DAC or analog output that caused it. Of course, no measurements came up backing up this emphasis in the treble on the 83 - not even from Oppo. IIRC (someone stomp on me if I am wrong) a flat output is a design goal with DAC's.
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Flat response has never meant anything sounds good. In fact the flatter something sounds, the worse it will sound to our analog ears.

You're suggesting that this is a universally accepted fact, and I disagree. I'd bet you'd find many more who would disagree too.

If you mean to suggest that there are those who find the distortions and other issues related with Vinyl or tube amps pleasing, I would agree with that wholeheartedly.

But that is not everyone. As a matter of fact, here's a little blurb about research that is being done by Sean Olive @ Harman;

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2012/05/more-evidence-that-kids-even-japanese.html

If you mean to suggest that people enjoy different kinds of speakers and how they 'color' the sound, and how they may not want 'flat' performance, I would agree with that wholeheartedly as well. (despite what I posted above)

But we're talking about DAC's and the analog output of a disc player. And quite frankly I wanted (and want) to stay on topic.

I'm unaware of a DAC that is designed to do anything other than reproduce a signal as flat as a pancake. I imagine there might be an esoteric exception to this.
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The DAC's in the audio grade players are tweaked to remove things that aren't measured, like jitter. Jitter can be heard.

It can be heard? Where's the supporting evidence, like from an AES paper or ABX DBT or something other than subjective opinion?
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post #38 of 126 Old 09-06-2013, 11:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

The only reason why i questioned it is because I've heard nothing but good things about the oppo 83's analog output (one person even stated that he felt that the stereo out's on the unit were superb). It's my understanding that virtually every modern DAC produces flat output. To discover that it doesn't leads me to consider the possibility that Oppo released the 83 with malfunctioning DAC's.

This isn't about fan-boy posture. I wonder where the measurements are of the 83's output that shows this emphasis in the treble.

You're correlating that flat output from a DAC means it sounds good, and any deviation means the DAC is faulty.

I've tested over 100 DACs and none of them tested perfectly flat. I wouldn't expect any real world DAC to test out to be perfectly flat. So perfectly flat is a meaningless standard. What matters is how nonflat the DAC is, as well as what frequency range it is nonflat in. Noise and nonlinear distortion including jitter also matter.
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It just means the DAC measures flat. Flat response has never meant anything sounds good.

Flat response is one of three necessary conditions for something to sound like itself. I don't think you understand the meaning of high fidelity which includes the idea that an audio signal has an innate sound quality that is whatever it was meant to be, and that is not necessarily a good sound. High Fidely simply means reproducing that sound as accurately as possible and letting the chips fall where they may. So you are right that " Flat response has never meant anything sounds good." It has always meant that one of three necessary conditions that are required for it to sound like itself has been met.
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In fact the flatter something sounds, the worse it will sound to our analog ears.

More evidence that you don't understand the basic concepts of high fidelity. The flatter an audio system's response it, the more the original recording sounds like it did to its producer. If he has bad taste then it will still sound bad. If he has good taste and does good work, flat response means that one of 3 major stumbling blocks to good sound has been overcome.
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The DAC's in the audio grade players are tweaked to remove things that aren't measured, like jitter

The basic error here is the idea that jitter can't be measured. For the record jitter had been measured accurately for several decades before there was even digital audio. Contrary to your apparent belief we didn't forget how ot measure jitter just because digital audio was invented. It may surprise you that analog tape and LP playback never have have less than about a thousand times more jitter than good modern digital equipment. Jitter has been in analog recordings as long as there have been analog recordings, right back to Edison's first recording. Jitter is one of many resason why crappy sounding ancient recordings sound so crappy.
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Jitter can be heard.

Apparently not by fanciers of analog media. I never hear them complaining about the jitter in their gear, even though it is monumental if you measure it. I often hear it while listening to their stuff.
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There is also a larger transformer and capacitors that are audio grade. This helps with transient spikes in music that would clip cheaper caps and strain a smaller transformer.

More audiophile myths.

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post #39 of 126 Old 09-07-2013, 01:57 AM
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The basic error here is the idea that jitter can't be measured. For the record jitter had been measured accurately for several decades before there was even digital audio. Contrary to your apparent belief we didn't forget how ot measure jitter just because digital audio was invented. It may surprise you that analog tape and LP playback never have have less than about a thousand times more jitter than good modern digital equipment. Jitter has been in analog recordings as long as there have been analog recordings, right back to Edison's first recording. Jitter is one of many resason why crappy sounding ancient recordings sound so crappy.

Arny - this section is an eye-opener for me. I suppose in the context of the post I replied to, it's even more significant. And it's also an eye-opener how this is discussed to death in digital audio, yet never mentioned in analog.
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post #40 of 126 Old 09-08-2013, 05:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

The basic error here is the idea that jitter can't be measured. For the record jitter had been measured accurately for several decades before there was even digital audio. Contrary to your apparent belief we didn't forget how ot measure jitter just because digital audio was invented. It may surprise you that analog tape and LP playback never have have less than about a thousand times more jitter than good modern digital equipment. Jitter has been in analog recordings as long as there have been analog recordings, right back to Edison's first recording. Jitter is one of many resason why crappy sounding ancient recordings sound so crappy.

Arny - this section is an eye-opener for me. I suppose in the context of the post I replied to, it's even more significant. And it's also an eye-opener how this is discussed to death in digital audio, yet never mentioned in analog.

This obsession with jitter in digital equipment, and rank disregard for orders of magnitude more jitter in analog equipment is one of those mysteries of life.
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post #41 of 126 Old 09-08-2013, 06:18 AM
 
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I'm unaware of a DAC that is designed to do anything other than reproduce a signal as flat as a pancake. I imagine there might be an esoteric exception to this.

There are exceptions that get surprising amount of distribution.

Several mainstream DAC chip manufacturers produce DACs that provide a number of different reconstruction filter response characteristics.

For example:

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM8741.pdf

"The WM8741 includes fine resolution volume and soft mute control, digital de-emphasis and a range of advanced digital filter responses..."

This is easy to implement with a few square microns more silicon, and digital filter design has been largely automated with relatively inexpensive off-the shelf software such as Matlab. If it sells more chips, its a win for the chip manufacturer. In modest production quantities they are about $10 each, so they can be included in products running as low as $100. There is rampant discounting in excess of published pricing.

Products feature the WM8741 by name are easy to find with pricing from $200 to $800 and more. Google is your friend.

Of all the dozen or more of available response curves most have important parameters such as in-band ripple and Nyquist frequency attenuation that pretty much guarantee sonic transparency. However there are a few that actually have the potential for sounding a bit different on some program material. One such filter is "PCM Filter Response 3 " which lets through a certain amount of aliasing. This might crispen up the far high end, but its all distortion.

So, you can use this chip to build a DAC with an extraordinary number of *features* but the vast majority of them will have no audible effect. I'm certain that they will appeal to people who seek greater involvement with their listening experiences of a non-musical kind.
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post #42 of 126 Old 09-08-2013, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

There are exceptions that get surprising amount of distribution.

Several mainstream DAC chip manufacturers produce DACs that provide a number of different reconstruction filter response characteristics.

For example:

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM8741.pdf

"The WM8741 includes fine resolution volume and soft mute control, digital de-emphasis and a range of advanced digital filter responses..."

This is easy to implement with a few square microns more silicon, and digital filter design has been largely automated with relatively inexpensive off-the shelf software such as Matlab. If it sells more chips, its a win for the chip manufacturer. In modest production quantities they are about $10 each, so they can be included in products running as low as $100. There is rampant discounting in excess of published pricing.

Products feature the WM8741 by name are easy to find with pricing from $200 to $800 and more. Google is your friend.

Of all the dozen or more of available response curves most have important parameters such as in-band ripple and Nyquist frequency attenuation that pretty much guarantee sonic transparency. However there are a few that actually have the potential for sounding a bit different on some program material. One such filter is "PCM Filter Response 3 " which lets through a certain amount of aliasing. This might crispen up the far high end, but its all distortion.

So, you can use this chip to build a DAC with an extraordinary number of *features* but the vast majority of them will have no audible effect. I'm certain that they will appeal to people who seek greater involvement with their listening experiences of a non-musical kind.

Thanks Arny!
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post #43 of 126 Old 09-08-2013, 03:36 PM
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Perhaps the OP will tell us what he decided?

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

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post #44 of 126 Old 09-08-2013, 04:48 PM
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My Onkyo DVD plays SACD and DVD-A

Yamaha TSR-7850 Receiver
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post #45 of 126 Old 09-10-2013, 09:38 AM
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Z.T. You might consider Oppo's DV 980 H, one of the last great multi disc players prior to Blu-Ray. It can output 1080P and SACD through HDMI. And I can vouch for how good a DVD-A can sound. Oh, and when I called Oppo about a minor glitch, just last year, they said send it in. They fixed it in a timely manner for free (long out of warranty} and installed the latest firmware update. The damn thing is better than new!

BTW I have a BDP-83 I will sell you for $600.

bo130, you come across as very biased and rigid. You might do well to listen to the anecdotal evidence of people like ti-triodes and Arny considering their backgrounds. I noticed you often referred to "what others said", including how good the analog sound is with the BDP-83. Owning one since day one, and paying attention to reviews, I've only heard great things except for the analog output. The HDMI out has been exceptional and the SP/dif coax out to my digital Meridian speakers is fantastic. I only recently started using the analog out to my JBL active studio monitors. The school is still out on the analog.

Gota go, I hear a BDP-103 calling, or is that a BDP-113!!!!

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post #46 of 126 Old 09-11-2013, 05:07 PM
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bo130, you come across as very biased and rigid. You might do well to listen to the anecdotal evidence of people like ti-triodes and Arny considering their backgrounds

I have no doubt of Arny's qualifications, but he was speaking about DAC's, not the BDP-83, and I am willing to bet that he'd very likely state that no one could hear a whiff of a difference between the BDP-83 or 103 in a double blind test.

I'm aware of "anecdotal evidence". it's ripe in this hobby. It sometimes bears no relation to reality.
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post #47 of 126 Old 09-12-2013, 11:28 AM
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Would you agree that the 83SE, 95 and 105 exist because of the BDP-83's weakest link was it's analog output?

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post #48 of 126 Old 09-12-2013, 01:53 PM
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Would you agree that the 83SE, 95 and 105 exist because of the BDP-83's weakest link was it's analog output?

NuForce apparently thinks that the analog output of many of the models of Oppo aren't up to snuff. Again, where is the evidence that the differences are audible (not just numbers or ad-copy), outside of anecdotal evidence or opinion?
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post #49 of 126 Old 09-12-2013, 03:59 PM
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Would you agree that the 83SE, 95 and 105 exist because of the BDP-83's weakest link was it's analog output?

Not at all. The 83SE existed to fill a void for mainly stereo analog fans.
The 95 and 105 are updates of that platform, also adding more features. Their 93 and 103 counterparts actually include many of the design changes used in the 83SE and are every bit as good as the 83SE for multichannel analog. Primarily the differences are in the dedicated stereo outs.
You can call the analog board in the 83 a "weak link", but it's still a great deal better than anything else in its day, excepting players costing many times more than $499.
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post #50 of 126 Old 09-12-2013, 07:42 PM
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NuForce apparently thinks that the analog output of many of the models of Oppo aren't up to snuff.

I disagree. By that I mean NuForce is in the modification business so that is what they do. There were mods from various companies for the 83SE, 95 and now the 105. Does that mean that the analog output of those players aren't up to snuff?

Bill

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I disagree. By that I mean NuForce is in the modification business so that is what they do.

Yes, but they're implying that there is something that is not up to snuff with the analog outputs of those units, and that there is something that they feel is "better" than what was originally sold.
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There were mods from various companies for the 83SE, 95 and now the 105. Does that mean that the analog output of those players aren't up to snuff?

Who's to say there was something wrong with the 83?

I have yet to see any documentation that there was something audibly (not measurably) wrong, other than the aforementioned "anecdotal evidence". I'm really curious to see that.
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post #52 of 126 Old 09-12-2013, 08:54 PM
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post #53 of 126 Old 09-12-2013, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

Yes, but they're implying that there is something that is not up to snuff with the analog outputs of those units, and that there is something that they feel is "better" than what was originally sold.
Who's to say there was something wrong with the 83?

I have yet to see any documentation that there was something audibly (not measurably) wrong, other than the aforementioned "anecdotal evidence". I'm really curious to see that.

Where did NuForce say that the analog output of the 83 was "not up to snuff"? Just about any player out there in all price ranges can probably be made better with mods of some kind. But that doesn't mean that specific player is "not up to snuff". I personally never thought there was anything wrong with the 83. What form of documentation are you looking for? If it isn't in a form of a measurement then it would be a subjective listening impression. Correct?

Bill

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Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, UDP-203, BDP-105, BDP-103, BDP-93, BDP-83, Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #54 of 126 Old 09-13-2013, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I personally never thought there was anything wrong with the 83. What form of documentation are you looking for? If it isn't in a form of a measurement then it would be a subjective listening impression. Correct?

Bill

Anything other than "anecdotal evidence" showing that there's something audibly improper with the analog performance of the 83. But I'm not holding my breath on that.
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post #55 of 126 Old 09-13-2013, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

Anything other than "anecdotal evidence" showing that there's something audibly improper with the analog performance of the 83. But I'm not holding my breath on that.

Again what would you be expecting in the form of "evidence"? Other than subjective opinions of those that own or have listened to 83 is about all you could expect to see. Good thing you aren't holding your breath wink.gif.

Bill

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Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, UDP-203, BDP-105, BDP-103, BDP-93, BDP-83, Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #56 of 126 Old 09-13-2013, 08:57 AM
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My 83 sounds good to me. I use the 83's onboard decoding for both analog multi-channel and two channel. Ignorance is bliss.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

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post #57 of 126 Old 09-13-2013, 10:41 AM
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Ignorant? Nah. You,re probably playing it into a fine system. I like my 2 channel analog out. But others might be connecting to a pair of Magicos costing more than a small house. For those, and this is where I disagree with some, Oppo improved their analog circuitry for that very reason. But that's not to say they were fixing something that was broken. On the contrary, I like the analog out of my 83. The coax SP/dif out to my Meridians is a joy. The HDMI to my TX-NR929 is excellent.

But I still maintain the 95 & 105 are an evolution of the 83SE with other stuff added.

I can still remember stopping by Oppo on my way home from work, picking their brains as I was picking up a DV 980H and them my BDP-83.

I wonder how a BDP-113 will play out?

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post #58 of 126 Old 09-13-2013, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Again what would you be expecting in the form of "evidence"?

Frequency response graphs of the analog output? Anything even remotely objective? And I'm not talking about anything inaudible.
Quote:
Other than subjective opinions of those that own or have listened to 83 is about all you could expect to see. Good thing you aren't holding your breath wink.gif.

Bill

I know. biggrin.gif That is kind of the point that I was making.
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post #59 of 126 Old 09-14-2013, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Perhaps the OP will tell us what he decided?

Sorry I didn't get back sooner...So far my DVD-3910 is still playing DVD-As and I'm using the Sony BDP S5100 to play SACDS but next week I may check out one of these:
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Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

.... Around or below the $200 mark there are Pioneer Elite BDP-52FD, 53-FD and 62FD (soon to be replaced with new model). ...

https://www.avsforum.com/t/1467142/pioneer-elite-bdp-62fd-blu-ray-player-for-only-199-98-at-magnolia-best-buy
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post #60 of 126 Old 09-14-2013, 08:02 PM
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The DV-980H I use only for DVD-Audios not playable in the A1UDCI is plagued by the 48/44.1kHz constant bug, downconverts MLP to LPCM that way.
To be honest I am also bored with it.

Pioneer BDP-62FD, got it used on ebay today.

It does:

1. Output full 96kHz MLP-LPCM on one HDMI output, and video on the other off DVD-Audios as long as 1080i resolution is set, which works for me as I
will only pair it with my secondary monitor (an Asus 24" Peerless ceiling mounted 180 deg wide angle).

2. Have same Marvell chip as the Oppo 103 for those who will use it for video. Have to keep the PS3 because of all apps Pioneers don't have
VUDU, real shame as Netflix and Amazon still downthrottle resolutions when servers get busy.

I always ignored DVD-Audio because on paper SACD was better, now I am rapidly getting hooked on it. I think BD-Audio has a great future also,
Steven Wilson's Raven, Carla Bruni's French Songs, and LAPQ's Rupa-K are delicious decoded in the A1UDCI.

2x-Panamax-5510Pro(high/low) > Harmony-659 > Marantz-UD9004(bal.2+RCA7.1)/Panny-UB900/Pio-48AV/CM-7000PAL/Roku-Premiere+/Dell-E7450 > Marantz-AV8802A/Classé-CP700(bypass)/King-Cobra-all > Epson-LS10500/Carada-1.4/LG-27UD58 > 2xSherbourn-5/1500A 2xParasound-Zamp-v.3> Belden 10AWG/silver/gold > Paradigm-S8v.2-7.1.4(Servo15v2/P-80A)
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