Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 1454 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #43591 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by madrac View Post
Amazon usually has a wide selection of BJC cables in stock. With Prime, 2 day delivery. Pricing is also very good.
Hi,

While Amazon do sell some, the OP want a 40fts length that I did not see been available.
Another advantage of ordering directly from BJC, you do have few options for the cable and connecter.
And can order the exact length you need, for not having to deal an extra length that is not needed


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post #43592 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BhootZ View Post
I’m trying (unsuccessfully) to convince the missus to let me convert the yoga blocks as woofer feet when flipped upside down for last 30 mins. Sadly I lack a carpet hence the isolation issues are real. Also wouldn’t want to scratch or nick the beauty.

About some of these;
https://www.flexifelt.com/p-425-5015...elt-disks.aspx


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post #43593 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
Does coupling depend on floor type at all? Does that work better with one floor type over another or is it a universal type effect tied merely to the distance between sub and floor?
From my experience, yes. When I had my subs/speakers on a hard floor, that was suspended. Decoupling them, did improve the sound.
On the other hand, in my present room. With heavy carpet over a concrete floor, there are no difference to be heard.

While I would think, it should be the same. For a suspended floor with a good thick carpet. I can either confirm or deny, since I never had the experience with this scenario.


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post #43594 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 05:14 PM
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So I'll ask the dumb question I have never seen addressed on this thread...we all know the FV18 can be used on its side. Could it be used upside down? Triple-cannon action out the top?
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Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post
If you put the triple-cannon at the top, it reduces the boundary enhancement effect. For subwoofer with boomy bass, that is THE way to reduce the boominess. But it certaily reduces the energy coupling to the floor and energy reflection. Place the unit side-way can gain the max boundary enhancement.
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
So, if using the FV18 on its side, would it be most beneficial to plug the port furthest from the floor rather than the middle port?
This is an interesting discussion. I did not consider the SBIR of the ports as well, which makes sense they would have that, but would be tuned to a specific frequency range, unlike the driver. I guess the downside could be the wavelength that correlates to 1/2 the port distance to the floor could be cancelled - is that a concern? It may not be because the distance is still relatively short and thus would correspond to much higher frequencies, above the low port tuning of these subs. Is tactile response reduced? Possibly...

In most cases it's best to get the driver close to the floor and/or walls for the smoothest response. Maybe if laying on its side and operating with a port plugged, experimenting with plugging the bottom or top port produces a different effect.

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post #43595 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
From my experience, yes. When I had my subs/speakers on a hard floor, that was suspended. Decoupling them, did improve the sound.
On the other hand, in my present room. With heavy carpet over a concrete floor, there are no difference to be heard.

While I would think, it should be the same. For a suspended floor with a good thick carpet. I can either confirm or deny, since I never had the experience with this one.
Just for clarity I think we're talking about two different kinds of coupling. You're thinking of physical coupling of the unit to the surface, whereas we're talking about coupling of low bass frequencies. Frequencies that combine in phase because their wavelengths are so long that multiple sources effectively act as one. Conversely, if the distances are just right, certain frequencies will destructively cancel each other if they slam together out of phase.

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post #43596 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
So, if using the FV18 on its side, would it be most beneficial to plug the port furthest from the floor rather than the middle port?

Something for you to look forward to







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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
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post #43597 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 06:01 PM
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Hi guys. I just ordered a rythmik audio L12 subwoofer so theres that. But i have a question im getting magnepan lrs panels and want to put fmods (rca style high pass crossover plugs) (70 hz) in to filter the panels but i have to hook up the sub with high level inputs on my 2 channel home stereo. Will this cut frequencies to my subwoofer at all?
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post #43598 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Sweet response, man. I bet that sounds amazing. I know what it's like because I managed to get flat with my F12s (5 dB increments):

Click image for larger version

Name:	100-300hz XT32.png
Views:	68
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ID:	2733374

Hopefully my speakers benefit in the 100-300 Hz range when my bass traps get here. Small rooms make a mess of that range.

System 1: Samsung Plasma | Denon X4500H | Hypex Ncore NC252MP | Buchardt S400 | Polk LSiM 702 F/X | Heights TBD | Subs TBD Rythmik
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post #43599 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 06:56 PM
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Hey all! I’m a current owner of a PSA V3600I and am eyeing the Rythmik FV25HP. I’m just curious if there are any former PSA owners that crossed over to Rythmik that could share their experience. Based on the data, it appears the FV25HP would match the output of my PSA, but give me better low end performance.

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post #43600 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
Hey all! I’m a current owner of a PSA V3600I and am eyeing the Rythmik FV25HP. I’m just curious if there are any former PSA owners that crossed over to Rythmik that could share their experience. Based on the data, it appears the FV25HP would match the output of my PSA, but give me better low end performance.
You are in Houston, right? If yes, you can demo my FV25HP. Pretty sure you can also demo @imureh pair of FV18s paper cone. That would give an idea of what you can expect in your room.
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Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik G22 (x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
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post #43601 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
I’m just curious if there are any former PSA owners that crossed over to Rythmik that could share their experience.
I auditioned the V1512 for maybe six weeks. It didn't perform in my room how I had hoped. I previously had an eD A5-350 which had a 500 watt amp and 15" driver and port tune at 20Hz and it honestly outperformed the V1512. I didn't feel I gained much output. It did sound fantastic. But dropped hard below 20Hz.

I didn't think the V1812 was going to give me what I wanted and I frankly didn't like the slot port. I couldn't or wouldn't afford to go up to PSA's bigger subs. I would probably just go to JTR anyway at that point. This was before the new TV18 and TV15 models were announced.

So I ended up where I should have started to begin with, Rythmik FV18. It's a beast. It's awesome. I couldn't be happier with the overall output, clarity, and sound for HT and music. I have a link in my signature with a more thorough impressions thread.

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post #43602 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 08:32 PM
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I'm guessing that the FVX12 and F12 use a different driver?
That is correct. FVX12 uses our DS1204 driver.
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post #43603 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Sweet response, man. I bet that sounds amazing. I know what it's like because I managed to get flat with my F12s (5 dB increments):

Attachment 2733374

Hopefully my speakers benefit in the 100-300 Hz range when my bass traps get here. Small rooms make a mess of that range.
Yeah it does. My first pic is with 5db increments. For some reason REW flips to 10db when I snap a pic

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #43604 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
Hey all! I’m a current owner of a PSA V3600I and am eyeing the Rythmik FV25HP. I’m just curious if there are any former PSA owners that crossed over to Rythmik that could share their experience. Based on the data, it appears the FV25HP would match the output of my PSA, but give me better low end performance.
You think correct. The ULF will not even be close

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #43605 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
This is an interesting discussion. I did not consider the SBIR of the ports as well, which makes sense they would have that, but would be tuned to a specific frequency range, unlike the driver. I guess the downside could be the wavelength that correlates to 1/2 the port distance to the floor could be cancelled - is that a concern? It may not be because the distance is still relatively short and thus would correspond to much higher frequencies, above the low port tuning of these subs. Is tactile response reduced? Possibly...



In most cases it's best to get the driver close to the floor and/or walls for the smoothest response. Maybe if laying on its side and operating with a port plugged, experimenting with plugging the bottom or top port produces a different effect.
On the contrary, when subs are tested it happens in an open area. With the walls the Bass Response does increase but the bass may become boomy and muddy. While it's desirable to have room modes helping a low level sub (something with a - 3db at 30Hz) i dont really see anyone here needing them. Fact of the matter is, my subs produce an almost 20db gain peaking at about 25hz and I hated it. Filtered most of the things through minidsp and now I'm happier.

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post #43606 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 09:38 PM
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Words I thought I'd never, ever hear on AVS from anyone, ever (other than myself! ). Good for you. Patience is a virtue.
Well, just noticed CMX-6 came back in stock. I don't need the extra plugs, but for $40 bucks more, happy to give up a little virtue.
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post #43607 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 09:46 PM
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Well, just noticed CMX-6 came back in stock. I don't need the extra plugs, but for $40 bucks more, happy to give up a little virtue.
The CMX-6 doesn’t have DC Offset eliminator filter.
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Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik G22 (x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
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post #43608 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BhootZ View Post
On the contrary, when subs are tested it happens in an open area. With the walls the Bass Response does increase but the bass may become boomy and muddy. While it's desirable to have room modes helping a low level sub (something with a - 3db at 30Hz) i dont really see anyone here needing them. Fact of the matter is, my subs produce an almost 20db gain peaking at about 25hz and I hated it. Filtered most of the things through minidsp and now I'm happier.
The key is getting them into the right location along the wall. Center is best to avoid peaks. The response I posted above was with center of wall placement, front and back.

If you put a sub any distance from a wall in a home interior, you will get SBIR at lower frequencies. Putting it against the wall pushes the cancellation frequencies up so high they are out of band.

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Last edited by Soulburner; 05-27-2020 at 10:32 PM.
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post #43609 of 44709 Old 05-27-2020, 10:13 PM
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Professional drivers vs non-professional drivers

I got a few questions from chucks0, maybe bear123 and others will be interested and therefore I think it is best I post here. I will post them in a mini series.

When I look at the drivers that Josh has tested on his databass site, I notice a trend: there is a competition of force-factor (which is BL^2/Re). I want to warn that those drivers are not suitable for low tune subwoofers. Some 15 years ago Steve C. has advocated LLT (large Low Tune) ported subs. His conclusion at that time is the drivers suitable for such alignment need to have higher Qts. If the Q value is too low, it actually constricts the SPL output at low frequencies bands. In fact, it can be explained in mathematics in terms of force factor, or specially BL value. Steve C. commented the impact is via Qts value, but in fact it is via BL value. LLT need a driver with moderate BL value, lower output from such driver in a ported subwoofers can be made up in enclosure size and large enclosures accommodate larger ports, so there is no catch. That is the physical part of the vented sub design. Now servo comes into picture. Servo can make the BL value of the drivers to "appear" (in what we call equivalent circuit) to be a much higher BL value driver. So why do we want that? Because high BL value actually sound "faster" by having better cone control (if the drivers do not suffer from other problem such as low Vas). In short, servo enable a sound quality that matches the high BL drivers, but without the shortcoming of max SPL loss from high BL value drivers. Of course the other advantage of servo is it has the most consistent frequency response across the bass frequency band. Josh publish the "compression" plots. He uses 90db as baseline and plot the variation of frequency response at each 5db increment. Then he also does this "repeat" to show after the most intense playback (in his test), if the first 90db frequency plot can be replicated in his 2nd sweep. If not, that means the sub has one form of memory effect (there are others), meaning the frequency response at current moment depends on what one has played some few seconds ago. That is not good, isn't it? In each one of the subs we submitted for test, the compression is zero except in frequency bands where amp running out of juice or at around port tuning where port compression can play a factor. Memory effect is one issue plaguing transducer. So thermal is one form of memory effect. Another memory effect is spider/surround hysteresis. It is there. How do we demonstrate that? Use a marker on the voice coil. Then one can observe the following: first pull the cone up and then release, then observe the rest position using the marker; second, push the cone down and then release. One will notice the resting positions in these two cases are different. It is not huge, in the range of 0.5-1 mm. But such hysteresis manifests itself at say midbass where it does not take large cone excursion to get high SPL, it will become very audible, in the form of muddy bass sound. Again servo can help reduce the effect of such hysteresis by reducing the distortion/memory effect caused by this hysteresis. A low Vas driver has a stiffer spider/surround which in turn requires a larger correction force.

[EDIT] The discussion of the above Qts or Q in terms of how they impact low end output is actually via the BL value. I have corrected accordingly.

Last edited by Rythmik; 05-28-2020 at 10:04 AM.
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post #43610 of 44709 Old 05-28-2020, 05:28 AM
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You are in Houston, right? If yes, you can demo my FV25HP. Pretty sure you can also demo @imureh pair of FV18s paper cone. That would give an idea of what you can expect in your room.
Yep, I’m 30 miles east of downtown. I’m pretty sure the F25HP is the way to go. I’ve liked my PSA and was pretty set on replacing it with the V3612, which also has 2) 18” drivers like my V3600I, but I’m not sure if it will have the extension In looking for.

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post #43611 of 44709 Old 05-28-2020, 05:37 AM
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Yep, I’m 30 miles east of downtown. I’m pretty sure the F25HP is the way to go. I’ve liked my PSA and was pretty set on replacing it with the V3612, which also has 2) 18” drivers like my V3600I, but I’m not sure if it will have the extension In looking for.
Looks like we are in opposite sides of Greater Houston. I'm 30 miles west of downtown (Katy). Same as @imureh but I guess we can schedule a demo/visit when this COVID-19 madness gets to a safer point for human interaction
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Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik G22 (x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | Sony 77A9G OLED |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
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post #43612 of 44709 Old 05-28-2020, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
The CMX-6 doesn’t have DC Offset eliminator filter.
Yep... go with the CMX-2 and just use a high quality PDU along with it if you need more outlets. You can also make your own PDU that will likely be better than most anything you can buy. Pangea Audio has some nice quality PDU's but no on/off switch. I made my own because I wanted to be able to switch everything off.

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post #43613 of 44709 Old 05-28-2020, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Looks like we are in opposite sides of Greater Houston. I'm 30 miles west of downtown (Katy). Same as @imureh but I guess we can schedule a demo/visit when this COVID-19 madness gets to a safer point for human interaction

I'm 20 miles north (Spring area) - single E15. Happy to demo in the future, as well.
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post #43614 of 44709 Old 05-28-2020, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
The CMX-6 doesn’t have DC Offset eliminator filter.
Oh crap! Thanks for pointing that out. Saw "AC Line Filter" and jumped on it. See what happens when you give up on virtue.
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post #43615 of 44709 Old 05-28-2020, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Looks like we are in opposite sides of Greater Houston. I'm 30 miles west of downtown (Katy). Same as @imureh but I guess we can schedule a demo/visit when this COVID-19 madness gets to a safer point for human interaction

So a three hour drive before the madness?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #43616 of 44709 Old 05-28-2020, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Hi,

While Amazon do sell some, the OP want a 40fts length that I did not see been available.
Another advantage of ordering directly from BJC, you do have few options for the cable and connecter.
And can order the exact length you need, for not having to deal an extra length that is not needed


Darth

My F18s were delivered on Wednesday, May 13th. I ordered my BJC RCA cables on Friday the 8th and they were delivered on the 12th. I paid $5 for two-day shipping.


I might order a longer power cord in case I need to pull the right sub out without unplugging it (it is barely long enough with the sub in place). Would an inexpensive 8' cord from Monoprice be okay?
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post #43617 of 44709 Old 05-28-2020, 11:07 AM
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I now have a FV15HP on the way. Thanks to Enrico, chucks0, bear, Imureh, and others who answered my questions about Rythmik subs. I am also happy to support a company run by a fellow Ph.D. in EE.

I am still in the process of selling my existing 15" subwoofer, so I will have a perfect opportunity for a sighted A/B comparison. I already have an idea of what I expect the outcome to be, but I will go in with an open mind as much as possible. I really hope the FV15HP will provide the extension that I am currently missing in essentially the same footprint as my existing sub.
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post #43618 of 44709 Old 05-28-2020, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by blSwagger View Post
My F18s were delivered on Wednesday, May 13th. I ordered my BJC RCA cables on Friday the 8th and they were delivered on the 12th. I paid $5 for two-day shipping.


I might order a longer power cord in case I need to pull the right sub out without unplugging it (it is barely long enough with the sub in place). Would an inexpensive 8' cord from Monoprice be okay?

How long is the power cord? I am hoping at least 6'.
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post #43619 of 44709 Old 05-28-2020, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
I now have a FV15HP on the way. Thanks to Enrico, chucks0, bear, Imureh, and others who answered my questions about Rythmik subs. I am also happy to support a company run by a fellow Ph.D. in EE.

I am still in the process of selling my existing 15" subwoofer, so I will have a perfect opportunity for a sighted A/B comparison. I already have an idea of what I expect the outcome to be, but I will go in with an open mind as much as possible. I really hope the FV15HP will provide the extension that I am currently missing in essentially the same footprint as my existing sub.
I am certain it will - there are none better on the market anywhere near the size and price point.
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post #43620 of 44709 Old 05-28-2020, 12:07 PM
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How long is the power cord? I am hoping at least 6'.

It came with a 6' cord.
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