Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 1159 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #34741 of 39455 Old 08-06-2018, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
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Originally Posted by slimDub13 View Post
LFE v Line - in

Looking for the most articulate and effortless thump without the boom in a 19' x 15' space.
About 90% music and 10% video.

Trying to get the best possible integration between my speakers and my dual LV12Rs.
Post Audyssey (known to neuter bass!!):
I could use the LFE in on the subs and do Bass Management on the Pre Pro and just set the crossover at 80.

Alternatively i could use the Line-In.
Does using the Line-In option requre setting the crossover on the sub amp in addition to the crossover set in the Pre-Pro?

Is there a case for using one input option over the other?

Appreciate any feedback.


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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
For the Line In controls on LV12R (compact amp on L models, not premium one on F models) set crossover knob to max (120Hz) and LPF slope to 12dB, also leave phase/delay knob at the minimum 0 degrees/0 ms position.

After running Audyssey, set speakers to small/80Hz (if set lower than 80Hz or large... if set small/above 80Hz do not change).

I find Line In is clearer when running things hot, because the stuff above 100Hz is a lot more rolled off. However, you cannot use crossovers in AVR above 100Hz in Line In, because it doesn't extend past 100Hz.
Unless you need the crossover or PEQ you should use LFE in. Especially with Audyssey one should use LFE in. If you'd like to roll-off more content above 100Hz you can adjust the LFE LPF in a Denon or Marantz (as low as 80Hz).

The LPF on the plate amp affects phase. If you are switching between LFE and Line in or even changing the slope you should run Room EQ (and the Sub Distance Tweak) again.
Definitely. I never change those settings post-room correction, with the exception of the PEQ in some cases.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
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post #34742 of 39455 Old 08-06-2018, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dtlocke View Post
You are welcome. I was especially worried about cable quality due to the long runs for line level & sub... And it was nice to specify only the length I really needed, versus a "stock" length. But the Bluerigger looks like a great budget choice for a sub cable

For my rear speaker run, that InstallGear cable is both good looking (which to me means is dark and blends in with the room, I'm running it along the floor) and nice and flexible even at 12 gauge. I looked at speaker cable for a long time and am very happy with that choice. Sadly, I used the 100' roll already.
This is 14awg going behind my surrounds:

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I wish I could run 12awg, but it's a no-go. I calculate about a 1.7-1.8% voltage drop at 35 feet, which is my longest run, so I should be okay with the 14. I think any longer than that and you'd want 12awg.

And I think I just made an argument against 12awg for the short runs to my mains, but there's that whole "peace of mind" thing... (rolling eyes at myself, not you)
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HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)

Last edited by Soulburner; 08-06-2018 at 04:58 PM.
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post #34743 of 39455 Old 08-06-2018, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Wondering everyone’s opinions on this. I have a small (very small - 6’ x 9’) office space I am building in my basement that I am completely sound proofing. It’s going to have 2 layers of 5/8” drywall on both sides and Roxol soundproofing insulation. The door is even a piece of wall on a swing hinge so that it too has the drywall and insulation barrier. My wife works in the basement as well and I wanted to try to make my space as sound proof as I can for music listening while I work at volumes that won’t disturb phone calls she may have.

My pan was to get an L12 for the space but s family friend has offered an older but in perfect condition Velodyne DD-15 (not the newer + model) for $550. What is everyone’s thoughts here as to which I should go for. I have the space for both next to my desk. The Velodyne is older, but even the DD-15 still goes for around $1200 in what I can find. It also has servo tech from what I’ve read. I’m loyal to Rythmik due to the great performance i get out of my dual FV15HPs and their great customer service, but this sort of seems like a good deal I should go for?
I will be writing my thoughts in a few days on Rythmik v. Velodyne, but my short conclusion is the base L series is the equivilant of the HGS, without reliability issues and the same price for new v a used velodyne, and the F series is miles ahead. This is 100% music, I don’t watch movies.
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post #34744 of 39455 Old 08-06-2018, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CDMC2 View Post
I will be writing my thoughts in a few days on Rythmik v. Velodyne, but my short conclusion is the base L series is the equivilant of the HGS, without reliability issues and the same price for new v a used velodyne, and the F series is miles ahead. This is 100% music, I don’t watch movies.

my sealed hgs 12 did 110db in my space...my rythmik fv15hp did 117db....thats a big difference.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #34745 of 39455 Old 08-07-2018, 08:47 AM
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Boo - my L12 delivery was delayed. I feel like this happened before with my FV15HP and sort of remember people talking about the shipments out of the local UPS hub near the Rythmik guys having this problem often with their Subs. Am I just making stuff up? Oh well, not the end of the world - especially considering I still have to tape, spackle, and paint my office construction!

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| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
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post #34746 of 39455 Old 08-08-2018, 07:44 AM
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Hey look, my FV15HPs had an L12 baby! Haha please excuse the rats nest of wires which will be cleaned up once I complete construction of the walls around this room. Played army of one first with it and WOW it packs a nice punch and is as tight and articulate as I’d expect. A+ once again.


| 7.2.4 Photos (Updated Photos 1/5) | Frequency Response | Visual: LG 65” B7A OLED | Elite VMAX-2 Electric 120" | Optoma GT1080 Proj |
| AVR/Amps: Marantz SR-6011 9C | Audio Source AMP-100VS | iNuke 1000DSP; TTs: 4x AuraSound Pro |
| Center: B&W CM Center 2 S2 Ed | Fronts: 2x B&W 684 S1s | Side Surrounds: 2x B&W 685 S1 |
| Front/Rear Heights: 4x Polk T15 | In-Ceiling: 2x Micca M-8C | Subs: 2x Rythmik FV15HP |
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post #34747 of 39455 Old 08-08-2018, 08:54 AM
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Hey look, my FV15HPs had an L12 baby! Haha please excuse the rats nest of wires which will be cleaned up once I complete construction of the walls around this room...
I always say I'm going to get my cabling all squared away and in order every time I get a new piece of electronics, it just never seems to happen. I tried with my latest acquisition of a pre-pro to use cable ties, etc, when wiring everything so they were all tied going up the legs of the rack, but I had to trouble shoot a couple no sound issues, snipped the ties, swapped cables, and wound up with a rat's nest all over again. <sigh>

Display: Vizio P55-E1l Pre-pro: Marantz 7703; Amps: Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2, Emotiva XPA-3 Gen 1, H/K AVR 520 (direct in to amps); Sources: Sony UBP-X700; X-box 1 S; Technics 1200 Mk II; Win10 PC for digital; Phono Preamp: Emotiva XPS-1; Speakers - LR: Philharmonic BMR LR, Center: Emotiva Airmotiv C2; Surrounds: Wharfedale Reva-2; Rear Surrounds: Wharfedale Diamond 220; Atmos: TF - Monoprice Alpha 8; TR - BIC VI-38; Subwoofers: dual Rythmik L22s
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post #34748 of 39455 Old 08-08-2018, 09:05 AM
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Easy to clean and cable management are the main reasons I went with Ikea Bekant desks for my home office.
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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | 92" Stewart ST100 | Sony VW295ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |

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post #34749 of 39455 Old 08-08-2018, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Hey look, my FV15HPs had an L12 baby! Haha please excuse the rats nest of wires which will be cleaned up once I complete construction of the walls around this room. Played army of one first with it and WOW it packs a nice punch and is as tight and articulate as I’d expect. A+ once again.

It makes a great footrest or a foot massage rather
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post #34750 of 39455 Old 08-08-2018, 05:02 PM
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Enrico, are kits for the F18 and F28 back in stock? I am well and truly about ready to order, after months of delays?

What is the recommended volume of the box for these kits?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

System
Transducers: Revel Concerta2 F36 (3), M16 (4); Tannoy AMS 6DC (4); Rythmik F18 (2)
Front end: NAD T758 v3; Outlaw Model 7125
Sources: Panasonic UB820; Oppo BDP-103; Toshiba HD-A2
Projection: JVC DLA-RS440; Seymour CenterStage UF retractable 110" 2.35:1

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post #34751 of 39455 Old 08-08-2018, 08:56 PM
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I had Lvx12 for a week now and been rewatching some of my movies. I'm not an audiophile but watching tron legacy i can really felt the bass on my body and room fill with bass. But playing flight of the phoenix with plane fying in the storm i dont feel it with lvx12 but i felt it before with my ED A3-300 feeling like yor also inside the plane. Does this movies had different frequencies or i still need to tune up my lvx12.Thanks.
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post #34752 of 39455 Old 08-08-2018, 09:07 PM
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when it comes to subs, you gotta measure. how the heck we suppose to know whats the problem in your room w/out measurements? you dont need rew even tho its free...you could use a phone app and downloadable tones.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #34753 of 39455 Old 08-09-2018, 05:43 AM
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I had a umik1 mic started configuring thru rew but i stop bec use during config there is an issue on output sound and input mic when you select output first umik1 is not available and if you input umik1 first output is not available. And some others say that you need to reinstall windows but i didnt bother anymore.

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post #34754 of 39455 Old 08-09-2018, 06:00 AM
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Check out the REW thread in the Theory subforum or email them for help.

There could be several reasons for differences in output; here are a couple.

Placement and frequency response in a room are tightly coupled in the bass region. If the sub or MLP are in slightly different spots the sound could change dramatically (goes for main speakers as well). And how the AVR compensates for phase/delay differences also matters; a change in phase (or distance setting) could also dramatically change how a sub sounds. Room modes and boundary reflections (SBIR) can change the amplitude of certain frequencies at the MLP; from increases of maybe 3-6 db, to almost infinite decreases (20-30 dB or more nulls are common).

Google Loudness Curve and take a look at how we hear, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour It takes much higher SPL for us to hear deep bass at the same (perceived) loudness as higher frequencies. Where this applies to subs is that a little bit of distortion can be much easier to hear than the fundamental frequency. If you play an 80 Hz tone, the second harmonic distortion at 160 Hz is much easier to hear. That means a sub with much lower distortion (*ahem* Rythmik) may not sound as loud as one with higher distortion because the distortion is easier to hear. So the louder sub is not always the better sub. There are many great subs with low distortion, Rythmik among them, but it is fairly common IME for a new listener to feel the lower-distortion sub has lower output at first. After some listening you realize how much deeper and cleaner is the bass and most of us do not want to go back.

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #34755 of 39455 Old 08-09-2018, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axlemay View Post
I had Lvx12 for a week now and been rewatching some of my movies. I'm not an audiophile but watching tron legacy i can really felt the bass on my body and room fill with bass. But playing flight of the phoenix with plane fying in the storm i dont feel it with lvx12 but i felt it before with my ED A3-300 feeling like yor also inside the plane. Does this movies had different frequencies or i still need to tune up my lvx12.Thanks.

Double check the LFE setting on AVR or DVD player. It sounds like the response of the mid-bass may not be correct. Are Tron Legacy and flight of Phenoix in the same audio format? Some AVRs have separate adjustment for each audio format.
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post #34756 of 39455 Old 08-09-2018, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axlemay View Post
I had Lvx12 for a week now and been rewatching some of my movies. I'm not an audiophile but watching tron legacy i can really felt the bass on my body and room fill with bass. But playing flight of the phoenix with plane fying in the storm i dont feel it with lvx12 but i felt it before with my ED A3-300 feeling like yor also inside the plane. Does this movies had different frequencies or i still need to tune up my lvx12.Thanks.

Double check the LFE setting on AVR or DVD player. It sounds like the response of the mid-bass may not be correct. Are Tron Legacy and flight of Phenoix in the same audio format? Some AVRs have separate adjustment for each audio format.
The avr setting originally after mcacc cal..is at -9 and @ sub gain at 1 'clock. Right now its on -6 and @ sub gain at 2'clock. Their format is the same dts-hd. But sometimes when playing music i dont hear no bass then after a while i hear it. Seems like sub receive intermittent signal.
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post #34757 of 39455 Old 08-09-2018, 06:50 PM
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Does the sub's amplifier have an off/auto/on switch? If so, try setting it to ON and see if that helps. Perhaps the autosense circuit is shutting down.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #34758 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Norixone View Post
First of all you must be aware that Ypao does not set the levels to match 75 dB. If you do more than a 1 point measurement you will get a setting that sets your mains to 0 dB and adjusts the other chanels based on this. Unfortunately, the levels are all off by quite some margin. I am using a calibrated mic to set my levels and this provides the best result possible. I also recommend to use Rew to check your base and phase at the crossover frequency between mains and subs as also these are quite off. For the way I like to listen to music, I have done everything manually and use line in and time delay control on the subs. Another thing you need to be aware of is that if you use the double bass function in conjunction with the large setting in speaker management and straight for DSP effect on your Yamaha, the main speakers are cut at 40 hz and there is no way to bypass this function. Another important factor is the rolloff setting you use on the subs. Mine integrate better with the 24 dB roll off. It is not easy to integrate the mains with the subs without an instrument like Rew and with the Rhythmik subs I found it impossible playing simply by ear.
Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of the 75db thing with YPAO. Maybe that's an Audyssey thing. I'm sure I'm not aware of a lot of things and should probably do some more reading. I did check some of my settings and Extra Bass is off. I also set the speakers to Small and the Crossovers to 80hz after running YPAO.

I certainly got dramatically different results with YPAO running multi-point measurements compared to a single point measurement. Things certainly seem to sound much better to me using the single point measurement.

I'm using LFE In on both of my subs. I guess that is the most simplistic approach and means I'm not using any of the "rolloff" settings on the sub?

Maybe someday I'll break out the whips and chains and try manual calibration. Is that what people are doing when they talk REW, UMIK, Mini-DSP etc.? I know absolutely nothing about any of that stuff. Is that a manual approach to what YPAO, Audyssey, ARC etc. are doing in terms of room EQ?
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post #34759 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 05:27 AM
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Hi Enrico, i replied to your email eight days ago (2.8) and never got an answer to my email. I forwarded my email to you to mr. Ding three days ago (7.8) but i haven't heard anything from you so can i assume that Rythmik is closed for vacation at the moment? If you are have a great one, we all need time off from work sometimes! Is there a date when you are open again?

Thanks!
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post #34760 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 05:35 AM
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Can you add the ideal subwoofer settings for Audyssey calibration in your website FAQ page?
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post #34761 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 07:36 AM
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@enricoclaudio

Hi Enrico, i replied to your email eight days ago (2.8) and never got an answer to my email. I forwarded my email to you to mr. Ding three days ago (7.8) but i haven't heard anything from you so can i assume that Rythmik is closed for vacation at the moment? If you are have a great one, we all need time off from work sometimes! Is there a date when you are open again?

Thanks!

I got your email. Let me assume your question is about so called "FV15HP2". I need to clarify there is no plan for such model after I built a prototype with 3 ports on a FV15HP enclosure. It failed to show sufficient improvement. That is counter intuitive because a 3-port is supposed to add more port opening area and therefore allow higher output. But in reality the ports need to bend and additional ports and longer ports take away effective enclosure volume. In short if one needs more ports on FV15HP, the logical route is go with FV18. As a result, in order to keep its compact design and straight ports, our plan is to continue FV15HP with current design except we have a revised port cap, potentially reducing the air velocity from the port by 20% or more.
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post #34762 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 08:48 AM
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I got your email. Let me assume your question is about so called "FV15HP2". I need to clarify there is no plan for such model after I built a prototype with 3 ports on a FV15HP enclosure. It failed to show sufficient improvement. That is counter intuitive because a 3-port is supposed to add more port opening area and therefore allow higher output. But in reality the ports need to bend and additional ports and longer ports take away effective enclosure volume. In short if one needs more ports on FV15HP, the logical route is go with FV18. As a result, in order to keep its compact design and straight ports, our plan is to continue FV15HP with current design except we have a revised port cap, potentially reducing the air velocity from the port by 20% or more.
Thank you for reply. And i had another question, is there any problems if i have to use wireless kit with your servosub? I try to install wires to every speaker but just incase.
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post #34763 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 09:07 AM
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Thank you for reply. And i had another question, is there any problems if i have to use wireless kit with your servosub? I try to install wires to every speaker but just incase.
We do not recommend wireless kits unless they have less than 10ms latency. Most subwoofer wireless kits have ridiculous amounts of latency, some of them up to 50ms. The only one I remember with less than 10ms latency was the Outlaw Audio OAW3 but it has been discontinued.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | 92" Stewart ST100 | Sony VW295ES |
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post #34764 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
We do not recommend wireless kits unless they have less than 10ms latency. Most subwoofer wireless kits have ridiculous amounts of latency, some of them up to 50ms. The only one I remember with less than 10ms latency was the Outlaw Audio OAW3 but it has been discontinued.
Ok, good to know. My local audioshop sells SVS Soundpath (?) wireless kit and they say it has <25 ms latency, so that is too much (over double for that 10 ms you said)?
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post #34765 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 10:36 AM
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Ok, good to know. My local audioshop sells SVS Soundpath (?) wireless kit and they say it has <25 ms latency, so that is too much (over double for that 10 ms you said)?
Yes, that's too much latency.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | 92" Stewart ST100 | Sony VW295ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
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post #34766 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 10:37 AM
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That SVS has <25 ms latency, is it too much (over double what you said)?
Forum ate my answer!
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post #34767 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Yes, that's too much latency.
Ok, thanks for fast reply!
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post #34768 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 10:42 AM
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Does the sub's amplifier have an off/auto/on switch? If so, try setting it to ON and see if that helps. Perhaps the autosense circuit is shutting down.
Yes it has already tried that. Though it not occur on heavily bass song. It only occur on some songs where I could notice that theres no bass from sub but i can still hear bass on from the front speaker. My avr crossover is 80hz maybe changing to 100hz.
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post #34769 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 10:59 AM
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That SVS has <25 ms latency, is it too much (over double what you said)?
Forum ate my answer!

1ms is equivalent to 1ft in distance. To compensate that, one needs to set the distance of subwoofer closer to compensate for that. 25ms is like 25ft closer. In addition, the reason the spec cannot give you a fixed number is becasue it may be variable depending its signal quality or interferece of other bluetooth signal in the same room. Variable latency is a bigger problem.
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post #34770 of 39455 Old 08-10-2018, 11:03 AM
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Yes it has already tried that. Though it not occur on heavily bass song. It only occur on some songs where I could notice that theres no bass from sub but i can still hear bass on from the front speaker. My avr crossover is 80hz maybe changing to 100hz.
Another setting that can help is change the AVR sub level to 0db, and turn down the plate amp volume setting by about 4 ticks. This will increase the signal strength to trigger the auto on. I know the recommendation on the forum has been -6db or as low as possible on sub channel level adjustment. But I think 0db is pretty reasonable too.
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