Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 1438 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #43111 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 04:13 PM
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A tale of three subwoofers....its a long story, so grab a cold one and buckle in.

Let me start from the beginning, for perspective, and how I finally arrived to where I am. Started out many years ago with a nice little JBL HtiB setup with coffee cup sized satellite 5.1 system with 8" "subwoofer". As is usually the case for all of us starting out, it was completely awesome!!!! Remember those days? I'm sure most of us started there. Seriously though, it was so much better than TV speakers. Sounds coming from all around. A drastically better experience than TV speakers.

After moving, and one of the components failing, I had to get a new AVR and sub since the HtiB sub was passive. I bought an entry level Yamaha RXV-375 from Best Buy, along with a Polk PSW-110. I almost got some 8" model, but the giant Polk 10" sounded beefier in the store, so I got the enormous Polk sub. Wife agreed it was enormous. She wasn't completely happy but went along with it, and agreed it sounded better than the HtiB sub. Well, I was still using the little coffee cup sized JBL satellites. Started researching. Ended up buying some enormous speakers.....Hsu HB-1 bookshelves and HC-1 center channel. Wife almost cried when she saw the enormous center channel sitting on the mantle. True story. She got used to it, and came to appreciate the better sound quality of the decent quality Hsu speakers. Well then I had to continue reading and researching. Found out the Polk PSW-110 was not the cats meow after all and ordered an SVS PB12NSD. Wowzers! My first 20 Hz sub. Two weeks later the PB2000 came out so I traded. Realized I was hitting the PB's output limits in the mid and upper bass pretty easy, so ordered a PSA XS30.....their original dual opposed sealed 15" sub.

The XS30 is the first sub that caused my wife an anxiety attack due to the amount of mid bass this thing could produce on music. Learned about the benefits of duals but a 2nd XS30 was out of budget, so traded for dual XV15se, PSA's small ported 15" subs. These were a great value. With the help of REW and a miniDSP, I eq'd a house curve with a beautiful rising response down to 16 Hz. I ran these for a good year or two and they sounded fantastic. With the boosted low end response, I was able of course to find their output limits on movies. I couldn't afford bigger better ID subs so I delved into DIY

DIY: I bought a couple of 4 ft^3 sealed flat packs and a SI HT-18 driver for $189. It was the super bargain DIY driver of its time. I hit 107 dB at 20 Hz in room with an Inuke amp with one of these. Then I added an HST-18...a MONSTER 70 lb driver. Driven with an Inuke 6k, this sick beast of a subwoofer hit 114 dB in my room at 20 Hz on a sine wave sweep with low distortion!!!!!! It took every last drop of power my Inuke 6000 could dish out, and just laughed. With plans on adding a matching HST, I sold the HT-18 and, just for kicks, ordered a Dayton PA-460 pro audio driver for $89 to play with while I saved up for the HST-18. WHAT? This 6mm xmax(I think) driver absolutely caved your chest in with mid bass compared to the HT-18 driver I sold. The combo of HST-18 and PA-460 was PHENOMENAL. Deep bass galore and stunning mid bass. Hello pro audio drivers!!!!!

This led me to purchase a pair of what I believe are the best all around 18" drivers made....BMS18n862. They are tested on Data-Bass. In fact, I bought them from Ricci
These things were incredible. Combined, slightly more output down low than the HST-18 was capable(yes, that driver was stupid beast mode down low). A little above reference capable down to 10 Hz and below with a sine wave. Clean, crisp, crushing, concussive mid bass with unlimited headroom. And not only that, but also the lowest distortion driver ever tested.

Then I sold them. Why? Well, my system is in my living room. I like to have a clean, polished, elegant and user friendly system. I currently have very nice looking piano black tower speakers. In wall surround speakers that match my wall colors. All wiring nicely routed and hidden. My DIY subs had state of the art, world class performance. But the pro audio amp was manual on/off. Fans ran full time and were audible. My house does not have central heat air so dust build up over time which of course leads to heat and failure. Finish quality was mediocre at best. Although mostly hidden, this still bothered me. Also, with 18's, no single dimension can be small. They are just big everywhere for a living room. I wanted a narrower baffle, auto on, no fan noise, superb finish quality.....a nice polished subwoofer system to match the rest of my setup.

PSA came out with their new B&C pro audio drivers in their subs, which of course caught my interest. Very high sensitivity, very high motor strength, light cones, high power handling, low distortion, and very good xmax for pro audio drivers are really something special imo. The concussive mid bass you get from this type of driver has to be experienced to be truly understood, just as reference level capability from ported subs down to 10 Hz has to be experienced to be understood.

The PSA S1512 were at the top of my budget, so I ordered up a pair. I was hoping they would perform similarly up top on music with mid and upper bass, as I didn't want to give that up. I knew I would lose some low end, but was willing to give it a shot in order to get the smaller cab size, polished fit and finish, auto on, etc etc.

Well, I made the mistake of underestimating how much I appreciated the low end capability of the BMS subs I had. I mean, these things would max burst 104-107 dB at 20 Hz in a 4ft^3 sealed cab.

Let me touch briefly on the PSA subs....they perform *very* well for what they are... a very small sealed 15" sub. Their capability on music was just stunning...absolutely unlimited headroom on music. Powerful, clean, crisp, crushing mid bass capability. I was literally blown away and I think they did not give up anything on my BMS in this regard. The amps PSA uses have *very* good burst output...so couple with the very high sensitivity and high power handling of the excellent B&C drivers...they just pound and sound amazing. Most people would be very happy with these for movies and music if they are not looking for full reference level capality with subs hot and DEQ rolling. In other words, you can't ask more than ANY small sealed sub is capable of giving. I watched Underwater and was super impressed with the overall presentation.

On really demanding LFE scenes, I could tell they were a little soft. Only because of my experience with much more capable subs did I realize there was more there that I wasn't getting. I'd guess 99% of all people would be completely blown away and would think anyone was nuts to want more. But I wanted more down low. It's not a knock against the PSA S1512's...they are truly excellent for what they are.

So I ordered the FV15HP's. They have held the top spot for low tuned ported 15's for ten years. Baffle is only 18" wide which makes them fit my room very well despite the overall larger size. They are only 1" wider than the sealed subs from PSA. I can accommodate the height and depth in my room without being imposing. Going ported, I knew I wanted a low tuned sub to not give up the extension of my sealed subs. An 18" ported sub is too big for my room. The Hsu VTF15.2 does not pass my or my wifes aesthetic requirements...just the design. The Monolith 15 is bigger and I'm not willing to pass up the customer service one gets from companies like Rythmik and PSA. PSA's low tuned 15 is not being produced yet.

This is what led me to the FV15HP's. Next post, FV15HP impressions. I apologize for so much non Rythmik commentary, but ALL of the above is what led me here. Which in the end is also a compliment for Rythmik.
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post #43112 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 04:33 PM
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Ok, so this post will focus entirely(I hope) on Rythmiks FV15HP. I have owned quite a handful of entry level AND rather capable subs.

I chose the FV15HP for the following reasons:

-It is one of the three best 10-120 Hz 15" ported subs made. Check.
-I wanted a low tuned sub with solid extension to below 15 Hz. Check.
-I wanted a stable company with great customer service. Check(looking at you Enrico)
-I wanted a sub that has more clean output capability than I can ever use for my listening needs. Check.
-I wanted a narrow baffle dimension in order to fit my room unobtrusively. Check.
-I wanted a sub with good sound quality. Check.

The Monolith performs very well, as good or *slightly* better down low, but the Rythmik outperforms it on the mid and upper bass. This was EXTREMELY important to me based on my past experience. I also feel a lot better about Rythmiks service, the community in general. I feel like if an amp fails outside of warranty someday, Brian will repair the amp at a reasonable cost. Just as an example.

Impressions. I got these subs three days ago on Tuesday late afternoon. I literally unplugged my other subs and hooked these up using the previous Audyssey calibration. I adjusted level on music by ear and played with them a bit. Wife already approved, surprisingly, despite their drastically larger size than what was in place(small sealed 15's).

Over then next couple of days, I ran Audyssey and did some REW measurements. I knew before starting that I wanted to run them in 1 port mode for the extension. Other than that, I was not sure. However, despite the seemingly endless smorgasbord of amp controls, it turns out they aren't that complicated after all. I mean, yes you have to set several switches in the correct orientation, but there are only a couple of things you have the option to adjust once configured correctly for either 1 port or two port.

I used LFE in to get the most extended top end response in case I wanted to cross higher than 80 Hz.

I started with high damping for the lowest extension possible but, after measurements, I ended up on low damping. This change rolled off response a little bit only below 15 Hz, but I gained 3 dB of max output capability at 20 Hz with this change. It also boosted the frequency response between 16-30 Hz by about 2.3 dB. I know that this is by far the most tactile range in my room, creating tremendous shaking on LFE. 10 Hz doesn't do much in my room even at reference level, so I'm good with this beneficial trade off.

Ok, movies. I did a bunch of LFE demo scenes. You know which scene I *haven't* done? Edge of Tomorrow. IMO, its one of the worst scenes to use as a demo. Who cares about sine waves? No action on screen to accompany the sound. I couldn't care less about this scene. What I did use is the grenade scene in WWZ. The Washington Monument scene in Olympus Has Fallen. The pod emergence scene in War of the Worlds. The giant Lycan scene in Underworld Awakening. Now these are demo worthy scenes. Awesome on screen action with LFE that draws you into the scene. LFE that shakes the entire house.

The FV15HP's perform flawlessly for me on these scenes, with VERY impressive, very tactile LFE that just shakes the entire house, my floor, the couch. I run the subs close to 10 dB hot, so at -15 MV(my preferred listening level) with DEQ on, I am asking reference level output from the subs. The FV's deliver without any audible strain at these levels. Which again, is asking for reference level output from the subs. In fact, in underworld Awakening, there was TOO much bass...it was obnoxious and overwhelming so I had to dial things back some on the trim levels. The FV's handled this scene with great composure. So for LFE, they completely meet my most demanding listening needs on the most demanding LFE scenes without calling any attention to themselves.

Now for music. Well, gang, I come with pretty unrealistic expectations on music performance. Not just sound quality, but on clean, uncompressed, unlimited headroom for concussive, accurate, lifelike mid bass. The type of mid bass you would experience if a drummer was literally in your room kicking his drum, pounding your chest with those sharp transients. It takes a tremendous amount of capability to recreate this accurately, and its stunning once you experience. Despite max burst numbers on paper, most normal subwoofers compress the signal up top once output levels start to rise...its the nature of the beast with normal sensitivity subs. A high sensitivity pro audio driver produces a sharp, concussive mid bass kick thats just different from a regular sub. I had to experience it to understand. So again, my expectations are *very* high in this regard.

So having seen a few Rythmik owners using the PEQ control to assist in this area, along with the advice from the superbly helpful Enricoclaudio, I used the PEQ control for +3dB at 60 Hz with maximum bandwidth. This change helped add a nice level of mid bass kick on music. Measured with REW as shown in one of my previous sweeps, it gives a nice 40-80 Hz boost. Being 100% honest, the FV15HP's cannot quite match what a good pro audio driver can do up top. Having said that, I was able to obtain a REALLY nice, satisfying and powerful mid bass kick on music with this setup. Combined with the exceptionally strong LFE performance, the overall combination is the right one for my needs. And honestly, the mid bass advantage is only clearly noticed when listening levels are turned up FAR louder than I ever listen for anything other than a brief demo. The LFE performance will be used on every movie I watch. And music performance is 100% acceptable at my normal, common listening levels of -50 to -25 MV for music. And VERY VERY good on crazy loud -5 to 0 MV demos. Completely satisfied with the sound quality overall.

In summary, these are the right subs for me, and I'm happy with them. Can't wait to kick back and just enjoy some normal movie viewing, rather than calibrating, measuring, adjusting, fiddling etc. Its worth it getting them optimized. But in the end, its using them that really matters.

I hope no one is bothered by the long back story I provided, but I hope some of you appreciate these posts and leaves you with an appreciation for how I arrived here. If there are any specific questions about a different brand, please PM me as to keep the Rythmik thread about Rythmik. Thanks for reading.

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post #43113 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 04:49 PM
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As a final commentary, just wanted to share the rest of my equipment briefly that the FV15HP's are complimenting. I have Revel F36 towers with triple 6.5" woofers, Revel C25 center, and Revel W263 in wall surround speakers. They are powered by a Denon X3300H AVR, which provides room eq only below 500 Hz on my speakers via the Audyssey app, along with SubEqHT for the subs. I use DEQ always but turn the surrounds down about 4 dB after calibration as DEQ tends to make the surrounds a bit obnoxious. I measured with REW to confirm it runs them hot. I use a 4k Apple TV for all my streaming and music. Display is a 75" Samsung Q80R QLED. My room unfortunately will not easily accommodate a projection setup. I have a Sony BDPS-5100 blu ray player. I no longer purchase hard copies of blu rays but rather purchase 4k on Apple TV for those that are worthy of owning. Worth mentioning, imo, is my Harmony Companion remote. It performs flawlessly 100% of the time with extreme user friendliness. IR so no line of sight required. ONLY downside is that the remote is not backlit, but the keys are very intuitive and fairly easy to use even in the dark for most common commands. Cables of course are simply 12g OFC. Just added a set of smart phone controlled LED backlights for my TV. Kinda cool I guess? It was cheap so figured I'd try it. Thats it. My home theater/audio/video journey is complete for the foreseeable future, other than just enjoying it.
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post #43114 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
I hope no one is bothered by the long back story I provided, but I hope some of you appreciate these posts and leaves you with an appreciation for how I arrived here. If there are any specific questions about a different brand, please PM me as to keep the Rythmik thread about Rythmik. Thanks for reading.
Great write up. I'm hoping (and fully expecting) to make a similar post within a week. For a preview, my sub journey looks like this:

Bose Acoustimass (don't laugh) -> Klipsch Sub12 -> Dual V1510 -> Dual V1811 -> Single TV36-iPal -> TBD
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post #43115 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 05:22 PM
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FV18 extension and CSL vs Minidsp UMIK readings

Check out the crazy in room extension of my FV18s as well as the higher SPL reading from the CSL umik that is calibrated to 5hz. Over 100db at 7hz listening at -10MV.

Sorry about the 10bd increment graph. It switched on me last minute

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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #43116 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 05:30 PM
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@bear123

Hi,

From your review, that was an excellent and informative write-up "I used the PEQ control for +3dB at 60 Hz with maximum bandwidth."

The funny thing, after some experimentations a few months ago. I end up using the same settings on my FV18 PEQ, to increase my mid bass. And like you, I really did enjoy the results


Darth

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post #43117 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
FV18 extension and CSL vs Minidsp UMIK readings

Check out the crazy in room extension of my FV18s as well as the higher SPL reading from the CSL umik that is calibrated to 5hz. Over 100db at 7hz listening at -10MV.
Man do I wish my theater room was in a closet with a suspended floor. Big rooms suck!

Electronics: Denon X4400, Vizio M65
Sub: Rythmik FV18-PC x 2
Speakers: 3 x Chane A2.4 LCR, DIYSG Volt-6 Surrounds
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post #43118 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
Great write up. I'm hoping (and fully expecting) to make a similar post within a week. For a preview, my sub journey looks like this:

Bose Acoustimass (don't laugh) -> Klipsch Sub12 -> Dual V1510 -> Dual V1811 -> Single TV36-iPal -> TBD
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
Man do I wish my theater room was in a closet with a suspended floor. Big rooms suck!
Be careful of what you are wishing for
This would not have alloyed you, to have such a great journey for your sub/s


Darth

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post #43119 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 05:47 PM
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@bear123

Hi,

From your review, that was an excellent and informative write-up "I used the PEQ control for +3dB at 60 Hz with maximum bandwidth."

The funny thing, after some experimentations a few months ago. I end up using the same settings on my FV18 PEQ, to increase my mid bass. And like you, I really did enjoy the results


Darth

Yes, in fact you are the very person I remember seeing this from! Along with Enrico's recommendation it seemed a no brainer to try it! So thanks for the tip you are unaware you gave me!!
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post #43120 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 06:03 PM
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As a final commentary, just wanted to share the rest of my equipment briefly that the FV15HP's are complimenting. I have Revel F36 towers with triple 6.5" woofers, Revel C25 center, and Revel W263 in wall surround speakers. They are powered by a Denon X3300H AVR, which provides room eq only below 500 Hz on my speakers via the Audyssey app, along with SubEqHT for the subs. I use DEQ always but turn the surrounds down about 4 dB after calibration as DEQ tends to make the surrounds a bit obnoxious. I measured with REW to confirm it runs them hot. I use a 4k Apple TV for all my streaming and music. Display is a 75" Samsung Q80R QLED. My room unfortunately will not easily accommodate a projection setup. I have a Sony BDPS-5100 blu ray player. I no longer purchase hard copies of blu rays but rather purchase 4k on Apple TV for those that are worthy of owning. Worth mentioning, imo, is my Harmony Companion remote. It performs flawlessly 100% of the time with extreme user friendliness. IR so no line of sight required. ONLY downside is that the remote is not backlit, but the keys are very intuitive and fairly easy to use even in the dark for most common commands. Cables of course are simply 12g OFC. Just added a set of smart phone controlled LED backlights for my TV. Kinda cool I guess? It was cheap so figured I'd try it. Thats it. My home theater/audio/video journey is complete for the foreseeable future, other than just enjoying it.

Welcome to the Rythmik family. Nice write up and thanks for sharing.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #43121 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 06:21 PM
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Yes, in fact you are the very person I remember seeing this from! Along with Enrico's recommendation it seemed a no brainer to try it! So thanks for the tip you are unaware you gave me!!
Enjoyed reading about your journey. I was nervous you were trading pro audio midbass for Rythmik LFE - glad you found a good balance.

I've always found that a 60 Hz bloom masks upper bass and lower midrange detail. On my main system, and on my headphones, I've always tamed that down whenever there's a bump there and achieved better overall sound quality. I take it you haven't found the same?
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post #43122 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 06:31 PM
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Enjoyed reading about your journey. I was nervous you were trading pro audio midbass for Rythmik LFE - glad you found a good balance.

I've always found that a 60 Hz bloom masks upper bass and lower midrange detail. On my main system, and on my headphones, I've always tamed that down whenever there's a bump there and achieved better overall sound quality. I take it you haven't found the same?
Well, won't disagree at all with your assessment. But if you look at my measured response, I feel as though the 40-80 Hz region is still pretty well balanced after PEQ. I don't think there is a bloated response there so hopefully won't be an issue. Also, I haven't done extensive listening yet, mainly a few spirited demos on songs with strong mid bass punch.
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post #43123 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 06:56 PM
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Man do I wish my theater room was in a closet with a suspended floor. Big rooms suck!
Well according to Mark Seaton, large rooms are easier to handle but that is of course based on many placement options and ability to add enough subs to compensate for lack of room gain...

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #43124 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 07:41 PM
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Well according to Mark Seaton, large rooms are easier to handle but that is of course based on many placement options and ability to add enough subs to compensate for lack of room gain...
It's actually based on room modes being distributed differently

But yeah, you do need more power.

System 1: Samsung Plasma | Denon X4500H | Hypex Ncore NC252MP | Buchardt S400 | Polk LSiM 702 F/X | Heights TBD | Subs TBD Rythmik
System 2: Laptop | NAD T758 v3 | PSB Imagine B
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post #43125 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 08:15 PM
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I'm sad to see the F25 disappear from rythmikaudio.com. It was a better deal than the G25.

System 1: Samsung Plasma | Denon X4500H | Hypex Ncore NC252MP | Buchardt S400 | Polk LSiM 702 F/X | Heights TBD | Subs TBD Rythmik
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post #43126 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 09:08 PM
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Ok, so this post will focus entirely(I hope) on Rythmiks FV15HP.
Very well written review and one of the most honest review I see.
I have to agree with you as I believe I have the same subs , just in a smaller sealed room
Thanks and welcome to Rythmik
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post #43127 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 09:20 PM
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need assistance

I have rythmik f18 and ran rew from three different listeing positions. orange is main lp,which I am mst concerned about since I am the only one that uses it. green moved mike few inches to the right and o\purple is few inches to left mlp. Any feed back on these graphs would be greatly appreciated. Kind of a newby to sub cal thanks.
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post #43128 of 44791 Old 05-15-2020, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
As a final commentary, just wanted to share the rest of my equipment briefly that the FV15HP's are complimenting. I have Revel F36 towers with triple 6.5" woofers, Revel C25 center, and Revel W263 in wall surround speakers. They are powered by a Denon X3300H AVR, which provides room eq only below 500 Hz on my speakers via the Audyssey app, along with SubEqHT for the subs. I use DEQ always but turn the surrounds down about 4 dB after calibration as DEQ tends to make the surrounds a bit obnoxious. I measured with REW to confirm it runs them hot. I use a 4k Apple TV for all my streaming and music. Display is a 75" Samsung Q80R QLED. My room unfortunately will not easily accommodate a projection setup. I have a Sony BDPS-5100 blu ray player. I no longer purchase hard copies of blu rays but rather purchase 4k on Apple TV for those that are worthy of owning. Worth mentioning, imo, is my Harmony Companion remote. It performs flawlessly 100% of the time with extreme user friendliness. IR so no line of sight required. ONLY downside is that the remote is not backlit, but the keys are very intuitive and fairly easy to use even in the dark for most common commands. Cables of course are simply 12g OFC. Just added a set of smart phone controlled LED backlights for my TV. Kinda cool I guess? It was cheap so figured I'd try it. Thats it. My home theater/audio/video journey is complete for the foreseeable future, other than just enjoying it.
Big congrats on the new setup! I see you've been at work for a while secretly rebuilding your setup Really nice choice on the gear (love the Revels) sweet write up man and you say your not an Audiophile
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post #43129 of 44791 Old 05-16-2020, 09:59 AM
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It is just my ear pressure that is "directional" per se.
Sorry to be late to this party. I don't understand anything about room modes and what everyone else is talking about. But as a scuba diving instructor, I understand a lot about ear pressure. Have you considered a physiological explanation? Do you know if you can feel pressure equally in both ears? An easy test is to pinch (i.e. completely block) your nose and try to gently blow through it. Do you feel pressure in both ears pretty much equally? If so, you are fine.

I only bring this up as an "out of the box" explanation for what you are experiencing. Even if people are fine most of the time, something as simple as minor congestion from a seasonal allergy can block up one of their Eustachian tubes and cause what you are experiencing. Sometimes that will affect your hearing on that side as well, but not always.
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post #43130 of 44791 Old 05-16-2020, 10:24 AM
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bear123 — Your mentioning your old front and center channel Hsu speakers resonated with me. I have been using 6 Hsu HB1s and an HC1 center channel as my base 7.1 speakers since early 2009. I love them still, despite having upgraded virtually every component in my HT system since. See my sig for my current setup.

As wonderful as your Revels certainly are, they wouldn’t work for me. My home theater is my family room, so my Hsus are as large as it can accommodate.

In 2017 I contracted with a high end audio/visual dealer and installer to upgrade my system. This included four Focal overhead speakers for Atmos and a Yamaha RX-V3600 AVR. At the time, I didn’t upgrade from the circa 2008 10 inch Hsu sub I was using immediately because the contractor got the new system to sound excellent using an LFE connection with an 80 Hz crossover.

After I had been enjoying my upgraded system for a few weeks, I started researching high end subs. I seriously considered JTR but decided on Rythmic when the FV18 became available. I bought the first two Rythmik FB18s shipped and never looked back.

On the theory that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, in configuring my FV18s, Icontinued to use the LFE connections with an 80 Hz crossover, refined by using the REW configuration program and a UMIK-1 microphone. Thanks to a lot of help here and in the REW thread, I got all of my components to play nicely play with each other. The combination of immersive audio and thunderous LFE while watching movies with world class Atmos or DTS-X audio has been a joy.

You will enjoy your FB15HPs. Trust me on this.
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HT setup: Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV; Kaleidescape Strato Movie Server 6 TB and Terra Server 24 TB; Yamaha RX-A3060 AV receiver; Sonamp 2-1 2channel 100W power amp; Crestron Control System; 2 Rythmik FV18 subwoofers, 6 Hsu HB-1 Bookshelf speakers, 1 Hsu HC-1 Center speaker, 4 Focal ICW8 in-ceiling Atmos speakers; Oppo UDP-203 4K HDR BD player. TiVO Bolt 1TB DVR; TiVo Premiere Elite 2 TB DVR; Roku Premiere+; Apple TV 4K
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post #43131 of 44791 Old 05-16-2020, 10:45 AM
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my very big room is fairly easy for the mlp...but walking around the 30x50ft space I can very easily hear +/- 10plus db swings...would be a nightmare to get enough subs where room is even.

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
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Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
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post #43132 of 44791 Old 05-16-2020, 10:52 AM
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Looks like there's a 100% chance that I'm going to order a UMIK-1 and miniDSP 2x4 HD this weekend... I have a *major* dip between 20hz and 100hz. Hopefully it's a phase issue and not placement. This is a combined response. Anthem doesn't allow you to measure subs separately (unless you power one off).



I'm confused why the Level Settings in the ARC Genesis app are different than the profile once uploaded to the receiver. I'll check with the Anthem community for that. The other oddity is that if I turned the volume up on my F18s past 12 o'clock during calibration, I got an error message that the subs were too loud and I had to turn them down to continue... and yet it boosted the subwoofer by 6 or 9db.
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5.2.4 system: Anthem MRX1120 | Revel f226be L/R | c426be center (**ETA for delivery is 7/20**) | f206 surrounds | c763l (Atmos front and back) | dual Rythmik F18 subwoofers | miniDSP 2x4HD | Apple TV 4K | Panasonic UB820 | Sony XBR65x950g (will upgrade to 77" OLED) | Panamax M5400-PM | Salamander Oslo 237 AV cabinet
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post #43133 of 44791 Old 05-16-2020, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blSwagger View Post
Looks like there's a 100% chance that I'm going to order a UMIK-1 and miniDSP 2x4 HD this weekend... I have a *major* dip between 20hz and 100hz. Hopefully it's a phase issue and not placement. This is a combined response. Anthem doesn't allow you to measure subs separately (unless you power one off).



I'm confused why the Level Settings in the ARC Genesis app are different than the profile once uploaded to the receiver. I'll check with the Anthem community for that. The other oddity is that if I turned the volume up on my F18s past 12 o'clock during calibration, I got an error message that the subs were too loud and I had to turn them down to continue... and yet it boosted the subwoofer by 6 or 9db.

I didnt mess with my audyssey until after I had a rew/umik mic. I had horrible results before I got competent with rew. I had to move my subs to a few different spots before I was satisfied. my dumbass tried starting with 4 different subs(mistake)...I would start with 1 if could do over. in the end my setup allows for audyysey to be turned on or off and very, very similar results...which leds me to believe I have it setup right/good enough.
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Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300 LG oled c9 77
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS, Audioengine A2+
Subs: Rythmik FV25HP, Rythmik FV15HP, Velodyne HGS 12, Velodyne VA1512
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post #43134 of 44791 Old 05-16-2020, 01:18 PM
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About to finish up my first movie on the FV15's. Mad Max Fury Road. Perhaps the most over the top ridiculously obnoxious action packed non stop bass fest of all time. The intentionally obnoxiously over the top everything in this movie makes it a fun ride. Non stop concussive, thunderous bass to accompany the action.

Prior to the movie, while measuring and dialing things in over the past few days, the FV15's apparently didn't like the way the dishes were arranged in the china cabinet in the next room. So they rearranged everything. My wife didn't like it though. But she does like the subs.
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post #43135 of 44791 Old 05-16-2020, 01:46 PM
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the FV15's apparently didn't like the way the dishes were arranged in the china cabinet in the next room. So they rearranged everything. My wife didn't like it though. But she does like the subs.
Another success
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post #43136 of 44791 Old 05-16-2020, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by blSwagger View Post
Looks like there's a 100% chance that I'm going to order a UMIK-1 and miniDSP 2x4 HD this weekend... I have a *major* dip between 20hz and 100hz. Hopefully it's a phase issue and not placement. This is a combined response. Anthem doesn't allow you to measure subs separately (unless you power one off).



I'm confused why the Level Settings in the ARC Genesis app are different than the profile once uploaded to the receiver. I'll check with the Anthem community for that. The other oddity is that if I turned the volume up on my F18s past 12 o'clock during calibration, I got an error message that the subs were too loud and I had to turn them down to continue... and yet it boosted the subwoofer by 6 or 9db.

Which version of Genesis are you running? I recommend either the current beta or 9006. Most of the others give screwy boosts (usually too high).



Speaker boosts are kind of high. Did you use Quick Measure to set the volume on the sub so Genesis sees 75db (72 if running duals) at your MLP? If not, I'd do that and then rerun Genesis.


The ARC report and what you see in the Anthem are different. In the Anthem, it's the sub boost + room gain.

LG OLED65E6P, Anthem MRX720, Rogue Atlas Magnum II, UPA7, Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers with RAAL, Luna Duo center, Sierra 2 surrounds, and HTM200SE front & rear heights, Rythmik E15HPx2, miniDSP, VPI Classic 1+ (VTA Tower, 3D arm), VAS NOVA and Soundsmith Paua cartridges, Manley Chinook, Oppo 103D, Oppo 203. Audio Sensibility and Blue Jeans cabling, Symposium & Isoacoustics isolation products
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post #43137 of 44791 Old 05-16-2020, 02:32 PM
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I'm thinking about adding an additional sub to my system (birthday present to me :-) )



I currently have an E15. Front of the room, to left of entertainment center & driver facing outwards.



Listening room is 16x12x11 (ceiling is tiered). Open behind to a foyer (about 6' wide) and a dining room beyond that (mirror image of listening room). Off to the left is open (about 90 inch opening) to the family room, which is about 24x20x10.


I am mainly music with the occasional movie.


So, I am considering the following options:
a) 2nd E15 (would most likely place in front of room to right of entertainment center. Driver may need to face side wall due to space if I can't pull the front speaker far enough into the room. (guess I could if I wanted to also rearrange the furniture a bit).

b) 2 x F8 (and either sell the E15 or keep it as a 3rd (likely to relocate behind chairs))
c) 2 x L22 (and same as b with the E15)


Thought about an F18 (along with my E15), but just too big/heavy I think.



Opinions?

LG OLED65E6P, Anthem MRX720, Rogue Atlas Magnum II, UPA7, Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers with RAAL, Luna Duo center, Sierra 2 surrounds, and HTM200SE front & rear heights, Rythmik E15HPx2, miniDSP, VPI Classic 1+ (VTA Tower, 3D arm), VAS NOVA and Soundsmith Paua cartridges, Manley Chinook, Oppo 103D, Oppo 203. Audio Sensibility and Blue Jeans cabling, Symposium & Isoacoustics isolation products
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post #43138 of 44791 Old 05-16-2020, 03:26 PM
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OK. I finally have REW, UMIK, X3500H and my subs positioned. The x3500h is up and running with XT32 EQ on right now. Where is the best place to start for tweaking the subs? I have some nulls I think will go away with better sub alignment.

Front: Polk S55
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Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
AVR: Denon AVR-X3500H
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post #43139 of 44791 Old 05-16-2020, 03:43 PM
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Looks like there's a 100% chance that I'm going to order a UMIK-1 and miniDSP 2x4 HD this weekend... I have a *major* dip between 20hz and 100hz. Hopefully it's a phase issue and not placement.
Two sides of the same coin. Definitely play with placement and phase/delay combinations until you get it to an ideal state.

If a decent response obtained through placement and phase/delay settings is presented to the AVR, room correction should be able to take it from there.

System 1: Samsung Plasma | Denon X4500H | Hypex Ncore NC252MP | Buchardt S400 | Polk LSiM 702 F/X | Heights TBD | Subs TBD Rythmik
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post #43140 of 44791 Old 05-16-2020, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
OK. I finally have REW, UMIK, X3500H and my subs positioned. The x3500h is up and running with XT32 EQ on right now. Where is the best place to start for tweaking the subs? I have some nulls I think will go away with better sub alignment.
Did you position the subs before or after you got the UMIK? Might want to check again while measuring. What we think is the best place isn't always right.

System 1: Samsung Plasma | Denon X4500H | Hypex Ncore NC252MP | Buchardt S400 | Polk LSiM 702 F/X | Heights TBD | Subs TBD Rythmik
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