Steely Dan - Gaucho - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 7Likes
  • 1 Post By Ovation
  • 1 Post By sworth
  • 2 Post By thehun
  • 3 Post By Bill Mac
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 Old 10-20-2007, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
doubleroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 72
Gaucho is out in several formats...CD, DVD-A, DVD-A (DTS), SACD. I have the CD and DTS version, which is very good. Has anyone ever compared the other formats? Which is better quality, mix, etc. Thanks.
doubleroll is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 10-20-2007, 11:43 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sivadselim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nashvegas
Posts: 16,815
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked: 532
I have both the DVD-A and the SACD. Of course, the mixes are identical. You would think this would be the perfect opportunity to compare the 2 formats. IT'S NOT. There are STILL variables that can't be adequately controlled for in order to 'fairly' do this comparison. Someone here convinced me to 'not even go there' when I first bought my universal player and had bought both versions of Gaucho, with the intention of using them to compare the 2 formats. In retrospect I'm glad that I took their advice, because even if I COULD hear a difference I think it would be very difficult to determine which 'difference' I preferred. And even if I DID have a preference, I didn't want to bias my format preference simply based upon this one single comparison. It could be that I preferred Gaucho on SACD yet if I had another disc in both formats I might actually prefer the DVD-A version. So, I resisted and have never tried comparing them, not in any direct way, anyway. Knowing me, if I did try, I would probably drive myself crazy second-guessing myself.

My advice, if you are debating SACD vs. DVD-A, is to pick the format you, overall, find that you prefer. In my case, based upon ALL my hirez listening, with MY system and with MY settings I, generally, prefer DVD-A over SACD. So, when I'm faced with this decision now, I buy the DVD-A version, as I did with Brothers In Arms and Knoppfler's Shangri-La.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
sivadselim is online now  
post #3 of 21 Old 10-20-2007, 12:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ovation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St. Hubert, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 3,650
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Liked: 182
When faced with this issue, I usually buy the cheaper one.
drh3b likes this.
Ovation is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 21 Old 10-20-2007, 12:23 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sivadselim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nashvegas
Posts: 16,815
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovation View Post

When faced with this issue, I usually buy the cheaper one.

Nothing wrong with that logic.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
sivadselim is online now  
post #5 of 21 Old 10-20-2007, 01:41 PM
Senior Member
 
007james's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 46
I have both the dvd-a and the sacd of Dire Straits and I prefer the dvd-a , even though its a dual disc
007james is offline  
post #6 of 21 Old 10-20-2007, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
doubleroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 72
Maybe I will just stick with the DTS version I already have...
doubleroll is online now  
post #7 of 21 Old 10-20-2007, 03:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
alexg75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Burbank Ca.
Posts: 514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am a HUUGEEE S.D. fan and I of course love Gaucho.I've had the DTS CD of the album since '03 and it's great!
I've used it countless times for reference and demos for friends and clients.
Now from what I understand,the versions that came out as DVD-A and SA-CD were re-mixed by Elliot Scheiner.It wasn't a full blown remix but rather a rebalancing and tweaking of some things that Mr.Scheiner felt he could improve upon over the original 1998 5.1 mix that he did.
I haven't heard them yet as I still listen to my DTS CD.
If I could get a good price on either I'll pick one up.....more importantly if I CAN FIND THEM!
I'll try my local FRY's as they are the only store that I know of that still carries multi-channel DVD-A's,SA-CD's and DTS DVD's.
alexg75 is offline  
post #8 of 21 Old 10-24-2007, 12:32 AM
Tcr
Member
 
Tcr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Angola, Delaware
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think the whole point is to pick the 'ones' that sound the best with your particular system.

I know that's generic, but with different discs there are inherent differences not withstanding the different formats, i.e. producer, mixer, 'real' masters, etc...

I, for one, prefer the BIA Dire Straits in SACD, even though I know it does DSD to PCM in my configuration. However, the Beatles Love DVDA really rocks the house in that format. (just examples)

Loved, I mean absolutely changed my world loved, AJA on original vinyl (btw,still have it) but without an upgrade on equipment to provide the equivilant (meaning expensive TT, phono pre) I'm just not sure that THE difference can be made across the whole field as to the one that is paramount.

"We were children, once, playing with toys..." ~ Steve Winwood
Tcr is offline  
post #9 of 21 Old 06-27-2020, 05:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 7,633
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked: 280
13 years later im doing a listen now. Its the DTS CD. At first listen the 2ch sounds to best, BEST is a little broad, i find the lowend unlistenable in all other surround modes......

Any other thoughts

As of Feb 20th still looking for a Marantz SR7010
**HT Build https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...-door-0-a.html **


DIY HT builds, are 90%planning, 10%construction

Last edited by kgveteran; 06-27-2020 at 07:58 AM.
kgveteran is online now  
post #10 of 21 Old 06-27-2020, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
doubleroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
13 years later im doing a listen now. Its the DTS CD. At first listen the 2ch sounds to best, “best” is a little broad, i find the lowend unlistenable in all other surround modes......

Any other thoughts
Interesting I always enjoyed the surround mode but will need to take a listen as it’s been a while and some system changes have occurred...
doubleroll is online now  
post #11 of 21 Old 06-27-2020, 07:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 7,633
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleroll View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
13 years later im doing a listen now. Its the DTS CD. At first listen the 2ch sounds to best, “bestâ€Â is a little broad, i find the lowend unlistenable in all other surround modes......

Any other thoughts
Interesting I always enjoyed the surround mode but will need to take a listen as it’️s been a while and some system changes have occurred...
My system seems to makes all 5.1 music a little bass heavy, i like to hear what other systems people have and the setup, kinda of a reference point.

Im using a denon x4300(2016model) in a 7.1.4 setup

There’s at least a half dozen options audio wise when you throw in a surround receiver, not implying better, just more options

As of Feb 20th still looking for a Marantz SR7010
**HT Build https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...-door-0-a.html **


DIY HT builds, are 90%planning, 10%construction

Last edited by kgveteran; 06-27-2020 at 07:12 AM.
kgveteran is online now  
post #12 of 21 Old 06-27-2020, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
doubleroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 72
I listened to this DTS version on the following 5.1 systems:
Linn Unidisk Univesal Player, Linn Kinos Analog system controller, Linn Speakers for Front, Center, Surround and Subwoofer.

Sony UBP-X800MK2, Anthem D2v Processor, Linn Speakers for Front, Center, Surround and Subwoofer.

I preferred the all Linn system sound but both were very good and bass was solid.
doubleroll is online now  
post #13 of 21 Old 06-27-2020, 07:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 7,633
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleroll View Post
I listened to this DTS version on the following 5.1 systems:
Linn Unidisk Univesal Player, Linn Kinos Analog system controller, Linn Speakers for Front, Center, Surround and Subwoofer.

Sony UBP-X800MK2, Anthem D2v Processor, Linn Speakers for Front, Center, Surround and Subwoofer.

I preferred the all Linn system sound but both were very good and bass was solid.
So, you have one linn surround spkr system w/sub and two separate ways to listen ? Or two completely different systems...

Im switching between,Direct 2ch and PCM2ch
Heres the difference. Direct input bypasses audyssey and all BM. Stereo input uses audyssey and BM.

As of Feb 20th still looking for a Marantz SR7010
**HT Build https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...-door-0-a.html **


DIY HT builds, are 90%planning, 10%construction

Last edited by kgveteran; 06-27-2020 at 07:54 AM.
kgveteran is online now  
post #14 of 21 Old 06-27-2020, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
doubleroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
So, you have one linn surround spkr system w/sub and two separate ways to listen ? Or two completely different systems...

Im switching between,Direct 2ch and PCM2ch
Heres the difference. Direct input bypasses audyssey and all BM. Stereo input uses audyssey and BM.
One system and had both ways at one point but the Linn Player and AV controller failed. Now I only have the Anthem and Sony with the Linn 5.1 speakers and amps...

I will be swapping out the Anthem with a Lyngdorf soon and will take another listen as Gaucho is one of my test discs.
doubleroll is online now  
post #15 of 21 Old 06-27-2020, 11:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hollywood, U.S.A.
Posts: 1,390
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 673 Post(s)
Liked: 482
Format isn't what makes a disc great or not... the mixing and mastering is. I doubt Steely Dan would have multiple mixes.
drh3b likes this.
sworth is offline  
post #16 of 21 Old 06-27-2020, 11:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 7,633
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 964 Post(s)
Liked: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by sworth View Post
Format isn't what makes a disc great or not... the mixing and mastering is. I doubt Steely Dan would have multiple mixes.
I adjust levels on mostly 80% of the 5.1 audio discs, same true with Bluray concert discs, im never really thrilled out of the box. The 2.0mix is almost always clean, the 2.1 usually needs some sub adjusting, but the bottom end varies too much for me.
I never adjust movie levels, maybe a LFE adj here and there......

Btw i agree about the mix :0)

As of Feb 20th still looking for a Marantz SR7010
**HT Build https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...-door-0-a.html **


DIY HT builds, are 90%planning, 10%construction
kgveteran is online now  
post #17 of 21 Old 06-27-2020, 12:02 PM
Senior Member
 
tre74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 283
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 91
That was a long hiatus for this thread. I just played the "Gaucho" DTS CD the other day. Bass is heavy in DTS surround mode. I usually listen to music in direct mode these days. I like DVD-AUDIOs in Direct mode, SACDs in DSD and flip back and forth with DTS CDs. I thought about getting the DVD-Audio of "Gaucho" but it is just too expensive these days. I like the photos and album information that are available in the DVD-AUDIO format.
tre74 is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old 06-27-2020, 09:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Peter M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,234
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 459 Post(s)
Liked: 427
Have had this DTS-CD for about 20 years ... and yes the bass is hot. I normally dial it back about 3dB. Time Out Of Mind at full blast is epic !

Cheers,
Peter M is offline  
post #19 of 21 Old 06-28-2020, 12:47 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
thehun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: KALIZUELA
Posts: 10,215
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1360 Post(s)
Liked: 1489
The DVD-A version is right on the bass. The early DTS CD's were known to have LFE encoding issues, either too much or too little, the problem arrived from the fact that LFE boost applied for movie tracks should not be applied at all during encoding for music titles, the funny thing is that it was DTS itself who did the encoding I guess they didn't read their own white paper.
impetigo and ti-triodes like this.

De sagittis Hungarorum libera nos, Domine!

You want true diversity? Champion the diversity of thoughts!

The Hun
thehun is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old 06-29-2020, 03:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
impetigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,305
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 447 Post(s)
Liked: 406
Haven't listened to this one much since I bought it last year but I liked it, but I think all Steely Dan and Donald Fagen multichannel mixes (I think I have them all) have been pretty excellent and among my favorites in my collection. Will have to give this one a spin tomorrow. Never disliked a mix for having "too much" bass either. Love bass generally, but maybe I've been watching too much davie504 lol.

VIDEO: Epson 5040UB | Sony 65X900A | Sony 55X900A | Samsung UN40H5500
MEDIA: Oppo UDP 203 | Oppo BDP 103 | Apple TV | Nintendo Switch
RECEIVER: Yamaha Aventage RX-A820
AUDIO: Monitor Audio Silver 100 (front), Monitor Audio Silver C350 (center), Monitor Audio Shadow 25 (rear), Rythmik L22 (sub)
impetigo is offline  
post #21 of 21 Old 06-30-2020, 01:03 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Bill Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 14,653
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2350 Post(s)
Liked: 3652
Quote:
Originally Posted by sworth View Post
Format isn't what makes a disc great or not... the mixing and mastering is. I doubt Steely Dan would have multiple mixes.
The format does make a difference when the mix and mastering are the same. I have Pink Floyd's Division Bell 5.1 mix on DVD and Blu-ray. The SQ of the Blu-ray is much better than the DVD. This is where hi-res is the clear winner over lossy IMO.

I have the Gaucho SACD and the 5.1 mix is excellent. I'd expect that the SACD and DVD-A sound very similar if not identical. Comparing the DTS-CD to the SACD or the DVD-A would be interesting.

Bill

My SACD collection and HRAudio.net Library, getting larger as my wallet gets smaller ;-).

Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE (preamp), SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Oppo UDP-205, UDP-203, BDP-105, BDP-103, BDP-93, BDP-83, Panasonic TC-P60GT50, Panamax 5100EX, Salk HT2-TLs, Salk 1801b center, Salk 1801TL (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
Bill Mac is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Surround Music Formats

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off