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post #1 of 54 Old 08-06-2017, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Question SACD Newb question...

If I use a Sony DVP-NS755V player with SACDs, how do I feed my AV amp? Will the Optical or Coaxial Out from the player carry the 5.1 signal, or do I have to somehow use the six separate Surround Out connections?
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post #2 of 54 Old 08-06-2017, 09:42 AM
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SACD Newb question...

Yes they will coax or optical. The only thing they won't carry is any HD signals from sources


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post #3 of 54 Old 08-06-2017, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prof55 View Post
If I use a Sony DVP-NS755V player with SACDs, how do I feed my AV amp? Will the Optical or Coaxial Out from the player carry the 5.1 signal, or do I have to somehow use the six separate Surround Out connections?
SPDIF is banned from carrying any signals from SACD (by license).
Pretty sure this is an older DVD player that will only output 5.1 from SACD via the analog outs. And if memory serves me right its a down-res audio. IOW the player converts to LPCM then down-res to 44Hz, then D-A conversion to the analog outs. You'll need to consult the manual and or look up some of the old threads on those models.
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post #4 of 54 Old 08-06-2017, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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So that's one "yes" and one "no" for the optical/coax outputs working in 5.1, lol. I read the owners manual, I'm inclined to agree that all six outputs have to be used but it is rather cryptic. I think I'll give up on this project, I really only want one particular SACD!
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post #5 of 54 Old 08-06-2017, 03:08 PM
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See pg28 in Manual [also pg33] re Optical/Coax Digital Audio Jacks: "Super Audio CD audio signals are not output from the digital jack".
https://docs.sony.com/release/dvpns755v.pdf

If the Sony CONVERTED SACD's DSD UNCOMPRESSED Format to DD5.1 Compressed Format [or Stereo Uncompressed PCM Format] for output via this jack they "Should" have SAID SO HERE.....so it's VERY UNLIKELY that it performs any Downconversion function....but you might want to double-check Sony DVD Player Threads....

What you CAN do (other than buying new AVR) would be to get fol. inexpensive Analog STEREO (i.e. White/Red L/R RCA Jacks ONLY) to Optical [PCM STEREO] Converter...which would REMAIN UNCOMPRESSED and hence extremely minimal quality loss...except for the "Missing Center Channel" problem mentioned below:
https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Optic.../dp/B0055EBH5S [48k or 196k Samples/Sec....but NOT 96k]
https://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-Analog.../dp/B005F20756 [48k Samples/Sec]
https://www.amazon.com/Musou-Digital.../dp/B01HGHNCMW [48k Samples/Sec]

According to the Sony's Manual, there are NO CONTROLS for an SACD Disc to DownMix from SURROUND to STEREO Analog Outputs. Hence listening to JUST LF and RF (White/Red) Output Jacks may be MISSING the Center Channel information on some Surround Tracks (some will be much worse than others, depending on how it was mixed). OTOH, there are some SACD Discs which contain BOTH Stereo DSD and Surround DSD Tracks so you can select which you want to hear....although this is fairly rare.

And HYBRID SACD Discs include both DSD and CD-Standard Layers, which means they can play the CD-Quality Stereo Track on ANY CD Player....incl. your Sony....although NOT at the significantly higher SACD Quality, nor in Discrete Surround Sound.

Although I could find Multi-Channel to Stereo Downmixers for HDMI Outputs and computer files [e.g. after ripping SACD], I was surprised that I could NOT find a simple little BOX that would perform a Conversion from [5.1] Analog RCA Surround Inputs to [2] Analog STEREO Downmix [2] Outputs. If you (or someone you know) has even minimal circuit construction skills, all you need is a Dual Op-Amp, each performing the fol. summing operation, where LFE and LS/LR are OPTIONAL...or perhaps ADJUSTABLE:
Lo = LF + 0.707* C + 0.707*LS + 0.707*LFE
Ro = RF + 0.707* C + 0.707*RS + 0.707*LFE

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post #6 of 54 Old 08-06-2017, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't own the Sony player yet, I'm investigating options to play this disc in 5.1: The Carpenters Singles 1969-1981

Yes, I'm a big fan of the Carpenters!

Last edited by prof55; 08-07-2017 at 01:50 PM. Reason: sp
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post #7 of 54 Old 08-06-2017, 04:07 PM
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In addition to the DSD Surround Tracks, that CARPENTER's Disk ALSO has DSD Stereo Tracks [which would be fully compatible with the above recommended Converter].....and a [somewhat lower Quality] "HYBRID" CD LAYER which will play on ANY CD Player, incl. your Sony....I use this feature all the time to play "SACD" discs in my car, which (of course) isn't capable of playing the SACD Layer(s).

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Sorry I misread, yes SACD won't do it via coax


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post #9 of 54 Old 08-07-2017, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prof55 View Post
I don't own the Sony player yet, I'm investigating options to play this disc in 5.1: Thc Carpenters Singles 1969-1981

Yes, I'm a big fan of the Carpenters!
Its hard to recommend buying any player for a single disc's enjoyment. Given the rather underwhelming performance of the older DACs in those players, its also hard to recommend using them at all. And I'm pretty sure those Sony units also down-res before DAC.

You should go for a player that offers DSD or at least high-res LPCM over HDMI. The early Oppo DVD players do all of that. There are many of them for sale on eBay, and of course Oppo will still support them as much as possible. They offer both HDMI and analog output. I assume you have a more recent AVR that supports high res HDMI input. Also assume that you actually want to hear the higher quality audio.
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post #10 of 54 Old 08-07-2017, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
Its hard to recommend buying any player for a single disc's enjoyment. Given the rather underwhelming performance of the older DACs in those players, its also hard to recommend using them at all. And I'm pretty sure those Sony units also down-res before DAC.

You should go for a player that offers DSD or at least high-res LPCM over HDMI. The early Oppo DVD players do all of that. There are many of them for sale on eBay, and of course Oppo will still support them as much as possible. They offer both HDMI and analog output. I assume you have a more recent AVR that supports high res HDMI input. Also assume that you actually want to hear the higher quality audio.
Not sure if you need/want a 4K bluray player, but the Sony X800 handles every SACD / 5.1 disc I've thrown at it, output over HDMI to my AVR. And streams, and plays 4K, and is relatively inexpensive... That Carpenters disc in 5.1 is great, by the way!
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Not sure if you need/want a 4K bluray player, but the Sony X800 handles every SACD / 5.1 disc I've thrown at it, output over HDMI to my AVR. And streams, and plays 4K, and is relatively inexpensive... That Carpenters disc in 5.1 is great, by the way!
Yes, I can use 4K too, so this looks like an excellent choice. The specs are a bit ambiguous regarding SACD though:

Supported Media: SA-CD (SA-CD/CD) Playback: Yes


I'm not sure this means "actually decodes 5.1 SACD" or "merely plays disc".

Can you confirm that this player outputs actual 5.1 via HDMI?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prof55 View Post
Yes, I can use 4K too, so this looks like an excellent choice. The specs are a bit ambiguous regarding SACD though:

Supported Media: SA-CD (SA-CD/CD) Playback: Yes

I'm not sure this means "actually decodes 5.1 SACD" or "merely plays disc".

Can you confirm that this player outputs actual 5.1 via HDMI?
Yes, it does - Because of this player I now have a much-too-large collection of SACD, 5.1, DTS surround, bluray surround discs - it plays *everything* and absolutely outputs 5.1 via HDMI
Happy to answer any questions about this.
Looks like this player is now $268 new everywhere, perhaps cheaper on Ebay.
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post #13 of 54 Old 08-07-2017, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prof55 View Post
Yes, I can use 4K too, so this looks like an excellent choice. The specs are a bit ambiguous regarding SACD though:

Supported Media: SA-CD (SA-CD/CD) Playback: Yes


I'm not sure this means "actually decodes 5.1 SACD" or "merely plays disc".

Can you confirm that this player outputs actual 5.1 via HDMI?
Probably you should confirm that your processor/AVR is able to accept DSD or whatever over HDMI. Ideally there isn't any "decoding" done in the player at all.
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post #14 of 54 Old 08-07-2017, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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My AVR (Yamaha RVX383) says "DSD 2-ch to 6-ch" and "PCM 2-ch to 8-ch", along with all the Dolby and DTS options in the "HDMI Audio Format" specs, so it looks like all should be well.

Last edited by prof55; 08-07-2017 at 11:07 AM. Reason: wrong model number!
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Quote:
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My AVR (Yamaha RVX393) says "DSD 2-ch to 6-ch" and "PCM 2-ch to 8-ch", along with all the Dolby and DTS options in the "HDMI Audio Format" specs, so it looks like all should be well.
Are you sure about that model number? The RX-V383 will get you there, the V393 is an older pre-HDMI model that won't.
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post #16 of 54 Old 08-07-2017, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Ooops, I mis-typed. It is in fact an RVX383. Corrected!

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post #17 of 54 Old 08-07-2017, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prof55 View Post
I don't own the Sony player yet, I'm investigating options to play this disc in 5.1: Thc Carpenters Singles 1969-1981

Yes, I'm a big fan of the Carpenters!
Better hang onto that SACD.....the master tapes for those multi-channel tracks were destroyed in a fire at the Universal Music vault. This was straight from Richard Carpenter. The SACD is the only place to find those multi-channel tracks.

You can only access the DSD data (stereo or multi-channel) on the Sony DVP-NS755V from the analog outputs. The NS755V was likely to have a customized DAC made by Burr-Brown that does DSD directly to analog. That was the case with the much-heralded NS500V that came out at the same time.
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Better hang onto that SACD.....the master tapes for those multi-channel tracks were destroyed in a fire at the Universal Music vault. This was straight from Richard Carpenter. The SACD is the only place to find those multi-channel tracks.
And if you do decide to sell it, those go for a lot on ebay, don't give it away. I actually got mine at regular price years ago, but I recently started buying multi channel music again, and the price of some SACD, and the Carpenters are one made me

Spoiler!
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post #19 of 54 Old 08-08-2017, 04:26 PM
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Since the Sony DVP-NS755 (etal) Operating Manual says it implements BASS MANAGEMENT for the LFE Channel [which requires some Audio FILTERS....and does NOT indicate that this feature does NOT apply to the Discrete 5.1 Analog Outputs (6 RCA Jacks), I would conclude that the reconstituted SACD Analog Waveform has a VERY High Frequency Filter to smooth out the 1-Bit DAC Waveform, which is then SAMPLED to generate PCM Samples for the Crossover Filters (likely at [email protected] KHz, the highest supported by the DSP):
https://www.manualslib.com/download/...vp-Ns755v.html [Also see link to FREE Service Manual]
Unfortunately, I was unable to locate Spec Sheets for the Sony's [perhaps Proprietary???] DSP and D/A Converter Chips....but I did find fol. (see pg 23+), which provides at least SOME description of the Audio Circuitry:
http://www.acousticpsychos.com/Files...ny_dvdtech.pdf [Operating Manual, also see link to FREE Service Manual.]

=================================================
OTOH: My first SACD/DVD-A/DVD Player, the Pioneer DV-563a, does NOT have any BASS MANAGEMENT function (that's properly left for the AVR to do...OR NOT to do when in DIRECT mode, bypassing it's DSP)....it ONLY allows user to adjust Speaker Distance (Delay) and Relative LEVELS (easily done without PCM Sampling). Looking at the DV-563a's FREE Service Manual, I see that the Laser Disk Reader sends signals to two chips IC701 for PCM Sampling and IC601 for SACD 5.1 Signal Conversion, which then go thru IC201 [DSD1791 for LF/RF], IC301 [DSD1702 for LS/RS] and IC401 [DSD1702 for Ctr/LFE] D/A Converters which also have programmable FILTERS for the Analog Waveform. [Block Diagrams never tell the whole story....but it APPEARS that PCM is being converted to very high quality DSD waveform ("Delta-Sigma Modulator") prior to using a COMMON Output Filter.....]

SACD's Digital Format contains info for all 5.1 signals, each encoded into a 1-Bit DSD Data Stream...."1" if sample is increase in voltage and "'0" if decrease....which makes A/D and D/A Conversions very simple....albeit at a VERY High Sample Rate:
https://www.manualslib.com/download/...Sl-Dv-50a.html [FREE Service Manual, see also link to Operating Manual]

In DV-563a's DSP (i.e. Philips SAA7893), para 7.3.2 on pg 12 says that the Output to D/A Convert/Filters in either in PCM or DSD Format...hence it is NOT converted to PCM within THAT Chip...nor are there any REASONS to do any PCM Sampling of the DSD Waveform:
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe...S/SAA7893.html

And in DV-563a's D/A Converter Chips (TI DSD-1791 and DSD-1702), there are separate processes for PCM and DSD.....with NO PCM Sampling of the DSD Waveform, incl. an ANALOG Output LPF plus a recommended external ANALOG Active Filter:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dsd1791.pdf
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dsd1702.pdf
Be very careful reading these DUAL PURPOSE PCM and DSD D/A Converter Specs. The DIGITAL Filters are for PCM [incl. option for BETTER, External Digital Filters], which have much lower roll-off Freq than DSD, for which an ANALOG Filter(s) is provided.

DITTO for my OPPO BDP-93 BR-Player which reportedly uses fol. Cirrus CS4382A 7.1 D/A Converter Chip:
https://d3uzseaevmutz1.cloudfront.ne...CS4382A_F2.pdf
And OPPO BDP-83 which reportedly uses earlier. Cirrus CS4362A 5.1 D/A Converter Chip:
https://d3uzseaevmutz1.cloudfront.ne...CS4362A_F2.pdf

================================================== =================
Fol. thread summaries SOME additional DVD/BR Players that retain PURE ANALOG Processing for SACD's DSD Waveform, incl. some Denon's that use the "1791" chip (various p/n's from alternative sources, see TI Spec Sheet mentioned above), which was ALSO specifically designed to AVOID any PCM Sampling of the DSD Waveform, using ONLY Analog Filters:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...rocessing.html

================================================== =================

BTW: Since SACD was invented by Sony, they will ALSO play in the various Playstation Game Consoles....even the early SCPH100x thru SCPH700x Models, which used the following (DSD-ONLY) AK4309 1-Bit D/A Converter. Note that this particular chip uses a Capacitor Switched Output Filter (i.e. sorta ANALOG, NOT Sampled, operating at a very high frequency). You might want to check FleaBay if you don't have a Playstation.....or perhaps you (or a friend) has an old Playstation stored in the garage:
http://dogbreath.de/PS1/DAC/DAC.html
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.net/data.../AK4309BVM.pdf
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1255124 [Article re Capacitor Switched Filters]

I'm no expert re all of the various PlayStation versions....however, note that early Playstations only had STEREO L/R Analog Outputs and SACD can NOT be conveyed via Optical I/F...you would need either DD5.1 Analog Outputs (via six RCA Jacks) or HDMI in order to hear SURROUND DSD signals. And there is one more complication due to Playstation only having ONE HDMI Output I/F (instead of two found on recent DVD/BR Players): if connected directly to HDTV for Display, you would need to use a2-Port HDMI SPLITTER to provide separate HDMI I/F's to both HDTV and AVR/Sound-Bar for playback....but only SOME [more expensive] HDMI Splitter's support INDEPENDENT outputs so that HDTV I/F would operate in Downmixed STEREO and AVR I/F in DD5.1 SURROUND. SO the better approach is to connect Playstation HDMI I/F to AVR's Input for DD5.1 Playback and connect AVR's HDMI Output to the HDTV, which will be properly Downmixed to Stereo.

Last edited by holl_ands; 08-09-2017 at 12:11 PM.
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post #20 of 54 Old 08-09-2017, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
Since the Sony DVP-NS755 (etal) Operating Manual says it implements BASS MANAGEMENT for the LFE Channel [which requires some Audio FILTERS....and does NOT indicate that this feature does NOT apply to the Discrete 5.1 Analog Outputs (6 RCA Jacks), I would conclude that the reconstituted SACD Analog Waveform has a VERY High Frequency Filter to smooth out the 1-Bit DAC Waveform, which is then SAMPLED to generate PCM Samples for the Crossover Filters (likely at [email protected] KHz, the highest supported by the DSP):
https://www.manualslib.com/download/...vp-Ns755v.html [Also see link to FREE Service Manual]
Unfortunately, I was unable to locate Spec Sheets for the Sony's [perhaps Proprietary???] DSP and D/A Converter Chips....but I did find fol. (see pg 23+), which provides at least SOME description of the Audio Circuitry:
http://www.acousticpsychos.com/Files...ny_dvdtech.pdf [Operating Manual, also see link to FREE Service Manual.]

=================================================
OTOH: My first SACD/DVD-A/DVD Player, the Pioneer DV-563a, does NOT have any BASS MANAGEMENT function (that's properly left for the AVR to do...OR NOT to do when in DIRECT mode, bypassing it's DSP)....it ONLY allows user to adjust Speaker Distance (Delay) and Relative LEVELS (easily done without PCM Sampling). Looking at the DV-563a's FREE Service Manual, I see that the Laser Disk Reader sends signals to two chips IC701 for PCM Sampling and IC601 for SACD 5.1 Signal Conversion, which then go thru IC201 [DSD1791 for LF/RF], IC301 [DSD1702 for LS/RS] and IC401 [DSD1702 for Ctr/LFE] D/A Converters which also have programmable FILTERS for the Analog Waveform. [Block Diagrams never tell the whole story....but it APPEARS that PCM is being converted to very high quality DSD waveform ("Delta-Sigma Modulator") prior to using a COMMON Output Filter.....]

SACD's Digital Format contains info for all 5.1 signals, each encoded into a 1-Bit DSD Data Stream...."1" if sample is increase in voltage and "'0" if decrease....which makes A/D and D/A Conversions very simple....albeit at a VERY High Sample Rate:
https://www.manualslib.com/download/...Sl-Dv-50a.html [FREE Service Manual, see also link to Operating Manual]

In DV-563a's DSP (i.e. Philips SAA7893), para 7.3.2 on pg 12 says that the Output to D/A Convert/Filters in either in PCM or DSD Format...hence it is NOT converted to PCM within THAT Chip...nor are there any REASONS to do any PCM Sampling of the DSD Waveform:
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe...S/SAA7893.html

And in DV-563a's D/A Converter Chips (TI DSD-1791 and DSD-1702), there are separate processes for PCM and DSD.....with NO PCM Sampling of the DSD Waveform, incl. an ANALOG Output LPF plus a recommended external ANALOG Active Filter:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dsd1791.pdf
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dsd1702.pdf
Be very careful reading these DUAL PURPOSE PCM and DSD D/A Converter Specs. The DIGITAL Filters are for PCM [incl. option for BETTER, External Digital Filters], which have much lower roll-off Freq than DSD, for which an ANALOG Filter(s) is provided.

DITTO for my OPPO BDP-93 BR-Player which reportedly uses fol. Cirrus CS4382A 7.1 D/A Converter Chip:
https://d3uzseaevmutz1.cloudfront.ne...CS4382A_F2.pdf
And OPPO BDP-83 which reportedly uses earlier. Cirrus CS4362A 5.1 D/A Converter Chip:
https://d3uzseaevmutz1.cloudfront.ne...CS4362A_F2.pdf

================================================== =================
Fol. thread summaries SOME additional DVD/BR Players that retain PURE ANALOG Processing for SACD's DSD Waveform, incl. some Denon's that use the "1791" chip (various p/n's from alternative sources, see TI Spec Sheet mentioned above), which was ALSO specifically designed to AVOID any PCM Sampling of the DSD Waveform, using ONLY Analog Filters:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...rocessing.html

================================================== =================

BTW: Since SACD was invented by Sony, they will ALSO play in the various Playstation Game Consoles....even the early SCPH100x thru SCPH700x Models, which used the following (DSD-ONLY) AK4309 1-Bit D/A Converter. Note that this particular chip uses a Capacitor Switched Output Filter (i.e. sorta ANALOG, NOT Sampled, operating at a very high frequency). You might want to check FleaBay if you don't have a Playstation.....or perhaps you (or a friend) has an old Playstation stored in the garage:
http://dogbreath.de/PS1/DAC/DAC.html
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.net/data.../AK4309BVM.pdf
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1255124 [Article re Capacitor Switched Filters]

I'm no expert re all of the various PlayStation versions....however, note that early Playstations only had STEREO L/R Analog Outputs and SACD can NOT be conveyed via Optical I/F...you would need either DD5.1 Analog Outputs (via six RCA Jacks) or HDMI in order to hear SURROUND DSD signals. And there is one more complication due to Playstation only having ONE HDMI Output I/F (instead of two found on recent DVD/BR Players): if connected directly to HDTV for Display, you would need to use a2-Port HDMI SPLITTER to provide separate HDMI I/F's to both HDTV and AVR/Sound-Bar for playback....but only SOME [more expensive] HDMI Splitter's support INDEPENDENT outputs so that HDTV I/F would operate in Downmixed STEREO and AVR I/F in DD5.1 SURROUND. SO the better approach is to connect Playstation HDMI I/F to AVR's Input for DD5.1 Playback and connect AVR's HDMI Output to the HDTV, which will be properly Downmixed to Stereo.
Anttime bass management is used, the DSD bitstream will convert to PCM. If I remember correctly, the Pioneer 563 is DSD direct to analog in stereo.

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post #21 of 54 Old 08-10-2017, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ematcion View Post
Anytime bass management is used, the DSD bitstream will convert to PCM. If I remember correctly, the Pioneer 563 is DSD direct to analog in stereo.
Pioneer DV-563 is DSD Direct to Analog in not only STEREO, but ALSO in SURROUND.....and it does NOT perform the Bass Management function....since AVR is responsible for that function, IF enabled....so, why would ANYONE want BOTH AVR and Player to do the SAME function???? [FWIW: My OPPO BDP-93 Universal Disc Player ALSO performs Bass Management Function...which I do NOT use, cuz it's in my AVR.]

Note that DSD1791/1702 D/A Converters [described earlier] accept data in EITHER DSD or PCM Data Format...there is NO DSD to PCM Conversion in IC701 [which also performs SWITCHING function to route Multiplexed PCM Data [e.g. L/R on SAME I/F] onto the Outputs]:






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post #22 of 54 Old 08-10-2017, 12:29 PM
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I'm a bit lost here myself. Would an Oppo DV-981 output surround from SACD through the optical out? Or do I have to use the 6 analog outs? (My receiver doesn't have 5.1 anaolg inputs)
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post #23 of 54 Old 08-10-2017, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prof55 View Post
I don't own the Sony player yet, I'm investigating options to play this disc in 5.1: The Carpenters Singles 1969-1981

Yes, I'm a big fan of the Carpenters!
Don't worry prof55. There are more of us out there. Karen's voice is truly amazing, to this day! I own that SACD, and it is good one.
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post #24 of 54 Old 08-10-2017, 12:54 PM
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So far, we were specifically addressing an OLD Sony DVD Player which did NOT have HDMI, so we've discussed what you CAN'T do via Optical (EVERYTHING except PCM Stereo, DD5.1 and DTS5.1/6.1) and what you CAN DO via Analog Output I/F: EVERYTHING with OPPO and a few other Players....but perhaps NONE of the Hi-Rez Loss-Less Formats with [MOST?] Disc Players....be sure read the fine print.

For later model Disc Players (and Game Boxes, et. al.), the HDMI I/F would support EVERYTHING the Player is capable of playing. Fortunately, MOST of them have TWO HDMI Output I/Fs....the one connected to the HDTV would be forced into PCM STEREO mode, whereas the Second HDMI I/F connected to AVR would be capable of all of the various SURROUND Modes. Note that SACD data exchange capability was added in HDMI 1.2 version, released Aug2005. And only SOME AVR's support Analog Surround Input via six RCA Jacks.

PS: Using Analog 5.1/7.1 Output from my OPPO [which outputs ALL Audio Formats] to my pre-HDMI AVR means that I have been IMMUNE from the YEARLY/Bi-YEARLY changes to the HDMI I/F Spec....and will continue to be IMMUNE to the upcoming HDMI 2.1 update. Except for PHONO Input, the UDTV with 4 HDMI, 1 CV + 1 Video I/F is my Switching Center...which even my WIFE can understand and control....using the R/C that came with the Cable Box [which ALSO can select the UDTV's Input when I forget to leave it on CATV]....so NO NEED to try to learn to use [and overcome quirks of] one of my Harmony R/Cs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

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post #25 of 54 Old 08-11-2017, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ergalthema View Post
I'm a bit lost here myself. Would an Oppo DV-981 output surround from SACD through the optical out?
No
Quote:
Or do I have to use the 6 analog outs?
Yes

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post #26 of 54 Old 08-12-2017, 02:44 PM
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Or Oppo DV-981's HDMI Output to an AVR that supports SACD's DSD Data Format Input.
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post #27 of 54 Old 08-12-2017, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
Or Oppo DV-981's HDMI Output to an AVR that supports SACD's DSD Data Format Input.
Good to know! It looks like my Onkyo NR646 does accept DSD. I'll have to research and be sure before I get a player.
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post #28 of 54 Old 08-13-2017, 02:53 AM
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Onkyo "TX-NR646 Advanced Manual English" says that it plays DSD Digital Audio Format via Network, File on USB Memory Device or HDMI Interfaces (see pg 22):
https://www.onkyousa.com/Downloads/manuals.php

"●HDMI
Input
IN1 (BD/DVD, HDCP2.2), IN2 (CBL/SAT, HDCP2.2), IN3 (STRM BOX,
HDCP2.2), IN4 (PC), IN5 (GAME), IN6, IN7, AUX INPUT HDMI (front)

Output
OUT MAIN (ARC), OUT SUB

Video Resolution
4K 60 Hz (RGB/YCbCr4:4:4/YCbCr4:2:2, 24 bit)

Audio Format
Dolby Atmos, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital, DTS:X,
DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, DTS 96/24, DTSES,
DTS, DTS Express, DSD, Multichannel PCM (up to 8ch)

Supported
3D, Audio Return Channel, Deep Color, x.v.Color™, LipSync, CEC,
4K, Extended Colorimetry (sYCC601, Adobe RGB, Adobe YCC601),
Content Type, 3D Dual View, 21:9 Aspect Ratio Video Format"

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post #29 of 54 Old 08-13-2017, 10:24 AM
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well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
with [MOST?]
PS: Using Analog 5.1/7.1 Output from my OPPO [which outputs ALL Audio Formats] to my pre-HDMI AVR means that I have been IMMUNE from the YEARLY/Bi-YEARLY changes to the HDMI I/F Spec....and will continue to be IMMUNE to the upcoming HDMI 2.1 update.

I'm in the same boat, but the downside is that the Oppos will do neither bass management nor speaker distance with SACD unless you convert to PCM. And the conversion to PCM in my BDP-95 definitely loses something in my system. I deal with this by using an analog bass manager (Outlaw Audio ICBM) when I want bass management with SACD, and using a quasi-ITU setup so that I don't need speaker distance correction. An additional benefit is that we avoid the jitter inherent in HDMI transmission. Another downside is no room correction software, but I partly compensate for that by using an anti-mode 8033s-ii on my subwoofer.

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post #30 of 54 Old 08-13-2017, 08:16 PM
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Jitter might be an issue with straight PCM via HDMI, but with any packeted data [MLP, DTHD DTS HD or SACD's own lossless encode]it becomes a much ado about nothing.
Of course if one want's to chase that "dragon's tale"..... hey it's their money.

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