Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 1090 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #32671 of 41889 Old 01-28-2018, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
This post is missing far too much information for anyone to really help. Check out this link for the type of information necessary when requesting advise on a purchase.
Thanks Jim. I get it, newb's first post, looks like I didn't do my homework.

Actually, I'm prone to being a bit too verbose. I've posted in detail over at Ascend's forum and didn't get much traction. Was just trying something brief to see if it would build momentum here.

Here's what I started with over there.

--------

I have a 20 x 10 x 7.5 (1500 cu ft) room. I (will soon) have Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 LCR, and HTM-200SE surrounds. This room is for both 5.1 HT and 2.1 music.

Today, I have a single LV12R. I love it, and it adds a lot to both movies and music. I don't have much flexibility in placement, unfortunately. There's room for subs behind my L/R speakers, no bigger than an F18 each.

Factors that matter to me:

1) Capability below 20Hz for ambiance and dynamics in music. The LV12R is good enough to let you "hear the room" with the right recording. But I can't help but wonder if there's more I'm missing.

2) More slam and awe. I want accurate reproduction, but sometimes, who doesn't want to just giggle like a kid?

3) Address room modes. Bass response varies greatly depending on where you sit in the room.

4) Think long-term. I'm prone to upgradeitis. If I get another LV12R I bet I'll love it, and yet still wonder if I shouldn't go bigger.


I'm currently between selling the LV12R and buying two LVX12, or a single F18 (to start). Enrico suggested F18, but I'm still on the fence. Talk sense into me!
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post #32672 of 41889 Old 01-28-2018, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kdaq View Post
Actually, I'm prone to being a bit too verbose. I've posted in detail over at Ascend's forum and didn't get much traction. Was just trying something brief to see if it would build momentum here.
Maybe verbose is better; we're still missing budget and aesthetic considerations, key decision making points. There is enough to get started though...


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Originally Posted by kdaq View Post
1) Capability below 20Hz for ambiance and dynamics in music. The LV12R is good enough to let you "hear the room" with the right recording. But I can't help but wonder if there's more I'm missing.
Very little music has sub-20Hz content, that's typically more associated to movie soundtracks. What genre of music are you referring to? How loud do you listen? Very deep bass + high volume = an awful lot of subwooferage.


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Originally Posted by kdaq View Post
I have a 20 x 10 x 7.5 (1500 cu ft) room. I (will soon) have Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 LCR, and HTM-200SE surrounds. This room is for both 5.1 HT and 2.1 music.

Today, I have a single LV12R. I love it, and it adds a lot to both movies and music. I don't have much flexibility in placement, unfortunately. There's room for subs behind my L/R speakers, no bigger than an F18 each.

Factors that matter to me:

2) More slam and awe. I want accurate reproduction, but sometimes, who doesn't want to just giggle like a kid?

3) Address room modes. Bass response varies greatly depending on where you sit in the room.

4) Think long-term. I'm prone to upgradeitis. If I get another LV12R I bet I'll love it, and yet still wonder if I shouldn't go bigger.

I'm currently between selling the LV12R and buying two LVX12, or a single F18 (to start). Enrico suggested F18, but I'm still on the fence. Talk sense into me!
How limited are your placement options? You mention wanting to address room modes, but to resolve that requires freedom of placement. That's perhaps the first item you need to consider as pretty much everything else hinges off of it. For example, if you want more "slam and awe" a pair of LVX12's will certainly do the trick in a 1500 ft^3 area, but you may not have room to accommodate both and be able to locate them such that they'll mitigate those modes. In that case one beastly sub might give you want you want - performance wise - but wouldn't solve the room modes.

 
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post #32673 of 41889 Old 01-28-2018, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdaq View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
This post is missing far too much information for anyone to really help. Check out this link for the type of information necessary when requesting advise on a purchase.
Thanks Jim. I get it, newb's first post, looks like I didn't do my homework.

Actually, I'm prone to being a bit too verbose. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] I've posted in detail over at Ascend's forum and didn't get much traction. Was just trying something brief to see if it would build momentum here.

Here's what I started with over there.

--------

I have a 20 x 10 x 7.5 (1500 cu ft) room. I (will soon) have Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 LCR, and HTM-200SE surrounds. This room is for both 5.1 HT and 2.1 music.

Today, I have a single LV12R. I love it, and it adds a lot to both movies and music. I don't have much flexibility in placement, unfortunately. There's room for subs behind my L/R speakers, no bigger than an F18 each.

Factors that matter to me:

1) Capability below 20Hz for ambiance and dynamics in music. The LV12R is good enough to let you "hear the room" with the right recording. But I can't help but wonder if there's more I'm missing.

2) More slam and awe. I want accurate reproduction, but sometimes, who doesn't want to just giggle like a kid?

3) Address room modes. Bass response varies greatly depending on where you sit in the room.

4) Think long-term. I'm prone to upgradeitis. If I get another LV12R I bet I'll love it, and yet still wonder if I shouldn't go bigger.


I'm currently between selling the LV12R and buying two LVX12, or a single F18 (to start). Enrico suggested F18, but I'm still on the fence. Talk sense into me! [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Consider 2 L22s or E15HP2s. Should get excellent results in your room size. Especially under 20Hz.

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post #32674 of 41889 Old 01-28-2018, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdaq View Post
Actually, I'm prone to being a bit too verbose. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] I've posted in detail over at Ascend's forum and didn't get much traction. Was just trying something brief to see if it would build momentum here.
Maybe verbose is better; we're still missing budget and aesthetic considerations, key decision making points. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG] There is enough to get started though...


Quote:
Originally Posted by kdaq View Post
1) Capability below 20Hz for ambiance and dynamics in music. The LV12R is good enough to let you "hear the room" with the right recording. But I can't help but wonder if there's more I'm missing.
Very little music has sub-20Hz content, that's typically more associated to movie soundtracks. What genre of music are you referring to? How loud do you listen? Very deep bass + high volume = an awful lot of subwooferage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kdaq View Post
I have a 20 x 10 x 7.5 (1500 cu ft) room. I (will soon) have Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 LCR, and HTM-200SE surrounds. This room is for both 5.1 HT and 2.1 music.

Today, I have a single LV12R. I love it, and it adds a lot to both movies and music. I don't have much flexibility in placement, unfortunately. There's room for subs behind my L/R speakers, no bigger than an F18 each.

Factors that matter to me:

2) More slam and awe. I want accurate reproduction, but sometimes, who doesn't want to just giggle like a kid?

3) Address room modes. Bass response varies greatly depending on where you sit in the room.

4) Think long-term. I'm prone to upgradeitis. If I get another LV12R I bet I'll love it, and yet still wonder if I shouldn't go bigger.

I'm currently between selling the LV12R and buying two LVX12, or a single F18 (to start). Enrico suggested F18, but I'm still on the fence. Talk sense into me! [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
How limited are your placement options? You mention wanting to address room modes, but to resolve that requires freedom of placement. That's perhaps the first item you need to consider as pretty much everything else hinges off of it. For example, if you want more "slam and awe" a pair of LVX12's will certainly do the trick in a 1500 ft^3 area, but you may not have room to accommodate both and be able to locate them such that they'll mitigate those modes. In that case one beastly sub might give you want you want - performance wise - but wouldn't solve the room modes.
I think something with a small footprint like the L22 would work very nicely in terms of both output and extension in that small room size.

FWIW, I have a single LV12R in a ~1200 cu ft and it is plenty musical in high damping mode.

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post #32675 of 41889 Old 01-28-2018, 08:06 PM
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Yup, dual L22 would probably be fantastic. Only thing is a cube that I can sit on is a high want for me, as the subs would block access to wiring behind my TV / AVR (I have hobby things I futz with back there, like raspberry pis with DACs and such), and would be difficult to move in my setup. That's why I was thinking LVX12 over L22.

Placement behind my L/R speakers is the only option. It's a good point that duals might not help modes at all when I'm this restricted.

Definitely leaning F18. (Dual 15s would be nice but are cost prohibitive, and I rather spring for an 18 and not wonder if I was missing something anyway.). Thanks for the feedback.
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post #32676 of 41889 Old 01-28-2018, 09:38 PM
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Yup, dual L22 would probably be fantastic. Only thing is a cube that I can sit on is a high want for me, as the subs would block access to wiring behind my TV / AVR (I have hobby things I futz with back there, like raspberry pis with DACs and such), and would be difficult to move in my setup. That's why I was thinking LVX12 over L22.

Placement behind my L/R speakers is the only option. It's a good point that duals might not help modes at all when I'm this restricted.

Definitely leaning F18. (Dual 15s would be nice but are cost prohibitive, and I rather spring for an 18 and not wonder if I was missing something anyway.). Thanks for the feedback.
if that's the case a F18 is a solid choice

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post #32677 of 41889 Old 01-28-2018, 11:06 PM
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i guess rythmik should have supplied my pair of subs with some birth control...

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post #32678 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 12:22 AM
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Just placed an order for the FV18...very excited to rock this monster, but scared as hell at the idea of trying to manhandle it into my house.

I'll be replacing my old Paradigm PW-2200, which decided to die just before New Year's. It was OK in my old 16 x 13 listening room but a little underwhelming in my new 6000+ cubic foot room. Can't wait!
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post #32679 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 01:54 PM
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Just placed an order for the FV18...very excited to rock this monster, but scared as hell at the idea of trying to manhandle it into my house.
thankfully it ships in layers of cardboard & foam which makes it much easier to move without risk of damaging it. i had to slide mine on my driveway, down a flight of tiled stairs, and on carpet. rythmik did an excellent job of packaging the subs to keep them safe.
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post #32680 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 01:57 PM
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Apologize for not talking sub. Took my kids to see the new Maze Runner (very good bass) over the weekend and noticed the center channel in real movie theater sounds waaaay better than my center channel at my home theater or any center channel of those hometheaters I have been to. Another word, I have not heard real cinema center channel reproduction at home, any home. Do you guys experience/notice the same thing? What does it take to bring that center channel sound home? TIA.
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post #32681 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:04 PM
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Apologize for not talking sub. Took my kids to see the new Maze Runner (very good bass) over the weekend and noticed the center channel in real movie theater sounds waaaay better than my center channel at my home theater or any center channel of those hometheaters I have been to. Another word, I have not heard real cinema center channel reproduction at home, any home. Do you guys experience/notice the same thing? What does it take to bring that center channel sound home? TIA.
I notice it too. Maybe this would help.

http://jtrspeakers.com/noesis-215rm.html
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post #32682 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:05 PM
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Apologize for not talking sub. Took my kids to see the new Maze Runner (very good bass) over the weekend and noticed the center channel in real movie theater sounds waaaay better than my center channel at my home theater or any center channel of those hometheaters I have been to. Another word, I have not heard real cinema center channel reproduction at home, any home. Do you guys experience/notice the same thing? What does it take to bring that center channel sound home? TIA.
I think I know what you mean. The center channel at the movies sounds deep, full, and like the entire front wall of the theater is 1 giant speaker. I would imagine to reproduce the effect at home you would probably need to somehow have the center channel audio coming out of multiple center positioned speakers, and they'd likely need to be truly full range. Also, I might not know what the heck im talking about.

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post #32683 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Apologize for not talking sub. Took my kids to see the new Maze Runner (very good bass) over the weekend and noticed the center channel in real movie theater sounds waaaay better than my center channel at my home theater or any center channel of those hometheaters I have been to. Another word, I have not heard real cinema center channel reproduction at home, any home. Do you guys experience/notice the same thing? What does it take to bring that center channel sound home? TIA.
like the others have said, you need a transparent screen with multiple full range speakers behind it to pull off the effect. using a single speaker below the display/screen isn't enough but it's all most can do.


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post #32684 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:11 PM
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I notice it too. Maybe this would help.

http://jtrspeakers.com/noesis-215rm.html
I have been to an Avser's home featuring 3 of those and no, it does not sound like real cinema dialog.
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post #32685 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Apologize for not talking sub. Took my kids to see the new Maze Runner (very good bass) over the weekend and noticed the center channel in real movie theater sounds waaaay better than my center channel at my home theater or any center channel of those hometheaters I have been to. Another word, I have not heard real cinema center channel reproduction at home, any home. Do you guys experience/notice the same thing? What does it take to bring that center channel sound home? TIA.


Something I have read recently which makes sense is that our center channel speakers are placed horizontal and will likely performs better if they were placed vertical like the left and right. Not sure how true that is or gets you the theatrical experience but thought I would share. I also think they probably boost their center channel quite a bit?


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post #32686 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:15 PM
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like the others have said, you need a transparent screen with multiple full range speakers behind it to pull off the effect. using a single speaker below the display/screen isn't enough but it's all most can do.
Yes, RMK' room features 3 JTR215's running full range without sub behind an AT screen and no, real cinema dialog is better IMO.
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post #32687 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:16 PM
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Something I have read recently which makes sense is that our center channel speakers are placed horizontal and will likely performs better if they were placed vertical like the left and right. Not sure how true that is or gets you the theatrical experience but thought I would share. I also think they probably boost their center channel quite a bit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
that shouldn't matter as the tweeter (diaphragm?--unsure of exact terminology) in a center channel is rotated 90 degrees to account for the horizontal positioning.


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post #32688 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:17 PM
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Something I have read recently which makes sense is that our center channel speakers are placed horizontal and will likely performs better if they were placed vertical like the left and right. Not sure how true that is or gets you the theatrical experience but thought I would share. I also think they probably boost their center channel quite a bit?


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Yes vertical center is better. Mine and many home theaters i have been to are like that.
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post #32689 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:22 PM
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I think I know what you mean. The center channel at the movies sounds deep, full, and like the entire front wall of the theater is 1 giant speaker.
. EXACTLY
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I would imagine to reproduce the effect at home you would probably need to somehow have the center channel audio coming out of multiple center positioned speakers
but we only have one center channel. Connecting more than one speakers into a single center out could make thing worse.
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post #32690 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:23 PM
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my feelings on the center are that they need to play loud and crisp...I almost like my klipsch horn center better than my focal cc....everything in a movie theater is bigger badder than most homes...well except the bass imo.

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post #32691 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:25 PM
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There is only ONE array center speaker in real cinema right?
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post #32692 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:27 PM
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I also think they probably boost their center channel quite a bit?
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Should we then?
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post #32693 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:31 PM
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I have my center +2 and my L/R -6

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post #32694 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:31 PM
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It seems they crossover the center very high as i can clearly hear the bass from dialog or they run a center full range with a BIG array center speaker. As an experiment, I am planning to run my crossover at 200hz to see if I can replicate that sound.
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post #32695 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Should we then?


In my case I am so close to the center that I don’t miss anything. Audyssey sets it the lowest as it’s so close and I don’t mess with it. Possibly more than one center and boosted? I see pics of these systems where folks have walls of speakers. I assume they double up on everything


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post #32696 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
It seems they crossover the center very high as i can clearly hear the bass from dialog or they run a center full range with a BIG array center speaker. As an experiment, I am planning to run my crossover at 200hz to see if I can replicate that sound.


That would be interesting but thought we would not want to have like deep male voices coming from the subs. But I guess as long as it sounds good right?


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post #32697 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:37 PM
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^^ wall of speakers= wall of subs.
My center is loud and clear but it does not have that real cinema sound. Again, I haven’t heard a home theater with that real cinema dialogue yet and I have been to place where a center speaker cost more than $3k.
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post #32698 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ wall of speakers= wall of subs.

My center is loud and clear but it does not have that real cinema sound. Again, I haven’t heard a home theater with that real cinema dialogue yet and I have been to place where a center speaker cost more than $3k.


May be @Mark Seaton can enlighten us?


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post #32699 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
That would be interesting but thought we would not want to have like deep male voices coming from the subs. But I guess as long as it sounds good right?


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I have 4 subs in 4 corners and my bass seems to lock onto the front screen.
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post #32700 of 41889 Old 01-29-2018, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
. EXACTLY
but we only have one center channel. Connecting more than one speakers into a single center out could make thing worse.
Yeah, that wouldn't be ideal. Although, there aren't any audio tracks (that I know of) or formats that contain more than 1 center image. So I still say you would need to be repeating the center speaker signal to multiple center channel speakers. Likely running the center pre out into multiple amps in some type of parallel wiring to keep voltage from pre/pro.

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Should we then?
Only if you need to for dialogue intelligibility. I've found the more in increase center channel volume, the less I get out of my front left and right speakers since they become over powered by the center.

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