NEW Dolby Atmos format 11.1.8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 9 Old 11-25-2019, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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NEW Dolby Atmos format 11.1.8

I was just about to install a speaker setup that is somewhat format agnostic to accommodate DTX and Auro 3D however I just learned of the new atmos format 11.1.8 supported by Emotiva. So instead of using 6 dedicated atmos speakers I will definitely go with the newer format, it appears more agnostic anyway .


Anyone have any comments about this new format, will Dolby have content to support it and will receivers be updated to work with this ?

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW5000 , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , (1) SVS PC13-Ultra .
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post #2 of 9 Old 11-25-2019, 11:59 AM
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There is a whole thread dedicated to it here:https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...mos-guide.html

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post #3 of 9 Old 11-25-2019, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
I just learned of the new atmos format 11.1.8 supported by Emotiva.
Not a new format. Summer of last year, Dolby told their licensees that they had "Testing support for selected speaker configurations up to and including 11.1.8."

They'd always had testing support for CPU based decoders (Trinnov) up to the full home Atmos 24.1.10 speaker configuration. That's because Dolby's own cinema Atmos processor was CPU based and could also decode home Atmos. For DSP based decoders (everyone besides Trinnov), Dolby could only test up to 11.1 channels. But DSP chips became more powerful and Dolby could now test up to 19.1 channels (11.1.8 speaker configuration).

When word of this 11.1.8 testing support got out, it was mistaken for a new Atmos configuration. It isn't. The home version of Atmos has always been able to do 24.1.10 decoding; the only limitation to the number of decoded/rendered channels being DSP horsepower. As processing power increased, the number of rendered channels likewise increased (hence all the 9.1.6 processors at CEDIA a couple months back).
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Anyone have any comments about this new format, will Dolby have content to support it and will receivers be updated to work with this ?
Dolby doesn't create content (besides demo discs) and larger speaker layouts don't require new content (the Atmos format is intended to natively scale to your speaker layout). As for receiver support: how will current receivers that do not have 19 speaker connections (or even pre-outs) be updated to support an 11.1.8 speaker configuration?

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post #4 of 9 Old 11-26-2019, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Not a new format. Summer of last year, Dolby told their licensees that they had "Testing support for selected speaker configurations up to and including 11.1.8."

They'd always had testing support for CPU based decoders (Trinnov) up to the full home Atmos 24.1.10 speaker configuration. That's because Dolby's own cinema Atmos processor was CPU based and could also decode home Atmos. For DSP based decoders (everyone besides Trinnov), Dolby could only test up to 11.1 channels. But DSP chips became more powerful and Dolby could now test up to 19.1 channels (11.1.8 speaker configuration).

When word of this 11.1.8 testing support got out, it was mistaken for a new Atmos configuration. It isn't. The home version of Atmos has always been able to do 24.1.10 decoding; the only limitation to the number of decoded/rendered channels being DSP horsepower. As processing power increased, the number of rendered channels likewise increased (hence all the 9.1.6 processors at CEDIA a couple months back). Dolby doesn't create content (besides demo discs) and larger speaker layouts don't require new content (the Atmos format is intended to natively scale to your speaker layout). As for receiver support: how will current receivers that do not have 19 speaker connections (or even pre-outs) be updated to support an 11.1.8 speaker configuration?

Appreciate the feedback, thanks. I actually understood Dolby was already available and coded for 24.1.10 but only for the higher end Trinnov, Datastat and so on . What wasn't available to the lower end consumer market were the SSP's that could handle anything more than 16 channels, most only 13.2 , the subs included. Watching the CEO of Emotiva recently saying Dolby is now capable of 11.4.8 is likely a reflection of the testing you mentioned, what they are going to support with the RMC-1, so yea, it's not a new atmos configuration . When I heard him saying this, I assumed they had the RMC-1 ready and capable for 11.1.8 . I'm currently doing the speaker install in my new theater, this was both exciting and great timing, I decided to call Emotiva see where they are in this process. It turns out they do not have the additional channel modules ready and would not offer any timeline at all, even when I asked if this could be available within two years he declined to agree even on this wide open time frame . Given Emotiva's history, especially with the RMC-1, I am not prepared to take a chance. I'm sure the RMC-1 is a great processor but without the additional modules it's a 16 channel processor and there are numerous others that can fill that requirement, most considerably cheaper. I'm going to use the X8500H Denon I have, wait it out. By the time Emotiva get the RMC-1 functioning and available to work beyond 16 channels there could be several other options, I think it best to wait and see .


Cheers

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW5000 , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , (1) SVS PC13-Ultra .
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post #5 of 9 Old 11-26-2019, 12:14 PM
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If you are pre-wiring behind sheetrock, etc, I would pre-wire for the most speakers that make since. For example I pre-wired for 9.6.6 or 11.4.6 depending on if I want to use one set of speaker wires as front heights or additional subs. My receiver will only do 7.2.4 with an additional amp so those are the only speakers I have installed. I suspect it will be some time before we see processing for anything over 7.1.4 affordably.

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post #6 of 9 Old 11-26-2019, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Watching the CEO of Emotiva recently saying Dolby is now capable of 11.4.8 is likely a reflection of the testing you mentioned...
I was trying to be diplomatic when I said that the announcement of the testing support was "mistaken" for a new configuration. Be careful of claims that channel limitations are due to Dolby, as though implementing more channels requires a newer version of Atmos, when that's not the case.
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post #7 of 9 Old 11-26-2019, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
If you are pre-wiring behind sheetrock, etc, I would pre-wire for the most speakers that make since. For example I pre-wired for 9.6.6 or 11.4.6 depending on if I want to use one set of speaker wires as front heights or additional subs. My receiver will only do 7.2.4 with an additional amp so those are the only speakers I have installed. I suspect it will be some time before we see processing for anything over 7.1.4 affordably.

I'm actually doing a second theater, the first was a nightmare to run any additional speaker wires or new HDMI cables, which to be honest had to be changed more often. When atoms came out with in-ceiling speaker locations, getting the wires to these locations behind finished walls covered in double sheetroc was not fun .In this new theater I have made provisions for ANY eventuality, well, at least for pulling cables. Appreciate the heads up though, it's certainly good advice for those doing this first time .


Cheers

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW5000 , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , (1) SVS PC13-Ultra .
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post #8 of 9 Old 11-26-2019, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I was trying to be diplomatic when I said that the announcement of the testing support was "mistaken" for a new configuration. Be careful of claims that channel limitations are due to Dolby, as though implementing more channels requires a newer version of Atmos, when that's not the case.

The "announcement" worked, it did get my attention and I put the Emotiva back on the radar. If they actually had this working I'd have one on the way, but Emotiva fooled me once, waiting three years to buy the RMC-1 definitely makes me a fool. Customers seem to really like the product, some willing to wait as long as it takes. I'll definitely give them a good look when they have product on the ground , but without any deadline whatsoever , two years might actually be the minimum.



At $5000 the product is at a descent price point . But this is at 16 channels, now wondering what the additional channels will cost . Stormaudio is around $9500.00 for their 20 channel processor right now , maybe this is going to be close to the Emotiva once the additional module is added , we shall see.
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Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW5000 , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , (1) SVS PC13-Ultra .
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post #9 of 9 Old 12-03-2019, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
That's because Dolby's own cinema Atmos processor was CPU based and could also decode home Atmos.
I have some notes to share on this. Technically the Cinema Processor decoded Home Atmos via channels on firmware 1. That is no longer the case.

What I got from them, all ATMOS consumer media contains the cinema's or for this forum UNIVERSAL MUSIC's studio original mix metadata. This includes the original mix rooms system info, apparently, the cp-850-c c is for a non-DCI license. The processor plays back consumer Atmos over a Cinema Atmos process. Remember the TOP middle pair being the only lit pair on some movies with Home Atmos? The cp-850 will render those objects over multiple pairs.

Originally the cp-850's HDMI route had a bed channel Atmos solution similar to the consumer version along with Dolby Surround upmixer for non-ATMOS. On medium and larger venues with this solution, it became very apparent that most of the loudspeakers were not being utilized. People complained.

Dolby re-engineered the whole home atmos process to take full advantage of the rendering engine, for non-atmos sources LPCM it creates a cinema renderer upmix, not dolby surround.

STEP ONE
The OAR Original Audio Renderer analyses the incoming signal that the consumer processor would channelize. Say you have 64 objects in a cinema mix (three bees one bee being an object), once it is released for home the three bees are combined into a cluster. The OAR takes these clusters and using the original studio XYZ positioning data re-renderers a full-blown all object ATMOS CINEMA MIX spreading the sound across multiple speakers ( no single side channels but all channels acting in unison creates something akin a phased array-like enhanced level of precision) as best it can but with the 20 or so objects consumer atmos objects that are clustered. THERE ARE NO CHANNELS in this approach. All speakers are used.

After the Original Audio Renderer decodifies and renders to ALL SPEAKERS the signal, STEP TWO is to encode it on the fly to a full-blown Cinema Atmos.

It is much more accurate to the Cinema version, the only difference is you are still hearing the 3 bees combined, but spatially? The freedom from BED channel coding should be night and day.

My humble take of how it now works.

"I have spoken."

Last edited by CP850-CLED; 12-03-2019 at 11:26 PM.
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