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post #31 of 60 Old 03-27-2020, 01:49 AM
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There was probably an engineer doing the overall mix, and then Parsons came in at the end and made his changes to it. The boost helps a lot, more so with Eye in the Sky than Poe. The things that benefit are the presence of the vocals and snare drums. Without the boost it sounds very soft.
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post #32 of 60 Old 03-27-2020, 06:18 AM
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There was probably an engineer doing the overall mix, and then Parsons came in at the end and made his changes to it. The boost helps a lot, more so with Eye in the Sky than Poe. The things that benefit are the presence of the vocals and snare drums. Without the boost it sounds very soft.
So an engineer does the overall 5.1 mix then Alan Parsons comes in and turns down the center channel content? I would think that any engineer working with Alan Parsons would be familiar with his preference for minimal to no use of the center channel. That is assuming that Alan Parsons has another engineer doing the overall mix.

As posted earlier I found that both the Tales Of Mystery And Imagination and Eye In The Sky multi-channel mixes have minimal center channel content. It's mostly ambient sound with hardly any distinct vocal or musical content. I also raised the center channel 6dB on several tracks when playing Eye In The Sky. I hardly heard any difference at all. So I find it odd that when some turn up the center channel volume they find it sounds better overall.

It would be interesting to see the thoughts of all that own these two Blu-rays. With that how many feel the need to raise the center channel volume level and those that do not. It would also be interesting to see how each individual system is setup. That being the front LCR speakers. Specifically how far apart ones left and right front speakers are and the distance to the MLP. If ones speakers are 10' to 12' apart and they sit 6' to 8' feet from the LCR speakers. That could be an issue getting center fill from a 5.1 mix with minimal center channel content. Could also be an issue with quad surround mixes as well.

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post #33 of 60 Old 03-27-2020, 12:04 PM
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Most of the time, artists get a final approval pass on reissues. They aren't involved all the way through. The center channel is there, it's just attenuated.
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post #34 of 60 Old 03-27-2020, 04:31 PM
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So an engineer does the overall 5.1 mix then Alan Parsons comes in and turns down the center channel content? I would think that any engineer working with Alan Parsons would be familiar with his preference for minimal to no use of the center channel. That is assuming that Alan Parsons has another engineer doing the overall mix.

As posted earlier I found that both the Tales Of Mystery And Imagination and Eye In The Sky multi-channel mixes have minimal center channel content. It's mostly ambient sound with hardly any distinct vocal or musical content. I also raised the center channel 6dB on several tracks when playing Eye In The Sky. I hardly heard any difference at all. So I find it odd that when some turn up the center channel volume they find it sounds better overall.

It would be interesting to see the thoughts of all that own these two Blu-rays. With that how many feel the need to raise the center channel volume level and those that do not. It would also be interesting to see how each individual system is setup. That being the front LCR speakers. Specifically how far apart ones left and right front speakers are and the distance to the MLP. If ones speakers are 10' to 12' apart and they sit 6' to 8' feet from the LCR speakers. That could be an issue getting center fill from a 5.1 mix with minimal center channel content. Could also be an issue with quad surround mixes as well.

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This is my setup. I doubt anyone but Alan did the mix. I recall seeing a video of him at Capitol Records mixing EITS. He can do what he wants. It's his baby after all now that Eric Woolfson is gone. I just don't see why he would bother to put anything at all in the Center if he was going to lower the level to inaudibility. Maybe they wanted to advertise it as a 5.1 Release instead of 4.1

I have 9 ft between L + R centers. 4.5 ft from center of Center speaker to L + R. I sit centered 9 ft away. I have 4 Cambridge Soundworks S300's for Surround and Surround Backs. I have two Polks for Heights. The L + R speakers are Triangle Stratus Naia's, the center is a Triangle Stratus Leo Major. I have to assume that the lack of a wall next to the right speaker is the source of my problem. The high ceiling doesn't help either.

I now have a Denon 4400H instead of an Onkyo 5007. A Oppo 203 instead of 83. Even my TV is now an LG 65" OLED. But the speakers are the same.
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post #35 of 60 Old 03-28-2020, 06:49 AM
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Most of the time, artists get a final approval pass on reissues. They aren't involved all the way through. The center channel is there, it's just attenuated.
Alan Parsons is more than just an "artist". You do know that right? The same can be said for Steven Wilson. Do you think there is another engineer doing the 5.1 mixes for Steven Wilson's then he tweaks what someone else did? I highly doubt it.

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post #36 of 60 Old 03-29-2020, 08:46 AM
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I have Eye in the Sky, I Robot, and Turn of a Friendly Card in 24/192 HDAD. Has anyone compared the blu-ray recordings to these? Thx
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post #37 of 60 Old 03-29-2020, 11:04 AM
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I have Eye in the Sky, I Robot, and Turn of a Friendly Card in 24/192 HDAD. Has anyone compared the blu-ray recordings to these? Thx
I have all of the APP HDADs and have not compared the stereo mixes of the Blu-rays to them. Only have listened to the multi-channel mixes of the Blu-rays. I did compare the I Robot HDAD to the MOFI SACD and prefer the SACD. The I Robot SACD is a lot cheaper than the HDAD.

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post #38 of 60 Old 03-29-2020, 11:23 AM
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I might have to buy the SACD of I Robot. I have the MOFI UDCD 505 Supertramp Crime of the Century and was very impressed with the Blu-Ray version. I was able to do a real time comparison with the MOFI on my Denon 3930CI via Denon Link vs. the HDMI on the Oppo 203 with a Clones Audio LPS. The Blu-Ray version definitely was better to my ears. Agree with you on the HDAD prices in the marketplace. Glad I bought mine years ago. Probably going to sell some of these older formats as they are replaced with BR Audio while the price is still high. Thx

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post #39 of 60 Old 03-29-2020, 03:26 PM
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I find this interesting. I listened to Tales Of Mystery And Imagination earlier today. I'm listening to Eye In The Sky now and don't find any need to boost the center channel volume at all. I'm experiencing an immersive SQ with the vocals dead center and at a level that's just right. I just checked the output of the center channel during the track Gemini. There is minimal ambient sound from the center channel. So I don't understand how raising the center channel 6dB can make much of a difference. I just tried raising the center channel volume 6dB during Silence and I and hardly noticed any difference at all. Maybe it's system dependent.

Bill
After doing some investigation, I concur with your post. No reason to boost the center channel for some (can't speak for all) of Parson's 5.1 mixes. In fact, you would have to boost the center channel significantly to match the FL and FR channels.

Here's a quote from Alan Parson's from an interview in Sound & Vision titled Alan Parsons on 5.1 Music Mixing, Live and Studio:

The consumer pays for his six speakers, he might as well hear them. [laughs] I don't use the center channel very much. I have a firm belief that the center channel has its roots in the cinema, not modern music. If you have a good home system, the center channel is pretty redundant. People tend to put vocals in it, and if you take it away, you've got an instant karaoke mix. You can either isolate it or remove it - neither of which is very desirable.

Source: https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-studio-page-3

Although I have a 5.1.4 setup, my system has excellent phantom center channel imaging whether I'm playing back stereo or quad. While listening to Parson's 5.1 Eye In The Sky (I don't have Tales Of Mystery And Imagination, I put my ear up to the center channel speaker and I could hear the the vocals although they were significantly attenuated compared to the FL and FR speakers.


I did some instrumentation and eyeball analysis of Parson's 5.1 Eye In The Sky.

I checked all the tracks and the center channel is definitely there but attenuated around 12dB to 15dB depending on the track. The center channel appears to track the FL and FR channels. Here is quick sample which seems to be consistent with the entire album:

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post #40 of 60 Old 03-29-2020, 04:50 PM
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After doing some investigation, I concur with your post. No reason to boost the center channel for some (can't speak for all) of Parson's 5.1 mixes. In fact, you would have to boost the center channel significantly to match the FL and FR channels.

Here's a quote from Alan Parson's from an interview in Sound & Vision titled Alan Parsons on 5.1 Music Mixing, Live and Studio:

The consumer pays for his six speakers, he might as well hear them. [laughs] I don't use the center channel very much. I have a firm belief that the center channel has its roots in the cinema, not modern music. If you have a good home system, the center channel is pretty redundant. People tend to put vocals in it, and if you take it away, you've got an instant karaoke mix. You can either isolate it or remove it - neither of which is very desirable.

Source: https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-studio-page-3

Although I have a 5.1.4 setup, my system has excellent phantom center channel imaging whether I'm playing back stereo or quad. While listening to Parson's 5.1 Eye In The Sky (I don't have Tales Of Mystery And Imagination, I put my ear up to the center channel speaker and I could hear the the vocals although they were significantly attenuated compared to the FL and FR speakers.


I did some instrumentation and eyeball analysis of Parson's 5.1 Eye In The Sky.

I checked all the tracks and the center channel is definitely there but attenuated around 12dB to 15dB depending on the track. The center channel appears to track the FL and FR channels. Here is quick sample which seems to be consistent with the entire album:

https://youtu.be/GkeVGQ-CndI

Which begs the question of why bother putting anything there if it's 12 to 15dB down?
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post #41 of 60 Old 03-29-2020, 05:07 PM
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Which begs the question of why bother putting anything there if it's 12 to 15dB down?
Quoting Alan Parsons: The consumer pays for his six speakers, he might as well hear them. [laughs]

I suppose he's a funny guy.

Tangential to this, years ago he mixed a 4.1 unreleased version of DSOTM which is in the wild. Some wondered/questioned why he added an LFE track.

To directly answer your question, I have no idea. All I know is his mixes sound really good on my system. I prefer the vocals not be exclusively out of the center channel speaker but spread across the FL and FR.
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post #42 of 60 Old 03-29-2020, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
Quoting Alan Parsons: The consumer pays for his six speakers, he might as well hear them. [laughs]

I suppose he's a funny guy.

Tangential to this, years ago he mixed a 4.1 unreleased version of DSOTM which is in the wild. Some wondered/questioned why he added an LFE track.

To directly answer your question, I have no idea. All I know is his mixes sound really good on my system. I prefer the vocals not be exclusively out of the center channel speaker but spread across the FL and FR.

Probably just marketing. They wanted to advertise 5.1 to the masses.
In my room the center boost makes me a happy camper so no problem.
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post #43 of 60 Old 03-30-2020, 12:40 PM
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The center channel is important to anchor the vocals and drums in the middle. It's more important with natural sounding vocals and a fixed position band than it is with hippie dippy sounds flying all over the room kind of mixes. The Elton John multichannel mixes, especially the pre-Yellow Brick Road ones, are a model for this kind of mix. Every instrument is fixed in a really firm placement in the soundstage.

Also, the distance between the mains make a big difference too. For stereo it's recommended to not have more than 8 feet or so between the left and right channel. This allows for the speakers to mesh in the middle and form a phantom center. But my personal listening room doubles as a screening room with a ten foot screen. My mains are about 15 feet apart. That center channel is necessary, both for dialogue behind the screen in movies and for anchoring the center with multichannel recordings. The advantage of a large room like this is that my soundstage is scaled to real size... meaning that if the instruments are placed like the Elton John recordings, it feels like a human scale as if the performers were in front of me in a small club. By adjusting the ambience through DSPs, I can synthesize whatever kind of venue I want, all the way up to a concert hall sound. It isn't like a small soundstage a few feet in front of me, it is human sized and big, which is important to make sure the sound covers the full width and height of the projection screen. Smaller systems would be more forgiving of missing a center channel than mine would. I would guess that quad at normal volumes probably sounds better in a smaller configuration than one like mine. A bedroom sized room would probably be perfect for quad.

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I checked all the tracks and the center channel is definitely there but attenuated around 12dB to 15dB depending on the track. The center channel appears to track the FL and FR channels.
The center channel generally isn't equal level with the mains. Neither are the rears. The job of the center speaker is to just fill in where the phantom center drops off from the mains, so some of the sound intended for the center comes from the mains as well. I find Eye In The Sky sounds better with a +6dB boost to the middle. I can't remember what I used with the Poe disc. It's been a while since I heard it, but I know the orchestral bit on the beginning of the second side sounds better with a boost. When the vocals aren't anchored in the center, or when there is heavy stereo vocal phase processing, the center doesn't matter as much as long as your mains aren't more than 8 feet or so apart. Phantom center will work fine in a smaller setup like that.

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post #44 of 60 Old 03-30-2020, 02:46 PM
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Smaller systems would be more forgiving of missing a center channel than mine would. I would guess that quad at normal volumes probably sounds better in a smaller configuration than one like mine. A bedroom sized room would probably be perfect for quad.
The size of ones room isn't relative in regard to the spacing of the left and right front speakers. One could have a room 20' to 24' wide and have their speakers 8' apart and still have a great sound stage for quad mixes. The fact that your speakers are 15' apart is one of the biggest reasons why quad recordings or mixes like those from Alan Parsons do not sound good. I'm just a "hobbyist" in this with no expertise in the mixing of music and I can easily grasp that fact. The fact that you've posted countless times over the years about many multi-channel mixes not sounding good is relative to the location of your speakers. It's not due to the way many of these titles are mixed. No wonder you don't like quad mixes. If my speakers were 15' apart and sitting 7'-8' as I do quad mixes wouldn't sound very good either.
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The center channel generally isn't equal level with the mains.
I'm listening to Steely Dan's Gaucho SACD and the vocals and other center channel content are the same volume as the main speakers. Many if not all of Elliot Scheiner's 5.1 mixes have prominent use the center channel. Earlier today I listened to Beck's Sea Change SACD which is another Elliot Scheiner 5.1 mix. That title also has content in the center channel at the same volume as the mains. I have many 5.1 mixes that are similar to the mixes by Elliot Scheiner. So your assertion that center channel volume is "generally" not equal to the mains in 5.1 mixes is incorrect IMO.

*edit: Just of curiosity I put on Elton John's S/T SACD. The vocals in "Your Song" are louder in the center than with the mains. The same for the next song "I Need You To Turn To". You have posted many times about the Elton John 5.1 mixes. I would have thought you would have noticed that the vocals are louder in the center than the mains. I guess not.

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post #45 of 60 Old 03-30-2020, 04:21 PM
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The size of ones room isn't relative in regard to the spacing of the left and right front speakers. One could have a room 20' to 24' wide and have their speakers 8' apart and still have a great sound stage for quad mixes. The fact that your speakers are 15' apart is one of the biggest reasons why quad recordings or mixes like those from Alan Parsons do not sound good. I'm just a "hobbyist" in this with no expertise in the mixing of music and I can easily grasp that fact. The fact that you've posted countless times over the years about many multi-channel mixes not sounding good is relative to the location of your speakers. It's not due to the way many of these titles are mixed. No wonder you don't like quad mixes. If my speakers were 15' apart and sitting 7'-8' as I do quad mixes wouldn't sound very good either.

I'm listening to Steely Dan's Gaucho SACD and the vocals and other center channel content are the same volume as the main speakers. Many if not all of Elliot Scheiner's 5.1 mixes have prominent use the center channel. Earlier today I listened to Beck's Sea Change SACD which is another Elliot Scheiner 5.1 mix. That title also has content in the center channel at the same volume as the mains. I have many 5.1 mixes that are similar to the mixes by Elliot Scheiner. So your assertion that center channel volume is "generally" not equal to the mains in 5.1 mixes is incorrect IMO.

*edit: Just of curiosity I put on Elton John's S/T SACD. The vocals in "Your Song" are louder in the center than with the mains. The same for the next song "I Need You To Turn To". You have posted many times about the Elton John 5.1 mixes. I would have thought you would have noticed that the vocals are louder in the center than the mains. I guess not.

Bill
My FL and FR speakers are 7'10" apart from the center of the tweeters with the center Speaker exactly midway. Lucky me!

The quad mix from the Pink Floyd's Immersion Box Sets of DSOTM and WYWH are two of my all time favorite mixes.

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post #46 of 60 Old 03-30-2020, 04:41 PM
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My FL and FR speakers are 7'10" apart from the center of the tweeters with the center Speaker exactly midway. Lucky me!

The quad mix from the Pink Floyd's Immersion Box Sets of DSOTM and WYWH are two of my all time favorite mixes.
Nice! My left and right front speakers are 7' apart so I'm a lottery winner too.

The DSOTM and WYWH quad mixes are excellent. But I like the 5.1 mixes as well.

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post #47 of 60 Old 03-30-2020, 06:35 PM
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My setup does require a larger room than normal because this isn't a stereo on one wall of a living room- it's a dedicated screening room. I have a 100 inch projection screen and that means everything has to scale up to match that. The width between the mains is directly related to the seating distance. My seating distance is dictated by the size of my screen- it's 100 inches wide and that makes my optimal viewing distance about 14 feet (according to SMPTE). With a distance of 14 feet from the center speaker, that makes the optimal triangle for music listening about 16 feet on each side. That is a safe distance between the three front speakers because that puts them 8 feet apart, which isn't too far apart to mesh properly. This doesn't work well for stereo, but I use Yamaha's stereo to 7.1 DSP to pull a center channel out of stereo tracks and that corrects it. It definitely isn't optimal for Quad. That would require freestanding speakers in my particular room. Quad works better in smaller rooms where the speakers aren't as far apart (around 8 feet between each speaker). If I wanted to accommodate quad, I would be working with 64 square feet instead of a 360 square foot room, I would need a screen 1/4 the size of my current one, and I would have to sit about 6 feet away. I'm not willing to sacrifice my big screen projection system for an obsolete audio format.

The advantage to all this is that my front soundstage is about 18 feet across with complete accuracy from left to right. It fills the whole screen with sound in movies, and with music the scale of the sound is what you would hear in a concert venue in the best seat in the house. The rears are powerful enough to mesh with the front to create a huge ambience that is totally immersive. It would be even better with Atmos speakers, but in my room, it would be hard to implement, so I live with 5.1 (for now).

The center channel is always quieter overall than the mains because you are sitting closer to it. The reason that the vocals on Elton John are louder in the center is because that is where the vocals reside. The center is where most vocals are anchored in most mixes since the beginning of stereo. Mono sound elements that are exactly the same between the two channels reside in the phantom center in stereo mixes. For a multichannel mix, you would place it in the center with some spill to left and right to widen it a bit.

You'll find that a lot of quad mixes place sound elements in the corners, because they don't know how far apart the user is going to place the four speakers. Even back in the day, implementation of quad in the home was funky. It's very hard to have a proper quad system without freestanding speakers in the middle of the room. It doesn't work well up against a wall on one side, or with a much greater distance between back and front than left to right. 5.1 is more forgiving with that stuff and it scales larger easier than quad does. You could probably use a computer to synthesize center channels for all four sides and make it bigger. I wonder if anyone has done that?

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post #48 of 60 Old 03-31-2020, 06:07 AM
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The center channel is always quieter overall than the mains because you are sitting closer to it. The reason that the vocals on Elton John are louder in the center is because that is where the vocals reside.
Huh ? You do understand that you just totally contradicted yourself, right. The center channel is not ALWAYS quieter especially with the Elton John 5.1 mixes I listened to yesterday. If one is sitting closer to their center then the volume would be LOUDER when listening to Elton John multi-channel mixes. You talk in absolutes when you say ALWAYS which is totally wrong in regard to the volume of the center channel in 5.1 mixes. There are no absolutes because not every engineer does 5.1 mixes the same. Alan Parsons uses the center channel sparingly with muted volume. The volume of the center channel with the Elliot Scheiner 5.1 mixes that I listened to yesterday is much more prominent with louder volume. Then the volume was even louder in the center channel with the Elton John 5.1 mixes. I just provided three actual examples that indicate your ALWAYS claim is false.

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You'll find that a lot of quad mixes place sound elements in the corners, because they don't know how far apart the user is going to place the four speakers.
Huh again ? Quad mixes place sound in four separate speakers to create an illusion of one being in the center of the music. I don't think they were mixed that way because the engineers didn't know how far apart people were going to place their speakers. Do you have any factual information that backs up your claim?

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Even back in the day, implementation of quad in the home was funky. It's very hard to have a proper quad system without freestanding speakers in the middle of the room. It doesn't work well up against a wall on one side, or with a much greater distance between back and front than left to right.
You might want to read the link below from Wikipedia. In the link it states "4.0 surround sound uses four channels in which speakers are positioned at the four corners of the listening space, reproducing signals that are (wholly or in part) independent of one another".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadraphonic_sound

I just did a quick search on the proper positioning of speakers in a 4.0 quad system. Saw some varying opinions but never saw a single one that stated the speakers should be placed in the "middle of the room".

My speaker setup has the left and right front speakers 7' apart and 13" off the front wall. The left and right surround speakers are 10' apart and less than 6" off the back wall. The MLP is 7 1/2' from the front speakers and 5' from the rear speakers. The distances were measured at an angle to each speaker. The MLP is positioned is dead center between all of the speakers and located closer to the rear speakers than the front. The room is open on the right side with a closer boundary wall to the left. I find that when listening to quad mixes it sounds excellent with an immersive and "in the center of the music" effect. No speakers in the middle of the room here .

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post #49 of 60 Old 03-31-2020, 11:56 AM
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You're just being argumentative again. You'd think I killed your dog or something. If anyone else has any comments, I'm all ears.
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You're just being argumentative again. You'd think I killed your dog or something. If anyone else has any comments, I'm all ears.
Not being argumentative at all. Just showing the absolutes that you claim as facts are in fact not valid. It's really that simple. I don't have a dog by the way .

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Not being argumentative at all. Just showing the absolutes that you claim as facts are in fact not valid. It's really that simple. I don't have a dog by the way .

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Bill,

Guilty as charged .

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I've asked him multiple times to just ignore me. Grudges die hard I guess. I get along fine with everyone else and enjoy interacting with the rest of this group.

In an effort to change the subject and dispel the unnecessary anger, here is a picture of my dog.

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The center channel is important to anchor the vocals and drums in the middle. It's more important with natural sounding vocals and a fixed position band than it is with hippie dippy sounds flying all over the room kind of mixes. The Elton John multichannel mixes, especially the pre-Yellow Brick Road ones, are a model for this kind of mix. Every instrument is fixed in a really firm placement in the soundstage.
I also like when vocals AND drums (or bass) come out of the center channel. I like the EJ mixes overall, but I've never been a fan of only having vocals out of the center channel, just seems like a wasted opportunity for a more "discrete" mix. I know most people here love the EJ mixes so I know I'm in the minority about that. My general ideal mix includes vocals and drums out the center. Of course, it's all dependent on the equipment setup, where you are sitting in that space, the acoustics of the room, etc., so a very much a "YMMV" situation.

About this AAP album mix though, what comes out of the center channel that is so attenuated? Nothing terribly discrete I imagine, just some bleeding from the side channels?

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Generally with APP albums, if you boost the center, it basically pulls up the phantom center. There isn't a lot of discrete sounds in the middle. However, if you mains are more than 8 feet apart, it can be a vary good idea to boost the center channel. If you have a smaller system, it won't really be necessary because you can run with stereo up front with a phantom center.

Steven Wilson generally puts the drums and vocals basically centered. That can make it easy to balance levels because the punch and presence is primarily in the center. The reverberation is generally in the rear, and the lead instruments are usually hard left or hard right.

There is one very interesting effect in one of the Elton John songs... The guitar solo starts in the center channel and slowly pots back to the rears. If your front and rear channels are well balanced, this has the effect of the guitarist starting his solo against the far wall and walking to the middle of the room by the end of it. Few multichannel mixes pair front and rear directly like that, because most systems are better balanced left to right than they are front to back.

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post #56 of 60 Old 04-04-2020, 04:31 AM
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There is one very interesting effect in one of the Elton John songs... The guitar solo starts in the center channel and slowly pots back to the rears. If your front and rear channels are well balanced, this has the effect of the guitarist starting his solo against the far wall and walking to the middle of the room by the end of it. Few multichannel mixes pair front and rear directly like that, because most systems are better balanced left to right than they are front to back.
Interesting. I've only noticed front/back pans (IIRC) in Jeff Beck surround albums, but of course his albums (often 4.0) have unusual mixes, like lead guitar often coming out of the surrounds exclusively.

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post #57 of 60 Old 04-04-2020, 01:59 PM
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There is one very interesting effect in one of the Elton John songs... The guitar solo starts in the center channel and slowly pots back to the rears. If your front and rear channels are well balanced, this has the effect of the guitarist starting his solo against the far wall and walking to the middle of the room by the end of it. Few multichannel mixes pair front and rear directly like that, because most systems are better balanced left to right than they are front to back.
Which Elton John song are you referring to?

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I have all of the APP HDADs and have not compared the stereo mixes of the Blu-rays to them. Only have listened to the multi-channel mixes of the Blu-rays. I did compare the I Robot HDAD to the MOFI SACD and prefer the SACD. The I Robot SACD is a lot cheaper than the HDAD.

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I just received today the Ammonia Avenue Blu-Ray audio disc, great album and recording. While I was cranking APP, I took time to compare the stereo mixes of the I Robot SACD & HDAD. Both sound about equal to me even when I switched players (Denon 3930CI vs. Oppo 203 with LPS upgrade). Just as I have found before, the Oppo via HDMI is much brighter than the Denon via Denon Link. Both sound great to me. AVR Denon 4306 & Klipsch RF-35 7.1 system FYI.
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post #59 of 60 Old 04-18-2020, 02:43 PM
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The Oppo probably has a slightly higher output level. Line level varies from model to model.
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post #60 of 60 Old 04-24-2020, 02:24 PM
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APP Tales.....

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The Oppo probably has a slightly higher output level. Line level varies from model to model.
I agree, after back to back and even swapping players for non-Blu Ray discs as the 3930CI is not Blu Ray.

Just received this BR Audio disc today. Combined with a Chimay Grande Reserve makes for some mighty fine listening

Can't wait for Turn of a Friendly Card & I Robot.

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