CDs Encoded in Dolby Matrixed Miultichannel - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 103 Old 03-28-2019, 01:16 PM
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Re Surround titles on Apple Music:
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Dolby Surround encoded recordings.
I see there are many recording on Apple Music that show they are encode with Dolby Surround. Do they retain this encoding once they are uploaded by Apple to Music?
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Yes: Dolby Surround encodes four channels - left, right, centre, back - into a two-channel signal. The center channel is mixed into the left and right channels (at -3dB to maintain levels), and the rear channel is encoded with Dolby B and mixed in in antiphase. On playback through a Dolby decoder the front and rear channels are extracted (though there is a fair amount of crosstalk) to provide the four channels again. As the actual recording is only two channels, it remains unaltered (though it's possible that the compression process to M4a might possibly affect the surround slightly).
His profile says he is a retired BBC sound manager.

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post #92 of 103 Old 03-28-2019, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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There was a Brian Eno laserdisc called Thursday Afternoon where the cover told you that the preferred format was vertical, so you were supposed to turn your TV set on its side. That one always made me laugh.
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post #93 of 103 Old 03-28-2019, 02:50 PM
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There was a Brian Eno laserdisc called Thursday Afternoon where the cover told you that the preferred format was vertical, so you were supposed to turn your TV set on its side. That one always made me laugh.
I was going to say, "it seems that Brian Eno had a sense of humor." But I took a quick look and found this:

The Panasonic industrial camera Eno received had significant design flaws preventing the camera from sitting upright without the assistance of a tripod. This led to his works being filmed in vertical format, requiring the television set to be flipped on its side to view it in the proper orientation.[58]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Eno

So it seems to be the result of a poorly designed camera and lack of use of a tripod.

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post #94 of 103 Old 03-28-2019, 03:49 PM
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With Sony supposed to introduce it's All New “360 Reality Audio” surround|immersive streaming technology--presumably also functional for download and|or disc sales--later in 2019, I guess there will yet again be a need for 'better remastering' of some existing content.

It would be nice to think that Sony might explore something beyond 'the same tired old content' that we get offered every time there is another new medium for consumer audio distribution!


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post #95 of 103 Old 03-28-2019, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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With Sony supposed to introduce it's All New “360 Reality Audio” surround|immersive streaming technology--
Actually, that might be a good thing. The biggest hurdle for ordinary folks in making the transition to surround is figuring out how to put it all together and have it work. If Sony creates equipment packages that are plug and play out of the box ready for surround, and creates a streaming service with a good selection of surround material, that might be something that brings surround back. I would suspect though that a streaming service would have to get by with upmixes at first.
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post #96 of 103 Old 03-29-2019, 07:57 PM
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I’m curious to know what others have the channel levels set at for listening to music. YPAO set them at 0 with the center channel at -1.0. Is it best to leave them there for music, or tweak them by album and move them back for cinema?

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post #97 of 103 Old 03-29-2019, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machavez00 View Post
I’m curious to know what others have the channel levels set at for listening to music. YPAO set them at 0 with the center channel at -1.0. Is it best to leave them there for music, or tweak them by album and move them back for cinema?
YPAO and other automatic setups are supposed to balance the sound so that, if there is supposed to be an equal signal from each channel, they will be equally loud at the listening location. Normally, one leaves the channel balance alone and does not change those levels when listening to different DSP programs in one's receiver/processor, regardless of whether it is a movie or music. But if you don't like the speakers to be balanced, you can change it to suit your preference. You can also play with delays, if you wish, though I do not recommend that either.

Of course, one should rerun the automatic setup if one changes any speakers or moves a speaker or moves furniture in the room. That is, if one wants the sound to be as intended.

But you can make the channel balance whatever you want it to be, up to the limits of the settings in your equipment. But unbalancing the system is not generally recommended.

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post #98 of 103 Old 03-30-2019, 12:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machavez00 View Post
I’m curious to know what others have the channel levels set at for listening to music. YPAO set them at 0 with the center channel at -1.0. Is it best to leave them there for music, or tweak them by album and move them back for cinema?
I had absolutely no luck using YPAO. It identified one spike, but for levels it was horrible. It dialed my sub off altogether and the rears and center were nowhere near balanced. I had to just use it as a starting point for the spike and throw pretty much everything else out and balance and EQ manually using tones. Getting a balanced system involves compromises and intelligent choices that a little mic sitting in one spot on the room can't make. YPAO is probably better than nothing, but it's nowhere near perfect. I'm lucky because I have a friend who is a professional sound mixer with a particular interest in EQing response curves. I got as close as I could myself, and then I brought him in to fine tune.

In other news, one of the Gerhardt Dolby Surround discs arrived today... the one with Newman scores. WOW! It sounds better than most true quad orchestral discs I have. It has a full, rich sound and a gorgeous ambience. I suspect RCA used old school microphones to record it. The midrange has a massed sound that resembles tube amp harmonics. The performance is a little under rehearsed, but it is extremely spirited and the dynamic range is huge. I would put this matrixed surround disc up against most discrete multichannel orchestral music. I've got a bunch more from this series on the way. The only ones I didn't buy are the crappy Star Wars and Close Encounters ones. Really looking forward to receiving the Max Steiner collection. He is my favorite composer for films... him and Rota.

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post #99 of 103 Old 03-30-2019, 04:34 AM
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He is my favorite composer for films... him and Rota.
You should enjoy this then.

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post #100 of 103 Old 03-30-2019, 08:03 AM
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I had absolutely no luck using YPAO. It identified one spike, but for levels it was horrible. ...
That is surprising, because it normally works very well for levels and delays. (Not so good for selecting crossover points and deciding "large" versus "small", but those are pretty easy to do manually if one knows the capabilities of one's speakers.) That, by the way, is not just my experience, but professional reviewers also find YPAO to be good at setting levels and delays. (Along with all of the other automatic setup systems.)

I can think of a couple of things that can mess it up. Were you careful in following the directions in the placement and orientation of the microphone? If that is off, then it will set things off. Another possibility is having some other noise in the room when the test signals are run, as the microphone would pick that up and set things "thinking" that that was part of what the system was reproducing. Of course, it is always possible that some part of your system is defective, but I would look to other things first. You might want to write down all of your current settings (so you can easily change it back) and try running YPAO again, carefully following the directions in the manual, and see what it comes up with. Keep in mind, if a speaker has been changed or moved, or any furniture has been moved, if it does its job properly, it will be different from correct settings for how the furniture and speakers were before.

Also, of course, your position in the room will affect the settings. If you are in the room in one spot, and run YPAO, you will get settings for how you being in that position affects the sound, and if you move and run it again, you will get settings for you in that new position. I leave the room when I use it, because if I were in the position I would normally be in, I would be blocking the microphone or causing it to be in a different position.

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post #101 of 103 Old 03-30-2019, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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It doesn't really matter. I have experience equalizing and I had a friend who is a professional I could call on to check my work. One of the big problems with automatic room correction is that it only corrects of one listening position. If you sit off axis it all falls apart. When I EQ I balance from all of the listening positions and find a happy compromise between them. That's important for positioning speakers too. Also level affects response and vice versa. You have to parallel park both level and response at the same time or it can fool you. I also EQ in three passes from normal low volume up to the highest listening level. There are tricks to EQing. I enjoy doing it and getting it absolutely perfect. Automatic systems are good for getting a ballpark if you don't know how to EQ.
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post #102 of 103 Old 04-17-2019, 08:31 PM
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I tried something today with my PS3. Under music you can select 48khz, or 44.1, 88.2, or 176.4khz. I selected the second. I played the one Dolby Surrond CD I have. It sent it to my Yamaha RX-V373 at 176.4khz. In doing so it disables Dolby Pro Logic and DTS NEO 6.

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post #103 of 103 Old 04-18-2019, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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You're upsampling beyond the specs for the Dolby Surround decoder. Padding out the sampling rate by upsampling does nothing to improve the sound. Everything above 44.1 will be completely blank. It's better to just set the output to auto, or 44.1.
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