Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 1202 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #36031 of 40839 Old 11-14-2018, 04:30 PM
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Checked and viltage3set to 110v , lfe in all basics in check.
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post #36032 of 40839 Old 11-14-2018, 09:49 PM
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sounds like a cable problem

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post #36033 of 40839 Old 11-14-2018, 09:53 PM
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A cable problem or a defective Audyssey mic.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
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post #36034 of 40839 Old 11-15-2018, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
A cable problem or a defective Audyssey mic.
I will check the cable... I did run an SPL meter on the phone and came in around the same.

Thanks for the suggestions!
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post #36035 of 40839 Old 11-15-2018, 02:11 PM
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Ran a new shorter cable I had from my last setup.. No success.... With movies it definitely rattles the windows, but you can tell this thing is trying very hard.... all levels have to be cranked and its sounding muddy.

I will probably return it and go for PB2k or L22.
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post #36036 of 40839 Old 11-15-2018, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbc112 View Post
Hi All,

I recently purchased the Rhythmic L12 for a small HT setup in my basement mancave. I am running a Dennon AVR3400H and refurbished Adcom 2 channel amp, with 3 Warfedale Diamond 240 series LCR and 2 Polk in wall speakers for rear surrounds. Simple 5.1 setup.

I received the L12 last night but it had the incorrect power cable (European). I ended up using my Desktop PC cable until the replacement cord comes. I did find it odd the internal power connection did not have a ground and only 2 prongs.

Room:
My room dimensions are 15 L x 12W x 9 H (1620 sq) , closed off with 2 French doors. I have a nice big fluffy wrap around couch and thick carpet/padding. The room was very tightly constructed utilizing rock wool for insulation.



Issue:
Last night my initial configuration running Audsey had some surprising results. Running a 35 ft. LFE cable through conduit /in wall, I set the L12 crossover and phase ( second knob?) to max , the volume was set at 50 % per (Audsey onscreen)

When running the Audsey setup the microphone could not even sense the subwoofer, I was given the option to turn the volume until 75 DB was obtained (via audsey onscreen measurement). I turned the volume up 100% and could only reach 53 DB with the Audsey test

I tried this with all 3 settings on back switches, 12db, 24 DB, HT Low, Medium, High. All variations, diff variations in knob turning besides volume. Not much difference.

I Found this odd that the L12 could not reach these levels out of the box.


Question:

So my question is more focused on the L12. Why could I not reach Audsey DB levels at 50% volume let alone full power? Is 75 DB considered hard to reach? Do I have some crazy room that likes to cancel bass?

I have to say after manual configuration I was very happy with the sub, regardless of the DB Audsey. I just keep wondering if I’m only tapping into ½ the potential. Any suggestions? Is it simply the concrete flooring?
Look back at these measurements of the L12:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57092664

Something is not right with your setup, because the L12 is much more capable that what you are experiencing. Maybe give Rythmik a call, so that they can help trouble shoot it.
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post #36037 of 40839 Old 11-15-2018, 03:37 PM
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My order of 2 x F25 arrived, thanks to Lynn at Rythmik for being very helpful with shipping to the UK and combining a couple of pairs of Magnepans (for ceiling speakers) onto the same pallet. Unfortunately I don't have anywhere to set them up at present as the physical shell of the new HT is still under construction.
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post #36038 of 40839 Old 11-15-2018, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbc112 View Post
Hi All,

I recently purchased the Rhythmic L12 for a small HT setup in my basement mancave. I am running a Dennon AVR3400H and refurbished Adcom 2 channel amp, with 3 Warfedale Diamond 240 series LCR and 2 Polk in wall speakers for rear surrounds. Simple 5.1 setup.

I received the L12 last night but it had the incorrect power cable (European). I ended up using my Desktop PC cable until the replacement cord comes. I did find it odd the internal power connection did not have a ground and only 2 prongs.

Room:
My room dimensions are 15 L x 12W x 9 H (1620 sq) , closed off with 2 French doors. I have a nice big fluffy wrap around couch and thick carpet/padding. The room was very tightly constructed utilizing rock wool for insulation.



Issue:
Last night my initial configuration running Audsey had some surprising results. Running a 35 ft. LFE cable through conduit /in wall, I set the L12 crossover and phase ( second knob?) to max , the volume was set at 50 % per (Audsey onscreen)

When running the Audsey setup the microphone could not even sense the subwoofer, I was given the option to turn the volume until 75 DB was obtained (via audsey onscreen measurement). I turned the volume up 100% and could only reach 53 DB with the Audsey test

I tried this with all 3 settings on back switches, 12db, 24 DB, HT Low, Medium, High. All variations, diff variations in knob turning besides volume. Not much difference.

I Found this odd that the L12 could not reach these levels out of the box.


Question:

So my question is more focused on the L12. Why could I not reach Audsey DB levels at 50% volume let alone full power? Is 75 DB considered hard to reach? Do I have some crazy room that likes to cancel bass?

I have to say after manual configuration I was very happy with the sub, regardless of the DB Audsey. I just keep wondering if I’m only tapping into ½ the potential. Any suggestions? Is it simply the concrete flooring?
You say you maxed out the 2nd knob (phase/delay)? That should be left at the min position (0 degrees/0ms).

Crossover knob should be at max and LPF slope at 12dB.

You could also try LFE input vs. Line In input to see if there is any improvement.

I'm pretty sure that the current issue is not that the sub is not powerful enough (if that was the problem Audyssey would still work normally)....

You might prefer more sub if you like cranking things very loud with the low music setting, but that is not the current problem that is keeping Audyssey from working and getting a normal amount of bass without maxing out the gain/volume knob.

I would definitely call Rythmik and do some troubleshooting on the phone. If the sub cable is not the issue and Audyssey mic is ok too, the check that phase is set to 0 degrees.

Also, do you have another sub you can test to see if it too has the same issue? And could that pc power cord be a factor?

Samsung 55" MU8000
Yamaha RX-A2070
KEF Q150 Bookshelf x 5
Rythmik L12 Sealed Subwoofer

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post #36039 of 40839 Old 11-15-2018, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schrodinger23 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbc112 View Post
Hi All,

I recently purchased the Rhythmic L12 for a small HT setup in my basement mancave. I am running a Dennon AVR3400H and refurbished Adcom 2 channel amp, with 3 Warfedale Diamond 240 series LCR and 2 Polk in wall speakers for rear surrounds. Simple 5.1 setup.

I received the L12 last night but it had the incorrect power cable (European). I ended up using my Desktop PC cable until the replacement cord comes. I did find it odd the internal power connection did not have a ground and only 2 prongs.

Room:
My room dimensions are 15 L x 12W x 9 H (1620 sq) , closed off with 2 French doors. I have a nice big fluffy wrap around couch and thick carpet/padding. The room was very tightly constructed utilizing rock wool for insulation.



Issue:
Last night my initial configuration running Audsey had some surprising results. Running a 35 ft. LFE cable through conduit /in wall, I set the L12 crossover and phase ( second knob?) to max , the volume was set at 50 % per (Audsey onscreen)

When running the Audsey setup the microphone could not even sense the subwoofer, I was given the option to turn the volume until 75 DB was obtained (via audsey onscreen measurement). I turned the volume up 100% and could only reach 53 DB with the Audsey test

I tried this with all 3 settings on back switches, 12db, 24 DB, HT Low, Medium, High. All variations, diff variations in knob turning besides volume. Not much difference.

I Found this odd that the L12 could not reach these levels out of the box.


Question:

So my question is more focused on the L12. Why could I not reach Audsey DB levels at 50% volume let alone full power? Is 75 DB considered hard to reach? Do I have some crazy room that likes to cancel bass?

I have to say after manual configuration I was very happy with the sub, regardless of the DB Audsey. I just keep wondering if I’m only tapping into ½ the potential. Any suggestions? Is it simply the concrete flooring?
Look back at these measurements of the L12:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57092664

Something is not right with your setup, because the L12 is much more capable that what you are experiencing. Maybe give Rythmik a call, so that they can help trouble shoot it.
Yeah, in small sealed rooms, the L12 doesn't struggle at all to produce deep and powerful bass. And I have have had wimpy HTiB subs before and YPAO still works fine and the sub still has decent bass at reasonable MV.

Either a setup issue (cables, mic, settings) or placement in an extreme null. If the poster has another sub, it would help identify the source of the problem.

Samsung 55" MU8000
Yamaha RX-A2070
KEF Q150 Bookshelf x 5
Rythmik L12 Sealed Subwoofer
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post #36040 of 40839 Old 11-15-2018, 06:55 PM
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The obvious answers are a bad amplifier, bad driver, and/or bad position in the room. The latter is easiest to test: move the mic a few feet forward or back, re-run Audyssey, listen there, and see if the problem is gone. Note it could also be a bad Audyssey mic.

I have seen several cases where measurement in a room mode, peak or null, caused problems with the room-correction program emphasizing or de-emphasizing the bass due to the mode (or SBIR -- Speaker Boundary Interference Response -- effect).

Edit: A pix of the back of the sub zoomed in to show all the control positions might be useful in troubleshooting.
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post #36041 of 40839 Old 11-16-2018, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbc112 View Post
Ran a new shorter cable I had from my last setup.. No success.... With movies it definitely rattles the windows, but you can tell this thing is trying very hard.... all levels have to be cranked and its sounding muddy.

I will probably return it and go for PB2k or L22.
Not sure if you have done this, but let us first try set it up without Audyssey. If the movies can rattle the window, it means the max SPL is still there. Also check the LED light on the back of subwoofer to see if it is flashing during those intense moments. Flashing means sub is playing at the max SPL level. A subwoofer amp consists of two parts: power amp and preamp (or front end responsible for all the knobs). If the max SPL level is reasonable then power amp portion is ok. The front end can have problem. But that possibility is same as AVR having sub out problem.

Right now it sounds muddy, most likely because the sub level is set by ears.

If the problem is still there after disabling Audyssey, then the next step is try without AVR. The preferred source can be either DVD player (with RCA output). If that is not available, we can also try MP3 player or even phone.

If the sub indeed has a problem, we are more than happy to send a replacement unit.
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Last edited by Rythmik; 11-16-2018 at 03:33 PM.
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post #36042 of 40839 Old 11-16-2018, 07:51 PM
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Just got my fv18 and was curious on the best way to connect and setup. I have a denon avrx8500. I was going to connect via rca lfe. Not sure if this is the best way. Also is 12v triggers necessary? It will be for 50/50 music and ht
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post #36043 of 40839 Old 11-16-2018, 08:54 PM
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RCA to the LFE is fine. You can use the automatic-on feature or the trigger circuit; up to you. It draws about as much as a nightlight if you choose to forego the trigger. Read through the setup guide in this post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post25314641

HTH - Don
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post #36044 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 12:08 AM
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Getting my first Rythmik sub FVX15

Greetings all. I'll be getting the FVX15 next month since it is on back order until the end of this month. I actually placed this order some weeks ago after deciding on rythmik instead of the other alternative in Cali. In the mean time I'm keeping myself busy reading this awesome thread. Couple of questions. From what I've read, seems like it is best to use line in inputs and set cross over to 80 hz. How does this work for a pair or speakers (used for surround highs) that only go down to 110 hz? Or am I limited by the highest value? Last question, is it safe to assume the sweet spot of my previous sub (pb1000) will work for its fvx15? I am currently in posts from July 2016, I still have a lot more to read if it hasn't been asked before. Hopefully I'll be current before the sub gets home. Thanks.
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post #36045 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
Just got my fv18 and was curious on the best way to connect and setup. I have a denon avrx8500. I was going to connect via rca lfe. Not sure if this is the best way. Also is 12v triggers necessary? It will be for 50/50 music and ht
Download the "Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers" guide in my signature and you will be good to go.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
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post #36046 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefrain View Post
Greetings all. I'll be getting the FVX15 next month since it is on back order until the end of this month. I actually placed this order some weeks ago after deciding on rythmik instead of the other alternative in Cali. In the mean time I'm keeping myself busy reading this awesome thread. Couple of questions. From what I've read, seems like it is best to use line in inputs and set cross over to 80 hz. How does this work for a pair or speakers (used for surround highs) that only go down to 110 hz? Or am I limited by the highest value? Last question, is it safe to assume the sweet spot of my previous sub (pb1000) will work for its fvx15? I am currently in posts from July 2016, I still have a lot more to read if it hasn't been asked before. Hopefully I'll be current before the sub gets home. Thanks.
The decision of LFE vs Line-In depends on your setup and usage. Some of us have preferred the steeper upper rolloff associated with Line-In as it cuts the frequencies that are way above the crossover that may be localizable and not sound great coming from a sub. Others use the LFE input and don't notice the difference.

The decision of where to set your crossover is based on your equipment and its results in your room, including the effects of the room on your sound. I would say if you have main speakers which have a -3dB point of 110Hz, then you don't want to cross lower than that. In fact, it's probably best that you stick with LFE to retain the higher bandwidth of the sub and cross higher, maybe 120Hz. Then, choose a subwoofer location that will minimize its ability to make itself obvious. This will often be at a midpoint along a wall, further from your seat. In my experience, middle of the front wall is best, if you can get it behind or under your TV.

Now since these are surrounds, I think you have three options:
  1. Set your crossover based on your "weakest link", and allow frequencies from 110-120Hz on down to be played by the sub
  2. Set your crossover based on your main speakers, allowing there to be a "hole" in the bass from your surrounds
  3. Set different crossovers per speaker - some AVRs allow this - this avoids a lot of redirected midbass going from the mains to the subs, but still allows redirected midbass from the surrounds, which there will be less of on those channels

The only way to know which option is best is to test and let your ears be the judge. I think that generally, it sounds "better" to have a hole in the bass from the surrounds than it is for the sub to start sounding offensively localizable, but every situation is different.

I hope this post is coherent. It is way past my bedtime so it's possible I went off the rails somewhere. Will read again in the morning.
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post #36047 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
RCA to the LFE is fine. You can use the automatic-on feature or the trigger circuit; up to you. It draws about as much as a nightlight if you choose to forego the trigger. Read through the setup guide in this post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post25314641



HTH - Don


Thanks Don. I appreciate the link. I plan going Dual with this model.


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post #36048 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
Just got my fv18 and was curious on the best way to connect and setup. I have a denon avrx8500. I was going to connect via rca lfe. Not sure if this is the best way. Also is 12v triggers necessary? It will be for 50/50 music and ht
Download the "Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers" guide in my signature and you will be good to go. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
??? Where is your signature
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post #36049 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 07:07 AM
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??? Where is your signature
This is the link in his signature. I think the signatures don't show up on phones...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post25314641

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post #36050 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 07:27 AM
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This is the link in his signature. I think the signatures don't show up on phones...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post25314641
I got it now. I had to log into pc. It doesn't work on phones
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post #36051 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by thefrain View Post
Greetings all. I'll be getting the FVX15 next month since it is on back order until the end of this month. I actually placed this order some weeks ago after deciding on rythmik instead of the other alternative in Cali. In the mean time I'm keeping myself busy reading this awesome thread.
Congratulations and welcome to the family!

Quote:
Couple of questions. From what I've read, seems like it is best to use line in inputs and set cross over to 80 hz.
Line in allows you to cascade crossovers for more rolloff (less highs in the sub, less lows in the mains) and access to more of the controls. However, most AVRs handle all that stuff automagically, so unless you know how to tweak things I'd just use LFE and let the AVR handle things at first. You can always change later, but most of us simply want our new toys to be playing away without hours of fiddling or weeks (plus) of learning. I wouild use LFE, set the crossover in the AVR to 80 Hz, and listen for a while.

Quote:
How does this work for a pair or speakers (used for surround highs) that only go down to 110 hz? Or am I limited by the highest value?
Depends on the AVR or processor. Some allow you to set independent crossovers so you could set the main L/R at 80 Hz and surrounds to 110 Hz or whatever. Others (Pioneer is the main one I recall) have a single global crossover. I'm with Soulburner on that; I'd use 80 Hz and integrate the sub with the L/R(/C) speakers and not worry about the surrounds (effects ) speakers too much. Again, can always tweak later.

Quote:
Last question, is it safe to assume the sweet spot of my previous sub (pb1000) will work for its fvx15? I am currently in posts from July 2016, I still have a lot more to read if it hasn't been asked before. Hopefully I'll be current before the sub gets home. Thanks.
Should be, though differences in output and frequency response may mean different room modes and SBIR effects are impacted. I would certainly start there if you've determined it is best.

Skim the thread, read the setup guides, and ask specific questions. Yes, we've heard them all before. Yes, we'll answer anyway.

HTH - Don
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post #36052 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 03:50 PM
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Got my fv18 going. At this point I'm not impressed. Seems like there is more high freq trying to come out of the sub then it should be. I expected alot lower and alot more air being moved. I am using the lfe line. Settings from download info for ported subs. 1 port sealed. Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated.
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post #36053 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
Got my fv18 going. At this point I'm not impressed. Seems like there is more high freq trying to come out of the sub then it should be. I expected alot lower and alot more air being moved. I am using the lfe line. Settings from download info for ported subs. 1 port sealed. Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated.
Try moving the RCA to Line-In instead of LFE and see what your ears think.

Also, if you haven't played a lot with placement yet, it may be too close to your seat.

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Polk LSiM 702 F/X (2) | Infinity RS152 (4) | Subs TBD (2)
PC: Micca OriGen G2 | Mackie MR624 (2)

Last edited by Soulburner; 11-17-2018 at 04:30 PM.
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post #36054 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 04:22 PM
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I tried line in a few times and many hours fiddling and just couldnt get great results...lfe is so much easier in my home...


still tweaking but got a decent rew response...this is before my sub boost in avr trim...pretty flat...
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Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #36055 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 04:44 PM
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Got my fv18 going. At this point I'm not impressed. Seems like there is more high freq trying to come out of the sub then it should be. I expected alot lower and alot more air being moved. I am using the lfe line. Settings from download info for ported subs. 1 port sealed. Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated.
Try moving the RCA to Line-In instead of LFE and see what your ears think.

Also, if you haven't played a lot with placement yet, it may be too close to your seat.
I will give it a try and play around with it.
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post #36056 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
I tried line in a few times and many hours fiddling and just couldnt get great results...lfe is so much easier in my home...


still tweaking but got a decent rew response...this is before my sub boost in avr trim...pretty flat...
Is this left/right or Audyssey off/on?

HT: Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings) | NAD T758 V3 | Buchardt S400 (2) | Polk LSiM 702 F/X (2) | Infinity RS152 (4) | Subs TBD (2)
PC: Micca OriGen G2 | Mackie MR624 (2)
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post #36057 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 04:56 PM
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Is this left/right or Audyssey off/on?

it is left/right and audyssey ON


my left front speaker is perfect with 40hz xover but then that screws up my right front...this is with 80hz xover.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #36058 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 05:50 PM
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Hello Future. Thanks Soulburner and DonH50 for the suggestions. I was leaning to line in due to possible issues with noise but i'll give it a try once sub's here to implement lfe which looks to be the simplest way to set the sub. If not I'll have to spend a bit more time after getting some surrounds that go below 80Hz. I have not tweaked my home theater settings four about 5 years so its slowly coming back to me. From what Soulburner said I should be able to set cross over to each speaker.

Back in 2016 there was a poster (forgot who) that replaced his satellite speakers with some polkT15. So I'm planning on doing that as well. Thanks again for the suggestions. Glad to see Don's still an active contributer 2 years later and still going strong with with his final words as acronyms ...yep this helps

Back to 2016... and FATC remember when ...rcohen compared ported vs seal. Found it very informative.
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post #36059 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Stro3579 View Post
Got my fv18 going. At this point I'm not impressed. Seems like there is more high freq trying to come out of the sub then it should be. I expected alot lower and alot more air being moved. I am using the lfe line. Settings from download info for ported subs. 1 port sealed. Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated.
I got my sub working really well for HT use. Now I have to figure out how to get good music out of it.
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post #36060 of 40839 Old 11-17-2018, 11:04 PM
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I got my sub working really well for HT use. Now I have to figure out how to get good music out of it.

I need different sub trim and also xover for my room/space...what sucks is for me on left speaker 40hz rules...but on right speaker 80hz rules and my avr cant do individual xovers.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP
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