Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 1435 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #43021 of 44712 Old 05-13-2020, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SD1290 View Post
Sometimes when my FV15HP powers on it makes an audible thump sound. I’m assuming this is normal?
No thump on mine. I can hear a click when they’re powered on.
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post #43022 of 44712 Old 05-13-2020, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I guess everyone is different. Did you have the fv15 in one or two ports open mode? Did you already order a fv18 and a tv1812? Are they coming soon? Looking forward to read your impressions comparing the two.
I ran it with both configurations. I haven't ordered a FV18 yet, Last time I checked they are on back order. I'll email Enrico for availability. I already pre-ordered a TV1812 but there is no shipping date due to the pandemic.

One thing is this time I'll be able to measure both subs as I have a Umik-1 and REW now.
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post #43023 of 44712 Old 05-13-2020, 09:32 PM
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^* You might want to order quick as I believe the fv18 might be out of stock soon. Measurements do help painting the picture, so please post compression graphs. Too bad we cannot get that from PSA.
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post #43024 of 44712 Old 05-13-2020, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^* You might want to order quick as I believe the fv18 might be out of stock soon. Measurements do help painting the picture, so please post compression graphs. Too bad we cannot get that from PSA.
Good point. IDK why Tom doesn't send his Subs in to Josh. Im sure he has his reasoning. Sorry didn't realize you have a FV15HP, I didn't mean to say anything bad about your subs or Rythmik, I have nothing but respect for Rythmik and all of their subs they sell. I always recommend them on AVS, Reddit and audioholics.
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post #43025 of 44712 Old 05-13-2020, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
IMHO order a FV18 Paper cone and a PSA TV1812 and keep whatever sounds best to you in YOUR room. Rythmik...PSA you can't go wrong with either.
You have no idea how close I am to trying an FV18. I might see what it would cost to send it back if I don't like it compared to my PB13Ultra.
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post #43026 of 44712 Old 05-13-2020, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by steve1616 View Post
You have no idea how close I am to trying an FV18. I might see what it would cost to send it back if I don't like it compared to my PB13Ultra.
Get a FV18. I have never owned a PB13 ultra ( I hear they are amazing) nothing last forever...the PB13 ultra is getting old and the Amp will probably fail soon. My PB12-NSD went through two Amps.
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post #43027 of 44712 Old 05-13-2020, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
Get a FV18. I have never owned a PB13 ultra ( I hear they are amazing) nothing last forever...the PB13 ultra is getting old and the Amp will probably fail soon. My PB12-NSD went through two Amps.
My amp went bad last year so I got the new SVS amp that is in the PB4000. It actually improved how the sub acts at its limits. It wont let the sub go further than its supposed to. The sub still seems in great shape. I placed it close to my chair tonight to satisfy my urge for more bass and it hit very well. Thats why I am curious about all the people that have moved on from the PB13Ultra.

I forgot to add that I am curious about the lower tuned subs also. I am not sure how much the tune makes a difference because I don't think my PB13Ultra is all that great in extended mode. The tests on data bass would make you think that the extended mode is the way to go, but it hits harder and has quite a bit more umph in standard mode. The new amp has made it closer, but standard still hits better and sounds cleaner.
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post #43028 of 44712 Old 05-13-2020, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by steve1616 View Post
The tests on data bass would make you think that the extended mode is the way to go, but it hits harder and has quite a bit more umph in standard mode. The new amp has made it closer, but standard still hits better and sounds cleaner.
That makes a lot of sense. Databass is great and all but nothing can beat actually hearing and feeling what sounds best to you in YOUR room.
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post #43029 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
SVS who? The F18 is awesome! Smooth, detailed, and gets scary low when needed. I need another soon to even the response in room. Seeing as I'm used to having duals I can localize where the bass is coming. I mean this sub is a beast.
For me the sub shootout was between the pb2000 and the FVX12. Small ones I know but a building complex with multiple floors and a pre constructed room does make it impossible to get things perfect. Staying on rents also means the next room may not be as big as the current one and the heavier the woofer the more you need to lift. The FVX12 blew the svs to smithereens. It isn’t bad, but I had a lot of issues hearing the bass on svs whereas I could even feel pressure with the FVX12. As soon I was about to order they announced the pb pro. Again some new fancy jargon of “new and improved” (like a fruit company does every 6 months) made me wait. After the long wait I auditioned the Pb2kPro and still didn’t feel the pressure that I experienced with the Rythmik.

Even with the FVX12 running -9db on sub out and a 75% volume gain on dual FVX12 I’m able to get a close to 85db and for demo I have set one of the MiniDSP configure close to 90db. Mine isn’t a perfect room, but the bass from my previous woofers was puny. Now the wife is a bit scared sitting through huge action scenes. .
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post #43030 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
Hopefully you fellow Rythmik folks can help me figure out what is happening. I don't have localization issues with my dual subs but it is very similar. My crossover is set to 80Hz and the bass "sounds" like it is coming from all directions like normal. The issue is how I'm feeling the bass.


I did a sub crawl and some trial and error. I ended up placing my sub in the front right corner of the room and the 2nd up against the same right wall but located just behind my couch. So with both subs on the right side I am experiencing a pressure in my right ear that isn't there, or at least not at the same level, in my left ear. I know my dual FVX12 subs will struggle fully pressurizing my 5,000 ft3 space but I have never understood what that really meant. If they were fully pressurizing the room would my ears "feel" the bass equally like they hear it?


I guess in summary, is this something I'm feeling because both subs are on my right side? Or is this something I am feeling because both subs are on my right side AND i'm not getting full pressurization?
Hey bro. So I shall use a bit of physics and try to keep up.
So subwoofer crawl is a very primitive method. The reason one did it was to kinda not sit in the standing waves lul. Now for the the first thing you need to do before the sub crawl is to calculate the standing wave frequency for your room, then you play a sin wave at that frequency and then crawl. There will be 3 different base frequencies (h/w/l) and their multiples which will create standing waves.
Why I call or primitive and useless is coz while you can awkwardly place the subwoofer (assumption) 3feet from the left wall and 5 feet from the back wall as per subcrawl, it’ll be pretty difficult to raise the sub 2 feet in height. Therefore everyone suggests the MiniDSP. With that in place I’ve put my subs symmetrically on L&R of my front wall since my MLP is only the front row. We get the back row occupied only once in a month or so. This isn’t to advertise a product, I’m just stating the benefits one gets with a dsp.
Next I’d recommend you to also refer harman studies for multi subwoofer here . https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/00da/51387c572cfd27c0256cb15e44e976a1a72e.pdf
If I remember correctly if you’re setting woofers at the back and front they should be either Front mid+ back mid/FL+BR/FR+BL.
If you want the simplest and easiest solution, go to the back wall and start the sub crawl from 1/3rd from corner. So if your room is 18 foot wide, start on the back wall 6’ from the left back corner and find a spot either on the back wall or anywhere across the left wall.
Hope this helps. I’ll also wait a bit for some one else to verify my understanding on the subject before you start the heavy lifting.
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post #43031 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
Get a FV18. I have never owned a PB13 ultra ( I hear they are amazing) nothing last forever...the PB13 ultra is getting old and the Amp will probably fail soon. My PB12-NSD went through two Amps.
Hi,

Indeed they are

I use to own two PB13, before replacing them with my current dual FV18. While I do prefer my new Rythmik, those SVS have serve me very well for many years. And never failed in my space, during very heavy bass moments. Even when new and better design do come along, with new technology.

And +1 about the Amp since no plate Amp last for ever. Mine were around 10 year old with the original BASH Amp, before selling them. While they were still working, when doing a demo for the new owner. One of them died soon after, and feeling bad about it I offer him his money back. But he decided just to replace both Amps, for the two subs.


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post #43032 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 06:38 AM
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The lfe channel goes up to 120hz and the crossover is not a brick wall so frequencies above 80 hz are still being produced. I experienced the same thing when I installed two subwoofers on top of each other in my living room and the issue disappeared when I symmetrically put one on the right and one on the left.

The subcrawl is not a recommended method for determining the best location for your subs. If your room is rectangular, I would start by using the room simulator feature of REW. Ideally, you need a calibrated microphone to do some measurements and aside from determining the best location, it is very useful to find the best crossover frequency to your individual speakers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
Hopefully you fellow Rythmik folks can help me figure out what is happening. I don't have localization issues with my dual subs but it is very similar. My crossover is set to 80Hz and the bass "sounds" like it is coming from all directions like normal. The issue is how I'm feeling the bass.


I did a sub crawl and some trial and error. I ended up placing my sub in the front right corner of the room and the 2nd up against the same right wall but located just behind my couch. So with both subs on the right side I am experiencing a pressure in my right ear that isn't there, or at least not at the same level, in my left ear. I know my dual FVX12 subs will struggle fully pressurizing my 5,000 ft3 space but I have never understood what that really meant. If they were fully pressurizing the room would my ears "feel" the bass equally like they hear it?


I guess in summary, is this something I'm feeling because both subs are on my right side? Or is this something I am feeling because both subs are on my right side AND i'm not getting full pressurization?
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post #43033 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
Good point. IDK why Tom doesn't send his Subs in to Josh.
You can forget about him sending sub to data-bass. He wouldn't even post numbers or graphs on his own website or anywhere and people have been asking for it including some diehard psa fans. IMO, as long as he can get his fans guessing/estimating and posting numbers, he feels he does not have to , so please stop guessing!
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post #43034 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by steve1616 View Post
The tests on data bass would make you think that the extended mode is the way to go, but it hits harder and has quite a bit more umph in standard mode. The new amp has made it closer, but standard still hits better and sounds cleaner.
This is one of the advantages of a sub that supports multi-tune. While the extra extension is great, it comes at the expense of output elsewhere. With the PB-13, it looks like you lose 8 db at 16.5 hz which is a LOT. With the Rythmik subs, the difference isn't as great so there is less sacrifice.

I have always felt that extra extension is the icing on the cake once you have enough output everywhere else. If the lower tune results in not having enough output elsewhere (where there is far more content), it isn't a good trade-off.
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post #43035 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
The lfe channel goes up to 120hz and the crossover is not a brick wall
Hey stranger, it's been a loooong while since I see your post after we met. Your system changes alot since your fv15hps
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post #43036 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 07:59 AM
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I ran it with both configurations. I haven't ordered a FV18 yet, Last time I checked they are on back order. I'll email Enrico for availability. I already pre-ordered a TV1812 but there is no shipping date due to the pandemic.

One thing is this time I'll be able to measure both subs as I have a Umik-1 and REW now.

I have a V1512 and though I am happy with it, I think I am already looking for more, particularly for more extension. The FV18 seems to be the best choice overall, but I am wary of attempting to drag 180 lb (more than I weigh) to the second story of my house. I wonder if anyone has such a sub on the second floor. The TV1812 is also a consideration and trading in would quickly solve the problem of disposing of the V1512, but I won't preorder a sub and I am concerned there will never be a quantitative comparison available between the FV18 and the TV1812.
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post #43037 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 08:09 AM
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I have a V1512 and though I am happy with it, I think I am already looking for more, particularly for more extension. The FV18 seems to be the best choice overall, but I am wary of attempting to drag 180 lb (more than I weigh) to the second story of my house. I wonder if anyone has such a sub on the second floor. The TV1812 is also a consideration and trading in would quickly solve the problem of disposing of the V1512, but I won't preorder a sub and I am concerned there will never be a quantitative comparison available between the FV18 and the TV1812.
I have 2 for the FV18s in my media room upstairs. Just need a pair of hands to help. Unboxing is easy and detailed instructions come with the sub. The boxing I saw is the best I have seen and how easy it was to operate, and I have ordered from SVS, JTR, PSA, Seaton....
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post #43038 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 08:19 AM
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The TV1812 is also a consideration and trading in would quickly solve the problem of disposing of the V1512, but I won't preorder a sub and I am concerned there will never be a quantitative comparison available between the FV18 and the TV1812.
Try to sell your v1512 as I am sure any trade in will be less value. Regarding the fv18/tv1812 comparison, you will have better chance with @rhelliott2 than waiting for data from PSA. Hurry up rhelliott2, take one for the team
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post #43039 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 08:23 AM
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I have a V1512 and though I am happy with it, I think I am already looking for more, particularly for more extension. The FV18 seems to be the best choice overall, but I am wary of attempting to drag 180 lb (more than I weigh) to the second story of my house. I wonder if anyone has such a sub on the second floor. The TV1812 is also a consideration and trading in would quickly solve the problem of disposing of the V1512, but I won't preorder a sub and I am concerned there will never be a quantitative comparison available between the FV18 and the TV1812.
Wow can't you invite a friend over to help carry the sub upstairs? Sometimes I think I have FOMO... I've been happy with my PSA V15 sub for a couple years until I got a Umik-1 and REW... Before I ever saw my FR... I was happy, music sounded great, movies provided good ULF & great mid-bass. Once I saw my actual frequency response it looked like a freaking roller coaster lol ( due to nulls and lack of room treatment) that's the only reason why I started my ULF/mid-bass / FLAT FR chase down the rabbit hole I go...

I wonder... what matters more? Having a nice FLAT pretty FR graph? Or feeling and hearing what sounds best to you? I know that is clearly subjective... hence why having a measurements are so important...it's like having a muscle car or sports car that sounds great/looks great...but when you go to the drag strip or a track event you have a horrible 1/4 time and or slow lap time... Same can be Said there... Some people just wanna enjoy the ride...some people wanna chase those 1/4 times and best lap times. You just gotta ask yourself... what's more important to YOU?
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post #43040 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 08:28 AM
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I have 2 for the FV18s in my media room upstairs. Just need a pair of hands to help. Unboxing is easy and detailed instructions come with the sub. The boxing I saw is the best I have seen and how easy it was to operate, and I have ordered from SVS, JTR, PSA, Seaton....

I cut handles into the side of the V1512 box so I could easily lift the box and bring it upstairs myself, but I am not sure whether I can manage the additional 80 lb of an FV18. Unfortunately, it is difficult to find someone of roughly equal strength to help because of the COVID situation.
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post #43041 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 08:52 AM
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The subcrawl is not a recommended method for determining the best location for your subs.
Since when? In the absence of measuring equipment it has always been considered a solid plan B.
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post #43042 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 08:52 AM
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I cut handles into the side of the V1512 box so I could easily lift the box and bring it upstairs myself, but I am not sure whether I can manage the additional 80 lb of an FV18. Unfortunately, it is difficult to find someone of roughly equal strength to help because of the COVID situation.
This whole Covid stay in place will (hopefully) be lifted soon.... depending on your county. Mine should be open in the next couple weeks. If we lived closer I would come over and help a fellow AVS user. Its fun to have GTG with other AVS,
audioholics,Reddit and other forum users.
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post #43043 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 08:54 AM
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Wow can't you invite a friend over to help carry the sub upstairs? Sometimes I think I have FOMO... I've been happy with my PSA V15 sub for a couple years until I got a Umik-1 and REW... Before I ever saw my FR... I was happy, music sounded great, movies provided good ULF & great mid-bass. Once I saw my actual frequency response it looked like a freaking roller coaster lol ( due to nulls and lack of room treatment) that's the only reason why I started my ULF/mid-bass / FLAT FR chase down the rabbit hole I go...

I wonder... what matters more? Having a nice FLAT pretty FR graph? Or feeling and hearing what sounds best to you? I know that is clearly subjective... hence why having a measurements are so important...it's like having a muscle car or sports car that sounds great/looks great...but when you go to the drag strip or a track event you have a horrible 1/4 time and or slow lap time... Same can be Said there... Some people just wanna enjoy the ride...some people wanna chase those 1/4 times and best lap times. You just gotta ask yourself... what's more important to YOU?

Unfortunately, with all of the COVID paranoia, it would take some time before anyone whom I trust to be capable of moving the subwoofer with me would be willing and available. I couldn't even get my arms around the V1512 to lift it without cutting handles in the box, so I suspect the FV18 could be a challenge even with a second person. The opening to my second floor gameroom is also a bit tricky and I once had to abandon moving a sofa up there because it would not fit.

There are a few reasons that I am considering a different subwoofer:
  • The FR of the V1512 in its current location is actually already pretty flat, with no nulls or extreme peaks. The issue is that it begins rolling off below 30 Hz in my room and is 3 - 4 dB down at 20 Hz. Before running measurements, I noticed it felt a bit lacking on the low-end, though it does vary somewhat from seat-to-seat. Once I ran sweeps, the FR curves confirmed what I had been hearing. Overall, the SQ is good and I don't listen at extremely loud volumes (MV generally = -20 MV), but I can feel the low-end lacking at times.
  • At some point, I am considering adding a second sub. However, I don't want to do so until I am convinced that I am completely content with the first sub, as selling two will be more difficult than one.
Another option is that I stick with a 15" sub and consider a FV15HP, which will certainly be easier to move and fit in my room. I doubt anyone has directly compared the FV15HP and the V1512, so I am not sure whether this would be a lateral move.

Last edited by JD23; 05-14-2020 at 09:00 AM.
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post #43044 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
I wonder... what matters more? Having a nice FLAT pretty FR graph? Or feeling and hearing what sounds best to you?
You hear with your ears not your eyes so the former should overrule the latter.

Tuning and adjusting until the measurements show a good result is never a bad thing, but what happens if that doesn't sound right to you? Change it until it does. And yes that is subjective, but so is everything about what you like in audio. Almost everyone reading this has added a bit more bass after running their room EQ system for the same reason. It's like a recipe in that regard; follow what it says but if the food doesn't taste the way you want then add a pinch more of this or a dash of that until it does.

 
If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite.

BTW, did you really need to quote the entire post?
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post #43045 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 08:59 AM
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I haven't been that active on avs lately.. I haven't changed my system much for the last 3 years .. just minor tweaks but that is a good thing
I do miss my Rythmiks .. I still have people occasionally asking me if I still have them for sale 4 years later

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Hey stranger, it's been a loooong while since I see your post after we met. Your system changes alot since your fv15hps
drh3b and yllanos like this.

My 7.10.4 home theater
Speakers: 3 JTR 212HTR (LCR), 2 Jtr Single 8LP (S), 2 JTR Triple 12LF (SB)) , 4 Volt 10LX (Atmos)
Subwoofers: 10 Sealed UXL-18, 5 Crowson Shadow 8 transducers, 3 Buttkicker LFE
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post #43046 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
You hear with your ears not your eyes so the former should overrule the latter.



Tuning and adjusting until the measurements show a good result is never a bad thing, but what happens if that doesn't sound right to you? Change it until it does. And yes that is subjective, but so is everything about what you like in audio. Almost everyone reading this has added a bit more bass after running their room EQ system for the same reason. It's like a recipe in that regard; follow what it says but if the food doesn't taste the way you want then add a pinch more of this or a dash of that until it does.
I agree %100
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post #43047 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rhelliott2 View Post
I wonder... what matters more? Having a nice FLAT pretty FR graph? Or feeling and hearing what sounds best to you?
Knowing that I have a flat response FIRST and that anything I add is NOT added on top of something else that has been added without my knowledge.


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post #43048 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 09:36 AM
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Since when? In the absence of measuring equipment it has always been considered a solid plan B.

In my opinion, it is just a shot in the dark so I wouldn’t call it recommended.. something like the room simulator (which doesn’t require measurement gear) would make a better alternative..

My 7.10.4 home theater
Speakers: 3 JTR 212HTR (LCR), 2 Jtr Single 8LP (S), 2 JTR Triple 12LF (SB)) , 4 Volt 10LX (Atmos)
Subwoofers: 10 Sealed UXL-18, 5 Crowson Shadow 8 transducers, 3 Buttkicker LFE
Display: JVC RS400

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post #43049 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
[LIST][*]The FR of the V1512 in its current location is actually already pretty flat, with no nulls or extreme peaks. The issue is that it begins rolling off below 30 Hz in my room and is 3 - 4 dB down at 20 Hz. Before running measurements, I noticed it felt a bit lacking on the low-end, though it does vary somewhat from seat-to-seat. Once I ran sweeps, the FR curves confirmed what I had been hearing.
wow that is crazy, rooms can change the FR big time. FWIW here is my FR with my V1510 I have a horrible room... i have alot to work on.
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post #43050 of 44712 Old 05-14-2020, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
Unfortunately, with all of the COVID paranoia, it would take some time before anyone whom I trust to be capable of moving the subwoofer with me would be willing and available. I couldn't even get my arms around the V1512 to lift it without cutting handles in the box, so I suspect the FV18 could be a challenge even with a second person. The opening to my second floor gameroom is also a bit tricky and I once had to abandon moving a sofa up there because it would not fit.

There are a few reasons that I am considering a different subwoofer:
  • The FR of the V1512 in its current location is actually already pretty flat, with no nulls or extreme peaks. The issue is that it begins rolling off below 30 Hz in my room and is 3 - 4 dB down at 20 Hz. Before running measurements, I noticed it felt a bit lacking on the low-end, though it does vary somewhat from seat-to-seat. Once I ran sweeps, the FR curves confirmed what I had been hearing. Overall, the SQ is good and I don't listen at extremely loud volumes (MV generally = -20 MV), but I can feel the low-end lacking at times.
  • At some point, I am considering adding a second sub. However, I don't want to do so until I am convinced that I am completely content with the first sub, as selling two will be more difficult than one.
Another option is that I stick with a 15" sub and consider a FV15HP, which will certainly be easier to move and fit in my room. I doubt anyone has directly compared the FV15HP and the V1512, so I am not sure whether this would be a lateral move.
Brian use to drive to Dallas very often. Just 6 months ago, another customer from Dallas who got a pair of FV18s, got them delivered personally by Brian to his house and Brian himself helped the customer carrying the subwoofers. This Dallas customer is always here on AVS Forum but I'm not authorized to tell his name

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik G22 (x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
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