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post #121 of 140 Old 09-04-2017, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post
That maybe was true in your case however projecting that to the endless variations of other set ups and users would not be wise. Same way I'm not saying that all Sab/sut will equal or better all floor standing set ups, I'm simply saying one should not make some arbitrary rules to all based on a single experience. Naturally I've heard many different set ups and I don't have a clear favorite based on that.
It's interesting that you state "one should not make some arbitrary rules to all based on a single experience". Where in my earlier post did I infer my experiences were an absolute or should be applied to endless variations? I was posting my experiences in my room nothing more. The fact that you don't have a clear favorite is fine and is your opinion. That's cool with me. But the fact that I have a different opinion than yours leads you to believe I have no other experience listening to different systems. With that assumption you are dead wrong.

I've heard many different surround systems over the years. Some much more elaborate than my system and some that were not. With a few of those systems going from small surrounds to full range surrounds. On each occasion the addition of full range surrounds was a noticeable SQ improvement for surround music especially quad mixes. I'm not sure how one would not prefer a surround speaker that has the capability to reproduce more of the audio range (for multichannel music) than one that does not. But that's just my opinion and not some "arbitrary rule" .

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post #122 of 140 Old 09-04-2017, 02:36 PM
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It's interesting that you state "one should not make some arbitrary rules to all based on a single experience". Where in my earlier post did I infer my experiences were an absolute or should be applied to endless variations?
I was posting my experiences in my room nothing more. The fact that you don't have a clear favorite is fine and is your opinion. That's cool with me. But the fact that I have a different opinion than yours leads you to believe I have no other experience listening to different systems. With that assumption you are dead wrong.
So who implying/assuming what now?
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I've heard many different surround systems over the years. Some much more elaborate than my system and some that were not. With a few of those systems going from small surrounds to full range surrounds. On each occasion the addition of full range surrounds was a noticeable SQ improvement for surround music especially quad mixes. I'm not sure how one would not prefer a surround speaker that has the capability to reproduce more of the audio range (for multichannel music) than one that does not. But that's just my opinion and not some "arbitrary rule" .

Bill
LOL see what you did there? Probably not. The so called full range speakers don't reproduce any more FR's[audio range] than a sub/ sat system, it's usually the opposite since any decent sub will destroy the low end of most floor standing speakers.
Anyway there is a ton of research on this.....

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post #123 of 140 Old 09-04-2017, 02:47 PM
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So who implying/assuming what now?

LOL see what you did there? Probably not. The so called full range speakers don't reproduce any more FR's[audio range] than a sub/ sat system, it's usually the opposite since any decent sub will destroy the low end of most floor standing speakers.
Anyway there is a ton of research on this.....
Mind pointing out what I was implying/assuming .

Well again your assumption is wrong . In that I'm using my full range surrounds with Rythmik F12SE subs. Didn't see that coming did you . All things being equal (used with subs) in your opinion full range surrounds have no advantage over small satellite speakers? When I say equal same gear and room just swapping out surround speakers

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My SACD collection and HRAudio.net Library, getting larger as my wallet gets smaller ;-).

Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, UDP-203, BDP-105, BDP-103, BDP-93, BDP-83, Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.

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post #124 of 140 Old 09-04-2017, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I blocked that guy. He just wants to argue.

My old surrounds went down to 80Hz, but at high volumes they couldn't keep up with my mains. I swapped them for some really nice speakers and now I can get the volume up. All my speakers are full range, but the crossover to the sub stays at 80Hz. My sub is MUCH more efficient at putting out sub bass than any full range speaker. My other speakers perform better above 80Hz because they don't have to strain to produce sub bass. More efficient sounds better. That's why we have bass management.

If you don't have a good sub then you would want full range speakers, but with a sub the ability to go loud without blowing out is the main limitation to small inexpensive rears, not the ability to produce sound below 80Hz. The size of the room matters too, because the larger the room, the more powerful the speakers have to be to fill it.
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post #125 of 140 Old 09-04-2017, 03:22 PM
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My old surrounds went down to 80Hz, but at high volumes they couldn't keep up with my mains. I swapped them for some really nice speakers and now I can get the volume up. All my speakers are full range, but the crossover to the sub stays at 80Hz. My sub is MUCH more efficient at putting out sub bass than any full range speaker. My other speakers perform better above 80Hz because they don't have to strain to produce sub bass. More efficient sounds better. That's why we have bass management.

If you don't have a good sub then you would want full range speakers, but with a sub the ability to go loud without blowing out is the main limitation to small inexpensive rears, not the ability to produce sound below 80Hz. The size of the room matters too, because the larger the room, the more powerful the speakers have to be to fill it.
I agree with your thoughts as far as the advantages of full range surrounds when compared to smaller surrounds. You make a valid point in that the full range surround will be able to handle more power and volume where a smaller speaker will be at a disadvantage.

Bill

My SACD collection and HRAudio.net Library, getting larger as my wallet gets smaller ;-).

Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, UDP-203, BDP-105, BDP-103, BDP-93, BDP-83, Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #126 of 140 Old 09-04-2017, 03:36 PM
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Mind pointing out what I was implying/assuming .
The very things you keep denying it's all there...
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Well once again your assumptions are wrong . In that I'm using my full range surrounds with Rythmik F12SE subs.
Oh boy here we go.... But your "argument" wasn't about the sub was it but rather the mid range, since you must have used the same sub with your previous speakers didn't you?
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Didn't see that coming did you .
What the second grader retort? I fully confess I expected a little more indeed.
Quote:
All things being equal (used with subs) in your opinion full range surrounds have no advantage over small satellite speakers? When I say equal same gear and room just swapping out surround speakers

Bill
There is no such thing as being "equal" every type of speakers need a different tailored set up, you can't just swap things out. But just for simplify things: Yes
it could, depends how small the satellite speaker was,[ and when I say "satellite" I mean anything between a Bose cube to a large bookshelf with multiple mid range and even bass driver], did it have a dedicated sub, and of course what do you replacing it with, since not all tower speakers are "equal" or even full range. The real advantage is it's simpleness, it's much easier to blend a "full range" tower speakers with a sub because the xo pint will be lower and therefore much less chance to localize the sub which ease it's placement or hear any phase issues.
It is much harder to set up a sub/sat system to perform to it's maximum, especially the rear/side surrounds. So yes if you wanna take the easy way and spend money on a new larger speaker it might just work out better just by replacing your old ones, but there is no guarantee.

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post #127 of 140 Old 09-04-2017, 03:43 PM
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What the second grader retort? I fully confess I expected a little more indeed.
C'mon man so serious, where's your sense of humor .
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There is no such thing as being "equal" every type of speakers need a different tailored set up, you can't just swap things out. But just for simplify things: Yes
it could, depends how small the satellite speaker was,[ and when I say "satellite" I mean anything between a Bose cube to a large bookshelf with multiple mid range and even bass driver], did it have a dedicated sub, and of course what do you replacing it with, since not all tower speakers are "equal" or even full range. The real advantage is it's simpleness, it's much easier to blend a "full range" tower speakers with a sub because the xo pint will be lower and therefore much less chance to localize the sub which ease it's placement or hear any phase issues.
It is much harder to set up a sub/sat system to perform to it's maximum, especially the rear/side surrounds. So yes if you wanna take the easy way and spend money on a new larger speaker it might just work out better just by replacing your old ones, but there is no guarantee.
Well said and informative, thank you!

Bill

My SACD collection and HRAudio.net Library, getting larger as my wallet gets smaller ;-).

Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, UDP-203, BDP-105, BDP-103, BDP-93, BDP-83, Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.

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post #128 of 140 Old 09-04-2017, 03:45 PM
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I agree with your thoughts as far as the advantages of full range surrounds when compared to smaller surrounds. You make a valid point in that the full range surround will be able to handle more power and volume where a smaller speaker will be at a disadvantage.

Bill
yes efficiency is an advantage indeed, if my goal is simply to go super loud I would employ large full range speakers with even larger subs .No one argues that, you might wanna tell that to sworth since he ignores me now. What a difference a week makes last week it was you he called out.
No I don't wanna argue at all, I made my points and as I said there are lots of research out there from people who do this for a living.
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post #129 of 140 Old 09-04-2017, 03:46 PM
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C'mon man so serious, where's your sense of humor .

Bill
Touche!
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post #130 of 140 Old 09-05-2017, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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you might wanna tell that to sworth since he ignores me now.
Not you. You're fine! It's the other guy.

By the way, full range all around with a big sub is my theory exactly. My theater room is pretty big, so I have to pump up the volume to fill the room. It was simpler when I lived in an apartment and there wasn't so much space to fill.
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post #131 of 140 Old 09-27-2017, 07:54 AM
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Latest Dutton Vocalion release





Another two-fer like Pure Prairie League. I sampled a few songs on YouTube and sounds like a jazz-rock-funk combo platter.


Pre-ordered!


https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/pro...prod=CDSML8532
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post #132 of 140 Old 09-27-2017, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I had those albums when I was a kid. It's proto-smooth jazz. Hubert Laws was on the same record label. Jazzy elevator music. The jazz version of the 2001 theme is funny though. I don't remember this being in quad. Is it a remix? I wonder if this one will have bass?
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post #133 of 140 Old 09-27-2017, 01:00 PM
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Latest Dutton Vocalion release





Another two-fer like Pure Prairie League. I sampled a few songs on YouTube and sounds like a jazz-rock-funk combo platter.


Pre-ordered!


https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/pro...prod=CDSML8532
I listened to one of the Deodato albums in this set and enjoyed the music. A definite buy without a doubt. Hopefully there'll be many more DV multichannel SACD releases in the near future !

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post #134 of 140 Old 11-04-2017, 04:12 AM
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Got a chance to listen to Deodato's Prelude & Deodato 2 multichannel SACD the other day. This is from a group I'd never heard of and features two of their albums. Another excellent sounding quad mix from Dutton Vocalion! The music is hard to pinpoint but it reminds me of early Chicago. Every SACD I've bought from DV has been excellent! The prices are excellent as well.

Bill
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post #135 of 140 Old 11-04-2017, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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The genre on that is proto-smooth jazz.
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post #136 of 140 Old 11-04-2017, 11:17 AM
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Got a chance to listen to Deodato's Prelude & Deodato 2 multichannel SACD the other day. This is from a group I'd never heard of and features two of their albums. Another excellent sounding quad mix from Dutton Vocalion! The music is hard to pinpoint but it reminds me of early Chicago. Every SACD I've bought from DV has been excellent! The prices are excellent as well.

Bill
I have a slew of these Multi-Channel Dutton Vocalion SACD's and find them very enjoyable. I don't have Prelude & Deodato 2 so I'll have to check it out after hearing your positive feedback.

One of the other titles I don't have and really want to hear is: "Tower of Power - Ain't Nothin' Stoppin' Us Now" MCH SACD

Available Here: https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/pro...prod=CDSML8523

Grew up in the S. F. Bay Area and have seen Tower of Power and Cold Blood many times.

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post #137 of 140 Old 11-05-2017, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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It seems they do better on the rock and jazz fusion than they do with orchestral and big band. Maybe they figure that is what the market is interested in so they spend time on it.
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post #138 of 140 Old 11-05-2017, 03:02 PM
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Anyone get this? I was wondering how it sounds. There's a bunch of classic soul tunes on it.




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post #139 of 140 Old 05-17-2019, 05:14 PM
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I received an email from Dutton Vocalion today and there was some great news!

Our next batch of titles, due soon, comprise a tantalizing selection of soul, Latin, jazz and rock reissues, all of which are in the SACD format. Full details will be sent nearer the time; meanwhile, keep an eye on the Vocalion website for updates.

Bill

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Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205, UDP-203, BDP-105, BDP-103, BDP-93, BDP-83, Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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