Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 1206 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #36151 of 40616 Old 11-23-2018, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by logan456 View Post
I have f18 sub, can you damage the sub when playing it loud with the rumble filter off? Also what is the best freq and damping setting for watching movies? right now I have it set to 12 mid.

Its more dependent on a combination of frequency and SPL. The rumble filter should be on on scenes like the EoT intro when playing at high levels. It’s also depends on how much sub boost you have which determines headroom. The more headroom you have the less likely you would damage the sub.


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post #36152 of 40616 Old 11-23-2018, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by H Stevens View Post
Thanks both of you for the input. She is particular about the looks in this room as they have just put in new floors, painted every surface and all new furniture. They came across the F12 because they were searching for a white subwoofer to blend into the woodwork which popped up on the Rythmik site and they are on the Outlaw email list because they purchased a 2150 receiver from them several years ago so they received the holiday sales flyer bringing attention to the X12.

The $1000 for the F12 didn't seem to bother them but I do know that she does not want the subwoofer they choose to be higher than the armrest of their chair should they use it as an end table. If I remember correctly, the top of the armrest is around 22 or 23 inches and the X12 is 21" high which will work.

What they specifically asked me was about the movie experience between the two and listening at volume levels in the -25 to -30 range and whether or one of those two would bring a better experience at those levels than the other. She is an interior designer so I am quite sure she will do something to the unit they choose, either paint it or wrap in in fabric which is her "MO" so to say.
Right, I'm just saying the placement options may have more influence on the experience than any differences between the subs.

If testing the locations beforehand can't be done, I'd start with the Outlaw, especially if you're not using the system for music. I can only guess but you will probably have a few more DB at 20hz available with it than with the F12.
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post #36153 of 40616 Old 11-23-2018, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by H Stevens View Post
Thanks both of you for the input. She is particular about the looks in this room as they have just put in new floors, painted every surface and all new furniture. They came across the F12 because they were searching for a white subwoofer to blend into the woodwork which popped up on the Rythmik site and they are on the Outlaw email list because they purchased a 2150 receiver from them several years ago so they received the holiday sales flyer bringing attention to the X12.

The $1000 for the F12 didn't seem to bother them but I do know that she does not want the subwoofer they choose to be higher than the armrest of their chair should they use it as an end table. If I remember correctly, the top of the armrest is around 22 or 23 inches and the X12 is 21" high which will work.

What they specifically asked me was about the movie experience between the two and listening at volume levels in the -25 to -30 range and whether or one of those two would bring a better experience at those levels than the other. She is an interior designer so I am quite sure she will do something to the unit they choose, either paint it or wrap in in fabric which is her "MO" so to say.
If she can paint it, that changes everything. Forget the white F12 and get a LVX12 (20.5" H) and paint it white. Best of both worlds!

It should sound more articulate, have a bit more output, and extend a little lower than the Outlaw (best guess without measurements of the Outlaw).

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post #36154 of 40616 Old 11-24-2018, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by H Stevens View Post
Thanks both of you for the input. She is particular about the looks in this room as they have just put in new floors, painted every surface and all new furniture. They came across the F12 because they were searching for a white subwoofer to blend into the woodwork which popped up on the Rythmik site and they are on the Outlaw email list because they purchased a 2150 receiver from them several years ago so they received the holiday sales flyer bringing attention to the X12.

The $1000 for the F12 didn't seem to bother them but I do know that she does not want the subwoofer they choose to be higher than the armrest of their chair should they use it as an end table. If I remember correctly, the top of the armrest is around 22 or 23 inches and the X12 is 21" high which will work.

What they specifically asked me was about the movie experience between the two and listening at volume levels in the -25 to -30 range and whether or one of those two would bring a better experience at those levels than the other. She is an interior designer so I am quite sure she will do something to the unit they choose, either paint it or wrap in in fabric which is her "MO" so to say.
Also, consider the L12 in piano white high gloss finish. It is about $100 more than a regular L12. That keeps the price much closer to the Outlaw. There is pic of it on the Rythmik Facebook page.

And given their room size and listening levels, which are more or less identical to mine, they will get plenty of extension with room gain (I get an in room -3dB point between 5-6Hz in my ~1200 cu ft sealed room).

I have the regular black oak L12. It's equally good for movies and music at those listening levels. And if you turn on the rumble filter you can really crank it (which still is flat to 20Hz).
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post #36155 of 40616 Old 11-24-2018, 07:42 AM
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post #36156 of 40616 Old 11-24-2018, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by logan456 View Post
I have f18 sub, can you damage the sub when playing it loud with the rumble filter off? Also what is the best freq and damping setting for watching movies? right now I have it set to 12 mid.
Depending on your room size and resulting amount of room gain, listening levels, content, how much headroom the sub has, etc.

If you watch movies with strong bass under 20Hz and/or use BEQ and/or use a lot boost (running sub very hot or aggressive house curve), you would want it on unless the MV is very conservative.

Another way to know if you are pushing it too hard is if the limiter is going off frequently or you hear the driver bottom out. The power led will either blink or turn red when you activate the limiter. The driver bottoming out will make a metallic sound.

If in doubt either leave the rumble filter on (always leave limiter ON) or use caution with the MV and any sub boosts.

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post #36157 of 40616 Old 11-24-2018, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by H Stevens View Post
Thanks both of you for the input. She is particular about the looks in this room as they have just put in new floors, painted every surface and all new furniture. They came across the F12 because they were searching for a white subwoofer to blend into the woodwork which popped up on the Rythmik site and they are on the Outlaw email list because they purchased a 2150 receiver from them several years ago so they received the holiday sales flyer bringing attention to the X12.

The $1000 for the F12 didn't seem to bother them but I do know that she does not want the subwoofer they choose to be higher than the armrest of their chair should they use it as an end table. If I remember correctly, the top of the armrest is around 22 or 23 inches and the X12 is 21" high which will work.

What they specifically asked me was about the movie experience between the two and listening at volume levels in the -25 to -30 range and whether or one of those two would bring a better experience at those levels than the other. She is an interior designer so I am quite sure she will do something to the unit they choose, either paint it or wrap in in fabric which is her "MO" so to say.

Hi,

If they are strictly interested in the movie experience, at moderate volume levels, then the superior clarity of the sealed Rythmik will probably be less important to them. What may, however, be important is the additional low-bass tactile response of the ported Outlaw subwoofer. It will certainly produce more <30Hz SPL than the F12, and will produce quite a bit more low-bass TR in the process.

I agree that positioning is critical, so it would be nice if they could try whichever subwoofer they choose at both locations. If painting the subwoofer white is an option, it might be possible to do that. If a ported Rythmik subwoofer could be made to work within the size constraints, that might also be a good option. Even at -25 MV (which is probably the max comfortable SPL due to all of the hard surfaces in the room) they may want to boost the sub to hear/feel low-frequencies in movies. Where only a single subwoofer is contemplated, I would recommend ported in this case.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #36158 of 40616 Old 11-24-2018, 08:49 AM
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The Psa V1510DF is 22" high down firing sub and is a much more capable sub than the X12. The only pros for the x12 is the finish imo.That doesnt really matter if they will vynal wrap the sub in white
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post #36159 of 40616 Old 11-24-2018, 09:28 AM
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Thank you everyone, I just sent them the link to this forum and all of your input so that they can digest it all.
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post #36160 of 40616 Old 11-24-2018, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Also, consider the L12 in piano white high gloss finish. It is about $100 more than a regular L12. That keeps the price much closer to the Outlaw. There is pic of it on the Rythmik Facebook page.

And given their room size and listening levels, which are more or less identical to mine, they will get plenty of extension with room gain (I get an in room -3dB point between 5-6Hz in my ~1200 cu ft sealed room).

I have the regular black oak L12. It's equally good for movies and music at those listening levels. And if you turn on the rumble filter you can really crank it (which still is flat to 20Hz).

Nice, I was looking for white when I bought the L12 last year...didn't know it came in white now....was just looking at the white F12 a couple weeks ago.

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post #36161 of 40616 Old 11-24-2018, 04:51 PM
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Two.
I was thinking that would be the answer. With a single FVX15 being cheaper than two L22's, it sounds like a better deal for a very large room. But, I've heard good things about dual subwoofer usage. The budget is quite tight (For arbitrary reasons, I'm not going broke.), and a single FVX15 likely all I will be allowed to ever get. It might be a stretch, but 2 L22's might be an eventual possibility with picking one up in January and then another a year or two later. The thing that's really pushing me towards the FVX15, is that I don't expect much room gain in my situation at all. I can't think of a better deal in terms of sound quality unless the HSU VTF-3 MK5 (The price right now is a bit tempting.) can seriously compete with the servo technology that Rhythmik uses. Another thing is sheer volume, or lack of desire for it. Nobody in this household puts the volume past -20, and that's only on rare occasions. Normal usage is around -30 to -40.
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post #36162 of 40616 Old 11-25-2018, 05:45 AM
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Another thing is sheer volume, or lack of desire for it. Nobody in this household puts the
volume past -20, and that's only on rare occasions. Normal usage is around -30 to -40.
I'm just going to observe that the "cleaner" the sound, i.e. lower distortion, higher S/N level, the louder people tend to listen. This includes bass that might be one note, booming, quality that starts to build up pressure at one frequency at higher volume levels. You'd be surprised how loud you might find yourself listening to your system when the sound is "clean".

Edit: Re-read this and realized the sentence about bass didn't make much sense. What I meant was that when you eliminate boom, one note bass, you tend to listen louder - even if the rest of your speakers sounded pretty good.
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Originally Posted by BluesDaddy56 View Post
I'm just going to observe that the "cleaner" the sound, i.e. lower distortion, higher S/N level, the louder people tend to listen. This includes bass that might be one note, booming, quality that starts to build up pressure at one frequency at higher volume levels. You'd be surprised how loud you might find yourself listening to your system when the sound is "clean".
A buddy of mine was over the other day and kept bugging me to crank the White Zombie CD even louder. I broke out the SPL meter and showed him we were hitting 112dB. He couldn’t believe it, and asked me when the last time I had the meter calibrated . Clean undistorted sound is very deceiving.

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post #36164 of 40616 Old 11-25-2018, 08:16 AM
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I'm just going to observe that the "cleaner" the sound, i.e. lower distortion, higher S/N level, the louder people tend to listen. This includes bass that might be one note, booming, quality that starts to build up pressure at one frequency at higher volume levels. You'd be surprised how loud you might find yourself listening to your system when the sound is "clean".

Edit: Re-read this and realized the sentence about bass didn't make much sense. What I meant was that when you eliminate boom, one note bass, you tend to listen louder - even if the rest of your speakers sounded pretty good.
Interesting. So you're saying my subwoofer requirements are likely going to be higher than I thought? Is there anywhere I can read more about this, so I can get a better understanding?
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post #36165 of 40616 Old 11-25-2018, 09:42 AM
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Interesting. So you're saying my subwoofer requirements are likely going to be higher than I thought? Is there anywhere I can read more about this, so I can get a better understanding?

Hi,

I think that there are several different factors in play when we talk about loudness. First, there is our master volume level. That is determined partly by listening preferences, in general, and partly by the room. A room with a lot of of hard surfaces may create so much higher frequency distortion that we tend to keep volume levels lower, without even realizing that the distortion is occurring. Distortion at higher frequencies tends to sound much louder than sound pressure levels alone would suggest. And, of course, not everyone likes loud volumes to begin with.

The second factor that we need to consider is our subwoofer volume, in relation to our master volume. As listening levels decrease, they decrease faster for low-frequencies than they do for those in our normal hearing range of about 500Hz to 5000Hz. Most of us find ourselves boosting our subwoofer volumes to compensate for the audible reduction in bass, at anything less than about Reference levels. That is particularly the case with action and blockbuster movies.

Again, speaking in generalities, as many of us go up in subwoofer quality, and start hearing/feeling <20Hz frequencies for the first time in our home theaters, we find ourselves enjoying it more than we anticipated, and we add more bass boost than we did previously in order to enhance the experience.

There is certainly a strong YMMV component to that, but I like the idea of getting the best subwoofer, you are considering, and leaving yourself the option to add a second one just like it. If you are sure that you won't do that, then two moderately powerful subwoofers to start with would be a good solution. Having two good subs will generally enable you to achieve a better, smoother frequency response. Eliminating random peaks and dips can certainly make the bass more enjoyable to listen to, and may also result in higher bass listening levels.

The Guide, linked in my signature, will give you a lot of information about how we hear sounds, and feel tactile sensations, in our rooms. I would especially encourage you to read Sections I, VII, and VIII, if you are interested in this subject.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #36166 of 40616 Old 11-25-2018, 01:22 PM
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Hi,

I think that there are several different factors in play when we talk about loudness. First, there is our master volume level. That is determined partly by listening preferences, in general, and partly by the room. A room with a lot of of hard surfaces may create so much higher frequency distortion that we tend to keep volume levels lower, without even realizing that the distortion is occurring. Distortion at higher frequencies tends to sound much louder than sound pressure levels alone would suggest. And, of course, not everyone likes loud volumes to begin with.

The second factor that we need to consider is our subwoofer volume, in relation to our master volume. As listening levels decrease, they decrease faster for low-frequencies than they do for those in our normal hearing range of about 500Hz to 5000Hz. Most of us find ourselves boosting our subwoofer volumes to compensate for the audible reduction in bass, at anything less than about Reference levels. That is particularly the case with action and blockbuster movies.

Again, speaking in generalities, as many of us go up in subwoofer quality, and start hearing/feeling <20Hz frequencies for the first time in our home theaters, we find ourselves enjoying it more than we anticipated, and we add more bass boost than we did previously in order to enhance the experience.

There is certainly a strong YMMV component to that, but I like the idea of getting the best subwoofer, you are considering, and leaving yourself the option to add a second one just like it. If you are sure that you won't do that, then two moderately powerful subwoofers to start with would be a good solution. Having two good subs will generally enable you to achieve a better, smoother frequency response. Eliminating random peaks and dips can certainly make the bass more enjoyable to listen to, and may also result in higher bass listening levels.

The Guide, linked in my signature, will give you a lot of information about how we hear sounds, and feel tactile sensations, in our rooms. I would especially encourage you to read Sections I, VII, and VIII, if you are interested in this subject.

Regards,
Mike
I'm very grateful for the response and your subwoofer guide. I have read a few parts of it, but that was weeks ago. I should reread what I read before, and read section I for the first time.
But my head isn't in the right space for that at this very moment. It's a lot of information to take in.
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Plan on running the sub 5-10dB higher than the mains. So if they listen at 75dB, expect the sub to be capable of around 90dB during peaks if you don't want to run into a situation where your sub is maxing out. You also want a little headroom to keep distortion low. A single F12 can hit that in a small room but it will be very near max output at 20Hz. I think if I watched a lot movies, I'd want 2 of them, or a single FVX15 or LVX12.

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Originally Posted by djreef View Post
A buddy of mine was over the other day and kept bugging me to crank the White Zombie CD even louder. I broke out the SPL meter and showed him we were hitting 112dB. He couldn’t believe it, and asked me when the last time I had the meter calibrated . Clean undistorted sound is very deceiving.

DJ
Was that A or C-weighted SPL? There can easily be a 20dB+ difference between the two if you're including low bass or not (which our ears hear at a much lower level on the equal loudness curve).

An audio enthusiast friend of mine explained it this way to me me a long time ago: many of the audible cues our brains use to determine loudness are based on distortion in the sound. As your speaker/sub quality improves those cues disappear and it becomes much harder to truly tell how loud something is.
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post #36169 of 40616 Old 11-26-2018, 12:33 PM
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^^^ Note C-weighted rolls of below 30 Hz... Either way 112 dB is awfully loud, I'd turn it down.

For many years one of the hallmarks of my system has been people hearing it do not realize how loudly it is playing until they turn to tell me and find they can't hear themselves let alone me. I listen at pretty low levels as I need my hearing. Age and tinnitus has taught me how stupid I was in my youth (which may not technically be over according to my wife ). I rarely mention it because younger folk are indestructible and blow off such advice anyway.

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Was that A or C-weighted SPL? There can easily be a 20dB+ difference between the two if you're including low bass or not (which our ears hear at a much lower level on the equal loudness curve).

An audio enthusiast friend of mine explained it this way to me me a long time ago: many of the audible cues our brains use to determine loudness are based on distortion in the sound. As your speaker/sub quality improves those cues disappear and it becomes much harder to truly tell how loud something is.
C-weighted. I couldn’t justify having it any louder and given that it was rock music made in the early 90’s, there’s that. Plus the wife was home, so...

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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Plan on running the sub 5-10dB higher than the mains. So if they listen at 75dB, expect the sub to be capable of around 90dB during peaks if you don't want to run into a situation where your sub is maxing out. You also want a little headroom to keep distortion low. A single F12 can hit that in a small room but it will be very near max output at 20Hz. I think if I watched a lot movies, I'd want 2 of them, or a single FVX15 or LVX12.
Another thing to take into account is that Audyssey can boost frequencies as much as 9 dB and cut them by as much as 20 dB in trying to hit the target curve. It will first determine how low the subwoofer can play by either the -3 dB or -6 dB point and then try to correct as low as 10 Hz. Here's the problem though: we have no way of knowing which frequencies and by how much Audyssey might be trying to boost by as much as 9 dB. Having multiple subwoofers can reduce this problem, since it should minimize standing wave nulls to some extent, but that doesn't mean that you still can't have a 5 to 10 dB null. So you might want to leave another 5 to 10 dB headroom, if you want to use Audyssey.

So even though I only listen at about -20dB usually, I like listening with about a 5 dB boost and want to leave about 9 dB headroom for Audyssey to boost and I end up with needing a subwoofer capable of about -5 dB or peaks of 110 dB.
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post #36172 of 40616 Old 11-26-2018, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Schrodinger23 View Post
Another thing to take into account is that Audyssey can boost frequencies as much as 9 dB and cut them by as much as 20 dB in trying to hit the target curve. It will first determine how low the subwoofer can play by either the -3 dB or -6 dB point and then try to correct as low as 10 Hz. Here's the problem though: we have no way of knowing which frequencies and by how much Audyssey might be trying to boost by as much as 9 dB. Having multiple subwoofers can reduce this problem, since it should minimize standing wave nulls to some extent, but that doesn't mean that you still can't have a 5 to 10 dB null. So you might want to leave another 5 to 10 dB headroom, if you want to use Audyssey.

So even though I only listen at about -20dB usually, I like listening with about a 5 dB boost and want to leave about 9 dB headroom for Audyssey to boost and I end up with needing a subwoofer capable of about -5 dB or peaks of 110 dB.

Hi,

I think it's always a good idea to leave ourselves a little extra headroom, as you have suggested. I think that having an extra 3 or 4db available is a good idea in order to prevent compression, or excessive THD, or port chuffing in the case of ported subwoofers, irrespective of whether someone has Audyssey.

But, for others reading along, I thought it might be helpful to clarify a couple of points about Audyssey. First, Audyssey is designed to stop EQing at the F3 point of any transducer, including subwoofers. It measures subwoofers all the way down to 10Hz, and it is capable of setting control points that low. But, once Audyssey determines that a subwoofer is rolling-off naturally by 3db, it will stop setting control points at that -3 point. It would be fairly rare for Audyssey to be setting any control points below ~15Hz unless a subwoofer had a very low port tune, and/or unless there was a lot of room gain.

The second thing that I think is sometimes overlooked in Audyssey discussions is the point that you made about the numerical difference between Audyssey's boosts and it's cuts. The ability to reduce peaks is deliberately greater than the ability to pull-up dips. The intent of the +9 boosts and the -20 cuts is to allow them to average-out over the sub's passband, without reducing the overall headroom. Since Audyssey is typically not EQing below the -3 point on a subwoofer, there would rarely be any +9 scenarios that would consume excessive headroom, when balanced against the cuts Audyssey was making at other frequencies.

For instance, if Audyssey tried to boost two nulls by a total of +18db, and pulled down three peaks of -6db apiece, depending on the frequencies involved, and the width of the dips and peaks, the net effect might be neutral with respect to overall headroom. This would obviously be situation-dependent, and people would need to perform compression tests both with, and without Audyssey, to be sure about their specific rooms and systems. But, I would not expect Audyssey to routinely reduce subwoofer headroom to any significant degree.

I would never say never, with respect to any of this, but generally speaking, I don't believe that using Audyssey should consume excessive headroom. In fact, I more often see Audyssey trying to reduce the effects of room gain below 20Hz, than I see it adding boosts below 20Hz. And, the low-frequencies would typically be the most significant ones from the standpoint of overall headroom.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 11-26-2018 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Clarity
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post #36173 of 40616 Old 11-26-2018, 05:01 PM
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Hi Rythmik,

Any sense of how far out the L12 in black oak is backordered? Would love to get one for Christmas.

Thanks,
Scott

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post #36174 of 40616 Old 11-26-2018, 05:03 PM
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Another thing to take into account is that Audyssey can boost frequencies as much as 9 dB and cut them by as much as 20 dB in trying to hit the target curve. It will first determine how low the subwoofer can play by either the -3 dB or -6 dB point and then try to correct as low as 10 Hz. Here's the problem though: we have no way of knowing which frequencies and by how much Audyssey might be trying to boost by as much as 9 dB. Having multiple subwoofers can reduce this problem, since it should minimize standing wave nulls to some extent, but that doesn't mean that you still can't have a 5 to 10 dB null. So you might want to leave another 5 to 10 dB headroom, if you want to use Audyssey.

So even though I only listen at about -20dB usually, I like listening with about a 5 dB boost and want to leave about 9 dB headroom for Audyssey to boost and I end up with needing a subwoofer capable of about -5 dB or peaks of 110 dB.
I was actually factoring in the 10dB after Audyssey. I've noted that is where my curves end up a lot of the time. So a sweep where the speakers are at 75dB will ramp up to 85dB down low. That is around -30 on the dial.

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post #36175 of 40616 Old 11-26-2018, 06:00 PM
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Hi Rythmik,

Any sense of how far out the L12 in black oak is backordered? Would love to get one for Christmas.

Thanks,
Scott
Container should arrive by mid-December but it could get delayed a couple of weeks, though.

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You'd be surprised how loud you might find yourself listening to your system when the sound is "clean".
More surprises when it causes a mess while sounding clean when things start falling off the shelves and/or light bulb falling off from the ceiling
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post #36177 of 40616 Old 11-27-2018, 06:57 AM
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^

When watching The Darkest Minds, I was surprised how clean the very loud 30Hz peaks were. I was tempted to turn up the volume until I realized it was already louder than normal.
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post #36178 of 40616 Old 11-27-2018, 08:44 AM
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Be careful to protect your hearing. It is easier to play things much louder than you think when the sound is clean.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Be careful to protect your hearing. It is easier to play things much louder than you think when the sound is clean.
Yeah, I noticed the L12 can play loudly with virtual no boominess vs the LV12R (except for that caused by floor rumble). I find it easier on the ears at 90dB peaks (maybe even 95dB at times) but too much leads to headaches so I try to use restraint.

That being said ultra clean bass is awesome. At some point I might try putting something absorbent under the sub to isolate it from the floor. My house has creaky floorboards, especially in the corner the sub is.

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At some point I might try putting something absorbent under the sub to isolate it from the floor. My house has creaky floorboards, especially in the corner the sub is.
I had two experiences recently where isolation under the sub made a very significant difference.


First, I sold my LV12R to a friend, who put it in his concrete basement. He set it on top of a foam mat. I was amazed how clean it sounded -- better to my ear than it sounded in my basement when I set it directly on carpet in a corner.


Second, I have an F18 that was really rattling baseboards quite badly when I set it directly on my carpet. After a few days I pulled the sub out, attached its rubber feet, and put it back in the same corner. The difference was stunning! Without things resonating nearly so badly, the bass is just incredibly clean.
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