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post #3151 of 3175 Old 04-11-2019, 05:16 PM
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John Mayer

Heavier Things
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post #3152 of 3175 Old 04-11-2019, 05:30 PM
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I watched the second DVD of Queen's Greatest Hits the other night. The sound was good, but there wasn't nearly as much of value on it as on the first DVD. I was thinking of picking up that complete Queen CD box set, but after hearing this, I'm not so sure. The videos were often dumb too. I guess there was a reason I lost track of them after their first half dozen or so albums. The duet with Bowie was good though.
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post #3153 of 3175 Old 04-11-2019, 06:02 PM
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I watched the second DVD of Queen's Greatest Hits the other night. The sound was good, but there wasn't nearly as much of value on it as on the first DVD. I was thinking of picking up that complete Queen CD box set, but after hearing this, I'm not so sure. The videos were often dumb too. I guess there was a reason I lost track of them after their first half dozen or so albums. The duet with Bowie was good though.
sworth - I found the most value on the Queen's Greatest Hits DVD's to be the commentary tracks for each video by Brian and Roger.
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post #3154 of 3175 Old 04-12-2019, 04:14 PM
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Mark Knopfler - Sailing To Philadelphia DVD-A
Genesis - Abacab SACD
Genesis - Duke SACD
Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway JSACD
Pink Floyd - The Division Bell Blu-ray

I normally try to listen to surround music titles I haven't listened to lately. But Sailing To Philadelphia and The Division Bell keep ending up in the Oppo. Both are excellent albums and 5.1 mixes. Listening to The Division Bell as I type and it's one of my favorite 5.1 mixes. I can't believe I passed on a ticket to The Division Bell tour back in '94. WTF was I thinking ! Probably the fact that I just built a house and was broke and it was a work night. Oh well the Blu-ray will have to be the consolation prize .

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post #3155 of 3175 Old 04-12-2019, 06:27 PM
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Stan Getz Quartet

Pure Getz
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post #3156 of 3175 Old 04-13-2019, 10:11 AM
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I just finished listening to a Yes semi-marathon set - I guess I was in a Yes mood:

Close To The Edge - DVD-Audio (Close To The Edge, And You And I)

Fragile - DVD-Audio (Roundabout, Long Distance Runaround/The Fish)

The Yes Album - BluRay (Starship Trooper, I've Seen All Good People)

I find hi-res audio makes vintage music like the above really shine. The individual vocal elements and musical nuances of the instruments bring new life to these older recordings by adding much more detail. I've heard them played plenty of times on the radio but don't remember hearing these subtle elements until now, which gives me added appreciation for the music. I play these hi-res discs over and over and still hear new details I hadn't heard before - I just love this!
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post #3157 of 3175 Old 04-13-2019, 08:35 PM
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One White Russian in the belly, a second in hand, the lights turned down, it's time for some Beck

Beck: Sea Change (SACD 5.1)


I reject your reality and substitute my own.

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post #3158 of 3175 Old 04-13-2019, 09:34 PM
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Birdsong At Morning: Signs And Wonders (Blu Ray 5.1)

The only issue with this album is that, when I reach for some Birdsong, I always grab this album when the more than capable A Slight Departure sits neglected


I reject your reality and substitute my own.

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post #3159 of 3175 Old 04-14-2019, 10:31 AM
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It's a beautiful Surround Sound Sunday and Mrs K and I are listening to in 5.1:

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post #3160 of 3175 Old 04-14-2019, 07:10 PM
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post #3161 of 3175 Old 04-15-2019, 07:38 AM
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Emerson, Lake and Palmer - ELP S/T DVD-A
Yes - Close To The Edge Blu-ray
Birdsong At Morning - A Slight Departure Blu-ray
The Moody Blues - On The Threshold Of A Dream SACD

I haven't played the Close To The Edge Blu-ray in quite awhile. Once it was playing I remembered why I haven't. In my opinion the 5.1 mix is flat and not very immersive. Not sure why as many of the other Steven Wilson multichannel remixes I have are quite immersive with a depth to them. All of the other titles in this list sound much better than CTTE IMO.

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post #3162 of 3175 Old 04-15-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Charley View Post


Enjoying EDM music by Matt Darey, Wolf in Atmos (7.1.4).

Artist has made it available via a free MKV file download.

https://soundcloud.com/mattdarey/set...wolf-the-album
I can't find free download link. Is it good?
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post #3163 of 3175 Old 04-15-2019, 12:34 PM
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I think he started charging few weeks back for that -
Ugh I'm too late! I can't find free download anymore. Is it good?
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post #3164 of 3175 Old 04-15-2019, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
Emerson, Lake and Palmer - ELP S/T DVD-A
Yes - Close To The Edge Blu-ray
Birdsong At Morning - A Slight Departure Blu-ray
The Moody Blues - On The Threshold Of A Dream SACD

I haven't played the Close To The Edge Blu-ray in quite awhile. Once it was playing I remembered why I haven't. In my opinion the 5.1 mix is flat and not very immersive. Not sure why as many of the other Steven Wilson multichannel remixes I have are quite immersive with a depth to them. All of the other titles in this list sound much better than CTTE IMO.

Bill
Bill - I've been scratching my head thinking about this comment regarding Close To The Edge. I just listened again and I found the surround mix to be subtle but very effective. True, there isn't always something heard in the surround speakers during the entire track - but when there is, I found it to be quite effective. Example - the "I Get Up, I Get Down" section, especially the organ at about 12 minutes in - what I heard was full surround in all 5 speakers. I also enjoyed the mix of the background vocals coming out of the surround channels throughout the song. I guess you prefer a different, more pronounced surround effect?

Andre'

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post #3165 of 3175 Old 04-15-2019, 07:51 PM
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Bill - I've been scratching my head thinking about this comment regarding Close To The Edge. I just listened again and I found the surround mix to be subtle but very effective. True, there isn't always something heard in the surround speakers during the entire track - but when there is, I found it to be quite effective. Example - the "I Get Up, I Get Down" section, especially the organ at about 12 minutes in - what I heard was full surround in all 5 speakers. I also enjoyed the mix of the background vocals coming out of the surround channels throughout the song. I guess you prefer a different, more pronounced surround effect?

Andre'
Andre',

It's not as much about the "surround effect" that would be sound bouncing from all speakers. But more about the lack of depth that I find with the Close To The Edge 5.1 mix. It just seems flat with all of the music being projected with no sense of say the vocals being more forward and backing vocals or instruments being in the background. The gold standard for surround mixes for me would be Beck's Sea Change, Roxy Music's Avalon and Pink Floyd's The Division Bell. When listening to these 5.1 mixes there is an incredible amount of depth which almost envelopes you in a bubble of music. I listened to The Division Bell Blu-ray the other day at insanely loud volumes! I really felt as if I was in a bubble of music where certain sounds and instruments were right around me where other sounds were in the background. Amazing 5.1 mix!

This can also be an issue for me with stereo mixes. Some stereo mixes in my collection have an almost surround effect due to the depth of the mix. Those are the ones I really enjoy no matter what the genre is. Beck's Sea Change MOFI CD has incredible depth with an almost surround sound effect but with just two speakers. As much as I mostly listen to Sea Change in 5.1 the MOFI CD is a nice change every once in awhile.

Bill
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post #3166 of 3175 Old 04-16-2019, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
Andre',

It's not as much about the "surround effect" that would be sound bouncing from all speakers. But more about the lack of depth that I find with the Close To The Edge 5.1 mix. It just seems flat with all of the music being projected with no sense of say the vocals being more forward and backing vocals or instruments being in the background. The gold standard for surround mixes for me would be Beck's Sea Change, Roxy Music's Avalon and Pink Floyd's The Division Bell. When listening to these 5.1 mixes there is an incredible amount of depth which almost envelopes you in a bubble of music. I listened to The Division Bell Blu-ray the other day at insanely loud volumes! I really felt as if I was in a bubble of music where certain sounds and instruments were right around me where other sounds were in the background. Amazing 5.1 mix!

This can also be an issue for me with stereo mixes. Some stereo mixes in my collection have an almost surround effect due to the depth of the mix. Those are the ones I really enjoy no matter what the genre is. Beck's Sea Change MOFI CD has incredible depth with an almost surround sound effect but with just two speakers. As much as I mostly listen to Sea Change in 5.1 the MOFI CD is a nice change every once in awhile.

Bill
Thanks for your detailed reply, Bill - I now better understand your perspective. I agree there are varying degrees of how engineers/bands use/mix the surround channels. I felt the same flatness you describe listening to some of The Doors DVD-A releases, particularly "Roadhouse Blues". I have also heard the depth you describe listening to stereo mixes, such as the Pretenders "You Hurt Me" on their Learning To Crawl SACD.

Another example of a well-done acoustic bubble enveloping the listener can be heard on the Jethro Tull surround remixes. When done well, it's amazing how it can change/enhance the music.

As mentioned, I enjoy the additional detail heard on the remastered hi-res mixes. It appears surround 5.1, while not dead, hasn't gained the traction I was hoping it would when I heard my first introduction in the early 2000's. There are a quite a number of older Pop and Rock classics I would love to hear remixed in hi-res surround.

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post #3167 of 3175 Old 04-16-2019, 09:15 AM
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True, there isn't always something heard in the surround speakers during the entire track - but when there is, I found it to be quite effective.
I think this is one of surround's biggest challenges in that no style of mixing 5.1 is satisfying for everyone, whereas with stereo most people will not complain about the 2.0 mix since there isn't much you can really do with only 2 channels. Personally, I like a more "aggressive" surround mix where there is music consistently emanating from the surround speakers. Not a fan of the more subtle mixes, including S. Wilson's lauded mix of Rush's A Farewell to Kings, where the surrounds may be silent for significant stretches at a time. I also don't like mixes where the surrounds are consistently putting out sound but at low volumes. Of course, and another issue inherent to surround music, YMMV depending on your speaker/AV setup (e.g. satellite vs full size speakers in the rear).

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Andre',

It just seems flat with all of the music being projected with no sense of say the vocals being more forward and backing vocals or instruments being in the background. The gold standard for surround mixes for me would be Beck's Sea Change, Roxy Music's Avalon and Pink Floyd's The Division Bell. When listening to these 5.1 mixes there is an incredible amount of depth which almost envelopes you in a bubble of music. I listened to The Division Bell Blu-ray the other day at insanely loud volumes! I really felt as if I was in a bubble of music where certain sounds and instruments were right around me where other sounds were in the background. Amazing 5.1 mix!
I'm with you on that. I like discrete placement of different instruments all around to get that sense of location and space created by the music. I don't have Sea Change or Division Bell (yet, I guess) but I do have Avalon and other albums that have similar mixes (like DSOTM, Brothers in Arms, etc.), which by no coincidence are among my favorite and most listened to albums. The challenge for the mixing engineer of course is also deciding which instruments/sounds to place in which speaker(s) and sometimes it can result in a dud mix, like Gloria Estefan's Congo which is very discrete but has a very loud and distracting percussion coming out the left surround that ruins it for me.

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post #3168 of 3175 Old 04-17-2019, 09:17 AM
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I think this is one of surround's biggest challenges in that no style of mixing 5.1 is satisfying for everyone, whereas with stereo most people will not complain about the 2.0 mix since there isn't much you can really do with only 2 channels. Personally, I like a more "aggressive" surround mix where there is music consistently emanating from the surround speakers. Not a fan of the more subtle mixes, including S. Wilson's lauded mix of Rush's A Farewell to Kings, where the surrounds may be silent for significant stretches at a time. I also don't like mixes where the surrounds are consistently putting out sound but at low volumes. Of course, and another issue inherent to surround music, YMMV depending on your speaker/AV setup (e.g. satellite vs full size speakers in the rear).



I'm with you on that. I like discrete placement of different instruments all around to get that sense of location and space created by the music. I don't have Sea Change or Division Bell (yet, I guess) but I do have Avalon and other albums that have similar mixes (like DSOTM, Brothers in Arms, etc.), which by no coincidence are among my favorite and most listened to albums. The challenge for the mixing engineer of course is also deciding which instruments/sounds to place in which speaker(s) and sometimes it can result in a dud mix, like Gloria Estefan's Congo which is very discrete but has a very loud and distracting percussion coming out the left surround that ruins it for me.
Like anything creative, there are so many different ways to make an object of art. Talent, experience, taste and technique are uniquely different in creative types. There are only 12 notes in the musical scale (depending on the scale) yet so many songs have been created over the years!
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post #3169 of 3175 Old 04-17-2019, 01:15 PM
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When it comes to surround mixes, I'm personally less interested in ping pong with sounds coming from the four corners of the room, than I am whether it creates a coherent sound field. Not all 5.1 home installations are able to deal with these types of mixes well, while four corners mixes work with just about any home situation. But when I feel the space around the sound, that takes me to an environment that stereo can't match. A coherent sound field also places sound objects in space, not just front back, left right; but within the room. My favorite mixes have elements that cross the room through the middle or move into the middle of the room from the center channel (i.e. Beatles Sgt Pepper, Elton John Rocket Man, Kraftwerk Catalogue). One little bit out of calibration and that all falls apart though. Back when I had smaller rear speakers, I had no idea that spatial sound fields existed. Those mixes sounded flat because my rear channels couldn't keep up to mesh with the fronts properly.

Recently I've been listening to Dolby Surround CDs, and it seems that they are focused more on the soundfield and less on the rear corners. That's fine with me. With orchestral music, that approach can be incredibly effective. And a mix that focuses on placing specific instruments at natural location in space within a defined front soundstage is the most effective of all. The difference between the original mix and the revised mix of Roy Orbison's Black and White Night nails this perfectly. The original mix with the background vocals in the rear is gimmicky and flat compared to the real depth and spread of the revised mix.

Ultimately though, the most important aspect of all in a mix is the balances and hierarchical organization of the sound. A surround mix offers more opportunities for clarifying and defining music (i.e. Allman Bros Filmore and Miles Davis Bitches Brew), but sometimes the extra channels don't define anything, it's just more speakers and more muddle. In those cases, I'll take the stereo mix over the multichannel. It's also difficult to record and mix drums well. A lot of legacy recordings have drums that sound dead and distant. Steven Wilson is skillful at getting drums to sound good. (He's not always as good at mixing vocals though.)

I think the only thing I can say about mixing techniques is "it depends."

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post #3170 of 3175 Old 04-17-2019, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Andre Smith View Post
Like anything creative, there are so many different ways to make an object of art. Talent, experience, taste and technique are uniquely different in creative types. There are only 12 notes in the musical scale (depending on the scale) yet so many songs have been created over the years!
This is partly why 5.1 never caught on. Too much of "YMMV" even for surround fans to agree on what sounds good.

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When it comes to surround mixes, I'm personally less interested in ping pong with sounds coming from the four corners of the room, than I am whether it creates a coherent sound field.
Not sure what you mean by "ping pong" effects. The only album I have with really gimmicky, panning effects is the Flaming Lips "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots", especially in the first track where the drums pan around the speakers like a test tone. It's a shame the 5.1 mix ruined the song.

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post #3171 of 3175 Old 04-17-2019, 04:06 PM
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Not sure what you mean by "ping pong" effects.
I mean a specific instrument isolated in a specific speaker, particularly when that is an acoustic instrument like drums or piano where the ambience around the instrument is just as important as the instrument itself.

Generally, when a stereo album is tracked, many of the elements are recorded in mono... electric guitar all in one patch, vocals all in a different patch, bass in another track. Drums and acoustic piano, and sometimes acoustic guitar are usually recorded in stereo, or multi-miked at various perspectives and directions. Then all of the elements are placed in the soundstage in a spread from left to right with a stereo reverb on individual mono mix elements and across the whole soundstage. This creates a feeling of space around the music, and that space can be adjusted by adjusting the rerverbs, to simulate as if the band is in rooms of varying sizes. This is what creates depth in a stereo recording.

When stuff that has been tracked in mono for a stereo album and then gets remixed for multichannel, sometimes the mixer is lazy and just takes the mono electric guitar and channels it all to the left chanel, and the mono vocals and put them all in the center channel. Each speaker is treated like an individual track on the master. The result is multiple mono sources coming from all directions. This is what I mean by ping pong... Everything isolated in its own speaker dry, with no envelope of space around and between the individual sound elements.

I prefer when the whole sound field (the rectangle formed by left, right, front and back) is treated as a coherent dimensional space with its own unique ambience and feeling of depth. I don't like it as much when each speaker is a different instrument and the only feature is the directionality, not the space around the sound. To me, that is the multichannel equivalent of the old Beatles re-channelled for stereo records where George was all on the left and John was all on the right. I like the feeling of space you get from synthetic room acoustics, phase differences, and reflected sound. That has more depth to me.

But that approach requires careful level and EQ balances between the five speakers to make the space between them mesh properly... just like if you had a stereo system and the speakers were too far apart, or if one speaker was big and the other small... your soundstage would fall apart.

Does that explain what I mean better?

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post #3172 of 3175 Old 04-17-2019, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
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Not sure what you mean by "ping pong" effects.
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I mean a specific instrument isolated in a specific speaker, particularly when that is an acoustic instrument like drums or piano where the ambience around the instrument is just as important as the instrument itself.
Having an instrument such as a piano, drums or guitar isolated to a specific speaker is not the "ping pong" effect. What you are referring to is more of a quality of a quad recording where specific instruments are isolated to and stay in one speaker. The "ping pong" effect is when a specific instrument or instruments move from speaker to speaker in a right to left, front to rear direction or both.

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post #3173 of 3175 Old 04-17-2019, 05:12 PM
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Here are some multichannel music files for download, including a channel test.

https://www.lynnemusic.com/surround.html

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post #3174 of 3175 Old Yesterday, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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David Gilmour - Rattle That Lock on blu ray in 5.1
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post #3175 of 3175 Old Yesterday, 09:16 PM
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When I was younger, I hated James Taylor, his voice grated on me. Over the years, I grew to like his hits, anyway, in spite of myself, and his voice doesn't bother me anymore.

Last edited by drh3b; Yesterday at 09:19 PM.
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