Happy Birthday, SACD! You're 20 years old today! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 23 Old 05-21-2019, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Happy Birthday, SACD! You're 20 years old today!

In the below link, check out Sony's announcement of SACD's introduction 20 years ago

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/P...002/index.html

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post #2 of 23 Old 05-21-2019, 11:35 AM
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Still the physical disc format of choice for classical, jazz, world music and yacht rock enthusiasts everywhere!

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post #3 of 23 Old 05-21-2019, 12:25 PM
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I only have 1 SACD: Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon.

I'm glad my disc player (Sony X700) supports it. I listened to it recently.

I wish I could author my Blu Ray audio discs into something that was auto play like the SACD does.
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post #4 of 23 Old 05-21-2019, 12:50 PM
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And I wonder how long until the last one is made...

I also never understood 2 channel SACD players, for the high price that they are just add $100 and make it compatible with 5.1 systems. Even if the sound Quality is lower for mulit output. I ended up adding two speakers on the sides for a 4.0 or 4.1 setup and I think most hard core 2 channels guys would do the same.
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post #5 of 23 Old 05-21-2019, 02:05 PM
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The only reason for the SACD format was multichannel. When they cheaped out and released a bunch of "audiophile" 2 channel stuff that didn't sound clearly better than CDs, they diluted the impact and made SACDs redundant in most people's minds. Blu-ray audio at least isn't completely proprietary. Any blu-ray player can play them. But most people think of that format as being redundant too.
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post #6 of 23 Old 05-21-2019, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
I also never understood 2 channel SACD players, for the high price that they are just add $100 and make it compatible with 5.1 systems. Even if the sound Quality is lower for mulit output. I ended up adding two speakers on the sides for a 4.0 or 4.1 setup and I think most hard core 2 channels guys would do the same.
SACD was originally a 2-channel only format. The multi-channel capability and the CD compatible layer were added later so that SACD can be competitive with DVD-A.

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post #7 of 23 Old 05-21-2019, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ematcion View Post
In the below link, check out Sony's announcement of SACD's introduction 20 years ago

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/P...002/index.html

I look forward to discovering whether or not Sony's [streaming and immersive] "replacement"[?] for SACD, tentatively named '360 Reality Audio', and supposedly rolling out in late 2019, is still around in another 20 years...?!


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post #8 of 23 Old 05-22-2019, 02:25 AM
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My first SACD player was a then newly released Denon 2930CI, connected to a high-end Denon AVR via Denon Link. I thought I was on Cloud 9 with that setup... until the inevitable upgrade bug struck again. Fun times.
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post #9 of 23 Old 05-22-2019, 04:24 AM
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Right, the exclusive rights to the CD just expired so Sony had to come up with the next cash cow. So how about our new meant to be archiving format DSD? Brilliant! Now we can resell our entire vault! P.T. Barnum was right.

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post #10 of 23 Old 05-22-2019, 05:57 AM
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My first SACD player, a Denon 2900 (which is still in the closet) was released in 2003. I must of been a few years late to the party.

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post #11 of 23 Old 05-22-2019, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post
Right, the exclusive rights to the CD just expired so Sony had to come up with the next cash cow. So how about our new meant to be archiving format DSD? Brilliant! Now we can resell our entire vault! P.T. Barnum was right.
I own the SACD of Michael Jackson's "Thriller." Last night upon reading reviews, I purchased the DSD version of "Thriller" because the reviews said it was better than the SACD which I thought contained DSD. After having over paid for the DSD which is the No. 1 seller on Acoustic Sound, I am not impressed. I am playing DSD on a Bryston BDA3. However, I find redbook CDs on my Bryston SP3 sounds much better using Dolby Pro Logic Iix music or Bryston's proprietary surround mode Stereo7 7.1. Hi res is simply overrated in my humble opinion. And no more hi res for me.
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post #12 of 23 Old 05-22-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post
I own the SACD of Michael Jackson's "Thriller." Last night upon reading reviews, I purchased the DSD version of "Thriller" because the reviews said it was better than the SACD which I thought contained DSD. After having over paid for the DSD which is the No. 1 seller on Acoustic Sound, I am not impressed. I am playing DSD on a Bryston BDA3. However, I find redbook CDs on my Bryston SP3 sounds much better using Dolby Pro Logic Iix music or Bryston's proprietary surround mode Stereo7 7.1. Hi res is simply overrated in my humble opinion. And no more hi res for me.
Thriller was recorded on ANALOG TAPE and is not Hi Res. It was then lossy digitized to PCM. Then it was lossy converted to DSD.

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post #13 of 23 Old 05-22-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by sworth View Post
The only reason for the SACD format was multichannel. When they cheaped out and released a bunch of "audiophile" 2 channel stuff that didn't sound clearly better than CDs, they diluted the impact and made SACDs redundant in most people's minds. Blu-ray audio at least isn't completely proprietary. Any blu-ray player can play them. But most people think of that format as being redundant too.
Nothing worse than seeing an album you want on SACD but only stereo. Of course, it's a lot cheaper and easier to put an album on SACD than to remix it in surround I guess. But I also hated the stereo SACDs because I thought they confused consumers and decreased the chance of the new format (for surround) gaining traction with consumers.

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SACD was originally a 2-channel only format. The multi-channel capability and the CD compatible layer were added later so that SACD can be competitive with DVD-A.
That is really interesting, to think that DVD-Audio is the reason why SACDs started putting out surround discs. Is this confirmed? If it's true, then I guess all the older SACDs would be stereo and around the time DVD-A came out (or the specs revealed) surround SACDs started to get released. I dislike DVD-A since you can't autoplay them like SACD (or at least have to select the surround mix, which is a hassle), often have annoying record label or FBI warning splash screens, etc., but interesting to think that they may be the reason SACDs got into surround.

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I look forward to discovering whether or not Sony's [streaming and immersive] "replacement"[?] for SACD, tentatively named '360 Reality Audio', and supposedly rolling out in late 2019, is still around in another 20 years...?!
Sounds awesome... I want to get behind it but that means I will need to get another universal player and I don't know if that's worth it to me.

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post #14 of 23 Old 05-22-2019, 01:04 PM
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Nothing worse than seeing an album you want on SACD but only stereo.
The worst is when they release a multichannel SACD and it goes out of print and they re-release it in 2 channel with the same cover. I got stuck with a 2 channel Tubular Bells that way.
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post #15 of 23 Old 05-22-2019, 01:44 PM
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The worst is when they release a multichannel SACD and it goes out of print and they re-release it in 2 channel with the same cover. I got stuck with a 2 channel Tubular Bells that way.
Yep, been there and done that unfortunately multiple times. It's so easy to get the stereo version accidentally when you're not aware that there was a stereo release of a multichannel SACD you wanted. That's how I got the stereo version of Marvin Gaye's Midnight Love, T. Rex's Electric Warrior, Doobie Brother's Captain and Me, Miles Davis' In a Silent Way, etc. I'm much more careful now but it's a super bummer when you forget and spend a load of dough on something you didn't mean to buy.

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post #16 of 23 Old 05-22-2019, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post
I own the SACD of Michael Jackson's "Thriller." Last night upon reading reviews, I purchased the DSD version of "Thriller" because the reviews said it was better than the SACD which I thought contained DSD. After having over paid for the DSD which is the No. 1 seller on Acoustic Sound, I am not impressed. I am playing DSD on a Bryston BDA3. However, I find redbook CDs on my Bryston SP3 sounds much better using Dolby Pro Logic Iix music or Bryston's proprietary surround mode Stereo7 7.1. Hi res is simply overrated in my humble opinion. And no more hi res for me.
DSD is the "codec" [recording/playback] that is invented by Sony and was the basis for SACD. DSD these days are more often associated with stand alone digital files, since so many DACs started to be able to decode them. Before that Sony was pretty much kept it to itself, since it was to replace the CD, which was co invented by them as well.

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post #17 of 23 Old 05-22-2019, 09:00 PM
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Thriller was recorded on ANALOG TAPE and is not Hi Res. It was then lossy digitized to PCM. Then it was lossy converted to DSD.
Since the best analog master tapes can barely reach 15 bits of resolution, the lowly 16 bits of CD will easily able to capture all that is on those ever degrading analog formats can offer, including their noise properties.
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post #18 of 23 Old 05-23-2019, 10:44 AM
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We are fortunate to live in an age where just about everything is good enough to be perfect for human ears. I remember back in the analog days when every format had its own noise signature. There was no question that they all sounded different because they were all inferior to one degree or another.
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post #19 of 23 Old 05-23-2019, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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The worst is when they release a multichannel SACD and it goes out of print and they re-release it in 2 channel with the same cover. I got stuck with a 2 channel Tubular Bells that way.
Tubular Bell, to the best of my knowledge, has been released 3 times on SACD....the original multi-channel hybrid SACD by Virgin, the single-layer stereo SHM-SACD by Japan Universal, and on stereo hybrid SACD by Hong Kong Universal. Different divisions of the same company (Virgin is an Universal Music label), in different parts of the world, is going to prioritize the importance of multi-channel playback.

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post #20 of 23 Old 05-23-2019, 11:25 AM
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Thriller was recorded on ANALOG TAPE and is not Hi Res. It was then lossy digitized to PCM. Then it was lossy converted to DSD.
I don't recall writing Thriller was recorded in high res. Perhaps you read my comment too quickly. Regardless, my point was these hi res codecs are worthless for the most part. A good red book recording will suffice for digital playback in my opinion.
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post #21 of 23 Old 05-23-2019, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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That is really interesting, to think that DVD-Audio is the reason why SACDs started putting out surround discs. Is this confirmed? If it's true, then I guess all the older SACDs would be stereo and around the time DVD-A came out (or the specs revealed) surround SACDs started to get released.
That's the case in the US. US Sony's earliest SACD titles,for example, "Toto IV", Dave Brubeck Quartest's "Time Out", and Gloria Estefan's "Greatest Hits", were all released first as single-layer stereo only SACDs. It was later that separate single-layer multi-channel SACD versions of there titles were released.

In other parts of the world, for example, Europe, that the multi-channel version were reissued, yet again, on hybrid SACD at an even later date. "Toto IV" and "Time Out" comes to mind.

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post #22 of 23 Old 05-23-2019, 03:19 PM
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Different divisions of the same company (Virgin is an Universal Music label), in different parts of the world, is going to prioritize the importance of multi-channel playback.
I think it may have to do with licensing agreements. Another company may have financed the multichannel mix and requires a royalty for its release. This can even work within a single company with one division sending a bill to another division. That is called "synergy" (irony intended!)

In any case, an SACD without multichannel is pretty much useless to anyone but the most crazy Japanese audiophile.
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post #23 of 23 Old 05-31-2019, 03:37 PM
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I did own the scd-1 and nothing else that i owned sounded like it. I should hbe kept it.
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