Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 1456 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #43651 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
How much of a critical music listener are you?
Thanks for your question. Musical fidelity is always my FIRST consideration when choosing audio equipment, and my primary music interests are Classical/orchestral and pipe organ on CD recordings, often played at fairly high volume. Real-life pedal notes on a pipe organ can be as deep as 16Hz, though I wonder if you could even find a CD recording of that...! It's true that I'd be using the same subwoofer for music and movies both, but I feel that if a sub reproduces music accurately, it will be totally competent (for my purposes, at least) when I'm watching a movie. I'm not one of those people who needs seismic effects from a sub; detail, clarity, precision, and low-distortion would be paramount.

Generally speaking, which do you think would be better for me, a Rythmik sub with a paper or aluminum cone?

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post #43652 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 05:21 PM
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^^ I think Aluminum is better for you. Brian and Enrico are the best to answer your question.
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post #43653 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by hhowards View Post
Thanks for your question. Musical fidelity is always my FIRST consideration when choosing audio equipment, and my primary music interests are Classical/orchestral and pipe organ on CD recordings, often played at fairly high volume. Real-life pedal notes on a pipe organ can be as deep as 16Hz, though I wonder if you could even find a CD recording of that...! It's true that I'd be using the same subwoofer for music and movies both, but I feel that if a sub reproduces music accurately, it will be totally competent (for my purposes, at least) when I'm watching a movie. I'm not one of those people who needs seismic effects from a sub; detail, clarity, precision, and low-distortion would be paramount.

Generally speaking, which do you think would be better for me, a Rythmik sub with a paper or aluminum cone?

if the paper cone sounds more distorted than the metal cone on low damping....I would say metal. but since I havent heard paper cone....rythmik amps on big subs are very tweakable. I use high damping as it measures better in my setup.

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post #43654 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by spyboy View Post
The paper cone brings with it a slight increase in distortion. I haven't read about anyone complaining about the increased distortion with music. Remember all the Rythmik subs use the servo to reduce distortion. The Rythmik FV18 paper cone continues to be sold-out, almost as soon as Rythmik gets them in (stock).

I was assuming the 3 extra dB may not be necessary for music listening so minimum distortion would be the top priority, but if the OP listens at extremely high volumes then the paper cone's additional output would be advantageous. Brian and Enrico have probably A/B tested both versions extensively and can provide the most educated answer.
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post #43655 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hhowards View Post
Thanks for your question. Musical fidelity is always my FIRST consideration when choosing audio equipment, and my primary music interests are Classical/orchestral and pipe organ on CD recordings, often played at fairly high volume. Real-life pedal notes on a pipe organ can be as deep as 16Hz, though I wonder if you could even find a CD recording of that...! It's true that I'd be using the same subwoofer for music and movies both, but I feel that if a sub reproduces music accurately, it will be totally competent (for my purposes, at least) when I'm watching a movie. I'm not one of those people who needs seismic effects from a sub; detail, clarity, precision, and low-distortion would be paramount.

Generally speaking, which do you think would be better for me, a Rythmik sub with a paper or aluminum cone?
I would go with aluminum and even sealed like G25HP or F18

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post #43656 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
Don’t pick on my Chane A2.4. Don’t let their size fool you.
The A2.4 isn't a very "tall" speaker when laid horizontally, but it is extremely deep in any orientation. And yet they look very, very thin on top of those giant subs! You're now running the system I'd like to have some day. Congrats and enjoy.
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post #43657 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Darian97 View Post
Apologies if this has been discussed. I don't keep up with the forums like I use to. Will the FV28 come to fruition anytime soon?
Postponed according to this post.

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post #43658 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I would go with aluminum and even sealed like G25HP or F18
Thanks to everyone for your responses to my question concerning paper vs aluminum cone subs for listening to Classical music -- it appears that the general consensus is aluminum. I realize that the differences may be so slight as to be nearly inaudible (and though I listen to music at reasonably robust volume levels, I'm not playing it so loud as to threaten the health of my ears, so subwoofer distortion may not be a real factor under these circumstances). Ultimately it may be my budget that determines the type of subwoofer I'm able to buy, and since Rythmik's paper cone subs are a bit more affordable, my frugality might influence my decision-making. I have often considered owning a pair of Rythmik L22s because my music room isn't huge, and space is at a premium in my home. The L22 model seems to offer great bang-for-the-buck value with a very attractive smaller footprint.

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post #43659 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
It was scheduled for Friday but got in a day early. Texas to South Carolina in 2 days.
Right now, shipping at least at regular UPS(yours is freight, don't know how they've been affected) is really a crap shoot.My hub, that just a few years ago basically operated from 5pm to 9am every day not counting the actual deliveries, is running 24 hours some days. A part time "twilight" shift can start as early as 11 am and run to 10. An 11 hour "part time" shift. The "Sunrise" shift, the last shift before delivery starts is running until 11 am some days. It's a mess. We are running "peak" (holiday) numbers every day. When peak starts up again, I don't see how our hub will be able to handle it.
But, interestingly enough, what it means is sometimes things happen faster than it should because of all the extra effort. I've noticed that at Amazon, too.

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post #43660 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 08:04 PM
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Greetings Rythmik family!!
I'm a LONG time lurker of this forum & I think I have finally saved enough to make a post & get everyone's opinions.
First, the recommendation will be for 75% TV/Movies 25% music. I listen to a wide range of rock music when it is on, it can be anywhere from The Eagles to Slipknot. I have always loved the feeling of the chest thump you get from a bass drum when @ live shows. When we took my kid to his first rock concert(Metallica @ AT&T park the night before the Super Bowl), we both agreed that we want THAT feeling!! So, that will give you an idea of what I'm after in the music side. On the movie side we watch all kinds of movies, but obviously I'm shopping for the action movies when asking your recommendations.
I'm just finishing up a remodel & the wife wanted an open concept area, so I had to take out a few walls to keep her happy! As you can see by the attached drawing, I have ALOT of space to fill when anything is playing in the living room. The living room is 'mostly' my room to do as I please, but I won't get away w/ 4 f25's stacked on each side of the TV. After all the reading of this forum I was leaning toward 2 FV18. I thought I wanted the paper cone version, but wanted the flat black option, so it'll probably be aluminum if I go that route. I have about 5k max to play with & still need to get a 2x4HD as well.

Please look @ the drawing which is 'close' to all the exact measurements. The ceiling in the living room is 8.5 ft & the rest of the house is 8 ft. ceilings.
I have also attached a couple photos of the areas.

Thanks for any help!!
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post #43661 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hhowards View Post
Thanks to everyone for your responses to my question concerning paper vs aluminum cone subs for listening to Classical music -- it appears that the general consensus is aluminum. I realize that the differences may be so slight as to be nearly inaudible (and though I listen to music at reasonably robust volume levels, I'm not playing it so loud as to threaten the health of my ears, so subwoofer distortion may not be a real factor under these circumstances). Ultimately it may be my budget that determines the type of subwoofer I'm able to buy, and since Rythmik's paper cone subs are a bit more affordable, my frugality might influence my decision-making. I have often considered owning a pair of Rythmik L22s because my music room isn't huge, and space is at a premium in my home. The L22 model seems to offer great bang-for-the-buck value with a very attractive smaller footprint.
The value of the L22 has been somewhat lost in all the attention paid to the FV18, but I remember there being a lot of satisfied L22 owners back a few years ago. I get the impression it is the value/performance leader, at least in its price range.
Unfortunately, everyone forgot that Rythmik has TWO paper cones, not just the one for the FV18, which is what people are talking about. Not sure what "real" differences are there, but like I said, previous posts here in the past have always been positive.
I would think the L22 is a very safe bet for the money. Of course, it would be even better to get an FV15 or FVX15, but that's significantly more money
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post #43662 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
Would the FV25HP be able to match the decibel output of my V3600I at 20+ hz?
As Imureh mentioned, most of psa subs is not 3rd party tested. PSA has/had average db numbers on their website which is quite useless to be able to compare. Here is the fv25 numbers on databass. Are these numbers enough for you? Best is to try one in your own home. Being local makes it easy to return if it doesn’t work.

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post #43663 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 09:41 PM
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As Imureh mentioned, most of psa subs is not 3rd party tested. PSA has/had average db numbers on their website which is quite useless to be able to compare. Here is the fv25 numbers on databass. Are these numbers enough for you? Best is to try one in your own home. Being local makes it easy to return if it doesn’t work.

Worth mention that the FV25HP tested by Data-Bass was with the old 3.5" port caps. The new FV25HP has the same 4" port caps as the FV18 and FV15HP so the chances of port noise below 16Hz are now even less.
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post #43664 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 09:47 PM
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^^ We could not get your fv25 to chuff at Todd’s place and we were at or above reference level. Your fv25 is with the original 3.5” port openings right?
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post #43665 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
^^ We could not get your fv25 to chuff at Todd’s place and we were at or above reference level. Your fv25 is with the original 3.5” port openings right?
That is correct. Mine has 3.5” port caps.

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post #43666 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I would go with aluminum and even sealed like G25HP or F18
Or ported EQ'd to act like sealed, if that's the sound your after.

Now, you could definitely go for sealed if the space savings would open up better placement options. That is a real advantage that shouldn't be underestimated.

Also, it needs to be mentioned that the +3 dB from the paper cone only applies to the FV18. The paper cone on the L-series subs is different and does not have that advantage. There, the difference is cost savings at the expense of some low-end extension.

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post #43667 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 09:58 PM
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If one decides they need more bass than the fv25hp in a normal room of a house, you might possibly start destroying your home.
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post #43668 of 44586 Old 05-28-2020, 10:01 PM
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If one decides they need more bass than the fv25hp in a normal room of a house, you might possibly start destroying your home.
Or get 2 of them and destroy your neighbors homes....ask me how I know!


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post #43669 of 44586 Old 05-29-2020, 01:49 AM
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If one decides they need more bass than the fv25hp in a normal room of a house, you might possibly start destroying your home.
eh, mine is still standing and i definitely pushed them to their limits. if rythmik had offered the fv28 back when i bought these i would have went that route instead (was sad to see the design was scrapped recently). while i love my captivator the fv25 trio was definitely good fun!



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post #43670 of 44586 Old 05-29-2020, 01:52 AM
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eh, mine is still standing and i definitely pushed them to their limits. if rythmik had offered the fv28 back when i bought these i would have went that route instead (was sad to see the design was scrapped recently). while i love my captivator the fv25 trio was definitely good fun!



The lamps, the speakers or the acoustic panels never fell off? My 3000 cuft at resonance frequencies make everything shake like nothing I've seen before.
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post #43671 of 44586 Old 05-29-2020, 01:57 AM
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The lamps, the speakers or the acoustic panels never fell off? My 3000 cuft at resonance frequencies make everything shake like nothing I've seen before.

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the trio actually made a huge mess of my house when let of their leash, especially upstairs. now that i have a riser in the back (with the sub tucked under it), there is substantially less energy transferred out of the room. that said, i lost many light fixtures, dinner plates, bulbs & other intangibles to rythmik subs over the years. it was both comical & annoying
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post #43672 of 44586 Old 05-29-2020, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by hhowards View Post
Thanks to everyone for your responses to my question concerning paper vs aluminum cone subs for listening to Classical music -- it appears that the general consensus is aluminum. I realize that the differences may be so slight as to be nearly inaudible (and though I listen to music at reasonably robust volume levels, I'm not playing it so loud as to threaten the health of my ears, so subwoofer distortion may not be a real factor under these circumstances). Ultimately it may be my budget that determines the type of subwoofer I'm able to buy, and since Rythmik's paper cone subs are a bit more affordable, my frugality might influence my decision-making. I have often considered owning a pair of Rythmik L22s because my music room isn't huge, and space is at a premium in my home. The L22 model seems to offer great bang-for-the-buck value with a very attractive smaller footprint.

Or start with one Al-cone sub and add another later, based on budget? Perhaps a pair of F12 or E15 if footprint/space at a premium?

That said, I do also like the footprint of the L22 (or F8), as well. I'm actually considering dual L22 or F8 to replace (or supplement) current E15. Other option is to add a 2nd E15, but space/placement is a bit more challenging. For the former, thinking I'd use the smaller subs only for music and add the E15 for movies (would probably place the E15 near/behind seats).

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post #43673 of 44586 Old 05-29-2020, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rexrode78 View Post
After all the reading of this forum I was leaning toward 2 FV18. I thought I wanted the paper cone version, but wanted the flat black option, so it'll probably be aluminum if I go that route. I have about 5k max to play with & still need to get a 2x4HD as well.
Hi, I sent you a PM too. But I think 1 or 2 FV18 will be killer in that room. I have 1 (hoping for a second some day) in a similar type room and it's amazing.

I would suggest you mock up the measurements with a cardboard box and put it in the room to get a sense of the size. I really only see one location for the sub(s), and that's on its side under the TV. So two will have to go together on their sides under the TV with the center channel on top - measure to make sure you have the room. Nothing wrong with that, but just be prepared for it. Unless I'm missing something with a location I don't see.

Good luck!

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post #43674 of 44586 Old 05-29-2020, 05:44 AM
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Thanks for the reply!
I have measured & I can fit 1 on each side (vertical) of the center channel if needed. However, if needed I can remove the floor to ceiling shelves I have in the corners... The 'boss' would want me to put a plan in place for something to replace them so she has an area for pictures & other stuff. I had already planned one day to move all the electronics (other than blu ray player)out to the garage & build a ventilated cabinet for everything, so that is a possibility too.

Please keep opinions coming...
Might want to order this weekend before prices go up.

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post #43675 of 44586 Old 05-29-2020, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Super nice speaker stands . Look great man. Now get to work and tell us how they sound. I think you owe us a ‘part 3’
I will definitely be posting a part 3 write up with more detailed measurements. I really need the rain and thunderstorms to stop so that I can get that done. It has rained 12 days straight.
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post #43676 of 44586 Old 05-29-2020, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexrode78 View Post

Might want to order this weekend before prices go up.

If you know, when & how much for a price increase?


TIA

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post #43677 of 44586 Old 05-29-2020, 06:40 AM
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Hey all! I’m a current owner of a PSA V3600I and am eyeing the Rythmik FV25HP. I’m just curious if there are any former PSA owners that crossed over to Rythmik that could share their experience. Based on the data, it appears the FV25HP would match the output of my PSA, but give me better low end performance.
As others have mentioned, the V3600i doesn't have detailed measurement data available. The V3600i used the older drivers which had lower xmax and higher midbass sensitivity. All that is available are the CEA-2010 averages posted by PSA:

20-31.5 Hz: 125.4dB 1M (116.4db 2M)
40-63Hz: 134.3dB 1M (125.3db 2M)

The FV25HP was tested by data-bass and if you look at the averages for these same ranges, the V3600i has about a 3db advantage in the mid bass which is to be expected with the larger drivers. In the 20-31.5 Hz range, they were pretty close. Keep in mind that these are averages and that the FV25HP is going to have a noticeable advantage at 20hz. The distortion for the FV25HP remains VERY low even at maximum output.

20-31.5 Hz: 116.3db 2M
40-63 Hz: 122.8db 2M

The V3600i really doesn't have much usable output below 18hz while the FV25HP extends down to 10hz so the FV25HP is going to have a significant advantage in the ULF region. So, you give up about 3db of mid bass and gain a significant amount of output 20hz and below with the addition of lower distortion, servo, and multi-tune capabilities.

If it were me, I would be looking at dual FV18 paper cone instead. You would have the same mid bass output you have now and significantly more low end output.
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post #43678 of 44586 Old 05-29-2020, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
I will definitely be posting a part 3 write up with more detailed measurements. I really need the rain and thunderstorms to stop so that I can get that done. It has rained 12 days straight.
Didn't know you were planning to drag the subs outdoor to measure, jk I know what you meant
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post #43679 of 44586 Old 05-29-2020, 08:27 AM
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If you know, when & how much for a price increase?


TIA
It's on the site page for the sub. Didn't check them all, but +$75 for the FV18 starting June 1.
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post #43680 of 44586 Old 05-29-2020, 08:48 AM
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I'm going to hook up my miniDSP 2x4 HD this weekend. A big THANK YOU to @enricoclaudio for the easy to follow, step by step directions on how to set it up on a Mac!


Any other tips?
  • I should turn off ARC Genesis during REW calibration?
  • I know to turn the rumble filter off during calibration.
  • I've only listened to my F18s using the recommended home theater settings of 14hz/low damping. Should I experiment with 12hz/high damping BEFORE calibrating or does that not matter? Or is it better to determine which settings yield the best sweeps during the REW calibration?
  • Given that I have identical F18s that are the same distance to the MLP, do I just set the gain in the 12 o'clock position and skip gain and level matching?
  • Is the first step to align the subs? I have to figure out how to adjust phase/delay.
  • What distance should I set my subs in my receiver? Is it a two part process where you have to match the phase of one sub to your front speakers at the crossover point and then make sure the two subs are in phase to prevent nulls caused by cancellation?
I still have to finish watching Episode 7 from Home Theater Gurus and there are a couple other YouTube videos I saved to watch later, which should be helpful.

5.2.4 system: Anthem MRX1120 | Revel f226be L/R | c426be center (**ETA for delivery is 7/20**) | f206 surrounds | c763l (Atmos front and back) | dual Rythmik F18 subwoofers | miniDSP 2x4HD | Apple TV 4K | Panasonic UB820 | Sony XBR65x950g (will upgrade to 77" OLED) | Panamax M5400-PM | Salamander Oslo 237 AV cabinet
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