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-   -   Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1214550-official-rythmik-audio-subwoofer-thread.html)

jpmst3 01-07-2010 05:03 PM

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/index.html

There never seems to be an 'Official' Rythmik thread so....

Hopefully members can post here and representatives from Rythmik (Brian) can more readily answer questions that are normally strewn about in many threads.

Rythmik now offers complete subwoofers as well as the traditional kits.

Maybe Brian will subscribe.

jpmst3 01-07-2010 05:05 PM

In case anyone hasn't noticed, Rythmik is planning on offering 500w and 600w amps in the future.

At this point it looks like they are not available in servo form.

Hopefully, they will at some point and perhaps this is a migration towards some higher SPL models from Rythmik.

Perhaps Brian can comment on future plans.

NapalmV5 01-08-2010 08:03 AM

i sure love my d15se i got 6 months ago

love it so much.. soon ill be upgrading my current 2x front subs to 2x f15se

d15se will stay behind the sofa (shakin+bakin)

the 3x rythmik subs will be accompanied by 5x yamaha msr250 as mains

signals: sound card: modded ht omega halo xt/lt1028 opamps

rolandtk 01-08-2010 09:51 AM

Brian,
any plans for an 18"? Still loving my 15 w/PEQ (the first PEQ you sold!)

NapalmV5 01-08-2010 11:11 AM

id be more interested in rythmik mains/towers for clean/tight/accurate full range

sealed/servo/active mains lol how about it brian ??

karlsaudio 01-08-2010 11:44 AM

I can't wait to get a F12!

Iain- 01-08-2010 12:32 PM

Seriously considering importing F12G.

Even moreso now with newly released 370PEQ amplifiers.

jvgillow 01-08-2010 03:29 PM

Does anyone have first-hand photos of the F15SE yet? I'd really like to see one with a size reference item like a DVD case sitting next to it.

cschang 01-08-2010 03:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvgillow View Post

Does anyone have first-hand photos of the F15SE yet? I'd really like to see one with a size reference item like a DVD case sitting next to it.

Jeremy...the SE is just a piano gloss version of the F15. I can put a CD case up against my F15 and take a picture if you would like.

sureshpc 01-08-2010 04:22 PM

Just ordered a rythmik F15 from ascend audio yesterday, and they shipped it today. Thats fast shipping.

Three more days to awesome bass.

jpmst3 01-08-2010 04:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sureshpc View Post

Just ordered a rythmik F15 from ascend audio yesterday, and they shipped it today. Thats fast shipping.

Three more days to awesome bass.

Congrats on your purchase!

Rythmik 01-08-2010 06:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmV5 View Post

id be more interested in rythmik mains/towers for clean/tight/accurate full range

sealed/servo/active mains lol how about it brian ??

Well, I did have a project like that. The idea is to extend the servo operation to midrange driver while keeping the tweeter nonservo. I have done everything I could to reduce the voice coil inductance, including an alumimun phase plug which may turn out to be a bad idea. Just demonstrated the system at Danny's house (GR Research) before holiday. Since the midrange can also be used as nonservo, I have design a passive xover for the midrange drivers so that they have the same response as in servo mode. This makes the comparison of servo vs nonservo easier. To make the long story short, I do think the improvement on dynamics such as drums is very audible. However, there are some resonances above 500hz that keeps them from being perfectly flat and Danny can easily point them out even before we proceeded to measurement. It is a type of parasitic resonances that servo cannot correct. Because those resonances showed up only after I put them in enclosures, I do suspect it arises from enclosure's air spring and the air gap between phase plug and voice coil. In short, the box is technically not sealed at all. I will try out different enclosure type such as TL or vented box so those 5-1/4 midrange driver can play into 50hz/40hz without a sub. While it may not play very low, it does make the assessment of merits easier.

Rythmik 01-08-2010 06:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

In case anyone hasn't noticed, Rythmik is planning on offering 500w and 600w amps in the future.

At this point it looks like they are not available in servo form.

Hopefully, they will at some point and perhaps this is a migration towards some higher SPL models from Rythmik.

Perhaps Brian can comment on future plans.

First, thanks for starting this thread. I will try to answer questions in a timely manner. If not, a reminder to my email will help.

All of our amps can be configured as servo. I am waiting for a new 15" driver that goes with H600 amp. H500 will be used for an upcoming vented sub. That may explain why they appear to be only for nonservo.

As for question about 18" driver, I have to say I don't have plan for that. But I do plan to offer dual 15" configuration. Two of them will be driven by an H600 amp. The only downside is enclosure size.

rick240 01-08-2010 07:20 PM

Hey Brian,

I've been really enjoying my F12.

Have you ever thought of going the other size direction and building a F10 for those with sub size constraints?

jpmst3 01-08-2010 08:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

First, thanks for starting this thread. I will try to answer questions in a timely manner. If not, a reminder to my email will help.

All of our amps can be configured as servo. I am waiting for a new 15" driver that goes with H600 amp. H500 will be used for an upcoming vented sub. That may explain why they appear to be only for nonservo.

As for question about 18" driver, I have to say I don't have plan for that. But I do plan to offer dual 15" configuration. Two of them will be driven by an H600 amp. The only downside is enclosure size.

Hey Brian,

No problem! I thought your caliber of products and support here warranted an Official thread.

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions here.

The thought of a dual 15" is definitely intriguing for those that need more SPL for various applications. Thanks for clearing up the servo/non-servo new amp confusion too. That is exciting news!
Keep up the great work!

NapalmV5 01-08-2010 09:12 PM

^ personally im not getting 2x more 15" rythmik subs for higher spl.. 1x d15se is more than enough.. im getting 2x more for extra potent rumble/tremor/eathquake @ low spl


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

Well, I did have a project like that. The idea is to extend the servo operation to midrange driver while keeping the tweeter nonservo. I have done everything I could to reduce the voice coil inductance, including an alumimun phase plug which may turn out to be a bad idea. Just demonstrated the system at Danny's house (GR Research) before holiday. Since the midrange can also be used as nonservo, I have design a passive xover for the midrange drivers so that they have the same response as in servo mode. This makes the comparison of servo vs nonservo easier. To make the long story short, I do think the improvement on dynamics such as drums is very audible. However, there are some resonances above 500hz that keeps them from being perfectly flat and Danny can easily point them out even before we proceeded to measurement. It is a type of parasitic resonances that servo cannot correct. Because those resonances showed up only after I put them in enclosures, I do suspect it arises from enclosure's air spring and the air gap between phase plug and voice coil. In short, the box is technically not sealed at all. I will try out different enclosure type such as TL or vented box so those 5-1/4 midrange driver can play into 50hz/40hz without a sub. While it may not play very low, it does make the assessment of merits easier.

awesome!!

but even with those resonances it probably sounds better than a lot of the loudspeakers out there

how about a vaccum sealed enclosure ?? without imploding lol

how about full range servo driver instead ?? bigger enclosure probably ?

i dont care/mind how big the enclosure needs to get to minimize those parasitic resonances.. make it as big you have to

is this the plan for 2010/release loudspeakers sometime this year ? cause i could wait on the mains upgrade..

thanks brian!

monomer 01-08-2010 09:28 PM

How many of you have played with the bass extension controls (amp tuning)? Or is everybody just stuck on 14Hz and Hi damping?

For my set up music sounds best there, however I find a bit more bass "kick" for movies with the damping on Low (however it feels just a little too flabby with music). What's been your experiences?
Because of the location of my subs, it would have been nice to have it on remote control though. Hey Brian, ever consider doing this?

karlsaudio 01-08-2010 10:17 PM

Dual 15s! Come to papa!

ryneex 01-08-2010 11:14 PM

I would really be interested in a something small. Maybe an f10? Is there any future plans for that?

Rythmik 01-09-2010 12:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryneex View Post

I would really be interested in a something small. Maybe an f10? Is there any future plans for that?

10" is not very effective as a subwoofer playing signals below 100hz. If one wants a smaller enclosure and can accept slightly lower SPL output, I think a solution with a GR SW12-4 driver in a 1cu ft net volume enclosure, driven by a smaller 300WRMS amp may just work. I have to build one and hear it though. I used to have DS12CV drivers that can be used the same way. However, the demand was not as high and after me and Danny came out with SW12-4, there is no point of having two drivers competing in the same space. So for now, for compact enclosure, I would recommend GR SW12-4 drivers.

The next reasonable size down for me is actually 8" with full servo control below 200hz. There are some good transducers out there (coaxial, ribbon, to name a few) that can benefit from this type of extended bass units.

rick240 01-09-2010 06:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

The next reasonable size down for me is actually 8" with full servo control below 200hz. There are some good transducers out there (coaxial, ribbon, to name a few) that can benefit from this type of extended bass units.

Are you saying that a well designed 8" would be a better than a 10"

neekos 01-09-2010 10:39 AM

2 Attachment(s)
On the F15 with the A300 amp, is it still a Direct Servo amp? Also, does the A300 say Direct Servo on the amp plate?

neekos 01-09-2010 10:44 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I just got an email from Brian. It is and it does.

Thank you Brian.

neekos 01-09-2010 04:07 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Anyone own an F12 or F15 with the A300 amp ? If so, what are your impressions.

Thanks

Rythmik 01-09-2010 04:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

Are you saying that a well designed 8" would be a better than a 10"

That is not what I meant. What I meant was if smaller enclosure is desirable, one may use a smaller enclosure with 12" driver and in terms of output, it would be similar to a well designed 10" in the same enclosure size. 10" driver has a smaller cone area and therefore can move the cone easier (air spring force is smaller). Since output is a product of cone area and excursion, the output comes out to be similar between 10" and 12". However, if the goal is to extend the upper end extension limit, 10" driver is only an incremental improvement over 12" and an 8" driver is more promising. Anyway, I understand the need for 10" drivers. I would

I am also looking for a good caned transducer solution for frequencies above 200hz. Let me know if anyone finds one. The three 8" drivers can be easily put into a 28" stand height enclosures and crossover at 200hz.

Rythmik 01-09-2010 04:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Because of the location of my subs, it would have been nice to have it on remote control though. Hey Brian, ever consider doing this?

Several customers asked. I have thought about that. It would be nice if we can have a display in the front plus a remote control. But I need help on that. Anyone good at writing PIC microcode shoots me an email.

rick240 01-09-2010 05:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

However, if the goal is to extend the upper end extension limit, 10" driver is only an incremental improvement over 12" and an 8" driver is more promising. Anyway, I understand the need for 10" drivers.

For me at least, the goal is best possible under 100Hz musical bass in the smallest possible enclosure; so if I understand than a 10" driver in a 12" cube (like the new Emotiva Ultra10) would likely be better than an 8" driver in the same size box. Would adding a 8" passive radiator (like the Mosscade Titan 5.5) make a big difference, or a second 8" driver (like the Aperion Bravus 8D)?

It is this truly small but musical sub area that I wondered if you had ever considered entering.

I understand that there is only so much time and energy, so a dual-15 would be a more natural extension of your products; just wondering (and continuing to enjoy my F12 in my other space)...

jpmst3 01-09-2010 07:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

It would be nice if we can have a display in the front plus a remote control. But I need help on that. Anyone good at writing PIC microcode shoots me an email.

That would be sweet.

Brian, what about a 15" dual PR setup that would give that great <15 Hz output for HT?

Yellowhammer 01-10-2010 07:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by neekos View Post

Anyone own an F12 or F15 with the A300 amp ? If so, what are your impressions.

Thanks

I have the F12G (the GR research paper cone driver) with the A300 amp. My receiver has Audyssey MultEQ and I didn't have any major peaks or valleys that would require a secondary EQ, so I passed on the A370. The A300 has been great for me. I am thrilled with it. I purchased the configuration with the paper cone driver because I needed a slightly higher crossover point (I have smaller Energy mains). It blends seamlessly with no localization. Bass is very tight as you might expect and goes plenty low. I made the purchase based more on my musical preferences, but trust me it has plenty of SPL ability for home theater in my room (about 3500 cubic feet). Lots of impact but with superior sound quality. It truly is a wonderfully musical subwoofer. If you have a capable receiver and don't need the PEQ, I would opt for the A300 and save the money. I couldn't be happier with mine.

NapalmV5 01-10-2010 07:51 AM

brian

im looking/thinking of diff setups.. if i would start from 0/scratch id just go with 2x f15se in front left/right corners and it would be easier to stack 2x more f15se down the road but since i got d15se (18" by 18") how about stacking f12se (15-3/4" x 17") on top of d15se ? and that would be 2x d15se front left/right corners + f12se stacked on top of each d15se

would you recommend this combo/setup ?

i would rather stack f15se on top of d15se if measurements would fit

kevinzoe 01-10-2010 10:50 AM

Is anyone using multiple subs that they've connected using the balanced XLR inputs/outputs via the "Source In" and "Slave In" plate amp connections?

After reading Dr Floyd Toole's latest book I'm sold on the idea that 4 subs is the way to go for best small room bass. Given the length of cable runs it's likely XLR would be better than RCA and I'm planning on putting a professional studio analogue Parametric EQ upstream of the 4 subs to attenuate bass mode peaks with 5 seperate EQ's per channel.

My understanding is that in using the Source In/Slave In that the source's sub volume control also controls the slave's volume, which may not be a good idea if the two rear subs are closer to the listening position than the front 2 subs. . .

Finally, how does one set up 4 subs -> do you set up all 4 at the same volume relative to the listening chair and then match the main's volume dB to the sub's volume dB?

karlsaudio 01-10-2010 04:03 PM

4 subs? Jesus!

jpmst3 01-10-2010 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post

4 subs? Jesus!

My kind of room!

Too much is never enough.

karlsaudio 01-10-2010 04:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

My kind of room!

Too much is never enough.

Is too much just right?

jpmst3 01-10-2010 05:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post

Is too much just right?

I guess you could say that.

jchong 01-10-2010 08:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

How many of you have played with the bass extension controls (amp tuning)? Or is everybody just stuck on 14Hz and Hi damping?

For my set up music sounds best there, however I find a bit more bass "kick" for movies with the damping on Low (however it feels just a little too flabby with music). What's been your experiences?

I've tried 14Hz with Hi, Med and Low damping. Didn't like "Low" due to being too flabby as you said. I'm running "Hi" for music and "Med" for movies.

I also tried 20Hz, but I felt that 14Hz gave me a marginally better feel.

Rythmik 01-12-2010 05:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinzoe View Post

My understanding is that in using the Source In/Slave In that the source's sub volume control also controls the slave's volume, which may not be a good idea if the two rear subs are closer to the listening position than the front 2 subs. . .

On the other hand, when the volume are set the same for all units, all subs will max out at the same point. Otherwise, you may have some units working harder than others and they becomes the bottleneck.

When using master/slave configuration, the slave unit follows the master except the phase control. That means each slave unit can have a different delay respect to master unit. Keep in mind we can only add delay on the plate amp and AVR can add and subtract a common delay to all units. There is a bit of planing here in terms of delay.

unclepauly 01-12-2010 09:27 AM

OK right now I'm upgrading to an MFW-15 from a Bic H-100, would a rhythmic be the next logical step forward from the MFW-15? Considering I'm looking for detail and musicality?

rolandtk 01-12-2010 09:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclepauly View Post

OK right now I'm upgrading to an MFW-15 from a Bic H-100, would a rhythmic be the next logical step forward from the MFW-15? Considering I'm looking for detail and musicality?

Yes, absolutely. my 15 is a perfect match for my maggie 1.6..

laulau 01-12-2010 08:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

How many of you have played with the bass extension controls (amp tuning)? Or is everybody just stuck on 14Hz and Hi damping?

For my set up music sounds best there, however I find a bit more bass "kick" for movies with the damping on Low (however it feels just a little too flabby with music). What's been your experiences?
Because of the location of my subs, it would have been nice to have it on remote control though. Hey Brian, ever consider doing this?

For most music and all movies I leave mine set at 14Hz/High. On some poorly recorded (IMO) music, I'll flip the switch to either 20Hz or 28Hz, but in all cases I use high damping. Just love the tightness the high setting provides.

Audiojan 01-12-2010 10:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandtk View Post

Yes, absolutely. my 15 is a perfect match for my maggie 1.6..

Finally, someone with a Rhytmik and Maggies! I've been looking to get a new sub (or two) for my Maggie HT and so far, I haven't heard anyone actually using a Rhythmik with maggies (although a lot of people say they think it should work perfect...).

Other options I've looked at would be JL F113 (expensive, which would mean one sub), ML Descent (would be used to get the price I need), Velodyne DD15 (again, expensive, even used). Last option, which I've been looking at would be Rhythmik, but without really knowing if they would work or not, I felt a bit reluctant to take the plunge.

rolandtk 01-13-2010 05:59 AM

Brian,
Any thoughts on the "wave" of THT builds lately?? Any thoughts on implementing one with your subs?
Roland

tegage 01-13-2010 12:42 PM

I'm updating my home theater and I think I will go with a Rythmik sub. While my movie/music ratio is about 70/30, I place more value on the music. Given this, I thought the 12" might be the best option, but the Rythmik web site states that both do equally well for sound.

My home theater is 27' long, and 17' wide at one part and 12' ft wide at another. It is open to my pool table room (i.e., big space)

I plan to start with one (I have an old Velodyne VA-1012 now and it shakes enough for movies, but is lacking for music), but would be willing to add a second if need be.

Opinions on which sub to start with?

Edit: I can order through their web site or Ascend, which seems strange. Any advantage to one over the other?

jvgillow 01-13-2010 12:53 PM

Some models have a quantity discount through rythmik's site but if you are only ordering one of them I think it would be identical.

bearchan 01-13-2010 12:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tegage View Post

I'm updating my home theater and I think I will go with a Rythmik sub. While my movie/music ratio is about 70/30, I place more value on the music. Given this, I thought the 12" might be the best option, but the Rythmik web site states that both do equally well for sound.

My home theater is 27' long, and 17' wide at one part and 12' ft wide at another. It is open to my pool table room (i.e., big space)

I plan to start with one (I have an old Velodyne VA-1012 now and it shakes enough for movies, but is lacking for music), but would be willing to add a second if need be.

Opinions?

Edit: I can order through their web site or Ascend, which seems strange. Any advantage to one over the other?

With a room that size, I would look at the 15.

If you live in Ca or Tx, there may be state tax involved. If you live outside of both states, I would pick the one that is closest to you, to minimize delivery time.

There may be an financial benefit for Brian if you ordered directly through Rythmik.

sdurani 01-13-2010 01:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

The next reasonable size down for me is actually 8" with full servo control below 200hz. There are some good transducers out there (coaxial, ribbon, to name a few) that can benefit from this type of extended bass units.

Would you ever consider something along the lines of the Velo 1812, where you use a larger driver (12 or 15) for the lower frequencies and a smaller driver (8) for the midbass?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

I do plan to offer dual 15" configuration. Two of them will be driven by an H600 amp. The only downside is enclosure size.

Roughly how big an enclosure did you mean? Also, any idea when these (dual-15, H600) will be available; even a ballpark timeline?

Thanx,

monomer 01-13-2010 02:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

...where you use a larger driver (12 or 15) for the lower frequencies and a smaller driver (8) for the midbass?...

Fantastic idea.... If he could get this concept to work, I'd definitely be a player on a couple of these ...I eagerly await Brian's response.

monomer 01-13-2010 02:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tegage View Post

...Opinions on which sub to start with?

Edit: I can order through their web site or Ascend, which seems strange. Any advantage to one over the other?

For your room size, I'd say look at a 15" and you can add another one later if you feel one's not enough for your space. I don't believe Ascend carries the base 300-watt amp model, so if you decide to go that route, then you might have to go through the Rythmik site. That was my issue, as I would have just as well preferred to get them from Ascend as I believe they may be better set-up to deal with any customer's after-the-sale questions on issues... not that Brian is unresponsive, its just he's really busy and his site lacks a forum. BTW, I personally didn't have a single issue with either of my Rythmiks

monomer 01-13-2010 03:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by laulau View Post

For most music and all movies I leave mine set at 14Hz/High. On some poorly recorded (IMO) music, I'll flip the switch to either 20Hz or 28Hz, but in all cases I use high damping. Just love the tightness the high setting provides.

The thing is you get a big boost starting around 25Hz on up into the mid-bass region by changing the damping to Low... this can be great for certain movie effects but you are right, IF your room is tight (low reverberation time) then it can sound a bit flabby. My room is really tight but with movie sound effects often "tight sound" doesn't really mean a lot... like how meaningful is it to speak of a "tight" plane crash or a "tight" explosion or a "tight" earthquake.

BTW, couldn't help but notice your moniker is "laulau", which has meaning to me so I looked at your location and see you're from Oahu... I was born and raise in Kaneohe in the 50s and 60s (graduated from Castle High in '68)... I've been gone a longtime from the Islands, always get a little twinge of nostalgia when I see something from Hawaii.
Aloha Bra...

tegage 01-13-2010 07:40 PM

Thanks for the replies monomer and bearchan.

My D15SE is ordered!

laulau 01-13-2010 08:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

The thing is you get a big boost starting around 25Hz on up into the mid-bass region by changing the damping to Low... this can be great for certain movie effects but you are right, IF your room is tight (low reverberation time) then it can sound a bit flabby. My room is really tight but with movie sound effects often "tight sound" doesn't really mean a lot... like how meaningful is it to speak of a "tight" plane crash or a "tight" explosion or a "tight" earthquake.

Agreed, "tight" is highly subjective. One of the best things Brian did when he designed these subs is give us the ability to fine tune the sound to our individual tastes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

BTW, couldn't help but notice your moniker is "laulau", which has meaning to me so I looked at your location and see you're from Oahu... I was born and raise in Kaneohe in the 50s and 60s (graduated from Castle High in '68)... I've been gone a longtime from the Islands, always get a little twinge of nostalgia when I see something from Hawaii.
Aloha Bra...

Howzit brah? I've been following your posts for many months and have always respected your calm level headed stance on various topics, even when other posters are behaving like a bunch of preteens. Good to hear your a kama'aina.

Even with all the development that has taken place over the years, there's still no place more beautiful than the windward side. I'm out in central Oahu, but paradise is still paradise.

Rythmik 01-14-2010 07:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandtk View Post

Brian,
Any thoughts on the "wave" of THT builds lately?? Any thoughts on implementing one with your subs?
Roland

I am definitely interested in building one myself and tested it out. I have read a document from Tom on comparing THT to vented subwoofer and he gets about 1.8x less excursion at the excursion peak as compared with a vented sub. At this stage, it is still too early to say anything. But his definitely got my attention.

Rythmik 01-14-2010 07:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvgillow View Post

Some models have a quantity discount through rythmik's site but if you are only ordering one of them I think it would be identical.

Ascend's customers service is also very good. Buying from Ascend can get good support too.

Rythmik 01-14-2010 07:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Fantastic idea.... If he could get this concept to work, I'd definitely be a player on a couple of these ...I eagerly await Brian's response.

It is a worth trying idea. I really love to hear articulate upper bass sound too. That is the next area to tackle from my perspective. The debate is whether to use one big and one small drivers, or to use multiple smaller drivers. As I say, to prove the concept, I need a good speaker, reference level, that can benefit from servo playing up to 200hz. Let me know when you find one.

Rythmik 01-14-2010 07:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Roughly how big an enclosure did you mean? Also, any idea when these (dual-15, H600) will be available; even a ballpark timeline?

Thanx,

The schedule is very uncertain at this moment because the upcoming Chinese new years with 2 weeks break. If I can get them done before the break, these dual drivers would be available by the end of Feb. If not, it would be end of Mar. I recommend 5-6 cu ft enclosure for dual 15" drivers. That is about 2.5 - 3 cu ft per driver.

LoneAspen 01-14-2010 12:35 PM

Hi Rythmik - When you get a minute, could you check your private messages here? I just sent you a message re: needing help choosing one of your subs for my home theater. Thanks!

rafa1552 01-15-2010 12:07 PM

Just placed my order for the F15 in matte black. After MONTHS of research and debate, I finally pulled the trigger. I am happy to be apart of the Rythmik family and looking forward to sharing my impressions.

sdurani 01-15-2010 01:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

The schedule is very uncertain at this moment because the upcoming Chinese new years with 2 weeks break. If I can get them done before the break, these dual drivers would be available by the end of Feb. If not, it would be end of Mar.

That's not so long. I can wait till spring; only couple months away.

adude 01-15-2010 08:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

The schedule is very uncertain at this moment because the upcoming Chinese new years with 2 weeks break. If I can get them done before the break, these dual drivers would be available by the end of Feb. If not, it would be end of Mar. I recommend 5-6 cu ft enclosure for dual 15" drivers. That is about 2.5 - 3 cu ft per driver.

Will the H-600 amp with the dual driver be servo or non-servo model?

Rythmik 01-15-2010 09:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by adude View Post

Will the H-600 amp with the dual driver be servo or non-servo model?

It will be servo. The two drivers in a dual driver servo kit need to place close together.

Rythmik 01-15-2010 09:46 PM

I am going to get port caps to help customers build their vented enclosures. The cap I have found is like the following.





The outer diameter is 5-1/8" (130mm). In the past, I have used aeroports and found them to be difficult to install. The above caps is very easy to install. All one needs is 3 steps recess. The first step is 6mm (1/4"). One can use a 1/4" MDF for that. The second and third step can be done by two MDFs, from which we use as double thickness front baffle. There is plenty area we can apply glue and make sure there is no air leak between cap and enclosure without using any screw. The same cap will also be used as inside flared cap.

As with most flared port caps, these caps need special tube, which has a 1/8" wall and 3' 4" in length. To use with our vented enclosure plan, we will cut them into 17-3/5" length. If any of you can think of any project that may use full 3' 4" length, please let me know so I can get a few of them in that length. I only have 4 days to make decision though. Let me know as soon as possible.

sdurani 01-15-2010 11:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

The two drivers in a dual driver servo kit need to place close together.

If I were to do a bipole sub, with the drivers facing opposite directions, how close should they be to each other? A few inches? Almost touching? Can the be a couple feet apart?

Thanx,

monomer 01-17-2010 08:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by laulau View Post

Agreed, "tight" is highly subjective. One of the best things Brian did when he designed these subs is give us the ability to fine tune the sound to our individual tastes...

Actually he's basically done what HSU and SVS does for their ported subs... Max extension or Max output... appears that is what his bass extension controls do (and more), however it doesn't seem many owners are actually taking advantage of this tune-ablility. And since there are no ports to be opened or plugged, Brian could have actually put this option on a remote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laulau View Post

...Howzit brah? I've been following your posts for many months and have always respected your calm level headed stance on various topics, even when other posters are behaving like a bunch of preteens. Good to hear your a kama'aina.

Even with all the development that has taken place over the years, there's still no place more beautiful than the windward side. I'm out in central Oahu, but paradise is still paradise.

Thanks for the kind words, however I'm not always so level-headed... I've had my share of blow-ups and foot-in-mouth episodes. It usually comes from spending too much time on a single forum and losing perspective... which eventually happens to everyone at some point. If I can see it happening to someone else, I try to say something and then walk away from it...

I grew up back when Kaneohe was really "country" with boardwalks in town and the barber shop had saloon doors and the old Pali road was the only way through the Koolau range and on windy days we couldn't get the car (a Ford Anglia) through the pass to get to townside... today its all different (freeways and tunnels).

Sounds like you live out in the pineapple plantations, stuck between mountain ranges. I've lived in many places since my youth and still haven't found anywhere with the beautiful weather like the Islands... with the wild places like the Islands... and with the beautiful ease of the people like the Islands... yes, it's all paradise.

sureshpc 01-20-2010 11:01 AM

Received my F15 yesterday, watched The Hurt Locker, It was amazing.. Better than SVS PB12-NSD I borrowed from a friend.

Only thing worries me is Audyssey reports subwoofer distance closer than actual. Any one faced this problem ? I manually changed the distance info, but not sure its the right way to go.

tegage 01-20-2010 11:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sureshpc View Post

Received my F15 yesterday, watched The Hurt Locker, It was amazing.. Better than SVS PB12-NSD I borrowed from a friend.

Only thing worries me is Audyssey reports subwoofer distance closer than actual. Any one faced this problem ? I manually changed the distance info, but not sure its the right way to go.

I just got my D15SE, but haven't run Audyssey yet. However, Audyssey reports my Velodyne twice as far away (22 ft, vs 11 ft). I might be wrong, but I think this is Audyssey's way of adjusting the phase.

monomer 01-20-2010 12:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tegage View Post

...Audyssey reports my Velodyne twice as far away (22 ft, vs 11 ft). I might be wrong, but I think this is Audyssey's way of adjusting the phase.

Yes, it is not the physical distance that is being measured but rather the distance in time... phase.

tegage 01-21-2010 09:00 AM

I received my D15SE yesterday.

It is a great looking sub and was packaged very well.

I was getting some buzzing due to a ground loop, but a cheater plug took care of that - it is dead quiet now.

I hooked it up, ran Audyssey (sureshpc - Audyssey place my sub closer, by 6 ft, as well) and listened to some music and watched the latest transformer movie (only recent action movie I have not seen). The sound is very different than what I am used to. My last sub - a 1997 Velodyne VA-1012 was very in-your-face. I knew exactly were it was and I didn't use it for music because it sounds mushy to me. I crossed my fronts (Polk Lsi15s and a CSi40) at 70 Hz even though they can go down lower and listened to music. At first, it was strange because I didn't "hear" the subwoofer, but I know the lower frequencies were there.

I had the same feeling watching the movie. At times I felt like I wasn't getting the same punch, but then the pictures would start to rattle, which didn't happen before. I think this is all good, and is a part of experiencing clean bass.

I have a setup question, however. I understand that when watching a movie than the subwoofer can get information from two sources - the LFE channel and the frequencies stripped off the other speakers - anything below 70 Hz in my case. So what is the frequency range of the LFE channel and where should the LFE LPF be set?

Edit: Any suggestions for a good starting point for the cross-overs for the front speakers (my matching LsiC speaker arrives today)?

monomer 01-21-2010 09:48 AM

LFE channel has a specified cut-off at 120Hz in the standard but in practice it appears very little above 80Hz is ever in the channel... the conventional wisdom says set it to the 120Hz max anyway.

Rythmiks are very articulate and sound tight with music, however movies often have lots of mid-bass effects that you can sense, if that portion of the range is boosted high enough that is... this is not characteristic of a flat response though. You need to first determine the best location for your sub to insure you're not experiencing a null in the mid-bass region, as nulls cannot be compensated for by EQ... even Audyssey can't give you what's missing in a null. So I suggest you try various locations for the sub and evaluate each from your listening position... REW is great for this but you can also just listen to a sweep (10Hz-160Hz) looped to listen for nulls. Once you've eliminated the deepest most serious nulls you can run Audyssey to take care of the peaks, phasing and levels. To exaggerate the mid-bass effects in movies I suggest you experiment with various combinations of the bass extension filter controls (freq and damping). Right now you probably have it set to 14Hz and Hi damping, which for most rooms and set-ups is best for music, however you might find you enjoy movie effects more with less damping and possibly even upping the freq controls... you'll have to experiment a little to find what tickles your fancy.

Always select your cross-over according to where the whole range from an octave above and to an octave below the cross-over sounds smoothest and overall blends best with your mains as heard from the listening position... this will be room specific and speaker placement dependant, it would be a mistake to just blindly go with what works for someone else.

tegage 01-21-2010 11:19 AM

monomer,

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of placement options without a very long rca cable run. Also, the easiest place for the sub has some drawbacks - back against a wall, one side is half-way covered by a wall and the other side faces a speaker and a chair is two feet in front of the sub. I know that down-firing vs side firing isn't suppose to matter much, but it seems like I might loose a lot of sound with the current placement. That said, Audyssey reduced the output by 11.5 dB.

Here is a my current layout in case you would like to comment: Home Theater

monomer 01-21-2010 11:43 AM

Boundaries cause reflections that are so complex it's hard to speculate further than just some generalizations about their effects on a sub's FR performance, so much so that trial-n-error is really the only way to decide on an optimal placement for the sub with respect to a given listening position(s). Sub placement can easily make or break how well a sub will sound in a particular room and set-up. Basically, this is the routine I'd recommend... Run Audyssey to set the levels, then turn off the EQing done by Audyssey or set it to manual and adjust to flat. Next, play a looped sweep 10Hz-160Hz (with the sub running solo) and listen from your favored listening spot(s) and only pay attention to the nulls (you can employ an SPL meter to give you a quantitative visual for verification or simply trusting in your ears can also work well)... Audyssey will attenuate the peaks for you later so don't worry about them at this point. Try this again and again at different sub locations (as many as your layout or the wife will reasonably allow... usually that's only 3 or 4 posibilities for most of us married guys). Then select the position that has the fewest and least serious nulls... under no circumstances should you allow a complete null to exist, you must find a better position for the sub otherwise you will always find it lacking and forever be disappointed... but you cannot blame the sub because its caused merely from poor placement. Remember another alternative is to rearrange the furniture to obtain a different listening position(s)... the nulls will change as this works just like moving the sub. Finally once you've found the spot with the least offensive nulls, THEN run Audyssey again (with all speakers running of course) for phasing and EQing (attenuation of the peaks) and after that it will be sounding the best from your listening position(s) that it can, given your situation. NOW if you want more mid-bass kick for movie effects you can try adjusting the bass extension filter controls to obtain your desired mid-bass boost for the movies.

tegage 01-21-2010 12:14 PM

I do have a SPL meter and I'll check Zune for a sweep pattern (is there another source to download from?).

How careful do I need to be? The Rythmik site talks about a 1/3 duty cycle during break-in.

monomer 01-21-2010 12:40 PM

You will be calibrating at approximately at 75dB or there 'bouts... how hard will that push the sub will depend upon the size and characteristics of your room. I will suggest that if you don't have the sub's gain past 11 o'clock and your AVR ends up at between -5dB and +5dB after Audyssey you should be alright... but really you should probably check with Brian on this first and see what he says. There are a number of places to get free sweeps and tone generators from... I don't really have the time right now to find and post the links but if you do a web search you shouldn't have any problem finding them (I personally haven't used sweeps in a couple of years since I use REW to evaluate FR and more). Later tonight if you haven't been able to locate any sweeps I'll do the leg work and get you a link or two.

jchong 01-22-2010 02:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sureshpc View Post

Only thing worries me is Audyssey reports subwoofer distance closer than actual. Any one faced this problem ? I manually changed the distance info, but not sure its the right way to go.

Same with my F15, Audyssey reports mine about a foot closer than actual.

jchong 01-22-2010 02:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Yes, it is not the physical distance that is being measured but rather the distance in time... phase.

I understand that. Sometimes there are devices in the signal chain which introduce delay (like EQ1, Antimode) or some processing going on which does the same thing. As such, if anything the distance could be further than actual.

But closer than actual? This means the signal is reaching faster (which seems impossible). Indeed I asked this in the Audyssey thread and the replies all indicated that distances closer than actual are an anomaly.

Anyway, in the end I manually set the distance to actual (which is what was recommended in the thread).

tegage 01-22-2010 08:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

You will be calibrating at approximately at 75dB or there 'bouts... how hard will that push the sub will depend upon the size and characteristics of your room. I will suggest that if you don't have the sub's gain past 11 o'clock and your AVR ends up at between -5dB and +5dB after Audyssey you should be alright... but really you should probably check with Brian on this first and see what he says. There are a number of places to get free sweeps and tone generators from... I don't really have the time right now to find and post the links but if you do a web search you shouldn't have any problem finding them (I personally haven't used sweeps in a couple of years since I use REW to evaluate FR and more). Later tonight if you haven't been able to locate any sweeps I'll do the leg work and get you a link or two.

I found a couple of sweeps and will run them over the weekend. I assume one show play them without the other speakers, which would mean playing them in stereo with the right and left speaker disconnected?

monomer 01-22-2010 09:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tegage View Post

...I assume one should play them without the other speakers, which would mean playing them in stereo with the right and left speaker disconnected?

Yes, I believe that is best. My reasoning is that in your search for a best sub position you are evaluating the nulls within the freq range of the sweep and you don't want to confound your results with phasing issues at the cross-over with the mains... since the sub will be moved around this changes phasing and you have no idea what your final cross-over (range) will be. Its best to just hear the sub across its intended range of freqs and evaluate its position based upon the nulls you (don't) hear within that range. THEN later, after you've found that best position for the sub (in relation to your listening position(s)), Audyssey can determine the correct phasing (remember to leave the sub's phase at 0 the whole time) and then you can evaluated various cross-overs freqs by more trial-n-error using the sweep but this time with all the speakers and cross-overs in effect. If you've never done this sort of thing before be prepared for an eye-opener (or should that be an ear-opener?)... you'll be surprised at just how much the volume will change over that freq range, and in some cases you may actually hear the sound completely fade out and disappear then slowly return again (a complete null) as the sweep goes through the frequencies. I did this for the first time about 9 years ago and ever since then have been a big believer in careful sub/listener placements and employing acoustical room treatments... of course Audyssey (and the like) have made the job lots easier. Good luck this weekend! have fun!

elockett 01-22-2010 02:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclepauly View Post

OK right now I'm upgrading to an MFW-15 from a Bic H-100, would a rhythmic be the next logical step forward from the MFW-15? Considering I'm looking for detail and musicality?

I've owned both subs and given your priorities (detail and musicality) I would say yes-A Rhythmik will be a step up from a MFW-15.

Eric

elockett 01-22-2010 02:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandtk View Post

Yes, absolutely. my 15 is a perfect match for my maggie 1.6..

I had this combination last year (pair of D15se) and it was easily one of the best speaker-sub combos I've owned. Audyssey was able to integrate the two pairs flawlessly so they sounded like one full range system.

Eric

Rythmik 01-23-2010 01:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

If I were to do a bipole sub, with the drivers facing opposite directions, how close should they be to each other? A few inches? Almost touching? Can the be a couple feet apart?

Thanx,

You can place them a few inches apart. I recommend against puting them feet apart.

Rythmik 01-23-2010 01:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

I understand that. Sometimes there are devices in the signal chain which introduce delay (like EQ1, Antimode) or some processing going on which does the same thing. As such, if anything the distance could be further than actual.

But closer than actual? This means the signal is reaching faster (which seems impossible). Indeed I asked this in the Audyssey thread and the replies all indicated that distances closer than actual are an anomaly.

Anyway, in the end I manually set the distance to actual (which is what was recommended in the thread).

"Closer than actual" means it will add delay to the signal to compensate for the shorter travel time for shorter distance. That is most likely with very large front speaker such that their phase shift at the xover point is almost zero. Sometimes software does make mistakes. So basic understanding of phase alignment and delay/distance adjustment is very helpful.

Rythmik 01-23-2010 02:16 AM

Most people intuitively think LFE is an independent channel. It is not technically. The best case to explain this is the ending credit sound tracks of Fast and Furious 2. It is so good that I bought a CD sound track and completely disappointed. It simply does not have enough amount of clean bass energy recorded on the CD. It completely makes sense from dynamic range point of view. In CD, there is only 16bit resolution. If that entire resolution is occupied by the slow moving bass signal, there wouldn't be room left for other music signals. Since hearing sensitivity is very low at low bass, that can take away significant dynamic range. So LFE comes into play. Signals below a particular frequency (for instance 120hz) are filtered and put in a single LFE channel. During playback, LFE is actually boosted by 12db (or full 2 bits). In other words, one can imagine the original sound recording is recorded in at least 18bits. Filter out say 120hz and below and the remaining should not exceed 16bit resolution and can be recorded in 16bits for front left and right. The LFE is then reduce by 12db (or reduced by 2 bits) so that it can also be recorded in 16bits. The advantage is when the signal is reconstructed, we want to get the 18bit resolution back with a clear bass reproduction. But literally it is same principle as xover design. it shows the LFE channel should be added back to their original channels. Unfortunately, it is impossible to encode which signal is from which channel in LFE. So most 5.1 decoding method add LFE to both front left and right channels. Then do the filtering again for subwoofer channel output. In order to avoid extra signal leaking from left channel to right and vice versa after decoding, the movie company should keep their "encoding" xover point for LFE as low as possible, such as 80hz. On the other hand the decoding LFE filtering does not make sense at all. The only possible explanation is as a way to prevent digital noise (because LFE has a very low sampling rate) or other artifacts from entering front channels. In short, one should think of 5.1 or 7.1 as an encoding/decoding method, not as formats directly mapped to 6 or 8 physical channels.

Even though the above is based on music signals, it applies to movies too. Special effects such as explosion and gun shot have high frequency components that need to go to front and rear channels. So put LFE back to their original channel to get a full spectrum special effect is very important. As a result, AVR should first add the LFE signal back to front channels and then do a xover (or bass management) to provide one single SUB output.

lewdogg 01-23-2010 07:59 AM

Brian -

You're one crazy-smart guy...I'm glad I was pointed to Rythmik so I could order my F12. Can't wait to hear what everyone's been raving about.

alphaiii 01-23-2010 01:38 PM

Brian,

So what are the chances of an 8" servo sub actually happening? I saw in this thread you basically ruled out any real need in designing a 10."

A "Rythmik F8" is the imaginary subwoofer that my PC music setup is waiting for - a small sealed servo sub that can accurately reproduce the rapid double bass in my music. A guy can dream right...

Rythmik 01-24-2010 03:47 AM

Some rubber surrounds (for instance, DS1200, and older DS12 and DS15) can develop white powder after some time. DS1500 can too, but less frequent. Please do not use solvent-based cleaning solution, such as alcohol to clean it. That would make it worse. The correct way to clean it is use cleaner designed specific for rubbers or tires. Yes, tires. Tires are made from rubber. Please use a small piece of paper towel damped with moderate amount of cleaning liquid and carefully apply it to surround only so that it does not get onto the enclosure part or the metal cone part. Tire cleaner is a bit oily.

Chip E 01-24-2010 04:50 AM

I love the look of the D15SE although, if they were available in something like black stained oak it would work out better for me. I want to use them as end tables with a fabricated flat surface of some sort, on top. HG black isn't the end of the world, they certainly look great. My bigger concern is how these things dig for home theater. Visceral impact is a must. I'm always leery of sealed subs for HT only. The dimensions are perfect for end tables! My room is in a sealed basement. I had an SVS PB2+ for years. Subless at the moment. I'd like to hear some comments from D15SE owners on how well this sub performs in low extension. Thanks.

Rythmik 01-24-2010 04:58 AM

1) shipping delay:
I have to apologize for the customers whose sub delivery got delayed this week. I was trying to finish a few tasks so that my suppliers can get them done before their upcoming 2 weeks break starting Feb 7th. If I missed the deadline, the whole shipment will be delay by at least 2 weeks and more likely 3 weeks.

2) availability
In terms of enclosure availability, I am basically out of enclosures and drivers to build F12 subwoofers. Both of them will be available in 6 weeks. Also I am out of black oak F15 enclosures. Black matte F15's are available.

3) custom veneer option
If anyone would like to get custom wood veneer, it is possible to strip off existing veneer of F12 and F15 and put on custom wood veneer. I have a guy in Austin (Hank is his first name) that can do custom wood veneer. Currently we have F12 and F15 enclosure available for that. The final cost with custom wood veneer is about $150 more expensive (varied by wood selection) than a standard veneer enclosure. That brings it to the same ballpark as "SE" finish.

4) price adjustment
F12SE and F15SE will be priced $150 more than their regular veneer counterpart to better reflect their true cost. So F12SE will be $949 starting with new shipment next month and F15SE is already priced as $1049.

D.Rowe 01-24-2010 05:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip E View Post

I love the look of the D15SE although, if they were available in something like black stained oak it would work out better for me. I want to use them as end tables with a fabricated flat surface of some sort, on top. HG black isn't the end of the world, they certainly look great. My bigger concern is how these things dig for home theater. Visceral impact is a must. I'm always leery of sealed subs for HT only. The dimensions are perfect for end tables! My room is in a sealed basement. I had an SVS PB2+ for years. Subless at the moment. I'd like to hear some comments from D15SE owners on how well this sub performs in low extension. Thanks.

I have same question...it would be great to hear from some D15SE owner's who use it for HT more.

Dave

tegage 01-24-2010 07:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Yes, I believe that is best. My reasoning is that in your search for a best sub position you are evaluating the nulls within the freq range of the sweep and you don't want to confound your results with phasing issues at the cross-over with the mains... since the sub will be moved around this changes phasing and you have no idea what your final cross-over (range) will be. Its best to just hear the sub across its intended range of freqs and evaluate its position based upon the nulls you (don't) hear within that range. THEN later, after you've found that best position for the sub (in relation to your listening position(s)), Audyssey can determine the correct phasing (remember to leave the sub's phase at 0 the whole time) and then you can evaluated various cross-overs freqs by more trial-n-error using the sweep but this time with all the speakers and cross-overs in effect. If you've never done this sort of thing before be prepared for an eye-opener (or should that be an ear-opener?)... you'll be surprised at just how much the volume will change over that freq range, and in some cases you may actually hear the sound completely fade out and disappear then slowly return again (a complete null) as the sweep goes through the frequencies. I did this for the first time about 9 years ago and ever since then have been a big believer in careful sub/listener placements and employing acoustical room treatments... of course Audyssey (and the like) have made the job lots easier. Good luck this weekend! have fun!

I found the following sweep in wav format: 20, 25, 31.5, 40, 50, 63, 80, 100, 125 Hz.

I ripped them with Zune and downloaded to my Zune HD. When I first ran them, I had a significant drop at 50 Hz, but them I realized that I had my Polk Lsi15's running. I unplugged those and the drop mostly went away. So I went in the receiver's setup (Onkyo 807) and upped the cross-over to 80 Hz (although the LSi's do a good job of mid-bass). Unfortunately, that didn't keep the Lsi's from playing lower that 80Hz - it seemed to raise the HPF, but not to 80Hz. I'll play some more today, but right now I am low at 20Hz and pretty flat from 25 Hz up to around 60Hz.

tegage 01-24-2010 08:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Rowe View Post

I have same question...it would be great to hear from some D15SE owner's who use it for HT more.

Dave

I just got my D15SE, but am still setting it up so it is too early to comment. I will say that it is a good looking sub, was packaged very well such that it arrived without a scratch.

rick240 01-24-2010 08:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Brian,

So what are the chances of an 8" servo sub actually happening? I saw in this thread you basically ruled out any real need in designing a 10."

A "Rythmik F8" is the imaginary subwoofer that my PC music setup is waiting for - a small sealed servo sub that can accurately reproduce the rapid double bass in my music. A guy can dream right...

Yeah, it's too bad the smallest is 12" (which I have and love in my HT/5.1 music zone).

I think a F10SE would find itself in many living room 2.1 systems (I'd buy one today, heck I'd pre-order one today if Brian said "sure, I'll start the design today"),

and a F8 in veneer would be the MOST popular sub for office 2.1 systems (I'd buy one of these today too).

monomer 01-24-2010 10:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tegage View Post

I found the following sweep in wav format: 20, 25, 31.5, 40, 50, 63, 80, 100, 125 Hz.

I ripped them with Zune and downloaded to my Zune HD. When I first ran them, I had a significant drop at 50 Hz, but them I realized that I had my Polk Lsi15's running. I unplugged those and the drop mostly went away. So I went in the receiver's setup (Onkyo 807) and upped the cross-over to 80 Hz (although the LSi's do a good job of mid-bass). Unfortunately, that didn't keep the Lsi's from playing lower that 80Hz - it seemed to raise the HPF, but not to 80Hz. I'll play some more today, but right now I am low at 20Hz and pretty flat from 25 Hz up to around 60Hz.

I suggest in addition to single freq tones you also try an actual sweep so you get an idea of the broadness (or narrow) of the nulls you are hearing. You can go here and download an MP3 file of a slow 10-200Hz sweep from Bass Mekanik for $.89 (its #109 on my screen listing)... or you go here and install SigJenny (a freeware signal generator) and play and create your sweep wav files. Was that 50Hz drop interaction between your mains and the sub or just your mains (between each other)? Try only the mains by themselves to determine if it is due to placement of the mains. Also was this 50Hz drop after you ran Audyssey (proper phasing between sub and mains were set)? Its important to remember that a cross-over is not a "brick-wall" but only identifies the mid (50/50) cross-over point. Your mains will still have a significant effect (albeit decreasing) down to an octave below the cross-over, just as the sub will have an effect (also decreasing in significance) to around an octave above the cross-over. If you set you crossover to 80Hz then the region of cross-over is ~40-160Hz. Have you tried the sub in another location yet?

enricoclaudio 01-24-2010 12:16 PM

Hi Brian, I live in Houston. It is possible to pick up a pair of D15SE subwoofers directly in to your workshop?

Thanks

lewdogg 01-24-2010 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

1) shipping delay:
I have to apologize for the customers whose sub delivery got delayed this week. I was trying to finish a few tasks so that my suppliers can get them done before their upcoming 2 weeks break starting Feb 7th. If I missed the deadline, the whole shipment will be delay by at least 2 weeks and more likely 3 weeks.

2) availability
In terms of enclosure availability, I am basically out of enclosures and drivers to build F12 subwoofers. Both of them will be available in 6 weeks. Also I am out of black oak F15 enclosures. Black matte F15's are available.

Is this common with all online subwoofer manufacturers? It seems Rythmik, SVS, Epik, and eD are all backordered for many of their subwoofers. Is last year's inventory about gone so most places are out of stock?

monomer 01-24-2010 12:32 PM

My guess is that when you are small and have to use your own money up-front to purchase components in batches large enough to warrant a pricing break (a long enough production run to make it worthwhile for the supplier to tool up) you are guessing at what is going to be in demand in the coming months and if your guess was a little off, you will sell out of one thing before having sold many of the other things to make back enough money to quickly place another large order with your suppliers... so there are delays. Plus, I would assume one would like to reduce their stock down by year's end to make doing taxes and inventorying easier. But hey, this is all just pure guessing on my part... maybe its as simple as everyone got an ID sub or two for Christmas. Anyway, just thought I'd spend some time here speculating as long as you are waiting on a more accurate response from Brian.

lewdogg 01-24-2010 01:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

My guess is that when you are small and have to use your own money up-front to purchase components in batches large enough to warrant a pricing break (a long enough production run to make it worthwhile for the supplier to tool up) you are guessing at what is going to be in demand in the coming months and if your guess was a little off, you will sell out of one thing before having sold many of the other things to make back enough money to quickly place another large order with your suppliers... so there are delays. Plus, I would assume one would like to reduce their stock down by year's end to make doing taxes and inventorying easier. But hey, this is all just pure guessing on my part... maybe its as simple as everyone got an ID sub or two for Christmas. Anyway, just thought I'd spend some time here speculating as long as you are waiting on a more accurate response from Brian.

Was my assumption as well...just thought it was odd that it seems to be the same for many others, not just Rythmik. Not being in the market for a sub until now, I wasn't sure if this was common-knowledge at this time of the year or if it was something else.

Thanks for your help.

Rythmik 01-24-2010 04:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

My guess is that when you are small and have to use your own money up-front to purchase components in batches large enough to warrant a pricing break (a long enough production run to make it worthwhile for the supplier to tool up) you are guessing at what is going to be in demand in the coming months and if your guess was a little off, you will sell out of one thing before having sold many of the other things to make back enough money to quickly place another large order with your suppliers... so there are delays. Plus, I would assume one would like to reduce their stock down by year's end to make doing taxes and inventorying easier. But hey, this is all just pure guessing on my part... maybe its as simple as everyone got an ID sub or two for Christmas. Anyway, just thought I'd spend some time here speculating as long as you are waiting on a more accurate response from Brian.

I have to say we are all at the hands of this unpredictable economy that some months are slow and some months are better. In our case, it is a planning error and bad habit of perfectionist. I learnt a lesson from it and I will do better next time. Don't read too much into it.

sdurani 01-24-2010 05:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

You can place them a few inches apart. I recommend against puting them feet apart.

Well, there goes my Rythmik coffee table idea. Time to come up with a plan B.

tegage 01-25-2010 07:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Was that 50Hz drop interaction between your mains and the sub or just your mains (between each other)?

I'm not sure since I did not run the sweeps with just the mains. I will do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

was this 50Hz drop after you ran Audyssey (proper phasing between sub and mains were set)?

Yes, I had run Audyssey

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

Its important to remember that a cross-over is not a "brick-wall" but only identifies the mid (50/50) cross-over point. Your mains will still have a significant effect (albeit decreasing) down to an octave below the cross-over, just as the sub will have an effect (also decreasing in significance) to around an octave above the cross-over. If you set you crossover to 80Hz then the region of cross-over is ~40-160Hz. Have you tried the sub in another location yet?

I figured that was likely the case. I've been using a SPL meter for years to set speaker levels, but I've never run sweep before so this has been a learning experience for me. I am making progress, however, and the sound has noticeably improved.

I did try a second location, but got similar results. I'll have to make/buy a long sub cable before I can try more locations.

Also, I think I'll run Audyssey once more and take some measurements since I am not sure that I hadn't adjusted the cross-overs subsequent to the last run.

FlavioSupra 01-28-2010 03:12 PM

I am contemplating replacing my dual SVS PB13-Ultra subs with dual Rythmik D15SE subs because I need some more floor space and my wife thinks the SVS boxes (as she calls them) are ugly. The D15SE has a much smaller footprint then the PB13-Ultra (in rosenut) and the gloss black will match better with the Mythos speakers.

How much output will I lose at the bottom end?
My room is appr. 8000 cu.ft.
My main speakers are Def Tech Mythos ST playing as full range speakers.
For movies I always listen at reference level and when I listen to music I also like to play it loud.

lewdogg 01-28-2010 06:12 PM

Anyone have a clue when the new series of amps will be released?


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