Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 1252 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #37531 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
After I get them dialed in the way I like I think I will put the McIntosh Monoblocks on top of the subs as well. Should look intimidating.
Any concerns about the subwoofer vibrations affecting equipment on top of them?
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post #37532 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 01:40 PM
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Anyhow, I found the sealed Rythmik is the best way to enjoy bass in my room and plugging the ports of my bookshelves was also a very positive difference in the midbass region.

I personally like the lesser TR, better transient response, and easier integration of the L12. It makes listening to things louder more enjoyable despite actually having about 3dB less max output from 20Hz up than the LV12R.

(I never played the LV12R consistently as loud as the L12 in the 3 years I had it and I've only had the L12 for half a year.)

For me too much TR and thicker mid to upper bass just causes headaches and pressure in my ears. Sealed is easier to enjoy...


I'm not surprised you like the sealed Rythmik best in your room, it supports the general recommendation of sealed for smaller rooms.


Reading my post again, I hope I didn't leave the impression that I thought all subs sound the same for music, they do not. The point I wanted to make was what I think Don was alluding to, when comparing competently designed subs with quality drivers, it's tough to tell them apart blind.
I haven't been able to compare the L12 to something like the SVS SB-2000 in my room (though I've heard it at BB Magnolia).

However, I do believe that the sealed Rythmiks would stand out against comparable non-servo sealed subs (at least to my ears in my room which are quite sensitive to small differences).

I'd wager the difference between ported Rythmiks and comparable non-servo ported subs would likely be significantly more audible to most....

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post #37533 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieG View Post
I'm a curious why you made the switch.

I know the FV25HPs can go louder, but did you have the G25HPs turned all the way up and they weren't loud enough without distorting?

Looking like a music-forward setup you have, aren't the G25HPs tighter/more accurate being sealed vs. ported?
One thing that's not talked about as much, is it depends on your preferred curve. If you want a flatter response (more output than sealed down to the tuned frequency), go ported. If your preferences lean toward a more rounded response, which will lend itself to a midbass emphasis (until put in a small room that would bring up the low end as well), go sealed.

No comparisons can be made between the two styles until they are EQ'd to be identical, so take subjective impressions with a grain of salt. Many of the differences people describe may in fact be attributed to differences in the amplitude response.
I eq'd all my subs flat and with cut only PEQ, which helps preserve headroom vs boosting dips/nulls. However, the low end response between the SUB-1200, LV12R, and L12 were all quite different. And the Rythmiks have multiple bass extension/damping/rumble filter settings, which allows for many different low end response possibilities.

There would be many variables that make subjective SQ impressions just that (subjective), however, I personally don't believe several similar subs from competing manufacturers setup identically in the same room/position/eq/etc. would sound exactly the same. Similar in some aspects for sure, but not 100% indistinguishable.

Comparable Rythmik models likely would sound more or less the same like L12/F12 or FVX15/FV15HP. Especially since direct servo does allow Rythmik to make many different models without having to design each one completely independently of the others and yet getting very consistent results.

I am quite interested in reading Greg's final impressions between the flagship ported and sealed Rythmiks, especially since I believe that they use pretty much the same drivers and amps, just in different enclosures...
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post #37534 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I haven't been able to compare the L12 to something like the SVS SB-2000 in my room (though I've heard it at BB Magnolia).

However, I do believe that the sealed Rythmiks would stand out against comparable non-servo sealed subs (at least to my ears in my room which are quite sensitive to small differences).

I'd wager the difference between ported Rythmiks and comparable non-servo ported subs would likely be significantly more audible to most....
There are several accounts of blind sub tests on the forum and there's been almost universal recognition among the participants that identifying particular subs (even their own) was much more difficult than they thought; most couldn't do it. I'm picky about music support and went through a lot of sub iterations before arriving at my current setup. I've heard sealed Rythmiks (which I agree sound great), and I have no confidence whatsoever I could identify my subs from the Rythmiks blind, unless you turned things way up. You might be able to, I don't know. Some people have a trained ear and pick up things others don't. I have no particular talent in that regard but always knew I was missing a clean, integrated presentation for music with the subs I had until I got what I have now.
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post #37535 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post
There are several accounts of blind sub tests on the forum and there's been almost universal recognition among the participants that identifying particular subs (even their own) was much more difficult than they thought; most couldn't do it. I'm picky about music support and went through a lot of sub iterations before arriving at my current setup. I've heard sealed Rythmiks (which I agree sound great), and I have no confidence whatsoever I could identify my subs from the Rythmiks blind, unless you turned things way up. You might be able to, I don't know. Some people have a trained ear and pick up things others don't. I have no particular talent in that regard but always knew I was missing a clean, integrated presentation for music with the subs I had until I got what I have now.
I might have missed it, but what sub(s) do you have?
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post #37536 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 02:25 PM
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Any concerns about the subwoofer vibrations affecting equipment on top of them?
McIntosh amps are built like tanks. They go into some very high SPL setups and I am sure have been tested to some rigorous standards. I wouldn't be that concerned. I put my hand on the subs during some pretty high output stuff and it doesn't vibrate hardly at all. These are some beefy subs.

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post #37537 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post

This one is kind of dumb, I actually like seeing all 4 drivers. I have to admit, I like the "Wall" look of the setup now. After I get them dialed in the way I like I think I will put the McIntosh Monoblocks on top of the subs as well. Should look intimidating.

Greg
You're not the first person who kinda apologizes for things looking cool. I'm relatively poor, I have to go function/cost over form, although I certainly don't think my system looks bad, but if you have the money and proper space, there is absolutely nothing wrong with making sure you enjoy the sight as well as the sound.
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post #37538 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 02:50 PM
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I might have missed it, but what sub(s) do you have?


I have a pair of passive radiator subs that were custom made by John Janowitz over at Acoustic Elegance. They use the AV15H driver. I'm not sure if they're even available anymore, I got them about 9 years ago. I completely lost the upgrade bug after I got them. I have a Crown K2 for power.
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post #37539 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 02:52 PM
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Any concerns about the subwoofer vibrations affecting equipment on top of them?
They use really thick MDF. I have a tool case on top of one my F18s, and never hear a rattle. I can't say you can't feel anything, but it's very subtle.

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post #37540 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post
There are several accounts of blind sub tests on the forum and there's been almost universal recognition among the participants that identifying particular subs (even their own) was much more difficult than they thought; most couldn't do it. I'm picky about music support and went through a lot of sub iterations before arriving at my current setup. I've heard sealed Rythmiks (which I agree sound great), and I have no confidence whatsoever I could identify my subs from the Rythmiks blind, unless you turned things way up. You might be able to, I don't know. Some people have a trained ear and pick up things others don't. I have no particular talent in that regard but always knew I was missing a clean, integrated presentation for music with the subs I had until I got what I have now.
Yet, you can clearly hear the difference the servo makes by adjusting the damping setting between Hi, Med, and Low. It should not be difficult to pick out this sub from others that have no such control.

Also, I'd encourage you, and others, to read the following accounts (if you haven't seen them already): starting at this post and working towards the end. I don't doubt what these guys heard.

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post #37541 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 03:18 PM
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Yet, you can clearly hear the difference the servo makes by adjusting the damping setting between Hi, Med, and Low. It should not be difficult to pick out this sub from others that have no such control.

Also, I'd encourage you, and others, to read the following accounts (if you haven't seen them already): starting at this post and working towards the end. I don't doubt what these guys heard.

I did not read the thread in its entirety, but I've skimmed it previously and got the gist of it. I don't doubt the noted differences either and found the thread a valuable contribution to the forum. But it was not the type of exercise I was referring to.
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post #37542 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 03:49 PM
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I have a pair of passive radiator subs that were custom made by John Janowitz over at Acoustic Elegance. They use the AV15H driver. I'm not sure if they're even available anymore, I got them about 9 years ago. I completely lost the upgrade bug after I got them. I have a Crown K2 for power.
I visited their site, no search results for the AV15H. Poking around I found an interesting product
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post #37543 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 06:39 PM
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What are the official tunings of the LVX12’s. I see the 1P, 2P, and 1P-HT not the extensions but I’m not sure if that dictates the tune. The tune should be a function of the boxsize and the ports.

So 1 port and 2 port. 2 port likely has a higher tune with more midbass.

I’m trying to DIY a sub and want to match the tune with my Rythmiks.

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post #37544 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 06:44 PM
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Got the Martin Logan's angled for a wide sweet spot and have been messing with the subwoofers more. These things make it feel like you have unlimited power. I am running the gain at about 1 oclock and it still pounds. I like to have my subs match my mains for blending reasons.

If you want to see what Rythmik subs are all about try the track on Spotify/Tidal

Bass and Drum Intro - Nils Lofgren Band

Crank it up loud and wait for the bass guitar and drum solo at about 1 min into it. On an SVS sub it sounds so much muddier. These FV25's play it pretty damn close to my G25's but with even more punch and TR.

Let me know what you guys think


Greg
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post #37545 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 06:46 PM
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I visited their site, no search results for the AV15H. Poking around I found an interesting product
That's pretty crazy. I can't find any current references to the product either - it seems to be a talent of mine to buy things just before they're discontinued.


I did some digging and found a reference to the sub in an old GTG thread for anyone who's interested. There were a couple of versions, AV15X driver with 1600g PR's which had a 20 hz tune, and AV15H, 2500g PR with a 16 hz tune and a little less output, which is what I have. They're great subs.


I remember asking Brian about the F25, as that was something I would have gotten, but it was just a prototype at the time. There were a lot fewer high performing options back then.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post15938933
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post #37546 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 07:51 PM
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I visited their site, no search results for the AV15H. Poking around I found an interesting product
Sort of reminds me of Spatial Audio
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post #37547 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post

This one is kind of dumb, I actually like seeing all 4 drivers. I have to admit, I like the "Wall" look of the setup now. After I get them dialed in the way I like I think I will put the McIntosh Monoblocks on top of the subs as well. Should look intimidating.

Greg
yeah, seeing all of the drivers is where it's at. show us what it looks like already!


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post #37548 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 08:38 PM
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yeah, seeing all of the drivers is where it's at. show us what it looks like already!

He has given us a glimpse, no video yet
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57758478
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post #37549 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 08:53 PM
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He has given us a glimpse, no video yet
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post57758478
damn i missed that post, looks awesome though thanks for the link. at one time i was actually considering bribing rythmik to create a custom fv25 with the port holes in the center between the two drivers. it always flustered my OCD not being able to have symmetry running the three of them. will have the same problem again in the future i expect lol..

@muscles , you should consider testing the fv25's behind you if you have the space for it. granted your current setup looks incredible but having those drivers behind you (if it's possible) is something not many people get to experience. you should at least try it at least once.
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post #37550 of 44595 Old 03-17-2019, 09:16 PM
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damn i missed that post, looks awesome though thanks for the link. at one time i was actually considering bribing rythmik to create a custom fv25 with the port holes in the center between the two drivers. it always flustered my OCD not being able to have symmetry running the three of them. will have the same problem again in the future i expect lol..

@muscles , you should consider testing the fv25's behind you if you have the space for it. granted your current setup looks incredible but having those drivers behind you (if it's possible) is something not many people get to experience. you should at least try it at least once.
I cannot. That is the walkway into the house. My girl has already had it with me. I might try both ports in the middle. That might look pretty cool. I'd be curious how it would effect the sound. I have them sounding pretty amazing right now. Just a slight bit boomier than the G25hps. The low end has so much more weight and slam.

Greg
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imo rythmik makes ported subs with high output that most prefer over sealed...most ported subs I hear dont sound good to me...rythmik proved me wrong and happy to be owner of rythmik subs.

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Sort of reminds me of Spatial Audio


The Lumina series are a measly $25k/pr. I'll take 4.
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post #37553 of 44595 Old 03-18-2019, 05:52 AM
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What are the official tunings of the LVX12’s. I see the 1P, 2P, and 1P-HT not the extensions but I’m not sure if that dictates the tune. The tune should be a function of the boxsize and the ports.

So 1 port and 2 port. 2 port likely has a higher tune with more midbass.

I’m trying to DIY a sub and want to match the tune with my Rythmiks.
14Hz and 20Hz, respectively
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post #37554 of 44595 Old 03-20-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
I cannot. That is the walkway into the house. My girl has already had it with me. I might try both ports in the middle. That might look pretty cool. I'd be curious how it would effect the sound. I have them sounding pretty amazing right now. Just a slight bit boomier than the G25hps. The low end has so much more weight and slam.

Greg
Maybe once Muscles has had a little more time to acclimate himself to the new woofers he can provide some more detailed insight on music/movie performance versus the G25's...?
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post #37555 of 44595 Old 03-20-2019, 12:19 PM
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Maybe once Muscles has had a little more time to acclimate himself to the new woofers he can provide some more detailed insight on music/movie performance versus the G25's...?
It will take me some time to really get the FV25's dialed exactly how I like. I find that when you first hook up a new subwoofer that you are biased to the old ones sound no matter what. You have to actually break your ears in and get everything set and really listen to it for 20+ hours to really tell if you like it. I tend to give more of a visceral, real world evaluation of subwoofers. Output figures only tell part of the story, I am not looking to win a Home theater drag race, I need accuracy and quality. Both models deliver the goods there. The G25HP is a bit cleaner and tighter and the FV digs much deeper with authority. If you are music only go G25, if you are more movie based go FV. Either way you cannot go wrong.

I can give the G25HP a full evaluation. I listened to them many hours daily. They might be the most perfect hybrid sub, the sound quality is absolutely superb. That being said the FV25's lying down in front of me has yielded the best sound stage for my Martin Logan's. They play super tight and super deep with a ton of output. The FV's output is just out of this world in this room. I feel like I have unlimited headroom. Dual G25HP's should be on anyone's list who is serious about music, especially music with a lot of bass. Hearing it reproduce a bass guitar the first time will make you smile.

I have been listening to the FV's quite a bit and I am really starting to fall in love with them. I am slowly tweaking the amp settings and testing material I am familiar with. There is a lot more Tactile Energy with them. I will report back maybe this weekend. Might shoot a little video of them as well.

Greg

Subwoofers: Dual JTR RS1's - SB13 Ultra (bedroom)
Speakers: 2xJTR Noesis 212RT 1 210RM - KEF LS50W
Audio:McIntosh C2600 Pre - Marantz SR-8012 -Dual McIntosh 601's - PS Audio M700 - McIntosh MT5 - GoldNotePH10 - Oppo UDP-205 - BlueSound Node 2
TV: Samsung 75" Q9FN - Sony 75" 940D
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post #37556 of 44595 Old 03-20-2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
It will take me some time to really get the FV25's dialed exactly how I like. I find that when you first hook up a new subwoofer that you are biased to the old ones sound no matter what. You have to actually break your ears in and get everything set and really listen to it for 20+ hours to really tell if you like it. I tend to give more of a visceral, real world evaluation of subwoofers. Output figures only tell part of the story, I am not looking to win a Home theater drag race, I need accuracy and quality. Both models deliver the goods there. The G25HP is a bit cleaner and tighter and the FV digs much deeper with authority. If you are music only go G25, if you are more movie based go FV. Either way you cannot go wrong.

I can give the G25HP a full evaluation. I listened to them many hours daily. They might be the most perfect hybrid sub, the sound quality is absolutely superb. That being said the FV25's lying down in front of me has yielded the best sound stage for my Martin Logan's. They play super tight and super deep with a ton of output. The FV's output is just out of this world in this room. I feel like I have unlimited headroom. Dual G25HP's should be on anyone's list who is serious about music, especially music with a lot of bass. Hearing it reproduce a bass guitar the first time will make you smile.

I have been listening to the FV's quite a bit and I am really starting to fall in love with them. I am slowly tweaking the amp settings and testing material I am familiar with. There is a lot more Tactile Energy with them. I will report back maybe this weekend. Might shoot a little video of them as well.

Greg
That is great to hear Greg! Once you post more details we can either that to the impressions thread or enter it there and link it here. May be @David Charles would be interested in your music comments...
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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #37557 of 44595 Old 03-20-2019, 12:39 PM
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Anybody here compare the F18 versus the G25 in terms of sound quality and output. I know based on the numbers the G25 outputs a bit more but I'm just wondering how that sub can work out when I would need to put the sub reasonably close to the back wall. Also I would like to do a pair of subs and the G25 is a bit more than the F18, it adds up when going for 2. (Plus I'm leaning towards Piano Gloss). Either sub is going to kick my Velodyne F-1800RII's butt so that part I'm not too worried about.

Home Theater 5.1 Setup: Marantz AV8805, Sunfire TGA-7401, Monitor Audio Gold GX300 Front/Rear, Monitor Audio Gold GXC 350 Center, Rythmik Audio G25HP, Oppo UDP-203, Samsung PN64F8500
PC Audio 5.1 Setup: Denon AVR-X3300W, Monitor Audio Gold GX100 Front/Rear, Monitor Audio Gold GXC 150 Center, Rythmik Audio F12SE
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post #37558 of 44595 Old 03-20-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Bechtold View Post
Anybody here compare the F18 versus the G25 in terms of sound quality and output. I know based on the numbers the G25 outputs a bit more but I'm just wondering how that sub can work out when I would need to put the sub reasonably close to the back wall. Also I would like to do a pair of subs and the G25 is a bit more than the F18, it adds up when going for 2. (Plus I'm leaning towards Piano Gloss). Either sub is going to kick my Velodyne F-1800RII's butt so that part I'm not too worried about.
Putting it against the wall is not a problem, just face the amp either towards you for easy access or against the wall if you want to hide it.

System 1: Samsung Plasma | Denon X4500H | Hypex Ncore NC252MP | Buchardt S400 | Polk LSiM 702 F/X | Heights TBD | Subs TBD Rythmik
System 2: Laptop | NAD T758 v3 | PSB Imagine B
System 3: PC | Micca OriGen G2 | Mackie MR624
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post #37559 of 44595 Old 03-20-2019, 04:44 PM
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Question - Rhythmic F12 vs Rhythmic E15HP vs REL T9/i

I have an open floorplan living room with a kitchen behind it and a hallway attached. It is about 650 sq. feet total.
What would be better a Rel T9/i; Rhytmhic F12 or Rythmic E15HP2?

Do I need the 15" driver on the Rhythmic since it is fully sealed and the REL has a passive radiator?

My wife does not like a lot of heavy base;
She does of course prefer musical and sealed subs.
Size is also a bit of an issue; I can fit the 15" but the wife may not like it as much as a 12".
Would a 15" sub be overpowering for my wife? I want to be able to 'feel' the subwoofer but I'm not sure my wife does.


I think I would like the impact of a sub that fills in that 15-25hz range that the REL drops off at (REL is technically -6DB @ 29hz, but does seem to sound better then it's stats).

Last edited by Dan Silverstein; 03-20-2019 at 04:45 PM. Reason: clarifying subject
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post #37560 of 44595 Old 03-20-2019, 04:47 PM
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^^ It is always better to have more than less. There is a gain/volume knob on every subwoofer Get the 15”.
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