Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 1322 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #39631 of 39712 Old 08-14-2019, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jbarteli View Post
What would be common sense in my situation with the 1 or 2 port, rumble filter en damping options?
I got the FV15HP in a small closed HT room, 11ft x 14ft. (3.3meters x 4.3 meters) The sub is placed directly behind my couch with woofer facing the couch.
Best sound quality and extension would be 14Hz/high damping/rumble filter off with 1 port plugged (rumble filter must be on for 2 port mode).

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post #39632 of 39712 Old 08-14-2019, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Best sound quality and extension would be 14Hz/high damping/rumble filter off with 1 port plugged (rumble filter must be on for 2 port mode).
Thanks!
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post #39633 of 39712 Old 08-14-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by muscles View Post
I would say this isn't common practice. I am sure a few do it, but your main speakers are probably the most important part of your theater/music experience. A good chunk of your budget should be spent on the LCR to get the most out of your system, its even more expensive if you like to listen to audiophile grade music and its playback.



Greg
Indeed! The LCR are the most important (especially the mains) all else literally revolves around them, get that right (positioning ,toeing and raking) and your ready for it all both movies and audiophile music
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post #39634 of 39712 Old 08-14-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Glad it work out well for you
I once ask in the REW thread, if someone could verify find my findings from the Room Simulator. Since I am not sure, I was using this tool the right way, to have an idea of the placements options.
But no one responded
I didn't respond in the REW thread, but I did respond here and we had a discussion about this.
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post #39635 of 39712 Old 08-14-2019, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I didn't respond in the REW thread, but I did respond here and we had a discussion about this.
Hi Alan

I do remember our conversation, in that thread. And you mentioning that my present locations, for both subs in the front were more likely not the best. My last response to you, was answering your questions. For the reason I could not use the same locations and that I was going my SMS-1, instead of the REW.


And will do that next week on my days off. But for me it is still fishing in the dark, for the second sub been near the back wall. While the first sub would stay at the present location of my front right one.


Since I am not sure that I am using the REW Room Simulator the right way, and was asking if someone could take a few minutes. To plug in my distances and dimensions to verify, if I was doing it the right way.
And was just responding that no one either confirm or deny my findings

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post #39636 of 39712 Old 08-14-2019, 06:13 PM
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We've had a report of OT discussions. Guys let's keep it on topic.

THanks
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post #39637 of 39712 Old 08-14-2019, 07:54 PM
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^^ Really? Someone reported! These owner threads get OT all the time
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post #39638 of 39712 Old 08-14-2019, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ Really? Someone reported! These owner threads get OT all the time
Totally agree. Unless OT takes over a thread, who cares? Well, obviously somebody, but why? My favorite posts are from people who rarely post except to complain about OT. Ugh.
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post #39639 of 39712 Old 08-14-2019, 08:15 PM
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anyone run their rythmik subs in stereo without them close to front speakers?

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post #39640 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
anyone run their rythmik subs in stereo without them close to front speakers?
Not my Rythmiks, but other subs, sure. Just make sure the delays are set properly so everything is in-phase at the MLP. That said, I went back and forth a lot over the years and finally decided stereo subs were more hassle than they were worth. Almost zero content puts the deep bass in stereo and all the sonic placement cues for things like drums and such is higher in frequency than the sub range. Getting stereo subs to play well together and with the mains in a room is all too often a huge PITA. Maybe just me...
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post #39641 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 08:28 AM
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Need some recommendation regarding Rythmik Subwoofers.

I have a dedicated Home Theater room(11 x 21 x 9) in the basement which is being upgraded slowly. My dream is to finish the HT room in proper 7.1.2 configuration to have Atmos and DTS:X for movies. My original plan was to upgrade my receiver this year with a budget of $1000-1200 but my old ED A2-300 subwoofer gave up on me 2 weeks ago. It served me well for 12 yrs and it cannot be repaired as parts of the amplifier are no longer in production.

So decided to get proper subwoofer(s) instead of a receiver this year as without it movies are no fun. I have attached pictures of my HT room to give you guys some clarity. I have considered SVS, HSU and Rythmik subwoofers and pretty much decided to get a Rythmik after Dennis and Jim Salk recommended.

So here is what i was thinking with budget of <$1000. I would like to stay close to $750 as it will save me some $$$ towards my receiver soon.

Option 1: Get a LVX12 with 400W amplifier
Option 2: Get a dual sealed L12's

Let me know if there is a better 3rd option to consider. I want to get a proper subwoofer and not skimp on it. I am currently leaning towards LVX12. If it's dual then i would like to have it in smaller size so two can fit on either side of the center console. Any recommendations/suggestions are welcome!

My current equipment:
Mains: Philharmonics Slim Towers in Curly cherry with rosewood dye (Built by Jim Salk)
Center: Philharmonic MTM Center(Same veneer and built by Jim Salk)
Surrounds: Some polk stuff left over by previous owner
Amplifier: Emotiva XPA-5
Receiver: Denon AVR-989 (To be upgraded soon)
Bluray Player: Oppo BDP103
Acoustics: 2 GK panels and 1 soffit bass traps
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post #39642 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcons023 View Post
Need some recommendation regarding Rythmik Subwoofers.

I have a dedicated Home Theater room(11 x 21 x 9) in the basement which is being upgraded slowly. My dream is to finish the HT room in proper 7.1.2 configuration to have Atmos and DTS:X for movies. My original plan was to upgrade my receiver this year with a budget of $1000-1200 but my old ED A2-300 subwoofer gave up on me 2 weeks ago. It served me well for 12 yrs and it cannot be repaired as parts of the amplifier are no longer in production.

So decided to get proper subwoofer(s) instead of a receiver this year as without it movies are no fun. I have attached pictures of my HT room to give you guys some clarity. I have considered SVS, HSU and Rythmik subwoofers and pretty much decided to get a Rythmik after Dennis and Jim Salk recommended.

So here is what i was thinking with budget of <$1000. I would like to stay close to $750 as it will save me some $$$ towards my receiver soon.

Option 1: Get a LVX12 with 400W amplifier
Option 2: Get a dual sealed L12's

Let me know if there is a better 3rd option to consider. I want to get a proper subwoofer and not skimp on it. I am currently leaning towards LVX12. If it's dual then i would like to have it in smaller size so two can fit on either side of the center console. Any recommendations/suggestions are welcome!

My current equipment:
Mains: Philharmonics Slim Towers in Curly cherry with rosewood dye (Built by Jim Salk)
Center: Philharmonic MTM Center(Same veneer and built by Jim Salk)
Surrounds: Some polk stuff left over by previous owner
Amplifier: Emotiva XPA-5
Receiver: Denon AVR-989 (To be upgraded soon)
Bluray Player: Oppo BDP103
Acoustics: 2 GK panels and 1 soffit bass traps
I'd go with duals. And while some will say 2 L12s won't have enough output or tactile response under 30Hz or so, I'd say you'll get nice extension and room gain from dual sealed subs in that 2,000 cubic foot room as long as it is sealed to the rest of the house.

I'd only go with the LVX12 if you can add a 2nd later...
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Samsung 55" MU8000
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post #39643 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ Really? Someone reported! These owner threads get OT all the time
So, is REW talk OT?? I wouldn't think so, but you never know.....
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post #39644 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
The best placements I found was the following (due to my room restrictions, I can only use the right side [see pictures on my Theater threads]);
-Sub 1, 45.275 in/1.15 m. From the right wall, and 3 in/0.076 m from the front wall
-Sub 2 around 3 in/0.076 m, from the back and right wall.


If anyone would verified those locations, it would be greatly appreciated!!!
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Hi Alan

I do remember our conversation, in that thread. And you mentioning that my present locations, for both subs in the front were more likely not the best. My last response to you, was answering your questions. For the reason I could not use the same locations and that I was going my SMS-1, instead of the REW.


And will do that next week on my days off. But for me it is still fishing in the dark, for the second sub been near the back wall. While the first sub would stay at the present location of my front right one.


Since I am not sure that I am using the REW Room Simulator the right way, and was asking if someone could take a few minutes. To plug in my distances and dimensions to verify, if I was doing it the right way.
And was just responding that no one either confirm or deny my findings

I plugged your numbers into the room sim and it does indeed look like those locations will give you a nice, rising response (80hz-20hz) with only a couple large peaks (62hz, 70hz) and XT32 should be able to bring those down quite easily.

The only issue I see is time-alignment. As far as I can tell, the SMS-1 doesn't do delay, only phase adjustment.

If it was me, I would skip the SMS-1 and just use both sub outs on the AVR so that SubEQ HT can time-align the subs properly. You will then want to do the Sub Distance Tweak to get the entire sub "system" in phase with the mains/CC.
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post #39645 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I plugged your numbers into the room sim and it does indeed look like those locations will give you a nice, rising response (80hz-20hz) with only a couple large peaks (62hz, 70hz) and XT32 should be able to bring those down quite easily.

The only issue I see is time-alignment. As far as I can tell, the SMS-1 doesn't do delay, only phase adjustment.

If it was me, I would skip the SMS-1 and just use both sub outs on the AVR so that SubEQ HT can time-align the subs properly. You will then want to do the Sub Distance Tweak to get the entire sub "system" in phase with the mains/CC.
I had the SMS-1 and it does phase (delay) from 0 - 180 with 15 degrees increments. It works very similar to our phase/delay knob.
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post #39646 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I'd go with duals. And while some will say 2 L12s won't have enough output or tactile response under 30Hz or so, I'd say you'll get nice extension and room gain from dual sealed subs in that 2,000 cubic foot room as long as it is sealed to the rest of the house.

I'd only go with the LVX12 if you can add a 2nd later...
I like L12's because of their small footprint. Can anyone shed some light on key differences between L12 and F12-300? I know there are a lot of charts but i don't know what i am looking at

Since F12-300 is on sale...If it is significantly better, i can consider that may be. Also, by going sealed...will i miss any bass from ported subwoofers for movies? I play movies in my HT room 80% of the time.

Last edited by Falcons023; 08-15-2019 at 12:34 PM.
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post #39647 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcons023 View Post
So here is what i was thinking with budget of <$1000. I would like to stay close to $750 as it will save me some $$$ towards my receiver soon.
When listing the budget, I always recommend spending the upper limit. The sub is the most important part of your movie watching experience. And since you are more into movie, my preference would be for ported sub, the FVX15 is within your upper limit.
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post #39648 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcons023 View Post
I like L12's because of their small footprint. Can anyone shed some light on key differences between L12 and F12-300? I know there are a lot of charts but i don't know what i am looking at

Since F12-300 is on sale...If it is significantly better, i can consider that may be. Also, by going sealed...will i miss any bass from ported subwoofers for movies? I play movies in my HT room 80% of the time.
I believe several posters here use F12s subs in smaller sealed rooms such as yours appears to be in the photos. They report single digit low end frequencies, in the 7Hz range, due to room gain in sealed rooms. Rythmik folks should be able to answer this. IIRC, enricoclaudio runs F12s with great bass.

I'm quite happy with my F12 in a 1,100 cuft sealed room.
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post #39649 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
When listing the budget, I always recommend spending the upper limit. The sub is the most important part of your movie watching experience. And since you are more into movie, my preference would be for ported sub, the FVX15 is within your upper limit.
I was just looking at FVX15. I was thinking just this Subwoofer will do and don't need to add another. It's little above my price range but also, i don't need to add another subwoofer down the line.

FVX15 has +8db over F12 at 20hz
LVX12 has +4db over F12
F15HP has +11db over F12

Something i need to think a lot about. May be wait a month or two and get the FVX15. F15HP sounds really good but out of my budget
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post #39650 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 01:49 PM
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You meant the FV15hp has +11db over F12. I would save up, don't cheap out on sub.
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post #39651 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcons023 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I'd go with duals. And while some will say 2 L12s won't have enough output or tactile response under 30Hz or so, I'd say you'll get nice extension and room gain from dual sealed subs in that 2,000 cubic foot room as long as it is sealed to the rest of the house.

I'd only go with the LVX12 if you can add a 2nd later...
I like L12's because of their small footprint. Can anyone shed some light on key differences between L12 and F12-300? I know there are a lot of charts but i don't know what i am looking at [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif[/IMG]

Since F12-300 is on sale...If it is significantly better, i can consider that may be. Also, by going sealed...will i miss any bass from ported subwoofers for movies? I play movies in my HT room 80% of the time.
The F12-300 has an aluminum cone and a bit larger enclosure and bit more extension. However, it lacks an LFE inputs and has a single Line In only. L12 has dual Line Ins and LFE inputs. LFE input bypasses the sub's built in low pass filter to let the modern day AVR or pre-pro handle all bass management. Dual Line In can be useful if you have an AVR with low pre-out voltage on the sub output by using a y adapter to double the input gain (+6dB) going into the sub. I find it useful with my L12 and Yamaha RX-A2070 AVR.

As for whether sealed or ported is best for mostly movies, people usually say ported for tactile response and ULF output but 2 L12s net you about 3-6dB over just one depending on placement and the ULF range will likely get the full 6dB because the wavelengths at those frequencies are so long that placing the subs on each side of the TV stand will be an insignificant distance apart in the ULF frequency range.

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcons023 View Post
So here is what i was thinking with budget of <$1000. I would like to stay close to $750 as it will save me some $$$ towards my receiver soon.
When listing the budget, I always recommend spending the upper limit. The sub is the most important part of your movie watching experience. And since you are more into movie, my preference would be for ported sub, the FVX15 is within your upper limit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt2026 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcons023 View Post
I like L12's because of their small footprint. Can anyone shed some light on key differences between L12 and F12-300? I know there are a lot of charts but i don't know what i am looking at [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif[/IMG]

Since F12-300 is on sale...If it is significantly better, i can consider that may be. Also, by going sealed...will i miss any bass from ported subwoofers for movies? I play movies in my HT room 80% of the time.
I believe several posters here use F12s subs in smaller sealed rooms such as yours appears to be in the photos. They report single digit low end frequencies, in the 7Hz range, due to room gain in sealed rooms. Rythmik folks should be able to answer this. IIRC, enricoclaudio runs F12s with great bass.

I'm quite happy with my F12 in a 1,100 cuft sealed room.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
When listing the budget, I always recommend spending the upper limit. The sub is the most important part of your movie watching experience. And since you are more into movie, my preference would be for ported sub, the FVX15 is within your upper limit.
I was just looking at FVX15. I was thinking just this Subwoofer will do and don't need to add another. It's little above my price range but also, i don't need to add another subwoofer down the line.

FVX15 has +8db over F12 at 20hz
LVX12 has +4db over F12
F15HP has +11db over F12

Something i need to think a lot about. May be wait a month or two and get the FVX15. F15HP sounds really good but out of my budget [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif[/IMG]
Are duals important to you? If you get one LVX12 or FVX15 can you get another eventually and do you have flexibility of placement for 2 large ported subs?

Also, do you listen at reference level ever for movies or music? What are your typical listening levels on current AVR?

Personally, I like the idea of 2 smaller sealed sub (even 2 L22s if you want more output than the L12/F12 can offer) because of greater flexibility of placement and because of maximum extension and room gain utilization. Also, because I had the LV12R before the L12 in a room about half your size and greatly prefer the sound of the L12, which is flat to 6Hz in my room. Though I don't listen very loud at all, usually around -30MV for Blu-ray Movies.
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post #39652 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 02:15 PM
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You meant the FV15hp has +11db over F12. I would save up, don't cheap out on sub.
Sorry, I meant FV15HP. confused with all those model numbers i am reading up. Will definitely think about saving up on this. Does Rythmik does any sale for holidays?
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post #39653 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt2026 View Post
I believe several posters here use F12s subs in smaller sealed rooms such as yours appears to be in the photos. They report single digit low end frequencies, in the 7Hz range, due to room gain in sealed rooms. Rythmik folks should be able to answer this. IIRC, enricoclaudio runs F12s with great bass.

I'm quite happy with my F12 in a 1,100 cuft sealed room.
I really love the footprint of sealed subs. Looking at F12-300 especially since it's on sale. How do FV15HP compare to 2 F12-300's. I can definitely place each F12 in opposite corners in my room. More food for thought
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post #39654 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
The F12-300 has an aluminum cone and a bit larger enclosure and bit more extension. However, it lacks an LFE inputs and has a single Line In only. L12 has dual Line Ins and LFE inputs. LFE input bypasses the sub's built in low pass filter to let the modern day AVR or pre-pro handle all bass management. Dual Line In can be useful if you have an AVR with low pre-out voltage on the sub output by using a y adapter to double the input gain (+6dB) going into the sub. I find it useful with my L12 and Yamaha RX-A2070 AVR.

As for whether sealed or ported is best for mostly movies, people usually say ported for tactile response and ULF output but 2 L12s net you about 3-6dB over just one depending on placement and the ULF range will likely get the full 6dB because the wavelengths at those frequencies are so long that placing the subs on each side of the TV stand will be an insignificant distance apart in the ULF frequency range.





Are duals important to you? If you get one LVX12 or FVX15 can you get another eventually and do you have flexibility of placement for 2 large ported subs?

Also, do you listen at reference level ever for movies or music? What are your typical listening levels on current AVR?

Personally, I like the idea of 2 smaller sealed sub (even 2 L22s if you want more output than the L12/F12 can offer) because of greater flexibility of placement and because of maximum extension and room gain utilization. Also, because I had the LV12R before the L12 in a room about half your size and greatly prefer the sound of the L12, which is flat to 6Hz in my room. Though I don't listen very loud at all, usually around -30MV for Blu-ray Movies.

Thanks a lot for explaining the differences in detail. I might be able to place 2 sealed subwoofers comfortably but ported ones might be little difficult. Ported can go on each side of the center console may be. I do play movies little loud but nowhere close to reference level...

I need to think about all these details before pulling the trigger...
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post #39655 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcons023 View Post
Sorry, I meant FV15HP. confused with all those model numbers i am reading up. Will definitely think about saving up on this. Does Rythmik does any sale for holidays?
Rythmik does small sales occasionally. Usually small amounts of about $50, I'd say. I suspect that it really only happens when they guess wrong on how well a certain product will sell, or when they introduce a new product. I believe my F18's were still on the intro discount when I got them. The fact they don't ever do deep discount sales probably points to them not having a big margin in the first place. It least that's my interpretation.
I wouldn't let the small chance of a sale influence your opinion. I believe they offer a discount of about $50 on most, if not all of their subs if you buy more than one.
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post #39656 of 39712 Old 08-15-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcons023 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
The F12-300 has an aluminum cone and a bit larger enclosure and bit more extension. However, it lacks an LFE inputs and has a single Line In only. L12 has dual Line Ins and LFE inputs. LFE input bypasses the sub's built in low pass filter to let the modern day AVR or pre-pro handle all bass management. Dual Line In can be useful if you have an AVR with low pre-out voltage on the sub output by using a y adapter to double the input gain (+6dB) going into the sub. I find it useful with my L12 and Yamaha RX-A2070 AVR.

As for whether sealed or ported is best for mostly movies, people usually say ported for tactile response and ULF output but 2 L12s net you about 3-6dB over just one depending on placement and the ULF range will likely get the full 6dB because the wavelengths at those frequencies are so long that placing the subs on each side of the TV stand will be an insignificant distance apart in the ULF frequency range.





Are duals important to you? If you get one LVX12 or FVX15 can you get another eventually and do you have flexibility of placement for 2 large ported subs?

Also, do you listen at reference level ever for movies or music? What are your typical listening levels on current AVR?

Personally, I like the idea of 2 smaller sealed sub (even 2 L22s if you want more output than the L12/F12 can offer) because of greater flexibility of placement and because of maximum extension and room gain utilization. Also, because I had the LV12R before the L12 in a room about half your size and greatly prefer the sound of the L12, which is flat to 6Hz in my room. Though I don't listen very loud at all, usually around -30MV for Blu-ray Movies.

Thanks a lot for explaining the differences in detail. I might be able to place 2 sealed subwoofers comfortably but ported ones might be little difficult. Ported can go on each side of the center console may be. I do play movies little loud but nowhere close to reference level...

I need to think about all these details before pulling the trigger...
Take your time, and if there is a Rythmik owner in your area willing to let you demo any of these subs, might be worthwhile.

Samsung 55" MU8000
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Rythmik L12 Sealed Subwoofer
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Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
Rythmik does small sales occasionally. Usually small amounts of about $50, I'd say. I suspect that it really only happens when they guess wrong on how well a certain product will sell, or when they introduce a new product. I believe my F18's were still on the intro discount when I got them. The fact they don't ever do deep discount sales probably points to them not having a big margin in the first place. It least that's my interpretation.
I wouldn't let the small chance of a sale influence your opinion. I believe they offer a discount of about $50 on most, if not all of their subs if you buy more than one.
Most Internet direct companies don't have a lot of margin. I like ID companies as they have good product and service. You can tell from my equipment list too in the above post.

I want my sub already...watching movies without sub is not fun. I need to decide how to achieve what i want and just get it. Looks like i need to save up more
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Take your time, and if there is a Rythmik owner in your area willing to let you demo any of these subs, might be worthwhile.
This would be awesome if someone are in North Atlanta area. What's the best way to find out?
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Originally Posted by Falcons023 View Post
Most Internet direct companies don't have a lot of margin. I like ID companies as they have good product and service. You can tell from my equipment list too in the above post.

I want my sub already...watching movies without sub is not fun. I need to decide how to achieve what i want and just get it. Looks like i need to save up more
Consider getting two LVX12, one at a time. I believe Rythmik will give a discount on the 2nd one if you order it within a certain amount of time. That should (I think) give you similar performance to an FV15HP, with the advantage of being able to smooth out room response with two subwoofers, and the other advantage of you being able to get one right away. Also, if it turns out to be enough, you save a lot of money if you don't get the 2nd one.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LVX12.html
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
Serious question: I notice many folks with very large subwoofers have bookshelf speakers as mains. Wouldn’t you want mains that can put out significant amounts of air in the 60 - 120 Hz range to blend with the subwoofers?


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Don't forget the crossover is not a hard stop. I believe Audyssey's crossover is usually a 12db lowpass, so sub output would be 6db down at 120hz with an 80 hz crossover, or -6db at 150 hz with a 100 hz crossover. So the subs are still contributing beyond the crossover point.


While more midbass output is better than less, it's one of many factors in choosing mains. The best midbass bang for the buck retail would be pro audio speakers, but not everyone would like the sound or appearance.
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