Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 1162 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 13556Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #34831 of 40443 Old 08-14-2018, 11:35 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 12,331
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3271 Post(s)
Liked: 3356
Note that acoustic treatments are generally ineffective in the subwoofer region so there are really two issues: finding the best spot for the sub, and finding the most appropriate places for room treatment for the mains. Placing room treatments can be tricky as it depends on your room and everything in it, the dispersion characteristics of your speakers, your preference for sound, your budget, etc. That said as @CDMC2 said there are lots of online resources and companies that sell product such as GIK and RealTraps offer help. I'd contact a couple or three of them, see what they say, then start slowly as you add treatment to the room.

FWIWFM - Don
audiofan1 likes this.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34832 of 40443 Old 08-14-2018, 01:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,887
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1627
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDMC2 View Post
I don't know if a provider, but suggest you consider GIKAcoustics and do the initial room treatments yourself. They are reasonably priced and if you provide a room layout, will recommend a plan. I can say as a first step, a set of 242 2x4 foot panels on each side at the first reflection points will allow you to move your main speakers closer to the side walls and improve imaging at the same time. Generally for initial treatment, the most benefit is treating early reflections and a few bass traps (especially if you are using a basement). For $1000, you can easily do the intial treatment and get a huge benefit with their room package 4.
This is the general wisdom. However, it really depends on your speakers. If they have a frequency response that is consistent even off-axis, the reflected sound will be of similar character as the direct sound and may not need to be absorbed. In fact, it will have the effect of making your system sound more spacious. It is bad off-axis sound that you want to absorb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDMC2 View Post
You may also want to consider using REW and the UMIK-1 and take your own measurements and tune. It will cost you $100 and take a few hours, but if you do it yourself, you know it will be done right. I can't tell you the number of times I have hired "professionals" after careful research to find out they are not as great as everyone thinks.
Definitely agree with this. I got a Cross Spectrum labs calibrated UMIK-1 3 years ago and, learning to use it with REW, it was one of the best purchases I've made for my system. And it doesn't even make sound.
Nemesis.ie likes this.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
Soulburner is offline  
post #34833 of 40443 Old 08-14-2018, 01:48 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
This is the general wisdom. However, it really depends on your speakers. If they have a frequency response that is consistent even off-axis, the reflected sound will be of similar character as the direct sound and may not need to be absorbed. In fact, it will have the effect of making your system sound more spacious. It is bad off-axis sound that you want to absorb.
I would agree if his setup allowed him to have the speakers well out from the front and sidewalls, but as it sits now, his speakers need to be spaced further apart given his listening distance (which he has said cannot be moved). To get them wide enough will require putting them about 1 foot from the wall, which will result in strong early reflections, smearing and a tilted up response at the listening position. Using side wall treatments at the early reflection points will mitigate this, but as you point out, he will not have the same potentially spacious sound as if the speakers were several feet out and his position closer. It should however significantly widen his soundstage and improve imaging, which IMO is a worthwhile trade off.

I could be completely wrong however, it wouldn't be the first time, so don't take my opinion as the end all, be all conclusion.
Alan P and Nemesis.ie like this.
CDMC2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34834 of 40443 Old 08-14-2018, 04:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,887
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1627
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDMC2 View Post
I would agree if his setup allowed him to have the speakers well out from the front and sidewalls, but as it sits now, his speakers need to be spaced further apart given his listening distance (which he has said cannot be moved). To get them wide enough will require putting them about 1 foot from the wall, which will result in strong early reflections, smearing and a tilted up response at the listening position. Using side wall treatments at the early reflection points will mitigate this, but as you point out, he will not have the same potentially spacious sound as if the speakers were several feet out and his position closer. It should however significantly widen his soundstage and improve imaging, which IMO is a worthwhile trade off.

I could be completely wrong however, it wouldn't be the first time, so don't take my opinion as the end all, be all conclusion.
You're probably right, but I'd be prepared to use absorbers of at least 4 inches in thickness. And large bass traps in the corners behind, but that goes for many rooms.
Nemesis.ie likes this.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)

Last edited by Soulburner; 08-14-2018 at 06:18 PM.
Soulburner is offline  
post #34835 of 40443 Old 08-14-2018, 05:05 PM
Member
 
axlemay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: IL
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by axlemay View Post
This is the result after placing lvx12 where the A3-300 and it flatten the 30-40hz but has a small dip in 20-30hz. And subtracting 2ft at a time. red=original dist, blue=-2ft, pink=-4ft helps in 80hz dip. Right now I recalibrate in mcacc.

I think this is already better than what you had before at the left corner. There is no broad dip below 80hz anymore. So the right corner is a better choice for subwoofer. The remaining dip at 80hz is a result of room mode in the height dimension. But even with that room mode masking the phase alignment adjustment, you can still tell which subwoofer distance gives you the least amount of dip. You can also adjust the sub level 3-4db hotter (but check LED light for clipping.). What we try to do is to make the 70hz output higher so that loudness wise it can compensate the dip at 80hz. You can even start playing movies without mcacc. I am not sure how much mcacc can improve as this plot is already very flat.
Thanks to everyone giving suggestion of what to do on the setup. Right now its really better and had punch compare as before relocating the sub but notice the lows is less than it was before. Maybe the plot explains it in 20-30 hz. range. Is adding another lvx12 is the way to have more flatter response or a minidsp will help. And I think output is enough for me. Wifey already complain on -10mv.
axlemay is online now  
post #34836 of 40443 Old 08-14-2018, 07:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
You're probably right, but I'd be prepared to use absorbers of at least 4 inches in thickness. And large bass traps in the corners behind, but that goes for many rooms.
Isn’t bigger always better? It is my understanding that absortion is greater at high frequencies, that the decrease in room decay is more broadband. I believe this is why the combination of room treatment for decay and dsp for frequency response can be so powerful.

Keep in mind, I am an audio guy and this forum is more home theater oriented, so the goals may be slightly different. While I believe that there is an art to designing and setting up audio equipment, I believe most of it is science and find the information here much better than most places. It is mostly focused on why and how things sound and work than calling it a black art. I have learned a great deal more about the science of sound here than most sites.
gwsat, Soulburner and Nemesis.ie like this.

Last edited by CDMC2; 08-14-2018 at 07:35 PM.
CDMC2 is offline  
post #34837 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 12:00 PM
Senior Member
 
cissado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: clifton NJ USA
Posts: 333
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Note that acoustic treatments are generally ineffective in the subwoofer region so there are really two issues: finding the best spot for the sub, and finding the most appropriate places for room treatment for the mains. Placing room treatments can be tricky as it depends on your room and everything in it, the dispersion characteristics of your speakers, your preference for sound, your budget, etc. That said as @CDMC2 said there are lots of online resources and companies that sell product such as GIK and RealTraps offer help. I'd contact a couple or three of them, see what they say, then start slowly as you add treatment to the room.

FWIWFM - Don

First, thank you to everyone for the replies. I just recalibrated my Anthem ARC receiver and I still can't believe that 2 more powerful subwoofers will not be more overpowering than the one 15 I have now. I've changed my mind about smaller (15inch) sealed to 18 inch, to ported, back to 15 inch sealed... many times. Going a little crazy. 95% Going with the 15 sealed. Still pondering. A lot of stuff has to go together along with the subs.

I agree with DonH50. Acoustic treatments are hardest for the sub levels. Especially under 50 or so. My room has 20Hz peaks and 40s and 60? 70s?... etc... depending on what your looking at. I was planning on placing panels at the early reflections on either side. The bass "traps" portion was up in the air. I can easily build the corner trap 30" wide triangle or whatever and place one in each corner, but I don't think they will go low enough for my needs. I was also thinking of building a very large, 7' X 8' rectangle and place it directly behind that curtain there. It can be 8 or 10" thick. All built out of 703 or whatever is best. Then the corner traps or just thick panels on the sides. My ultimate goal would be, and this is why I want a pro to come in and advise and measure for me, building a super-low bass absorber(s) and place them in the corners behind the L&R speakers. Diaphragmatic from Acoustic Fields website. I would hate to have to buy them, as they are pricey, so if I could build them with the plans they have, it would be a better option. Those do go down to very low levels.

I do need to start with the subs first. Position them, then start with the acoustic treatments, then do the ARC or sub correction/ARC correction.

I didn't realize Accucal was on this website. I may just PM him as it looks like they come around my area in November. I do trust they will do a good job. I certainly have hired "professionsls" who were far from professional, but in this case, it seems fine. I would love to get a local guy, but then it's hit or miss, unless they come recommended or something. At some point I have to get/learn REW but not right now. I envy everyone who does it. Sincerely.

Next couple of weeks are busy, but I will be calling Rythmik at some point to ask questions and probably order something. I do still have the question regarding the SE15HP2 sub vs the F18 sub. Which is the better option, in case I can fit them both in my space? Is there that much of a difference? Again, my first priority is the most accurate, clean, coherent sound for music. I will sacrifice the deepest lows in exchange for that extra 5% of the aforementioned, if that's the case. Yes, it's a 5.1 system, but I don't want the bass to overpower everything else. I want the subs to disappear, really.

Thanks again!
cissado is offline  
post #34838 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 12:19 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 12,331
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3271 Post(s)
Liked: 3356
Multiple subs properly placed can compensate for room modes much better (and with far fewer consequences for the rest of the spectrum) than adding absorbers everywhere. I was able to tame some 30 Hz nulls pretty well with lots of panels but not completely eliminate them. And by lots I mean 27 panels in a mixture of 4" and 6" thick wall and ceiling panels and a couple 12" thick corner traps. I do not recommend that; my situation is fairly unique, and the AVR I had at the time did not EQ the sub so I had to handle that another way.

Depending upon your room dimensions, any openings, speaker models, preference, and MLP, a total guess would be corner traps and treating first reflections may be desirable but I would not do more than that without setting up and measuring. You may find multiple subs obviate the need for more extensive bass trapping.

Using Corning OC-703 works well and you can cover them with suitable fabric then hang them with gorilla hooks or whatever. OC-703 is available at home building stores or online. I have noticed prices vary widely so shop around. There are DIY instructions on the Realtraps site (and I am sure other places) and some companies sell kits including OC-703 with frames, fabrics, and hanging hooks.

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #34839 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 12:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
B T C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lansing, MI via Kentucky, Georgia & Tennessee
Posts: 926
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 669 Post(s)
Liked: 308
Have you considered a few of the 18" sealed?
B T C is offline  
post #34840 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 01:20 PM
Member
 
budeliao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Anyone have any experience with L12 yet. Friend putting together media room. Likely cap of about $1k for subs. Recommend two L12s or one LVX12? Pretty sure a dual LVX12 would be a no go. Thoughts?

Audio: Yamaha CX-A5100 | Adcom GFA-555 + Outlaw Audio 5000 + Onkyo M-5010
Mains: Klipsch RP-160M + FM8 | Center: Klipsch RP-450c
Surrounds: Klipsch RP-160M | Klipsch R-15M | Polk Audio RC65i
Subs: Rythmik F15HP x4
Video: Vizio P702ui-B3 | Epson 5040ub | Oppo 203
budeliao is offline  
post #34841 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 04:05 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Hey guys! I'm in the market for a new sub and have been pulling my hair out reading about specs, dimensions, and finishes trying to find one for me. I recently sold my Hsu VTF3 MK5; nothing really wrong with it, sounded good in the room, but it was rather large and kind of an eye sore for my space. I'm looking for something smaller to use with my KEF LS50 (LCR) in my living room. I been drawn to the E15HP2 SE (1000w amp, piano black finish, small dimensions). I know I'll loose some low end going sealed vs ported, but "how much"? I watch TV and movies, but listen to music quiet frequently with this system as well, probably 60% HT/40% music. I appreciate feedback and suggestions. Budget of $1500 or so.
Kirkobangz is offline  
post #34842 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 04:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
enricoclaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,764
Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3827 Post(s)
Liked: 4702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkobangz View Post
Hey guys! I'm in the market for a new sub and have been pulling my hair out reading about specs, dimensions, and finishes trying to find one for me. I recently sold my Hsu VTF3 MK5; nothing really wrong with it, sounded good in the room, but it was rather large and kind of an eye sore for my space. I'm looking for something smaller to use with my KEF LS50 (LCR) in my living room. I been drawn to the E15HP2 SE (1000w amp, piano black finish, small dimensions). I know I'll loose some low end going sealed vs ported, but "how much"? I watch TV and movies, but listen to music quiet frequently with this system as well, probably 60% HT/40% music. I appreciate feedback and suggestions. Budget of $1500 or so.
If your room is less than 2500 cu ft, you won't loose any low end, in fact you may hit single digits with an E15HP2 in a room that size.
BluesDaddy56 likes this.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
enricoclaudio is offline  
post #34843 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 05:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,887
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkobangz View Post
Hey guys! I'm in the market for a new sub and have been pulling my hair out reading about specs, dimensions, and finishes trying to find one for me. I recently sold my Hsu VTF3 MK5; nothing really wrong with it, sounded good in the room, but it was rather large and kind of an eye sore for my space. I'm looking for something smaller to use with my KEF LS50 (LCR) in my living room. I been drawn to the E15HP2 SE (1000w amp, piano black finish, small dimensions). I know I'll loose some low end going sealed vs ported, but "how much"? I watch TV and movies, but listen to music quiet frequently with this system as well, probably 60% HT/40% music. I appreciate feedback and suggestions. Budget of $1500 or so.
It really depends on your room and your EQ. If your room is small, you may not lose much. And if you have EQ, you can create a bump at 20Hz if you wish and if headroom allows. You can actually do that with just placement and phase if you're determined, but there are usually tradeoffs.

But to me, a sub isn't worth much if my frequency response ends up all over the place, with big peaks and dips that mean some frequencies are over-emphasized and others are nearly absent. So the question is, have you ever measured with a mic the bass at your seat? Can you achieve bass that relatively free of major problems with one sub? If so, by all means, go with one bigger one. The E15HP would be a great choice. You may be among the lucky few, though So, I invested in 2 subs and took the time to place them so I have a flat-ish response. Each fills in where the other is weak. At the time (summer 2015) the options were L12, LV12R, or F12. I opted for the F12s due to their extra controls and finish options. The extra controls have come in handy, but the same could be done with a MiniDSP unit.

There are more options now as the Rythmik lineup has expanded. With your budget, I'm tempted to recommend 2xLVX12. However you've indicated the size of ported subs is an issue, so maybe 2xL12 or 2xF12-300 would fit better. Keep in mind there is a discount when buying 2. You would place the 2nd one somewhere else in the room, ideally on the opposite wall so they can cover the whole room well. You lose the bass mode smoothing benefit if they are too close together. What does everyone else think?

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)

Last edited by Soulburner; 08-15-2018 at 06:01 PM.
Soulburner is offline  
post #34844 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 06:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
laulau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 50th state
Posts: 523
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 169
^^^


It would be helpful to know the room dimensions and whether it is a sealed room.


Also, is the concern only for the MLP or do other listening positions need to be considered?

HT:: Salk SongTwr-Raal / SongCtr-Raal / SongSurr ; Rythmik F12 (x2) (my latest Dialing-in Guide); Denon 4520; ATI AT522NC; Oppo BDP93; Panny 65VT50; BJCables; CCast; Roku Ultra; Furman; Omnimic
CANS:: RPi>Soekris DAC1541 > LCD2C :: RPi>AGD DAC19 >Cavalli LC > MrSpeakers AFC & HE400i & HD569 :: RPi3 > Bifrost 4490 > Valhalla >HD600 & HD6XX :: RPi > Mimby >Schiit Vali 2 >Meze 99 Classics & Oppo PM3
laulau is offline  
post #34845 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 07:42 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkobangz View Post
Hey guys! I'm in the market for a new sub and have been pulling my hair out reading about specs, dimensions, and finishes trying to find one for me. I recently sold my Hsu VTF3 MK5; nothing really wrong with it, sounded good in the room, but it was rather large and kind of an eye sore for my space. I'm looking for something smaller to use with my KEF LS50 (LCR) in my living room. I been drawn to the E15HP2 SE (1000w amp, piano black finish, small dimensions). I know I'll loose some low end going sealed vs ported, but "how much"? I watch TV and movies, but listen to music quiet frequently with this system as well, probably 60% HT/40% music. I appreciate feedback and suggestions. Budget of $1500 or so.
It really depends on your room and your EQ. If your room is small, you may not lose much. And if you have EQ, you can create a bump at 20Hz if you wish and if headroom allows. You can actually do that with just placement and phase if you're determined, but there are usually tradeoffs.

But to me, a sub isn't worth much if my frequency response ends up all over the place, with big peaks and dips that mean some frequencies are over-emphasized and others are nearly absent. So the question is, have you ever measured with a mic the bass at your seat? Can you achieve bass that relatively free of major problems with one sub? If so, by all means, go with one bigger one. The E15HP would be a great choice. You may be among the lucky few, though [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG] So, I invested in 2 subs and took the time to place them so I have a flat-ish response. Each fills in where the other is weak. At the time (summer 2015) the options were L12, LV12R, or F12. I opted for the F12s due to their extra controls and finish options. The extra controls have come in handy, but the same could be done with a MiniDSP unit.

There are more options now as the Rythmik lineup has expanded. With your budget, I'm tempted to recommend 2xLVX12. However you've indicated the size of ported subs is an issue, so maybe 2xL12 or 2xF12-300 would fit better. Keep in mind there is a discount when buying 2. You would place the 2nd one somewhere else in the room, ideally on the opposite wall so they can cover the whole room well. You lose the bass mode smoothing benefit if they are too close together. What does everyone else think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by laulau View Post
^^^


It would be helpful to know the room dimensions and whether it is a sealed room.


Also, is the concern only for the MLP or do other listening positions need to be considered?
The room is about 12x18 (MLP is 9ft from TV) with vaulted ceilings... So rather large I would say. I get that the idea is to pressurize the room, but I'm in an upstairs apartment, so I can get too crazy with SPL. The reason I am looking for something sealed is mostly due to the size. I want something shorter than 24" so it sits below my speaker stands. I haven't used a mic to measure, but to the left of the TV between the L/R speakers sounds rather flat to me. I could foranother to the right of the TV stand, but I don't think I'd have any benefits with both subs in the front. I have a Denon receiver with XT32 for the sub EQ.

The options I've looked into are the F/E15HP, PSA S1510, and the SVS SB16. Also slightly looked in the 18" version of the PSA and Rythmik. If I'm being honest, the SB16 has won me over most of all, because the damn thing is so good looking, but I know there are better options for the price.
Kirkobangz is offline  
post #34846 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 09:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkobangz View Post
The room is about 12x18 (MLP is 9ft from TV) with vaulted ceilings... So rather large I would say. I get that the idea is to pressurize the room, but I'm in an upstairs apartment, so I can get too crazy with SPL. The reason I am looking for something sealed is mostly due to the size. I want something shorter than 24" so it sits below my speaker stands. I haven't used a mic to measure, but to the left of the TV between the L/R speakers sounds rather flat to me. I could foranother to the right of the TV stand, but I don't think I'd have any benefits with both subs in the front. I have a Denon receiver with XT32 for the sub EQ.
Perfect - XT32 + Sub EQ does a great job with dual subs. How many feet apart would they be, in that hypothetical configuration? I bet there'd be a benefit, though I know you're attracted to the E/F15HP because of the option of the piano gloss finish. I guess you're going to need to decide what your priorities are - the best bass for $1500, or compromise on bass quality for single-sub aesthetics. My subs are not visible when I'm sitting in my seat, so to me it's no big deal, but I know everyone's space is different. Even if they were visible, I think the standard black matte finish looks good and the aluminum drivers are pretty sweet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkobangz View Post
The options I've looked into are the F/E15HP, PSA S1510, and the SVS SB16. Also slightly looked in the 18" version of the PSA and Rythmik. If I'm being honest, the SB16 has won me over most of all, because the damn thing is so good looking, but I know there are better options for the price.
Right - SVS makes really good subs. Of course here you're talking to people who are sold on the servo technology and plate amp controls of Rythmik giving you a lot more for your dollar, so IMO that's the way I'd go, but I'm biased [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
The TV stand is 6 feet long, so center of driver to center of driver would be about 7 feet. If running dual, what would you suggest? Main thing is the cabinet has to be shorter than 24". And yes, I like the piano gloss... It would match the LS50 speakers perfect haha.
Kirkobangz is offline  
post #34847 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 09:57 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,518
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5472 Post(s)
Liked: 4972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkobangz View Post
The options I've looked into are the F/E15HP, PSA S1510, and the SVS SB16. Also slightly looked in the 18" version of the PSA and Rythmik. If I'm being honest, the SB16 has won me over most of all, because the damn thing is so good looking, but I know there are better options for the price.
The PSA and SVS are geared more towards movies than music IME. @muscles and I recently listened to dual SVS SB16s vs JL F113s vs Rythmik G25s. Both my ears and measurements (low distortion) favored the JLs with music. The Rythmik G25s outperformed them both!

I suspect the E15HP2s will also be preferred over the SVS and JL for music. Many will prefer a sub with a touch of harmonic distortion for movies. If not listened to in a head-to-head, one would have difficulty choosing one over another for movies or music.

The only way to know for sure what you prefer would be to order more than one of your choices. My opinion is that you will be satisfied no matter which you pick.
muscles and djreef like this.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #34848 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 10:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,887
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The PSA and SVS are geared more towards movies than music IME. @muscles and I recently listened to dual SVS SB16s vs JL F113s vs Rythmik G25s. Both my ears and measurements (low distortion) favored the JLs with music. The Rythmik G25s outperformed them both!
That's quite a feat for such a small operation such as Rythmik. Some day I'll have a bigger room and more monstrous subs like that. Until then my little 12s will sing in this room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I suspect the E15HP2s will also be preferred over the SVS and JL for music. Many will prefer a sub with a touch of harmonic distortion for movies. If not listened to in a head-to-head, one would have difficulty choosing one over another for movies or music.
This is such an interesting topic to me because of questions surrounding "what is it supposed to sound like? We spend a lot of time getting our main speakers sounding like they are supposed to, or more true to life. Naturally I want my subs to come as close as they can, too.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
Soulburner is offline  
post #34849 of 40443 Old 08-15-2018, 11:04 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Inland Empire, CA
Posts: 13,518
Mentioned: 240 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5472 Post(s)
Liked: 4972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
This is such an interesting topic to me because of questions surrounding "what is it supposed to sound like? We spend a lot of time getting our main speakers sounding like they are supposed to, or more true to life. Naturally I want my subs to come as close as they can, too.
There was one track that the other subs were tripped up by at high volume (-10dB MV). It was a great demo comparison piece for what the Direct Servo is able to do.

Disco Science by Mirwais

I believe that with Rythmik subs one's musical listening and enjoyment will multiply.
Marc Alexander is offline  
post #34850 of 40443 Old 08-16-2018, 07:31 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 55
So now the question is.... dual F12SE or a single E15HP2 SE or possibly a single F18-SE, though an 18" might be overkill for an upstairs apartment lol(the damn gloss piano black!!). It would be about a $350 premium for the dual F12SE. Can someone list out the pro's & con's? I know dual helps even out response, but would it be at the cost of loosing low end? Output? Etc...??

Last edited by Kirkobangz; 08-16-2018 at 07:41 AM.
Kirkobangz is offline  
post #34851 of 40443 Old 08-16-2018, 07:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,887
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkobangz View Post
So now the question is.... dual F12SE or a single E15HP2 SE (the damn gloss piano black!!). It would be about a $350 premium for the dual F12SE. Can someone list out the pro's & con's? I know dual helps even out response, but would it be at the cost of loosing low end? Output? Etc...??
Output will be close as the 2nd sub will get you +3dB average. But of course the main advantage is the ability to bring up your dips. I'm not sure if it's still in effect, but when I got mine, there was something like 10% off when buying 2.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
Soulburner is offline  
post #34852 of 40443 Old 08-16-2018, 08:52 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
If your room is less than 2500 cu ft, you won't loose any low end, in fact you may hit single digits with an E15HP2 in a room that size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
There was one track that the other subs were tripped up by at high volume (-10dB MV). It was a great demo comparison piece for what the Direct Servo is able to do.

Disco Science by Mirwais

I believe that with Rythmik subs one's musical listening and enjoyment will multiply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Output will be close as the 2nd sub will get you +3dB average. But of course the main advantage is the ability to bring up your dips. I'm not sure if it's still in effect, but when I got mine, there was something like 10% off when buying 2.
1 E15HP2 SE, 1 F18 SE, or dual F12 SE? All around the same price. I could go "cheaper", but the damn piano black has me hooked. I'm looking for whatever will blend well with my KEF LS50 and not be "overkill" in an upstairs apartment. I have very understanding neighbors, but don't want to push the envelope.
Kirkobangz is offline  
post #34853 of 40443 Old 08-16-2018, 08:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 4,887
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 1627
Either way you go, I think you'll want to use the rumble filter to keep the peace 🙂

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Emotiva E2 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
Soulburner is offline  
post #34854 of 40443 Old 08-16-2018, 09:00 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 12,331
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3271 Post(s)
Liked: 3356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkobangz View Post
1 E15HP2 SE, 1 F18 SE, or dual F12 SE? All around the same price. I could go "cheaper", but the damn piano black has me hooked. I'm looking for whatever will blend well with my KEF LS50 and not be "overkill" in an upstairs apartment. I have very understanding neighbors, but don't want to push the envelope.
For a sealed 12' x 18' room I would get dual F12's. My room is similar in size and a pair of F12's would break things. With those dimensions room modes will be an issue and by having a second sub properly placed you can mitigate them. Can't do that with a single sub. Two subs will likely run at a lower net volume since you won't be overpowering other parts of the room to compensate for a null at the MLP.

FWIWFM - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #34855 of 40443 Old 08-16-2018, 09:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
enricoclaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,764
Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3827 Post(s)
Liked: 4702
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
For a sealed 12' x 18' room I would get dual F12's. My room is similar in size and a pair of F12's would break things. With those dimensions room modes will be an issue and by having a second sub properly placed you can mitigate them. Can't do that with a single sub. Two subs will likely run at a lower net volume since you won't be overpowering other parts of the room to compensate for a null at the MLP.

FWIWFM - Don
+1. Totally agree with Don. In a sealed 12' x 18' room, a pair of F12SEs will do great. Mostly if you live in a condo like myself. Like I said before, I get flat response down to 10Hz in my 2700 cu ft open living room with just a pair of F12SEs.
Matt2026 and BluesDaddy56 like this.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
enricoclaudio is offline  
post #34856 of 40443 Old 08-16-2018, 10:24 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
+1. Totally agree with Don. In a sealed 12' x 18' room, a pair of F12SEs will do great. Mostly if you live in a condo like myself. Like I said before, I get flat response down to 10Hz in my 2700 cu ft open living room with just a pair of F12SEs.
What is the difference of: F12SE Signature Edition black cone with A370PEQ3 amp (with both LFE and Line inputs) F12SE Signature Edition black cone with A370PEQ amp with HPF outputs (back order) for using them strictly with a receiver? And if I'm reading correct, the F12SE come with the spiked feet already? Meaning I don't have to order the spikes separately? They will be sitting on carpet.
Kirkobangz is offline  
post #34857 of 40443 Old 08-16-2018, 10:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
enricoclaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,764
Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3827 Post(s)
Liked: 4702
For use with a receiver, go with F12SE with A370PEQ3 amp. The F12SE comes with both, rubber feet and spike feet.
Kirkobangz likes this.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
enricoclaudio is offline  
post #34858 of 40443 Old 08-16-2018, 10:58 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
For use with a receiver, go with F12SE with A370PEQ3 amp. The F12SE comes with both, rubber feet and spike feet.
Sweet... Just ordered them
laulau, woster402 and BluesDaddy56 like this.
Kirkobangz is offline  
post #34859 of 40443 Old 08-16-2018, 11:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
enricoclaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,764
Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3827 Post(s)
Liked: 4702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkobangz View Post
Sweet... Just ordered them
Great!! They will go out today. In a few mins you should get an email with UPS tracking numbers.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
enricoclaudio is offline  
post #34860 of 40443 Old 08-16-2018, 12:39 PM
Member
 
audiocologne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
For use with a receiver, go with F12SE with A370PEQ3 amp...
I'm using a preamp and amp separates (for music only). With an F12 pair (not SE), does the above still apply? Thanks.
audiocologne is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
f12g subwoofer , integra dtc 9.8 , lv12r , Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F12 Direct Servo Subwoofer , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , servo sub

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off