Bypass ARC to get Atmos TrueHD? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By sanj101
  • 1 Post By lchiu7
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 9 Old 01-26-2020, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Bypass ARC to get Atmos TrueHD?

Hi everyone. I've been scanning these forums and other places on the net to help with a decision which depends on whether I can get good Atmos from one system vs another. I recently bought the Samsung Q80 QLED 75" TV and really enjoy it but then got a deal and picked up a smaller 65" LG C9 television since I heard it had newer features (including eARC and HDMI 2.1). I prefer the larger size of the Samsung but I don't want to miss out on good quality Atmos. I spent a good amount of money building a 5.1.4 Atmos system.

I'm reading everywhere that ARC (which the Samsung has) can only support lossy Atmos through Dolby Digital Plus, whereas eARC (such as with the LG) can support much higher bandwith Atmos through TrueHD. My question is though if I connect all my devices (including my Bluray player which supports Atmos TrueHD) to my Marantz 6013 receiver and then via ARC to the Samsung, would I get TrueHD Atmos? My guess was that yes I would since my receiver would get the audio signal first and be able to output the lossless audio to my speakers but not sure if somehow the ARC with the TV, which happens more downstream of that, would somehow convert the steam back to Dolby Digital Plus?

Thanks.
sanj101 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 Old 01-26-2020, 09:55 PM
Senior Member
 
mobileES's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanj101 View Post
Hi everyone. I've been scanning these forums and other places on the net to help with a decision which depends on whether I can get good Atmos from one system vs another. I recently bought the Samsung Q80 QLED 75" TV and really enjoy it but then got a deal and picked up a smaller 65" LG C9 television since I heard it had newer features (including eARC and HDMI 2.1). I prefer the larger size of the Samsung but I don't want to miss out on good quality Atmos. I spent a good amount of money building a 5.1.4 Atmos system.

I'm reading everywhere that ARC (which the Samsung has) can only support lossy Atmos through Dolby Digital Plus, whereas eARC (such as with the LG) can support much higher bandwith Atmos through TrueHD. My question is though if I connect all my devices (including my Bluray player which supports Atmos TrueHD) to my Marantz 6013 receiver and then via ARC to the Samsung, would I get TrueHD Atmos? My guess was that yes I would since my receiver would get the audio signal first and be able to output the lossless audio to my speakers but not sure if somehow the ARC with the TV, which happens more downstream of that, would somehow convert the steam back to Dolby Digital Plus?

Thanks.
I might have misunderstood your question. Any device connected to your Atmos AVR that supports Atmos you will get Atmos. Since your tv (Samsung) does not have eARC, anything sent to the AVR from it will be Dolby Digital at best. If you plugged the BD player into the tv then downstreamed through the ARC you would be limited to the TV's capabilities with would be DD.

Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 | Samsung 65" 4K KS8000 Series | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Player | Sony DVP-S7700 DVD Player | Onkyo TX-NR3030 Atmos Network Receiver | Energy Veritas 6.3 mains | Energy C-C1 center | Energy C-R100 surround sides and backs | (4) Energy Take Classic satellites heights | Velodyne VA 1215 XII Sub
mobileES is offline  
post #3 of 9 Old 01-26-2020, 10:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rontalley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,278
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 839 Post(s)
Liked: 433
If your device is plugged into the AVR, then the AVR will do the decoding. Audio Return Channel (ARC) is for returning audio through HDMI when the source is not connecting to the AVR. So no, the TV will not send the audio back. However, if your “source” is the TV then yes, it will return the audio back to the AVR.

Examples:

SmartTV using a SmartApp on the TV is now the source. The AVR will play the SmartApp audio via ARC.

BD Player is connected to the AVR. The AVR will send both the video and audio to the TV but will decode the audio at the AVR and play TrueHD to the speakers. There’s really no need to “return” the audio.

My Media Room
AVR 1-Yamaha RX-A3050 (7.2.4), AVR 2 Pioneer VSX-815-K(Used for 4ch Amp TF+TR)
Mains-Polk Audio RTi8, Center-Polk Audio CSi5, Surrounds-Polk Audio RTi4, Ceilings-Micca M-8C, Sub 1- UM18-22 (4cu.ft DIY) - iNuke 6000DSP, Sub 2-Klipsch RW12D
Projector-BenQ 3550 4K, Screen-110" Silver Ticket STR-169110, TV-Vizio P-65 4K
rontalley is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 9 Old 01-27-2020, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobileES View Post
I might have misunderstood your question. Any device connected to your Atmos AVR that supports Atmos you will get Atmos. Since your tv (Samsung) does not have eARC, anything sent to the AVR from it will be Dolby Digital at best. If you plugged the BD player into the tv then downstreamed through the ARC you would be limited to the TV's capabilities with would be DD.
Thanks @mobileES . You understood the question correctly. Makes sense, maybe too much sense :-) Unfortunately I got confused and thrown off by all the articles I read about ARC and eARC.
sanj101 is offline  
post #5 of 9 Old 01-27-2020, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
If your device is plugged into the AVR, then the AVR will do the decoding. Audio Return Channel (ARC) is for returning audio through HDMI when the source is not connecting to the AVR. So no, the TV will not send the audio back. However, if your “source” is the TV then yes, it will return the audio back to the AVR.

Examples:

SmartTV using a SmartApp on the TV is now the source. The AVR will play the SmartApp audio via ARC.

BD Player is connected to the AVR. The AVR will send both the video and audio to the TV but will decode the audio at the AVR and play TrueHD to the speakers. There’s really no need to “return” the audio.
Thanks @rontalley . Pretty intuitive. It's nice when technology does that. The articles on ARC and eARC didn't speak to this particular scenario – I think they were all just assuming someone was going to connect sources to TV first. So this brings up a general question then about the usefulness eARC. If someone's TV only has ARC, sounds like in order to be safer everything should be connected to the AVR first and then use the ARC to to TV. However with eARC the advantage is that all the components can be connected directly into the TV and eARC. Is that correct? If so it seems that either way you have a several wires going either to AVR or TV, so I really don't see any big advantage of eARC if one has an AVR that can handle all of the source inputs?

Thanks.
sanj101 is offline  
post #6 of 9 Old 01-28-2020, 03:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rontalley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,278
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 839 Post(s)
Liked: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanj101 View Post
Thanks @rontalley . Pretty intuitive. It's nice when technology does that. The articles on ARC and eARC didn't speak to this particular scenario – I think they were all just assuming someone was going to connect sources to TV first. So this brings up a general question then about the usefulness eARC. If someone's TV only has ARC, sounds like in order to be safer everything should be connected to the AVR first and then use the ARC to to TV. However with eARC the advantage is that all the components can be connected directly into the TV and eARC. Is that correct? If so it seems that either way you have a several wires going either to AVR or TV, so I really don't see any big advantage of eARC if one has an AVR that can handle all of the source inputs?

Thanks.
A lot of TVs are “Smart” nowadays and have built in Apps. To get the sound from the TV to the AVR or Soundbar you were limited to lossy audio formats. You have regular analog out, spdif and ARC. None of these offered the higher audio resolutions such as TrueHD or DTS Master. That’s the real advantage of eARC. Also, everyone doesn’t have an AVR a higher number of inputs and may have Soundbars with limited inputs. This is another scenario where connecting all of your sources to the TV makes sense.

However, you would typically connect your other sources directly to your AVR and only ARC from the TV when using the Tuner or internal Apps.

My Media Room
AVR 1-Yamaha RX-A3050 (7.2.4), AVR 2 Pioneer VSX-815-K(Used for 4ch Amp TF+TR)
Mains-Polk Audio RTi8, Center-Polk Audio CSi5, Surrounds-Polk Audio RTi4, Ceilings-Micca M-8C, Sub 1- UM18-22 (4cu.ft DIY) - iNuke 6000DSP, Sub 2-Klipsch RW12D
Projector-BenQ 3550 4K, Screen-110" Silver Ticket STR-169110, TV-Vizio P-65 4K

Last edited by rontalley; 01-28-2020 at 03:15 AM.
rontalley is offline  
post #7 of 9 Old 01-29-2020, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
A lot of TVs are “Smart” nowadays and have built in Apps. To get the sound from the TV to the AVR or Soundbar you were limited to lossy audio formats. You have regular analog out, spdif and ARC. None of these offered the higher audio resolutions such as TrueHD or DTS Master. That’s the real advantage of eARC. Also, everyone doesn’t have an AVR a higher number of inputs and may have Soundbars with limited inputs. This is another scenario where connecting all of your sources to the TV makes sense.

However, you would typically connect your other sources directly to your AVR and only ARC from the TV when using the Tuner or internal Apps.
Ok. Makes sense. Thanks.
rontalley likes this.
sanj101 is offline  
post #8 of 9 Old 01-29-2020, 11:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lchiu7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
A lot of TVs are “Smart” nowadays and have built in Apps. To get the sound from the TV to the AVR or Soundbar you were limited to lossy audio formats. You have regular analog out, spdif and ARC. None of these offered the higher audio resolutions such as TrueHD or DTS Master. That’s the real advantage of eARC. Also, everyone doesn’t have an AVR a higher number of inputs and may have Soundbars with limited inputs. This is another scenario where connecting all of your sources to the TV makes sense.

However, you would typically connect your other sources directly to your AVR and only ARC from the TV when using the Tuner or internal Apps.
That's what I do. My TV has no source apart from the tuner. I run all my inputs into a Dolby Atmos sound bar which only has one HDMI input but I use a HDMI switch which is remotely controllable. So all my sources (Firestick 4K, BD player, PS3 etc.) get the full benefit of lossless audio (well as good as you can with a sound bar). I use an optical return since my TV doesn't even have ARC but that Toslink return is good enough for the Dolby Digital audio over FTA TV.
rontalley likes this.
lchiu7 is offline  
post #9 of 9 Old 03-17-2020, 10:47 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 2
so dam confusing do u need a hdmi cable capable of 48 gigs for certain format?
Kid Poker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Surround Music Formats

Tags
arc , atmos , dolby digital plus , earc , truehd

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off