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post #1 of 96 Old 09-06-2018, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Post OPPO options - new players

Now that the reality of the loss of the OPPO players as the preferred option has sunk in and the market has begun to react, I figured we could use a thread to track all the current and upcoming options for physical media playback.

Ideally, new players will continue the multi-format support that Oppo established as a standard and will handle all audio formats CD, DVD-A, SACD (2ch & 5.1), BD-A, as well as the current video formats DVD, BluRay, BluRay-HD4K. The later two are important as those seem to be the carriers of choice for Atmos immersive audio mixes.

While handling of the above physical media is the primary duty of any new player, most have also been adding a ton of streaming as well as local (USB or DLNA) content playback (both audio-only and A/V). So ideally the products have at least multichannel DLNA rendering capabilities.

This thread was triggered by my thoughts about what's next after my Oppo 103, and the fact that there is a lot of news coming out of the fall trade shows (IFA/CEDIA).

So for starters, here is a piece discussing the new Pioneer Elite UDP-LX500 multi-format player just announced at IFA: https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...blu-ray-player



This one looks like a contender.

What other units both current and announced ar worthy options of 103/203 105/205 replacements?
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post #2 of 96 Old 09-06-2018, 07:22 AM
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I have been researching the same thing as I have (2) Oppo 103's and was not able to get a 203 at the end of the run. I would want something of the quality of the Oppo product and the Elite you reference really looks good at first glance. What I had found available now that seemed to touch all the bases was the Sony 1000es linked below. It seems to play all the disc formats which is really important to me as I have a large collection of SACD and DVD-A and does streaming as well. The streaming is not an issue for me as my Z9D can handle that. Hopefully we can get some more options after the show season wraps up. Of course the Sony X800 will also play everything but I don't think it is anywhere near the level of the Oppo players. Sure going to miss Oppo.


https://www.sony.com/electronics/blu...rs/ubp-x1000es
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post #3 of 96 Old 09-06-2018, 10:03 AM
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If you're a multi-channel analogue audio lover, sadly both the Pioneer and the Sony only offer 2 channel analogue audio outputs

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post #4 of 96 Old 09-07-2018, 04:13 PM
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There are no universal players that can replace the OPPO’s. The Pioneer comes the closest but until it’s released no one knows how close.
The Sony 1000es sounds great and plays back all disc types but is hampered by a crappy remote (I have one). Also, stereo analogs only.
The Panasonic UB820 is pretty much a video player with no SACD/DVD-A playback, crappy file handling and the usual mediocre Panny remote.
The Panasonic UB9000 is a totally wasted opportunity. I don’t know what they were thinking when they decided to take on the OPPO 205, but they weren’t thinking with their brains.
The Cambridge Audio CXUHD comes the closest in functionality, but no analog outs.

Personally, I’d look for a used OPPO as an analog surround player. The 105 or 95 are both exceptional if you don’t need 4k. Even so, it’s worth grabbing one and a cheap 4k player. With HDMI 2.1, 12 bit TV’s (and 8K) coming, there are many changes coming in UHD very soon.
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post #5 of 96 Old 09-07-2018, 07:28 PM
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post #6 of 96 Old 09-09-2018, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, that Sony ES looks to be the ES version of the UX800 (which I have, mostly to get at the Atmos soundtracks of UHD discs), so better construction and warranty, but similar (digital) features.

Ti-triodes, agree that on the UHD front, we'll be seeing a lot of evolution over the coming two years. I hope at least one of the vendors continues to support all legacy disc formats, it's not like there's any effort or added costs (unless SACD has special requirements) at this stage of the game. The biggest downside I'd see as a vendor would be added complexity in UI, documentation and testing efforts.

BTW- I'm an all digital setup as far as sources so go, so more interested in the quality and capability of the player, I let my preamp worry about D/A.
So the one thing from the 205 I liked was the jitter reduction scheme on the HDMI link that it had over the 203, the rest was not of interest to me. Kind of hoping Oppo sells that IP to someone else, it is pretty slick tech.
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post #7 of 96 Old 09-09-2018, 03:26 PM
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I forgot to mention another player. Word is Pioneer will also release the LX700 or 800 which possibly will include multichannel analogs. With the pricing of the LX500 at $1100, who knows what an upgraded model will go for. I’m sure it will be more than the OPPO 205 @ $1299.
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post #8 of 96 Old 09-09-2018, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post
Thanks guys, that Sony ES looks to be the ES version of the UX800 (which I have, mostly to get at the Atmos soundtracks of UHD discs), so better construction and warranty, but similar (digital) features.



Ti-triodes, agree that on the UHD front, we'll be seeing a lot of evolution over the coming two years. I hope at least one of the vendors continues to support all legacy disc formats, it's not like there's any effort or added costs (unless SACD has special requirements) at this stage of the game. The biggest downside I'd see as a vendor would be added complexity in UI, documentation and testing efforts.



BTW- I'm an all digital setup as far as sources so go, so more interested in the quality and capability of the player, I let my preamp worry about D/A.

So the one thing from the 205 I liked was the jitter reduction scheme on the HDMI link that it had over the 203, the rest was not of interest to me. Kind of hoping Oppo sells that IP to someone else, it is pretty slick tech.


How does jitter manifest itself as I don’t think I’ve ever come across it ?


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post #9 of 96 Old 09-09-2018, 05:20 PM
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How does jitter manifest itself as I don’t think I’ve ever come across it ?


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With regard to the oppo 205 hdmi jitter comment, what little I have read about it (on OPPO's site, some comments on the 203 /205 threads, and elsewhere), makes me think there isn't likely to be a discernable difference between the 203 and 205 as far as playing movies goes.
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post #10 of 96 Old 09-10-2018, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post
I forgot to mention another player. Word is Pioneer will also release the LX700 or 800 which possibly will include multichannel analogs. With the pricing of the LX500 at $1100, who knows what an upgraded model will go for. I’m sure it will be more than the OPPO 205 @ $1299.
Sadly, the Pioneer UDP-LX800 offers 2 channel analogue outputs only

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post #11 of 96 Old 09-10-2018, 08:39 AM
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How does jitter manifest itself as I don’t think I’ve ever come across it ?


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Jitter is a error or deviation in timing from the original source... having a great clock helps.
In as far as how it manifests itself... it adds a measure of "Granularity" to the sound image. Some might say distortion.

You can't just listen to your system and say "I have jitter issues" (unless your system is really bad), you need a baseline of experience of being able to hear a piece with less jitter to say "I can hear the difference". Jitter being audible can be very minuscule in modern electronics, but it does exist.
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post #12 of 96 Old 09-10-2018, 10:59 AM
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The 203 must've been really under-priced and/or unique product, if there are no players currently available that's able to offer its entire feature-set.

If/when I need to replace mine, my absolute minimum requirements are:
  • Multi-channel analog outputs w/basic audio processing
  • Option for all-region blu-ray playback
  • DV-compatible
  • Robust media playback capabilities via SMB/network.

Are there any players available now supports all of the above?
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post #13 of 96 Old 09-10-2018, 12:25 PM
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The 203 must've been really under-priced and/or unique product, if there are no players currently available that's able to offer its entire feature-set.

If/when I need to replace mine, my absolute minimum requirements are:
  • Multi-channel analog outputs w/basic audio processing
  • Option for all-region blu-ray playback
  • DV-compatible
  • Robust media playback capabilities via SMB/network.

Are there any players available now supports all of the above?
Don't forget that the OPPO's UDP-20x range also offer a rear HDMI input. And an HDMI ARC function (which means you can send digital stereo/multi-channel audio from your TV to the OPPO and it will transcode it to the analogue audio outputs).

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post #14 of 96 Old 09-10-2018, 04:21 PM
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Sadly, the Pioneer UDP-LX800 offers 2 channel analogue outputs only
According to this site, it will have 7.1 analogs. It will probably be 2x the price of the LX500 though.


https://translate.google.com/transla...ra-hd-blu-ray/
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post #15 of 96 Old 09-10-2018, 06:56 PM
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Using analog 5.1 out is even more niche then playing hi-res, yet a lot of people seem to be hung up on this one feature. Having used my Oppo 105 and the analog outs, I much prefer using the 203 and HDMI. Unless you have a well set up system and excellent room treatments, you are going to need room correction. Plus all the additional listening features of an AVR and the ability to play next generation AMTOS renders the 5.1 outs obsolete.

All IMO of course.
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post #16 of 96 Old 09-10-2018, 07:13 PM
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Using analog 5.1 out is even more niche then playing hi-res, yet a lot of people seem to be hung up on this one feature. Having used my Oppo 105 and the analog outs, I much prefer using the 203 and HDMI. Unless you have a well set up system and excellent room treatments, you are going to need room correction. Plus all the additional listening features of an AVR and the ability to play next generation AMTOS renders the 5.1 outs obsolete.

All IMO of course.
I agree 100%!

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post #17 of 96 Old 09-11-2018, 09:06 AM
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still...

Quote:
Originally Posted by weekendtoy View Post
Using analog 5.1 out is even more niche then playing hi-res, yet a lot of people seem to be hung up on this one feature. Having used my Oppo 105 and the analog outs, I much prefer using the 203 and HDMI. Unless you have a well set up system and excellent room treatments, you are going to need room correction. Plus all the additional listening features of an AVR and the ability to play next generation AMTOS renders the 5.1 outs obsolete.

All IMO of course.

A few of us have the requisite room, system, analog BM and DSP treatment for the sub which may favor 5.1 analog - especially for SACD. None of this precludes having an AVR capable of room correction and Atmos.

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post #18 of 96 Old 09-11-2018, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by weekendtoy View Post
Using analog 5.1 out is even more niche then playing hi-res, yet a lot of people seem to be hung up on this one feature. Having used my Oppo 105 and the analog outs, I much prefer using the 203 and HDMI. Unless you have a well set up system and excellent room treatments, you are going to need room correction. Plus all the additional listening features of an AVR and the ability to play next generation AMTOS renders the 5.1 outs obsolete.

All IMO of course.
For me, I'm primarily a music listener who got fed-up with having a large, heavy, energy sucking and ugly looking AVR dominating my A/V set-up. Now all that's on-show is my OPPO and a stereo Audiolab amplifier. My power amps (for surround sound) are hidden out of view.

That being said, much as I'd like to enjoy the "spatial audio experience", I don't want the obligatory massive AVR that it requires. Hopefully one day somebody will manufacture an dedicated 6 channel amplifier for decoding spatial audio only (with wireless speaker capability), along with an HDMI loop-through so that people can keep their existing AVR's

We can dream...

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post #19 of 96 Old 09-13-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post
According to this site, it will have 7.1 analogs. It will probably be 2x the price of the LX500 though.

https://translate.google.com/transla...ra-hd-blu-ray/
Not according to its 'User Manual': https://intl.pioneer-audiovisual.com...180808_web.pdf
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post #20 of 96 Old 09-13-2018, 12:51 PM
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Not according to its 'User Manual': https://intl.pioneer-audiovisual.com...180808_web.pdf
Not surprised that the LX800 does not have a 7.1 analog output. Oppo was probably one of the last if not the last company to produce players with a 7.1 analog output. It's becoming a feature that very few now use with not many AVR/prepros having a 7.1 analog input to utilize it. Great to see there is a balanced stereo output. One thing that is a glaring omission is digital inputs like the Oppo 205 has. I can't believe in this day and age of streaming digital music from servers or hard drives that Pioneer would not have that feature on it's flagship player. No HDMI input either.

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Irony of ironies, today I received an email from Oppo regarding my slot to order one of the last 205 in the shipment that just arrived. Price: $1,299

At that price, I'm going to pass, I can buy multiple other units (some of which I've already done) to meet my needs.

Based on this thread, there is a small niche of 5.1 analog out / use it as a preamp people, so I'll let one of them snag it.

At $500 the 103 and then the 203 were outstanding values. Beyond that point, one must really value the extras the 20x line brought.
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post #22 of 96 Old 09-13-2018, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post
Irony of ironies, today I received an email from Oppo regarding my slot to order one of the last 205 in the shipment that just arrived. Price: $1,299

At that price, I'm going to pass, I can buy multiple other units (some of which I've already done) to meet my needs.

Based on this thread, there is a small niche of 5.1 analog out / use it as a preamp people, so I'll let one of them snag it.

At $500 the 103 and then the 203 were outstanding values. Beyond that point, one must really value the extras the 20x line brought.
The 205 combines a high quality UHD player with a multichannel DAC. If you were to get the same functionality, you would have to purchase the 203 + an exaSound e38. The e38 alone is $3,849.

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post #23 of 96 Old 09-13-2018, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post
Irony of ironies, today I received an email from Oppo regarding my slot to order one of the last 205 in the shipment that just arrived. Price: $1,299

At that price, I'm going to pass, I can buy multiple other units (some of which I've already done) to meet my needs.
I think you'll end up regretting that decision JonFo!

If I hadn't had to fix my roof I'd have purchased the UDP-205 instead of the (excellent) UDP-203
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post #24 of 96 Old 09-13-2018, 04:34 PM
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Not surprised that the LX800 does not have a 7.1 analog output. Oppo was probably one of the last if not the last company to produce players with a 7.1 analog output. It's becoming a feature that very few now use with not many AVR/prepros having a 7.1 analog input to utilize it. Great to see there is a balanced stereo output. One thing that is a glaring omission is digital inputs like the Oppo 205 has. I can't believe in this day and age of streaming digital music from servers or hard drives that Pioneer would not have that feature on it's flagship player. No HDMI input either.

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Agreed with all your points, but both of the new Pannies have 7.1 analogs. Unfortunately you can’t do much with them. The 205 is looking like a bargain right about now.
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post #25 of 96 Old 09-13-2018, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
Not according to its 'User Manual': https://intl.pioneer-audiovisual.com...180808_web.pdf
Nice find. Did you also find the manual for the LX500? Every search I try turns up nothing.
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post #26 of 96 Old 09-13-2018, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post
Nice find. Did you also find the manual for the LX500? Every search I try turns up nothing.
https://intl.pioneer-audiovisual.com...180703_web.pdf

It was the third entry in Google's response to my search for
pioneer lx500 manual

However, since Google tends to look for things differently for different people, YMMV.
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post #27 of 96 Old 09-14-2018, 10:26 AM
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For people who mainly playback digital files via a network, there are several players available: Dune and DVDFab Movie Server. These players handle all the common digital files, FLAC, Multi-channel FLAC, WAV, APE, LPCM, AAC, MP3 but will also do BDA and DVD ISO files which is a big bonus. This could be a solution those who have their audio and video collections stored on a NAS, Music server or HTPC and don't have a custom Oppo.

Dune HD Duo 4K features: 4K playback, ESS Sabre32 DAC, audiophile quality analogue out via its RCA and balanced XLR connectors, Full menu BDA and DVD ISO playback, SACD and DSD.
http://dune-hd.com/ind/products/full...dia_players/50

https://www.amazon.com/Dune-HD-Duo-B...ds=Dune+player

http://www.digitalreviews.net/review...-reviewed.html

DVDFab Movie Server: https://www.dvdfab.cn/movie-server.htm

https://www.avforums.com/review/dvdf...r-review.14692

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Processor - Marantz 8805 - B&K 7270 THX 7 Channel Amp - Denon AVR 4810CI - Oppo BDP-103+203 - QNAP TVS-863+ Turbo NAS 64TB - QNAP TR-004 32TB - LG OLED 65" C8
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post #28 of 96 Old 09-14-2018, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
https://intl.pioneer-audiovisual.com...180703_web.pdf

It was the third entry in Google's response to my search for
pioneer lx500 manual

However, since Google tends to look for things differently for different people, YMMV.


Thanks. Good point about Google. Search on my Mac still turns up nothing.
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post #29 of 96 Old 09-18-2018, 07:03 AM
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it's a shame...

There is some serious price gouging going on, not only with Oppo 205s and 203s but on 105s too. Personally I'm not too hot on a udp as I think - with the advent of eARC - I'll be getting most if not all of my movies through the TV in two or three years, but I'd like to pick up an extra player to backstop my bdp-95. I'd gladly pay $3000 for a new premium player that would support my large SACD collection without conversion to PCM, but I'm also mindful that as room correction software improves it is becoming less of an issue.

5 Paradigm Studio 100 v3s, Servo-15 sub, Bryston 4B & 6B SST, Anthem AVM 20, Oppo bdp-95, LG 55" oled C7
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post #30 of 96 Old 11-12-2018, 09:16 PM
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Hi! New member here in the forums.

Question on Oppo and the attraction to its analogue multi-channel out feature.

I too missed the boat on the Oppo units and to make it worse, I'm just now getting into multi-channel sound. Currently I'm looking for a good disc player to read SACDs and blu-ray audio discs.

I have a McIntosh MX121 preamp-procesor which I think is a very good sounding unit (it sounds excellent to my ears anyway -I use it in pure direct mode-no room correction). Can someone explain what the drawback is in using a good BD player like the Pioneer to read an SACD disc, send the signal via HDMI to my MAC pre-amp processor, and have IT decode the signal to analogue multi-channel sound out to my amps? Does HDMI-out somehow degrade the signal before it is processed by a preamp-processor? If you use Bitstream out on a Blu-ray player, isn't it just a digital signal anyway? How can a digital signal be degraded by HDMI?
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